This is probably the most fascinating bit of world building in this series for me. Normally you’d expect the twist to be that Frieren needs to confront her prejudice and realize that demons can be reasoned with, but no. Demons aren’t some kind of variant humans, they are a perfect predator. Language is an adaptation to trick people just like animals develop camouflage. It’s a really cool subversion of a lot of morally grey series where the show is telling you “No this time the monsters are really just monsters.” The way Flamme categorizes them, the only difference between demons and other monsters we see, such as the dragon Stark fought, is that they use speech as a tool to hunt rather than wings or claws. It’s not necessarily even a question of good or evil and more just nature.
And it's lost on so many dumb watchers that it birthed the idiotic "frierens racist" meme like you said these are not variant humans these are not people they are literally just clever animals they hunt with words
And they portray the intelligent animalistic nature so well; where I can't even look at the demons and say, "that's evil". They just, are. Refreshing to have something just be something in a fantasy universe
I love it as part of world building, its creative, refreshing and it really makes sense. Although, it does create a bit of weird message "dont trust this group, they might look like us and might seem human, but they're not, they're fundamentally evil". I'm not accusing the show of anything just point it out
@@bigorna4875 I can see how that might read weird. However, I personally don’t think it’s too much of an issue. Demons are a fantasy race that can’t really be mapped too cleanly onto any real-world group, so I don’t think the series is in too much danger of giving off the wrong message. I kind of see it as the series creating a what-if scenario where it puts humans (and elves in this case) down a spot in the food chain by adding a species that specifically hunts them, with demons portrayed as something fundamentally different. That said, it would be interesting if the series decided to focus on how demons existing might cause the people in this world to trust other people less (I haven’t read the manga that’s just speculation on a cool thing that might happen, please nobody post spoilers if something like that actually happens).
Yeah. Funnily enough, the "they're not that evil" trope got so common that nowadays if you wanna subvert anything you actually have to do it the old way: "they're just purely evil and thats it". I love how Frieren did that, its perfect.
Getting a half-demon, half-human would be like getting a half-human, half-dog. They're completely different species. Hell, dogs are closer to humans than monsters are in this world. Monsters (which demons are) aren't even made of the same thing.
I always like to mention, if we as an audience didn't trust Frieren or have scenes of the demons scheming, all of us would probably fall for their manipulation. Even Lola had doubts for a moment.
"Maybe this is going to be a Frieren episode without crying" Haha, that doesn't exist. Every episode has its cute little message that will make your eyes wet.
The Elves don't have children often. However, when they do, they do raise them and take care of them. One clue to this is in Episode 4. While Fern is trying to wake her, Frieren called her Mom when still out of it.
And I love seeing every time the shot is just Frieren against the sky. A lot of times it's when they're talking about Himmel or she's reciting/reflecting on something he's connected with.
I want to answer all your questions but, as you have both said many times, the pacing of the show is so good. That applies not only to each episode but to the series as a whole, I think. Questions are raised but answers are given when they will have the most impact... on the story... on you. All things come to she who waits. Patience is encouraged in the viewer and rewarded. The only sad thing about it is that the reward is not a shoulder massage from Stark and a feeding from Fern, but it's still worth waiting for. It's a fascinating world and I'm really, really loving your reactions to it. You are so interesting. btw... does your T-shirt really say, "I'm so hot even life gets hard"? That's quite a statement! You need some self-confidence to wear that. I love it 😂 I don't usually comment on reactors' attire because it can be taken so many wrong ways but your top just made me laugh in such a good way. I want one but I'm not sure I'd have the courage to wear it in public 😅
Updated list of German words: *Aura* = aura *Draht* = wire *Eisen* = iron *Eng* Road = tight, narrow *Ewig* the sage = eternal, forever *Fern* = far away, distant *Flamme* = flame *Frieren* = to freeze, to feel cold *Heiter* = cheerful, merry *Himmel* = heaven (can refer to the sky and heaven in a religious sense) *Linie* = line *Lügner* = liar *Stark* = strong *Qual* = agony, torture If you can understand German, characters like Lord Lügner make Frieren absolutely hilarious at times. Who would've thought a character named Lord Liar turned out to be a liar 😄
you can add Granat, it's short for Granatapfel = pomegranate which seems intentional, given the color of the Granat familiy crest and them guarding the tree the barrier was cast upon
Frieren Friday carried over from when the show originally aired on Fridays, on streaming sites. We also had MaoMao Saturdays and later DunMeshi Thursday!
8:27 There was a swing: given it was Frieren flashing back, it suggests a burnt Elven home that had at least one child, contributing to the increasing rate of extinction.
