"What was the name of that bastard he fathered?" "Brienne-" "No, that wasn't it..." Probably, the one thing Tyrion and Jaime are equals in is sense of humor.
Jaime is literally way more funny and savage than Tyrion in the books. He's also the smartest Lannister. But hey, douche & dipshit had to fuck it up, like everything else. Almost everyone he ever talked to got burned so hard, he was so good in barbequeing them. Trollknight The Savage.
@@95MidnightStar What ? Jaime has never been the smartest Lannister, even in the books he's called the stupidest Lannister for following his father's orders and killing Tysha, and telling Tyrion the truth just before he escaped which led to his father's murder, Jaime is my fav Lannister, but your words just prove thay you've never read the books.
@@boodyjacob9322 Funny you accuse me of not reading the books and then you say Jaime killed Tysha. Where the fuck did you get that from and what books did you read? And, just because he followed his father's orders doesn't make him stupid, especially when that father is someone like Tywin.
Jaime understands what she cannot, i.e., being a person with flaws. He doesn't pretend to be anything but what he is. She gets angry when he points out her callous actions when she believes herself to be honourable. He can accept who he is but she loses it when he shatters the image she holds of herself.
Jamie would of killed her easily in his prime. The time they did face off he was half starved and had been sitting in chains for a year and yet she had to watch him. Disregard the show it’s crap read the books.
"you are no knight..." *Jaime makes good point* "Kingslayer...." *Jaime explains himself* "You are a man without honor..." *Jaime with the comeback* Arguing with a Stark is like arguing with someone through RU-vid comments. you're just not gonna get anywhere
You have the gift of hindsight and an observer's view of things. Jaime is incredibly cocky and that is why the monicker of Kingslayer is easy to believe. To say that anything Jaime says here is anything close to an explanation is... well frankly stupid. Ask yourself whether you even knew the truth then, and then would you regard Jaime any differently from Catelyn here?
+Alex Sommer Not really. While he's hinting as to what drove him toward much of his actions, he's not actually saying it and no one here yet knows. And so instead of his points coming across as logical counters, they just come off as half-ass excuses or flat-out mockery, just like his mocking of everything about Catelyn's family. It doesn't seem he's making arguments in good faith but using small hypocrisies as a way to justify the seemingly heinous things he's done, though his tone doesn't betray any true shame. Had he brouched this topic more humbly as he later does with Brienne, Catelyn may have listened. I doubt she would have forgiven him, not yet, but she would have been given reason to pause. Instead, he just seems insincere. It's like a seeming serial killer trying to use the fact people kill each other all the time to justify what he's done, and saying it in a snide tone to come across like he's just regarding the debate like some kind of game. Of course, Jaime's really not trying to convince Catelyn. He falls back on scorn, arrogance, and humor as a way to deflect from the fact that he's ashamed of himself. He doesn't want to be seen as a victim, so he embraces the facade of being a villain and owns it so people can't hurt him with it. And this is all just a part of that act. It's not until he and Brienne get close that we see the truly miserable human being underneath with very real justification for the things he did.
Ray14508 to hide his incest because he knows if the King finds out, he'll kill Jaime's sister & children. He did it to protect his family, as any father in the Seven Kingdoms would. The cousin killing I have no argument for it though.
Jamie never showed fear. He was a courageous honourable man until he had to protect Cersei. In that he lost his honour and his life. Sadly for Brienne.
@@Yue_Jin It was, but D&D were given a rough outline of the most important aspects by GRRM. A few years back GRRM stated that Brienne was a descendant of Ser Duncan the Tall, and she has the same qualities of honour and justice he had, so she will most likely get it
In this scene Jamie is really showing that he inherited his father's intellect, and is a smart person. Unlike in season 8 where he literally forgets to take off a golden hand while trying to be unrecognized
Jaime had it in perspective better than everyone. No one is completely innocent in this, but I find his and Tyrion's logic to be a lot better than most people's. His understanding of all the vows and oaths is pretty dead on. One way or another you're betraying one of them. People hate him for breaking his oath to protect the King. But if he did as the king wanted then the entire kingdom would have been burned alive. To take a line from Odin, "if not for him they wouldn't be standing there to hate him now."
