Freeman Dyson - Does a Fine-Tuned Universe Lead to God? 

My notes... The fine-tuned Universe and God are intertwined. The present moment and participant (our participation) are inseparable. The observed and the observer are inseparable. Who is God? God encompasses all beings and everything, (it is you, me, us, everything). The meaning of the phrase 'I Am that I Am'. 'I Am' the one who is doing, dreaming and playing all of these. (the goal is to realize that we are part of a harmonious/holistic system of existence, and we/i/you are that) (understanding pain, suffering, obstacles, and challenges is essential because they are integral parts of existence. Just as we cannot appreciate light without darkness, we cannot grasp true enlightenment without acknowledging and embracing both aspects) Even there is a universe that is not finely-tuned, there is still God. However, God cannot participate/cannot manifest as physical or life forms because the universe lacks the refinement necessary for such processes. In this scenario, God can only observe from afar, beyond the imperfect universe. The not finely-tuned universe appears only as imagination, information, data, visualization, or as one of many possibilities, a tool for observation, a tool for awareness and cannot directly experience it due to the universe's lack of refinement to create physical manifestations or vessels. (the brain is merely a vessel to put the mind, and the mind to recieves the information, I am saying that the brain is simply a receiver, a tool, and an expression of the Divine/God/Logos/Word/Pure Consciousness. Or, should I say, 'the Word became a flesh') (we can describe the universe, which is not finely-tuned, as dormant or dead, serving merely as a tool for observing the countless possibilities it presents as information or data) If you seek to understand the Highest God. The Highest God is a whole and complete, limitless and eternal that is the Pure Consciousness the source and background of all possibilities, the one that hold and make a solid foundation of all possibilities/creations. 'We are not human beings having a spiritual experience; we are spiritual being (we are Pure Awareness of the Pure Consciousness) having a human experience.' Note: Pure Awareness can be interpreted as the Holy Spirit or Finely-Tuned Aligned Information, which serves as the solid foundation for the existence and appearance of physical reality, encompassing the laws, principles, and order of things. Note: if we don't understand each other, there may be a language barrier hindering the delivery of our message. However, I believe that the most effective way to convey our thoughts is through a philosophical approach. Philosophy transcends linguistic, religious, spiritual, scientific, psychological, etc boundaries, making it compatible with various styles of communication. Note: Incomplete and Experimental _________ Spirituality is for internal (inner) development and growth, while science is for external development and growth. In spirituality, you don't have to be religious; all you need to do is "Know Yourself". By knowing/understanding yourself, you will also comprehend the Universe and the concept of God. In science, if you disregard spirituality, you can't gain new insights or create and develop what we call science, technologies, medicines, etc. It comes from within before it becomes science; it stems from the mystics of the past, whom we now refer to in this generation as metahumans.

This channel is creating an invaluable archive of profound but accessible discussions with the most interesting people, including the interviewer himself.

Perhaps the most balanced agnostic POV on the topic I have seen on this channel to date. Excellent.

I often think about this subject and my idea is this. Life is very abundant in the universe and possibly even the multiverse but conditions are not about us as life just forms by chance and life adjusts to the conditions it’s found in.

Douglas Adams had a wonderful story about the puddle who found himself in a pothole, and the puddle was sure the hole had been made to perfectly fit him.

This discussion seems to make an unimaginative assumption that only the type of life may be possible is what we know. If the properties of universe were different a different type of (what we would call) life could have come about.

Dyson is a treasure -- a brilliant yet humble scientist and thinker.

The true nature of consciousness is the key to the question regarding the fine tuning of the universe. Since we are all conscious, the best way to know the nature of consciousness would be perhaps through meditation which allows us the opportunity to focus our attention on the functioning of pure consiousness within the mind. Due time this would fortify our awareness of the fact that we are all pure consciousness.

Great discussion. Physics can only explain one physical state in terms of other physical states. It cannot explain the arising of the initial physical state (hence, all physical states). Which is why the fine-tuning argument for a Creator has to be coupled with the argument from cause: the universe is not only improbably structured, it began. The alternative, to be sure, remains the various multiverse hypotheses. Which are unobservable, as Dyson says.

I'm always facinated by hearing brilliant people twist themselves into knots to avoid acknowledging the odds of such fine-tuning to have occurred in a natural manner.

Where there are laws there is a law giver. Also materialists posit one dimension only with everything arising from it. As we approach a quantum age from an atomic age we can think and see more broadly. The likelihood that there are three dimensions; Consciousness; Mind; Elements, is increasing becoming more plausible and even more realistic.

Nature, God, The Universe exists regardless of whether we believe it exists or not. How it works may never be completely or fully known or understood but we should keep trying through Science to get to the truth.