You just know it's gonna be a great episode when Milena calls Frieren "reedickolus". 😂 I think demons are like mosquitos. They have no benefit at all towards humanity and, for us, it would be absolutely great if they were completely eradicated off of the face of the planet. But they aren't inherently evil creatures. They just do what they need to do for their survival.
Regarding the matter of demons using speech. Think of it like how humans do bird sounds to communicate when hunting. Or how we "meow" at a cat. We do not know what these sounds mean but only thet it works on animals. Same thing with demons and humans, only super complex.
No Spoilers! Having read the manga I guess that talking with demons is the equivalent to talk with hypothethical parrot that is human-like but talking to him is meanningless since they dont have the same intrinsic values that we have, he may tag along someone but the same way some animals only have certain attachment if he is not beneffited he will go away, the same way that we dont call spiders or scorpions evil because they are inherently another species but to us certain behaviour will be called evil
I like to compare it to insects that have evolved to look like ants or give off the same chemical signals as ants so that they can infiltrate ant colonies and take advantage of them. As far as the ants can tell, those insects are just other ants. But they are not ants, will never be ants, and don't think like ants. They are fundamentally completely different creatures.
@@martinloss4171 There are 133 chapters at the moment and they already adapted 60 chapters, so that's still almost half of the manga they used for the anime.
I like the direction this story took with the "evil race" trope. Frieren makes it pretty clear that they're ultimately just predators of humans---their intelligence has increased over time, but their instincts haven't really fundamentally changed, at least not to the same degree. It's an unsettling idea, at least for me, because it seems wrong somehow that something smart enough to converse with us just wouldn't even begin to grasp our moral ideas, and wouldn't see equal intelligence as worthy of any respect.
Since you were asking, this arc goes through episode 10. Episode 8 is my favorite, I love how Frieren is a badass. My girlfriend loves episode 10, she thinks it is epic.
The inability to comprehend the demon not comprehending is exactly the same level of incomprehension that you're trying to comprehend. I hope that's useful.
Demons are monsters that can talk and look human. I think not all humans look exactly human like Lügner and co (take for instance the demon mage that invented Zoltrak, forgot his name. He's completely capable of human speech but does not look human) Demons and dragons are monsters, amongst other types of monsters.
Day number 2 of asking for an FLCL watch through. this is almost caught up with what I’ve seen of Frieren, I enjoy your emotional input as a guy that also cries every other episode.
I’d recommend 『Oshi no Ko』 『Demon Slayer : Kimetsu no Yaiba』 『A Place Further than the Universe』 『Nadia, The Secret of Blue Water』 『Kaguya-sama: Love is War』 『Your Name』 『KiKi’s Delivery Service』 『Nausicaä of the Valley of the Wind』 『 Violet Evergarden Eternity And The Auto Memory Doll』
My interpretation of demons is that we really want to believe that they have redemption within them, but we are just asking the wrong question. When a lion eats a baby zebra, is the lion being cruel? No, it is not. It is the cycle of life. Demons are just creatures whose hunting techniques include "blending" with us, but for that demon who ate the girl, there is nothing wrong or immoral about it. She was hungry and she feasted. Just like us humans think that cows and pigs are adorable and we still eat calves and piglets, which are basically suckling babies. You go to a farm, the family loves this animal, and the next thing you know the animal is dinner. I don't think that demons are evil, because I do not think that we can attribute human morals to other creatures, especially not just because they "look like us". Demons are wild animals, and like all wild animals, they may play you for a bit and it is all fun and giggles, and then they eat your face for no reason other than they can.
I find it a refreshing view of demons. Instead of being evil creatures, they are just "psychopathic" wild animals. In some shows, demons do the most evil and cruel thing because that is what demons do. Here, they are not doing evil per se, it so happens that us humans would consider many of their actions evil, but for them they are just opening the gates of the farm that they consider rightfully theirs.
Demons are powerful predators who instinctively want to destroy humans. It's arrogant to think they could be educated morality or empathy of humans, because that's not who they are, nor what they care about.
This episode and the ones following are important for setting down the nature of demons in the world of Frieren. In fantasy manga/anime, there is a wide range of how demons are portrayed and used. Some basically have demons just be a term for non-human races that sometimes even included elves!! But here, demons are a type of monster who can speak. But they speak to deceive. They are predators. And WE are their prey. So having emotions like us or even empathy would make it hard for them to prey on us. They do NOT understand basic concepts like family, as you see here. Or love, mercy, etc. Notice that Lord Lugner AGREED with what Frieren said about demons. So its not that Frieren believes something untrue. Sadly, there are too many people who refuse to accept the concept of evil races in fantasy, like orcs, trolls, and goblins in Lord of the Rings, and instead claim that these races are somehow standing for blacks or other "marginalized races" No they aren't. The next couple of episodes will be INTENSE!!!
