French NATO Standardization: the MAS 49-56 in 7.62mm 

No shit because of Ian i shelled out 600.00 for an Albanian sks

That was me when I saw his video on the Mauser HSv competitor to the P.38. Then learned those were the only two in existence. Bugger. Maybe I’ll have enough money someday to pay a gunsmith to make me a one-off duplicate.

Yep forgotten weapons tend to be rare weapons!

@@ronnieman87 I had an Albanian for a while. Sold it and my ar plus about 500rds of each for a down payment on a car though...

I have one if you want to buy. 1600$ have access to the 7.5 as well.(know someone local to ATL)

I think he owns it

I'd probably just let him walk out with it anyways

@@dak4465 They let him walk away with an "original" version. Let Gun Jesus deal with the safety issues. LOL

The Judge agreed it was totaly understandable given the awesomeness of this gun.

3. Fighting those pesky commies

Apparently they missed the memo on the 20 magazine

@@alaskanbullworm5500 we missed the same memo on 30 rounds magazine aswell for FAMAS 😂

Do you mean grip? I mean i an splitting hairs... So do you call a magazine a 'clip?'

On 2Wheels no I meant magazine. By the late 50s magazines containing 20-30 cartridges were the standardized form of reloading, in that regard the mas 49/56 was behind, though I’m assuming it has to do with the fact that it doesn’t not have a full auto fire mode, so no need to have that many rounds in one sitting.

What is a SIR conversion? Not families with it.

@@828enigma6 SIR (standard infantry rifle ) is the gun used to kill zombie in world war z book . In the book the army produce a weapon who is a mix of ak/ar with a lot of wood part because no plastic. So yeah this mas is the closest to the describtion

If you could find bullets

The main problem is that century cut the recoil springs down about three inches. This caused the spent shell to extract too quickly and swell enough to get stuck in the chamber Mine did the same thing so I replaced the cut down spring with a new one and never had the problem again

What is the length for the 7.5 I got the 308 spring seemed rather weak got another one but seemed a bit long couldn’t get it to go in so yeah I cut it down really would like to know the length

If you’re still around, why not use steel case? They don’t fire from to the chamber and should run. Unless I’m mistaken.

But the stamping is actually "No" isn't it? Or is that small "o" just the way they abbreviate numero?

@@oldesertguy9616 French abbreviations like this typically use the first letter of the word in capital case and the last letter, in lower case, smaller, sometimes hightened (like exponents) and sometimes underlined (once or twice). So in this case the word ends with an o, which makes sense since "serial number" is "numéro de série".

@@ab-oj9wv je n'aurais pas su mieux l'expliquer, merci 😉

Just like the abbreviation for "modèle" - "Mᴸᴱ"

Couldn't have said it better myself, merci

I think it would have worked if they DIDN'T convert the rifles. The fire forming of the cases would have lowed the pressures like in the FG42. Problem solved.

How many conversions end up being just recycling the stock and maybe the trigger group while replacing every other component?

I mean there are some of the Jewish/Israeli conversions--just overstamp the markings with a Star of David and IDF crest, and then chop off the tip of the barrel, and you're good to go!

I think the Steyr-Hahn can be converted from 9x21 Steyr to 9x19 Parabellum by changing only the barrel, but that’s perhaps unusual.

@@oriontaylor Can't you convert .40sw pistols to .357sig with a barrel and spring change?

Chris Fyfe It’s because of him that I went from limited interest in French weapons to wanting one of each of the major rifles and pistols. And if any exist in private hands, one of the A6 Meunière trials rifles.

Nice

Wish I had of gotten in on that,

RavingRaptor No, Ethanol-Punk

@@GuitaristOnDaRoof drunk punk (since it's French)

@@Namesakes.unit-x-10sq10 Winepunk ?

@@neitherman9997 baguette punk🤔

William Jenssen surrender punk

He's likely forgotten more about firearms then we will ever know.

Sam even the firing pins look similar. Just the operating systems separating them, really.

@@509Gman well I'm glad my rapid assessment was technically correct. I always wondered why more modern guns don't copy the sks system but there's probably some reason for that

@@samuel88andrews Same as why nobody copied the M1 system - outdated, complex, has too many places to go wrong...

Ze big boy sks

Except that the SKS worked.

They used the same powder as 7.62 NATO in some batches of 5.56. It was the main problem.

I would love to - just have to fine one.

@@ForgottenWeapons it's strange because this mg is notorious with service man in France ( infantry or near frontline unit only ) and yet still almost unknown in France

Heeeey! A fellow Texan. Whats up dude.