If there is an infinite number of universes, it’s funny the kind of assumptions that are made about them; that any are tuned for life aside from ours, that other versions of ourselves exist in them (which is a logical absurdity), or that beings much more God like wouldn’t, or that flying spaghetti monsters and pink unicorns and fairies and such might not. All this to say, there is that which essentially is. The question is what is the nature of it?

It leads to love.

I don't think I will ever understand the notion of "accident". Isn't every accident the product of another accident? Is there an Accident Prime from which all accidents originate? The Big Oops?

I am afraid the critics tend to be philosophically driven and don't see the argument for what it is. It's rather clear that it points to a designed universe, which doesn't entail a religious God. But you know, even Einstein believed in a creator. Like every other genius, yeah...

Absolutely fascinating. Your posts are always so informative and your probing questions create a wonderful atmosphere for profoundly insightful discussions that make me think about them long afterwards. Every post brings the most brilliant and interesting people in the world into my mind. Thank you.

2:43 or maybe we don"t have access to everything around us because of physical and sensory limitations...

A puddle can take on infinite shapes to fit any type of hole. It is certainly not clear that life itself can take on an infinite number of shapes or forms. It the puddle had been ice “ie only one shape” then if it found itself in a perfectly matched hole then I would say that indeed the hole was made for it. That’s the problem with this analogy.

I like this conversation it's one of scientific discussions that promote truth. Science maybe a great tool but the complexity of the universe is big that it can not have all the answers or to completely crack the cosmos alone. Other human knowledge can also play their part since they've proven valid in their different applications.

How refreshing! To see such an eminent scientist speaking against scientific fudamentalism in such a way. He is willing to openly admit that reductionist science might not be able to explain everything, and that some truths about the universe may only be accessible by other means. It seems to that this discussion cuts to the essence of what this channel is about.

Truly, thank you for these videos.

Please show me the proof that the constants of nature actually can be other than they are. What are the constraints on the possible values of the constants and how do you know what they are?

does it indicate anything that the constants and laws of nature are expressed mathematically? how does mathematics fit into origination / ontology? and why does reality develop in mathematical way?

The thing is what would we consider godly most people don't speak of the fermament or anything to its real nature

Life is Eternal, it has always been in Balance, with It Self. The Eternal Life, is Name-Less in It's own Eternal Nature.

We call it fine tuning, but had something that can ponder the universe it’s in were to manifest in some otherwise tuned universe, it would eventually ask the same question. So there is no logical conclusion. It’s just a paradox. If a tree falls in the woods, etc.

There are different types of creatures that thrive in different biomes, environments, conditions, climates etc. therefore we don't use the same laws of physics/biology/chemistry/etc. Their world is fine tuned for their survival so it's like customized. Science does a good job at answering questions and solving problems but that cannot be said about religion.

How do you prove evil in court ?

What if Copernicus was wrong?

Sanest person ever interviewed by this man on this channel. ❤🙏

Biologists understand Homo sapiens and its foibles. Purposelessness is very important. Buddha doesn’t say “there’s no God “, he says “it’s the wrong question “. The work that has to be done, to clarify and contain, to be ready, does not involve these questions. They should be rejected as they distract from the real work.

I marvel at manufacturing plants that smart people built. Software engineers built amazing apps and now developing AI. Moreso on production lines that create computers from silicon. All these purposeful products and services that are fined-tune to fit their purpose are built by intelligence. If you're just stubborn, you'll argue to no end that something came from nothing. Information is not nothing, and information is only useful to concious beings

Great mind

Outstanding!

Excellent.... thanks 🙏❤.

Where are all those spheres?

God could have made the ratio of e/m of the electron different in the 53,722,976,476,585,344,287,224,314,271,828th significant digit in order to remove childhood cancer.

A fine tuned universe does lead to God's. Elohim. God is just a term used to describe something more superior than us.

Well i have to agree with one point.... Speculation is always just a collection of possiblities. At least until we have persuasive evidence to say otherwise.

Where is everyone ? I’m at the Big Bang.

Does a fine-tuned piano lead to Popeye ?

If Penrose's CCC theory is correct, then it might be intelligence that's doing the fine tuning.

I am always like to learn you both.

To make God personal you must follow God.

Talking of God is difficult in reference to the Bible.

Comment on bringing up children as religious or atheists , SCIENCE comes Naturally to Curious children than "Religion" which is Imposed on them so. Science has proved to have more answers. Religion has brought Wars, Respectfully ❤

God is supposedly unscientific so let’s say we are here because of the multiverse, something impossible to prove or observe, got to love science.