God-Emperor of Mankind Brandon Stark was strangled, it was Rickard of whom was burned alive by Aerys' "champion". But keep in mind Jaime was only sixteen at the time, still a child by all rights. Don't blame him for not acting earlier : no one else acted, not Arthur Dayne, nor Barristan Selmy or Gerold Hightower- grown men, of whom witnessed Aerys' atrocities far longer than Jaime Lannister. It says a lot, when a boy has to do what grown men could not, rather, would not. That he was the only one who took action : Rhaegar would have, as he told Jaime before he'd left for the Trident - but we know how that story ends : he simply never made it back. And let's not forget, he wanted to help Rhaella. “You’re hurting me,” they had heard Rhaella cry through the oaken door. “You’re hurting me.” In some queer way, that had been worse than Lord Chelsted’s screaming. “We are sworn to protect her as well,” Jaime had finally been driven to say. “We are,” Darry allowed, “but not from him.” - A Feast for Crows. We're all entitled to our opinions, and rights to like or dislike characters (I personally, am not a fan of House Stark), but that doesn't mean we have to discredit all that a character has done. Jaime did save lives, even if he couldn't save the lives of Brandon and Rickard. There's still yet caches of wildfire around King's Landing, that risk still ever present - but if it hadn't been for Jaime's actions during the Sack of King's Landing, there would be nothing left of the city and it's inhabitants.
God-Emperor of Mankind Regardless, in the end Brandon brought his death on himself. Going to King's Landing and calling out for Rhaegar to come out and die was hardly a wise choice. He knew what Aerys was like.
I think this is interesting though, because in the books you can tell that Ned's dislike of Jaime really rattles him - he has to tell himself that Ned's a dishonourable hypocrite, because he fathered a bastard. However, Ned keeping Jon actually makes him more honourable than ever, and it means that he succeeded in doing what Jaime didn't (his one regret): saving and protecting a Targaryen child.
@@loriannwhite8384 he didn't father a bastard in the time of his marriage (that we know of), but Ned was very likely romantically connected to Ashara Dayne. And we know that Lady Dayne had a stillborn daughter and "Looked to Stark" instead of her besotted friend, Ser Barristan.
What’s so sad is that Catelyn never learned the truth about Jon Snow. Ned was so honorable he was willing to tarnish his reputation to protect Jon. Truly a great sacrifice.
Yep. Unfortunately as Jamie says in this scene,catelyn is way too honest with her feelings. Even if Ned told her the truth she would have eventually revealed his secret, probably in a moment of anger and Robert would have killed Jon.
Catelyn was my least favorite character even more so than Joffrey or Ramsay honestly, Catelyn did so much to doom house stark... Taking Tyrion prisoner...setting Jaime free..letting Robb marry Talisa, and she's so naive in the grand scheme of things, she carries herself as if she's the honorable one and has the moral high ground when Jaime is more honorable than Catelyn can ever know and be , I just think it's a shame Catelyn never got to be enlightened the way Brienne did
@@olofacosta3192 honestly I don’t think she would do that, knowing the truth would allow her to lose some of the resentment, and I could see her fully adopting Jon
@@Ben-vg6ox Jaime being more honorable than Catelyn? Y'all forgot that the "honorable" Jaime pushed an innocent kid down a tower to avoid his incest being discovered. And that's just one of "things he do for love" that we got to see. Yes, he betrayed his vows and killed the mad king. But when his own son became the Mad King, he didn't intervene. Not even once. Is he Loyal ? He sure is, have morals ? Seems like he do. Honorable? Absolutely not. Brienne understood this : Jaime was not the dishonorable piece of sh*t that people believed him to be. He was only a dishonorable man that throwed his reputation away for the sake of morals once.
@@kayd6572In fairness to the bit about Joffrey, a good chunk of the crazy shit he did was when Jaime was outside of King’s Landing. In this cell, or otherwise occupied. Unless I’m misremembering be only returned after Margaery arrived who at that point was doing a fairly reasonable job at manipulating (reigning in, whatever you want to call it) him.
Gotta love the deconstruction of Knights in this series. People Shit on Jaime for killing a psychopath, yet laud Knights like Barristan for quietly following orders. Hilarious.
NC Clearly you do not understand that following a mad king's order to butcher innocents, and following the word of God, were not mutually exclusive to the knight of the time. Just read about the crusades.
This is arguably one of the best scenes in GoT. I cannot get the line "Here's to Aerys Targaryen, second of his name, Lord of the Seven Kingdoms, Protector of the Realm.. and to the sword I shoved in his back." It's just.. it's delivered PHENOMENALLY and blows my mind every single time!