@@dak4465 SOS in the land of guns;)

@@TheGearhead222 gotta love texas

10 round magazines are getting harder to find, but are usually not astronomically priced. I've heard that higher capacity mags (15 rd, perhaps) were produced in very small numbers, but II've never actually come across any. I have seen metric FAL mags adapted, usually using the spring clip from an original MAS mag (rendering its donor crippled). A few years ago I saw a listing on ebay for a handful of the spring clips for sale. At the time, I had a 20 rd and 30 rd FAL mags, but I could not get either to function well enough in my MAS to warrant use, and frankly, the 30 rd mag looked ridiculous and would have deleted prone position use. Great rifle though. 10 rounds of reliably auto-loaded .308 is pretty bad ass. I've never fired a 7.5 caliber. But I never had an issue with my century arms convert.

The MAS 49-56 worked fine, in 7.5mm. It was the misbegoten American cartridge that was the problem

@@kevinoliver3083 Your reasons for referring to 7.62x51 NATO as "misbegotten" is your own business but I wanted to add a little more to why I said it was sad that the MAS 49/56 didn't "work". The fact is, it did work, IF you spent enough time tuning the gas system and developing good load data for the .308W/7.62 NATO that closely resembled the bullet weights, powder burn rate, chamber and port pressure the MAS 49/56 was designed for. Since the 7.5x54 French was longer than the 7.62 NATO a little bit of feed angle on the 7.62 was also helpful. In my opinion these are small changes that would have made the MAS a very reliable combat weapon for either cartridge.

@168 Kayaking Welp, due to different timezones it makes it roughly half past three for me then! xD

If money wasn't the issue you could have fluted the chamber HK style to help smooth extraction.

Your face looks like a ds stylus

Sar Jim And mine works fine! there must be good and bad ones. Never had a single problem of either type.

@@legionitalia309 Yeah, I had a buddy with one and his worked great. I know several other guys from the range that had ones that worked like mine.That's what makes these rifles so frustrating. You can't tell just by looking at them which one will work and which one won't.

I had to make a gas aperture for the gas block on mine to shoot most brass case. They lost some dwell time when they got rechambered. You have to either tone the gas down or shoot light loads in brass or any steel case should shoot fine. Some brass surplus is light enough like Pakistani or any steel case should be ok. The slam firing they all do but again it's minimal with surplus military ammo or steel case.

Yeah, COS had some of these fugly rifles, like the ugly cousin of SOCOM 16. i40.servimg.com/u/f40/11/40/78/18/untitl16.jpg i40.servimg.com/u/f40/11/40/78/18/untitl18.jpg

Aka "slam fire". When the bolt loads a round into battery and the inertia of the firing pin causes it to strike the primer hard enough to discharge the round. This can occur when manually 'racking' the first round of a magazine, but is more commonly experienced immediately subsequent to an intensional discharge. Sometimes it can compound, resulting in a full mag dump.

You can see mock-up photos of a couple of double-page spreads on the Kickstarter page: www.kickstarter.com/projects/headstamp/chassepot-to-famas-french-military-rifles-1866-201

Razor 1uk I’ve used pen springs for more gun repairs than I care to admit...

@@Kaboomf Really? I was just guesstimating by apparent size. ..are some spring requirements that soft - then again some pen springs can be quite robust - usually the steel alloy-ish ones.

Given there have been reports the BIC sourced its early springs from the same manufacturer as the MAS rifles it probably will work. (BIC is a French company).

More of a manual "Straight pull' than a semi-auto. Interestingly, the M14, which was a contemporary of the GPMG M60, used a piston system that worked fairly similarly. However, it was designed so that the piston could only be fitted into the cylinder ONE way.

Probably not in the long run, the SKS's main advantage is that you can shoot the lowest-quality ammo ever all day long. The ammo for the MAS 49 will cost at least $1 per round as opposed to ~25 cents for 7.62x39. If you reload though the costs might even out.

The Vietnamese beat the hell outa US so you already know the answer to that.

"How did they faire?" Either "fare" or "comment ont ils fait" :)

@@francislematt7079 Nope, NVA/VC just had a bigger meat bank.

@@francislematt7079 That is by far the most inaccurate and illogical answer I have ever seen and the human race is now dumber for having seen it.

@@SportbikerNZ Not so much that the North Vietnamese had the political will to commit to the war. Any NVA or Viet Cong(NLF) fighter would absolutely want and AK derivative over any captured French rifle if they had the choice simply because the AK was a better overall weapon and provided better firepower.

..I do think, Ian's book is in 'real published' book format only. Otherwise with the internet being what it is, it would be quickly become appropiated by other means, and not recoup his (and associates) effort(s) involved.

@@razor1uk610 thanks for letting me know

When I find access to one, I will!

Yeah it's ruined collecting French guns for me, I considered myself lucky to get a lebel for 500 bucks, berthier rifles and Mas 36 are impossible to get now for a decent price.

The hard primers are a hangover from the Lebel tubular magazine. A magazine chain fire will ruin your day.

When I find one, I certainly will.

@@ForgottenWeapons you can visit India :D

Ian told they never did

DonziGT230 mine has been reliable as well.