I don’t object to the idea of intelligent design per se. I object to charlatans like William Lane Craig who claim that the scientific evidence strongly leads to the conclusion that intelligent design is the most probable cause.

After trillions times trillions of universes, ours became stable enough to exist over time with a particular set of fundamental constants. After trillions times trillions of random trial and error, the basis for life persisted over time so that inherent evolution processes began working. If the constants had not been what they are, we would not be here to discuss them.

The Universe is what it is, & we are the slime mold that grows on it.

Wise person.

Our universe WAS intelligently designed…by the Q Continuum. They inspired the writers of TNG to reveal themselves, so that we might know of them. What’s that? A ridiculous leap of logic based on a specific, manmade work? But it’s what I BELIEVE! You might think the implication of a designed universe is but one step to a specific deity or pantheon, but it’s an open-and-shut case to we Continuuists. The Q is the A, as in A-MEN!

Da Universe IS God,God IS da Universe,da Holy Spirit of da Bible being da energy of da Universe,there.....😮

We are told that Fine tuning, 3 billion coded pairs of human DNA sequences, living molecular machines etc are just a result of mindless unguided random chance...

How can God be a personal God when everyone is supposed to believe. Then you cannot say what is evil until everyone believes in God.

Still say his vacuums are good, but overpriced. Except his Quantum vacuums.

The cosmo is a type of mind and the mind is a type of cosmo, and we now have the symbolic tools to formalize those similarities and incorporate the image of the big Other as a symbol of the small Self. Memory, imagination, gravity and radiation behave in a choreographed fashion. There is music playing on the stars, and we should listen. Or else let’s play our hearts out so the stars can hear us.

👍👍👍

No.

No, the "fine-tuning" of universal constants does not in any way point to "God". The proposition has a similar contradiction as "intelligent design". If human life requires "fine-tuning", would not a living, intelligent "God" also require "fine-tuning" for its own existence? The universe is practically screaming at you, "I am random!" Infinite randomness not only could but would create everything that you now see, and infinite other things that you will never see. The "fine-tuning" of universal constants is pointing to the correctness of the "multiverse" theory,

Now, that's your choice if you choose to reduce science to mere particles and mathematics. That is not what science actually means, mind you. Science isn't defined as mathematics. Look into the etymology, yourself. God doesn't work the way the mind does, and little beliefs, warrents not merit for in your delimitation of the tool that is science - if in case you forgot: spirit, life, intellect, reason, and experience are fundamental and without such, there be no science; too, there be no observer nor the observable. Such persons in Dyson here, believes science is circumscribed to the sense perception organs strictly; displacing even the Intellect and Reason, such that, you now sully what is a true light of the Divine shining within man, in considering this akin to the animal nature and impulses of the corporeal organism. Such, in Dyson here, placing sense perception organs as criterion, feels that the Nous, mind, Spirit, the Divine unfoldment of light, should be brought down here to the sensual level, as opposed, to an anagogical ascent in Soul to the Divine. This is his opinion, because it's what he believes. And, is implausible. Perhaps science is now a term similar to the appellation that is God - concerning such: everybody has a different system, belief, idea, model, criterion of, and are based on ones bias, emotions, sentiments and experiences. And, all those people, with various beliefs and opinions, and are contradictory, are the very ones to be discarded in consideration by the true man of science, and such is the beginning road to real Wisdom and Knowledge and Self discovery! So very wonderful is it not! Pythagoras, Plato, Plotinus, Proclus; Vedanta, Nikayas, Vedas, Upanishads, the perennial philosophy, will always remain the Giants, and those who believe they are the big fish, unwiitingly, swim in the small pond. It's like the naked king out for a stroll. ah, yes...science without God, is no science at all, but a conceitful act in vainglory meriting contempt. 'Look how big you are: can build skylines and cars, etc. but, still cannot see the elephant in the room; therefore there is no elephant'. Wonderful! Absolutely wonderful! God is more real than anything. Imagine: money, cash, curreny, has actually no existential reality or attributes, other than the belief we all attach to it by our volition, and without knowing this! And everything of man's mind is akin to cash, which you all cleave to as if it is reality. You think cars exist? You think government exists? You think Jeffery epstein done himself in? The politicians are for the peoples, animals, natures, best interests? You think your "idea" of "science" is in fact existential and of reality? These guys are claiming to know what "science" is but it's a figment of the imagination! I better stop, before i make the world collapse into a black hole.

No. Next question.

Fine tuning is an accident or a divine design, what will it be? Physicists cannot make their mind.

Incoherent arguments, what is it mean to be scientifically fundamentalist ? the whole scientific process is based on doubt, the religious process on absolute truth !! Fine tuning is really the ultimate god of the gaps move!!