16:47 As you've probably figured out by now, basically all the names in this show are German, and the meaning of the words are relevant to the character. The character's name is Lügner, which is German for "liar".
I don't understand the desperate need to search for any justification for the demons in this series. We get introduced to them with one of them eating a child and then killing a father to gift his daughter to other parents while burning a house down. What does this monster need to do to be called evil? Kill the whole town? Attack a protagonist? There is no "two sides" to this story lol
Demons are animals that are higher in food chain than humans. Simple as. They arent "evil" either thats were you go wrong. Wolf isint "evil" for working as pack and running legs under the elk to eat it.
Manga spoiler . We actually have a demon who is fascinated with humans and goes to live among them hoping to develop empathy and human emotions . He spends decades doing this and … nothing . Despite his best efforts he is biologically impossible to develop such feelings
Great reaction (and thumbnail?!?). So I am going to label below SPOILERS but just as a precaution. I just wanted to talk about the series a bit more broadly, with some general speculation around Frieren and how it can be subversive, but also about the context the show establishes. I am mindful that I have watched all of the first anime season, but, technically only details up until now will be used. Either way though SPOILERS BELOW. ... ... ... ... ... SPOILERS. Like many others, I think how this show does Demons is really interesting and good. A lot of shows, with fantasy species, often don't actually have too many differences, and such fantasy races often just seem like humans. Which isn't always a bad thing, but their behaviour, attitudes, thought processes, emotions and so on... Like even the evil or destructive races can just seem like angry malicious humans. Which can also mean a lot of them, can get subversive with that, and we get series and shows with the "evil race", but actually there are some "good ones", and you shouldn't generalise a "race" that way, and or that, there is a chance that some can use will power to be good, or that with empathetic and friendly treatment they will be different... The execution can vary. I personally can like a lot of those shows, especially the more human like they are... since thats accurate to reality, as far as environmental factors... That being said, Frieren is a really kind and good natured show... Like wholesome, sweet, it talks about how fear is okay, and even normal, and can be a strength... It highlights and extols the virtues of patience, and small acts of help and generosity, and selflessness. So I get the sense, that by trying to really emphasis Frierens skepticism, bluntness around demons? Its probably a pretty significant sign that the show, is trying to tell us, these aren't just misunderstood monsters. Its like how their are some fish that have physiology, so they lure in and attract other fish, just so they can eeat them. There isn't really morality involved there, the lure/light they have... Its not a tool of neutral interaction, they aren't trying to lure other fishes, so maybe they can be friends, or communicate, its really just there for a predator and prey dynamic. Like I think if the wholesome, sweet elf show about friendship and taking things slow so you can enjoy moments and appreciate life more... are trying to sell the demons, as only really using language to try, and deceive... Thats significant. I think the mention of sociopathy (and psychopathy can be referenced as well), is a good one, for a few reasons. I personally think too many have a too simple and warped idea of people with that condition (and I am myself using outdated terminology). To oversimplify things that are very complicated though, I also get it. Like why there is a stigma. In modern times, ideally... you have people who have support and safety nets, any individuals who may have behavioural issues, disorders, tendencies, that might make them seem like sociopaths or psychopaths to others... In ideal modern times, its not actually too massive an issue. Like there things that parents, families, neighbourhood, communities, medial and mental health professionals can do, so that such individuals lead relatively normal and functional lives and contribute fairly. However, say 500 years ago, when our collective understanding of mental health was inferior, we didn't necessarily have good societal safety nets... well different situation and story. Now introduce the power dynamic where such individuals are basically giant cats with no empathy, and only view things in transactions and predator and prey dynamics... I can see why Frieren has a very simple and unforgiving attitude. The show even having Himmel actually regret his action... its unusual for them to frame him that way... I personally get the impression. that the show is trying to tell us, demons aren't some misunderstood creature we can feel bad for, and wonder if they can be good, I don't even think they are trying to say these are like animals who just don't think like us, and may prey on us, since animals (wild animals)... well even their behaviour is more nuanced... I think the show is suggesting that these are like sociopathic tricksters who only view others as prey, and themselves as predators, and nothing in that setting could really exist to allow for any sort of neutral or friendly exchanges, because of the power and knowledge differences. Which I think is excellent writing and world building, and relatively rare and fresh, especially in the context of the show overall. Monsters and demons have more depth this way, because many peoples first instinct will be to think of possibilities (and to be fair, maybe in the Manga, they eventually reveal a friendly demon), but to my impression, thats not the vibe I am getting. Rather these are adversaries that are deep and interesting because they are so different and alien and lacking in empathy and empathy potential. I also say all this, as the sort of person that would probably end up dead, because I would have been like the villager in this episode who tried to raise the "poor demon child" who in my eyes, just needs shelter and food and a chance, (well granted, I also would try to actually learn more about demon nature and have some healthy skepticism too, but yeah). Anyway its the sort of small thing I think Frieren as a show does extremely well. Demons are not just reskinned humans, they have a well considered and different evolutionary tract (another way to think about it, is to look at that demon from a few episodes back who shows you illusions of your loved ones to trick you... Its deceitful. You can try and be nice and understanding to it, but its literally an illusion. Quite a cruel one too, hence the effectiveness.