I think the addition of an adjustable gas regulator would solve a lot of the function problems that most of these conversions seem to have. It seems like the French would have thought of that though. I would like the hear some one knowledgeable talk about it.

@@rangemasterken Why on earth would a maker of a military firearm add a device to help it function after a caliber conversion for civilian use? Especially when that device could lead to malfunctions on the battle field. There is at least one person who's made an adjustable gas block for these and I've considered it, but instead I just load light for it to not beat it up.

@@DonziGT230 I just meant that (going by what Ian said in the video about the French having malfunction problems ) I'm sure that they would have thought to try using a gas regulator or restricting the gas flow by some other means to try and stop the malfunctions in their 7.62 NATO version of the MAS 49/56. Maybe that doesn't work but If someone is making an adjustable gas block for these rifles, I would like to get one or at least talk to someone that has done a conversion using one. The MAS 49/56 is one of my favorite rifles and I would like to have one properly converted to shoot 7.62 NATO surplus ammo.

Because France is French and they do things the French way not the Belgian way.

www.kickstarter.com/discover/advanced?category_id=18&sort=most_funded&seed=2598311&page=1

since it is a conversion, the cost of modifying all these parts may have offset the savings of making a conversion instead of going for a brand new rifle.

Apparently with the century conversions people tend to pick up adjustable gas blocks for them, I'm getting one for my rifle so hopefully it works

@@jmjedi923 it’ll work out, because if I can build something in my apartment for it and make it work REALLY easily then a real deal should be cake!

From the sounds of the video, yes, such a change should have worked, in tandem with other improvements and problem-solving. It's hard to believe that the makers of ammunition for the MAS 49/56 rifle - and NATO ammunition as well - weren't consulted during the conversation process, but I guess the French were no different than our ordnance dept., the guys who changed the propellant in the original M193 ammunition for the first AR15s/M16s, thereby creating all sorts of problems needing to be fixed before the rifles would work reliably. The lesson for gun-designers and engineers in all of this, however, is to build into your rifle designs some sort of means of compensating at least somewhat for different types, manufacturers and levels of performance even within the same caliber. In other words, if the rifle is so finicky that it works only one specific propellant, primer, bullet and brass combination, then the overall-robustness and reliability of the rifle/carbine is likely to be substandard in the field. It also sounds like their experience mirrors our own in that ammunition and firearms designers and manufacturers need to cooperate closely and make sure everyone is reading from the same sheet of music, so to speak.

@@GeorgiaBoy1961 If you go back to the CETME video series, you can see that when they were originally trying to adapt the CETME B to work with 7.62 NATO they originally played with the lightened and downloaded 7.62 CETME cartridge. Now, they scrapped that project, but it shows that it would not be unreasonable to tinker with some sort of alternate 7.62 cartridge to make the rifle work. The 7.5 French cartridge was far closer in dimension and performance to the 7.62 NATO than the original 8mm CETME cartridge, but of course in both cases they were attempting to adapt a system that worked well as designed to a more stout NATO cartridge

I've always thought that the Spanish idea of using a reduced power .308-cal. 7.62x51 NATO load was a good one. Obviously, the cartridge would have to be sufficiently powerful to cycle the action, but within those upper and lower limits, there's room to do some things. It could have been as simple as having a lighter and lighter-recoiling load for use in general close-medium range operation, say out to 500 meters, and then a full-power load with a heavier slug for reaching out past that in semi-auto only or for precision use. The CETME is a roller-delayed blowback design, so no gas system, but on a gas gun like the FAL, which has an adjustable gas regulator, dialing in different types/power of ammo would have been easy. Your low-recoil/low-weight bullet combination would be a sort of ersatz intermediate cartridge, excepting using the same case dimensions as a standard power 7.62x51 NATO. For a time during the Cold War, the Czechs made 7.62x45 ammunition, with a 131-grain FMJ bullet driven at 2,500 fps. That would be a good jumping off point. And the 7.62x45 was well-liked by those soldiers who used it in combat.

Oops,it was Russia 1890,although I did read somewhere that Chatellraught somehow was involved🥴

No they headspace off the shoulder, it won't fire (most of the time). Like putting a 222 Remington in a 223 and those are way closer and doesn't shoot. You may get lucky enough for the extractor to catch a rim and hold it up to the bolt face but almost impossible.

Possibly, but at the cost of a whole new barrel. This was only justifiable if the conversion was relatively inexpensive.

I think that technically it is numero (Latin), but I suspect your point was nombre is quantity and numéro is a bunch of digits and as a serial number it is numéro 238 (feel free to correct or amplify as appropriate). Are there cases where No. would be considered nombre by French speakers?

@@Hi11is the two terms "nombre" and "numéro" are often used in the same way in french, but in current speech you will choose "numéro" over "nombre" when picking one numbered item which is part of a set (hotel rooms, roulette numbers, serial numbers... etc.).

French women?

_Freedom_ Women.

Bergmann pistols, of course!

Chinese mystery pistols duh.