A short comment please: Why is there life in our universe and trillions of other universes that are not fine tuned for life? Did God screw up? fjgiie

If God created life, he also created life to die after a very short time span.

To put religion on par with science is begging the question

It leads to no deities.

Yes, see the universe constants. With a tiny little difference the universe would have failed to exist. This is why they invented the multiverse, a weak theory.

Rubbish. It’s all rocks on fire

NO, grow up....

The answer is that it’s more probably true than not.

Yes, absolutely! A finely tuned universe leads to God in the same way that _not_ being able to accurately predict the position of a particle leads to a Multiverse. Both are consciousness-driven conclusions based on a *lack of information* paired with the *power of conceivability* In the case of God, if the universe appears in any way "orchestrated" (no matter how small), and the reason for this is orchestration remains unknown, then consciousness necessarily expands the source of that orchestration to the level of an infinite God. ... This is where you ultimately end up because anything beyond an infinite God would be inconceivable. Likewise, if we can't accurately predict the position of a particle and the reason for why we can't remains unknown, then consciousness necessarily kicks in and expands the position of the particle to every position it could possibly be in, which results in a Multiverse. ... This is where you ultimately end up because anything beyond an infinite Multiverse would be inconceivable. ... One day we will realize this and start rethinking how "Existence" operates.

"Does Fine-Tuned Universe Lead to God?" Fine-tuned Universe would be impossible without a Fine-Tuner.. if you disagree, you may need a surgeon to overhaul your brain... ..however, it is not accurate to say it leads to God but, rather, it leads to FAITH in the existence of a Loving GOD who is unknown.. Furthermore, this Universe was magnificently fine-tuned with imperfections for us to understand what is bad, good, better, or best, ugly or beautiful, so for us to have a hint that there is better or worse place out there (heaven & hell) to hopefully find faith in God. So, focus more on your soul's fate because it is your immortal soul that survives when your temporary physical body dies and rots because natural calamities, diseases, or all sufferings you undergo in this Universe can NEVER destroy you immortal soul... only losing faith or without faith in a loving God can hurt your soul... Once again, the purpose of the creation of Physical Universe is for lost souls, who fell from Heaven, to have a temporary home for a chance of salvation through regaining faith in a loving God. Our lost souls were sent here (on our request) so to have a chance of salvation by regaining the faith that we lost that ended us all in hell - a state of cold dark nothingness...We lost Heaven because we lost faith, so only by regaining this faith that we can return Home. ... In other words, we were not sent here to know but to believe because knowledge can compromise your free will to believe, so, evidence or proof is not required to have faith so for us all to be welcomed back to Heaven which is our Original Home. This is the MAIN PURPOSE of our temporary physical existence.. I do not know this. This is my understanding of the light that I believe was shared to me because of my strong faith. Believe it or not, you are free to choose. Pls share this light to all if you believe. This may resolve religious differences to possibly unite as one religion of faith in a loving God.

The fine-tuning argument is the argument for the existence of God that states the universe seems designed. Atheism is the idea that the universe was not designed by an intelligent entity, therefore it is the result of arbitrary randomness. Atheism is the idea that the universe is eternal, which is impossible. Atheism is not knowing, not wanting to know and wanting to make others believe it is not possible to know. An example of the fine-tuning argument could be water that boils at 100 degrees and freezes at 0 degrees Celsius. Do you think the neat numbers are a coincidence? Are 0 and 100 random? Bear in mind there are infinite numbers and for example water could have boiled at 116 and freezed at 1.7 or any other two odd numbers. Can you think of any other features of the universe that points to the universe being designed? You don't have to believe in God because God is necessary because logically it is impossible the existence of the creation without the creator. What has a beginning of existence must be created from what is eternal. What has a beginning of existence has a cause because from nothing can not be created something. Nothing is absence of existence, nothing is what innocent and vulnerable children understand by nothing. Logically it is impossible the existence of an infinite number of causes and effects, therefore an eternal first uncaused cause that caused what has a beginning of existence must exist. God is the first uncaused cause that is not talked about in churches, mosques, synagogues and atheist platforms, that's all!. God decided to create the universe uncaused. I think God is literally everything that exist past present and future, do you like God?. To end the war and other undesirable suffering the discovery that atheism is a logical fallacy has to be news. The truth is atheism is a logical fallacy that assumes God is the religious idea of the creator of the creation to conclude wrongly no creator exists because a particular idea of God doesn’t exist. Emergency! Share to collaborate. Thank you.

Brothers & Susters: please read Quran

Oh sure. Why not? It just isn't the Jews' god.

Does a Fine-Tuned Universe Lead to God? No, but Islam does.