Para los del mundo del anime, parece que se cansaron del hecho de que demonios hayan sido humanizados capaces de tener empatia y sentimientos hacia los humanos, entonces el hecho de que en Frieren se traten a los demonios como monstruos que hacen simplemente son eso, monstruos sin concepto de maldad o de malicia. Todo este tema se trata mejor en uno de los mejores arcos del manga
I think they would as well, but there is a weird backlash against the show. I honestly think it was a victim of getting to be too popular so then the anime snobs and contrarian had to find reasons to attack it.
@@CysaDaMercno its just a very average show with good animation and music. Thats it. I dont think its wrongly attacked, people genuinely think it doesnt deserve its hype. If it was an average fanbase anime that was not put in same lists as other big names, then no one would care and ppl would leave it alone.
@@Exter98 Thanks for the perfect example of what I'm talking about. You call it very average but in the same sentence admit that it has good animation and music. All of the attacks against the show I've seen are the people just complaining that it's some how "mid" while simultaneously admitting it has qualities that make it extraordinary. I vehemently disagree with you and put to you that the good animation and music are what make it a great show. My only complaint against it is that its too short and has too many cliffhangers.
@@CysaDaMerc yea no sorry. That alone isn't enough to make a show good. It's animation and soundtrack are GOOD, not REVOLUTIONARY. So its not good enough make up for all the other lacking or bad parts of the show. Which makes it an overall average asf show. There's actual anime out there that are high quality in all those aspects, that's why they stand at top. Frieren itself being a perfect example. Also me personally will even take an anime with bad animation but good writing always over the good animation with bad writing. But that's just personal preference I guess?
I think demons INSTINCTIVELY don’t raise their young. In your discussion, you mentioned they were never “taught”. Demons are born without empathy, so their actions are ruled by logic and their own survival instincts. As you said, they are not necessarily evil/malicious, but I don’t believe demons could simply be taught empathy. They’ve been around for centuries along with the other races, and I find it difficult to believe that such attempts weren’t already made. In the end, demons view humans as prey, so basically the only choice is to leave them be or defend yourself.
About demon slayer, The plot itself does not have a lot of depth, It's a simple shonen anime but the characters themselves are relatively deep. You get backstories on even the demons they fight and the reason they turned out the way they did. It's the same for morally gray Demon Slayers. And Idk I usually hate simple plot shows but for some reason Demon Slayer just works. The power system is pretty interesting and the visuals are beautiful. Honestly I don't really cry a lot but the only two shows that ever made me cry were Frieren and Demon Slayer. Both shows got hate for the same reason being that the plot is too simple but the characters are what really matter in a show in my opinion because an interesting plot doesn't make up for lackluster characters.
Himmel: "I can't just kill her. She's a child." Frieren: "Shit, I'll do it. Hell, I'd have done it already, but I thought you wanted to do it." Demons aren't another race of humanity like Elves and Dwarves are. They are monsters, like the dragon, that have evolved to look and talk like humans to make hunting their preferred prey easier. They use their appearance and ability to talk in the same way that the Einsam monster used illusions of Heiter and Himmel to try and eat Fern and Frieren.
FINALLLYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY, I love those episodes and the action, can't wait to see your reaction to the others. Lots of love from a brazilian fan'! and great thumbnail btw, great job
People who say Demon Slayer has no depth are just morons. Or, more precisely, wannabe anime snobs, who think they have refined tastes, but instead just latch onto pretentious opinions that make no sense at all. There's zero chance you won't like that show.
Its interesting because Frerien doesn't really make them out to be Evil in her explanations. Evil can be negotiated with. She presents them as monsters that eat humans for food and adapted to speak to better do that. I wouldn't view a pack of wolves that live by a village and ate a human as Evil. I'd still think the village should hunt wolves. If the wolves could speak, it wouldn't change that conclusion.
Comparing Demons in this series to wild animals is just false, because it's explicitly stated that they don't need to eat humans for sustanance. They kill because they want to, if that's not evil I don't know what is lol
@FeastForThought Does it say that? When? I don't recall it, and there's a video essay series analyzing it as Person Vs Nature. Also I'm not sure that changes much either. Wolves can eat things other than humans, won't stop them. Humans can also eat things other than meat yet we do. I'm not sure that they can eat other things is a convincing argument. I believe you are conflating the ability to speak with the ability to experience and understand morality. It's what Graf is doing, and Freiern, correctly so, points out that is misguided and dangerously so.
@@ryanlarkin9783 "It's not as though they have to eat humans to survive, right?" is the quote from 13:55 this episode. Wouldn't be the first time some essay is wrong. Like I said comparing them to wild animals is strictly false because wolfs or bears or whatever didn't evolve to speak with the sole goal to deceive humans either to kill them or level a whole town. This kind of malice has nothing to do with any kind of encounter with an animal. So it changes everything.
@FeastForThought The counterpoint that they evolved to kill humans is indicative of morality isn't very persuasive due to evolution not being a choice but a reaction to environmental preasure. Ie humans hunt monsters, monsters with ability to speak survive more. The counterpoint about leveling a town is much more persuasive. I would point out, though, that the Demons are originally solitary but banded together only to fight humans. Leveling settlements to prevent humans from banding together would be a logical result of that overall development. But that's just a possibility. While I still believe that Demons are much more like animals (in fact, Freieren herself points that out) I can see your view.
@@FeastForThought Why does Frieren compare them to wild animals then? The story is probably using “evolution” more loosely since it’s a fantasy story with magical creatures, but even so-evolving in a certain way isn’t malice.
Demon Slayer has a lot of depth but you have to look for it. It can be enjoyed purely for the surface story, though. I’m not recommending it or anything, I’m just responding to your intro. You might like it, you might not. I’m gonna watch your Frieren reaction now, cos I know all three of us love that, and probably comment again after. I really love your Frieren reactions so much. I spontaneously smile when I see your thumbnail 😊
in the mang they use a fish vs aquatic mamal imagery, look the same if u see them from afar but inside the squeleton is not similar not even made from the same type of bones and have different organes. one of the is a fish (human), the other is a mamal (monster) that evolved fishlike atribut to hunt them better
8:28 That was a swing in front of the fire, maybe where she came from? 10:55 "Lügner" means "liar" in German btw. 23:14 Frieren said this episode that Flamme called all monsters demons who are capable of human speech. So think the other one was also a demon buy of a different kind maybe.
No, you got it backwards. Flamme said demons are monsters who are capable of human speech, not the other way around. Demons are essentially monsters who evolved to deceive humans. So while it's true that all demons are monsters, not all monsters are demons. The "freezed" monster they were talking about was indeed a demon, his name was Qual, he was a part of the demon king's army and Frieren came back to defeat him for good in episode 3.
The one that was frozen was a demon. His name was Qual and he was also one of the Seven Sages of Destruction, like Aura is. Demons are monsters capable of speech. If they can talk, they're a demon. If they can't they're just a monster.
Qual was NOT one of the seven sages of destruction. His NICKNAME was the SAGE OF CORRUPTION. You can see in chapter 63 when all seven sages are lined up to face against the hero of the south, Qual wasn't there at all, since he was never a sage of destruction.
No, Qual wasn't one of the seven sages of destruction. But since his nickname was "elder sage of corruption" many people wrongly assume he was a part of that group; he wasn't tho, that's just his nickname, he wasn't one of the sages of destruction.
I don't know who's saying they wouldn't enjoy demon slayer but are they fr? These two would definitely enjoy it, with tanjiro as a character and his love for his sister and all the demon's backstories. And how cute tanjiro and his interactions are
@@StickManVS oh i agree! There's other better shows that make better reactions and reviews from them but as an enjoyment they definitely would like it and have a good time
They would hate that the female MC is just a voiceless plot device, literally associated with an object and that Zenitsu trying to assault her is played for laughs.
Demon Slayer is awfully written highly enjoyable show. I watched all seasons of DS at least 5 times. This is how enjoyable it is. And yes - it's written really bad - from characters to power system and world building. Yet - absolute fun.