When they stopped using GRRM's plots, cut characters who were important later and started doing their own crappy fan fiction(I don't think Cleganebowl would ever happen in ASOIAF), the show went downhill.
Nikolaj was the best possible casting choice for Jaime Lannister. Every facet of his persona captured flawlessly and projected through the screen effortlessly. I mean, the whole cast was great but Nikolaj as Jaime is near the top for me.
Jaime: What was the name of that bastard he fathered? Catelyn: Brienne! Jaime: No, that wasn't it. ahh Jaime kills me you just can't help but like him.
@@Supernatural3878 Hey that's what Dumb and Dumber showed, It's not proven in the books whether Jon is actually Targaryen or not! He might very well be Ned's bastard!
@Niranjan Rajesh G R R Martin was not involved with GOT after season 4, and everyone in the fandom knows that D & D never got a clear answer from Martin, all he said was it could be an option that Jon's true parents COULD be Rhaegar and Lyanna! He didn't give a 100% explicit answer! Let's just wait for the books if he ever plans to finish them!😂😂 GOT was shit after Tywin's death! The writing quality went down the gutter and no one cared for the plot!💯💯
@Niranjan Rajesh Bro you really believe what Dumb and Dumber say? We have never heard from Martin's own mouth, it was always the 2 that said anything about plot! For all I know they could be lying! After season 7 and 8 I don't believe them one bit!
Jaime is an evil piece of shit but he's also right about basically everything he says here. In three minutes he completely deconstructs how absurd, hypocritical, unjust, illogical, and contradictory the entire feudal society of Westeros is. And despite all of the terrible deeds Jaime's done in his life, the one thing everyone hates him for (slaying the king) was ironically his noblest act and probably saved the Seven Kingdoms from complete annihilation. He became a pariah for being the only person willing to murder a tyrant that most of the country wanted dead anyway.
Jaime was morally grey not evil. The worst thing he did was attempt to kill Bran but if he hasn’t his entire family including his own kids would have been executed. Most people would probably choose a stranger child of a family that dislikes you to die over your own kids
At God Emperor: Attempted murderer?!? Pretty sure Jaime has killed well over a hundred men in his life..he is a practiced murderer lol As far as Neds brother and father...Jaime was a teenage kings guard at the time...the hell was he supposed to do? He killed the mad king because Tywin was sacking the city and Kings landing was lit with wildfire and aerys had his hand(pyromancer) about to burn it. Nobody around to stop Aerys but him...there wasn't 500 ment watching like when Rickard and Brandon died....Jaime couldn't do f**k all there. Let's get real
+TheFirstHunter he did kill the pyromancer but i still side eye the whole thing like im sure he felt pressured and everything but he was a kings guard and an excellent fighter which means he can think quickly why didnt he stop aerys in other ways? putting a sword through him was hardly the only way to stop a fragile old king from ordering someone to burn kings landing down
Kingslayer64 The point is that he should never have been in that position. He should have either stood up for the realm well before the sack of king's landing. He sat by and watched all the mad king's shit happen and only when he was alone in a room, he the only kingsguard (in fact, the only armed man) present, with only the pyromancer and the king did he decide to do something. Ned agrees when he says "You served him well, when serving was safe" and Jaime is visibly shaken by it - that's because Jaime knows it to be true just as well as Ned and the rest of the realm.
how is being randonly insulting and rude "badass"?? it was hardly even clever. he's done plenty of badass things in his life, but his shitty attitude & lack of respect weren't any of them
He's right about everything in this conversation... except for Ned cheating on his wife (but it's not like he was the only one in the unknown, is it ?)
Ne he isn't. That just show you who Jaime was. He had several oath. Protect his familly, protect his king, protect his kings subject. The latter two were the Oath he took when he became a knight of the kings guard, the first one is his familly oath. In the end, he chose the first one. Only killing the mad king when he asked to bring him his father's head. So there goes the "Jaime wanted to protect everyone
@@marty2090 Incredible, Ad hominem so quickly. Must've touched a personal hero of yours. Don't delude yourself. It's not wildfire in itself that frightened the young Jaime since it was well known the mad king had some. Nor was it the killing of innocent people since he was already participating even tho begrudgingly, in some of the massacre his king perpetrated. It was the idea that in his defeat, the mad king wanted everyone to die in wildfire including Jaime's father and familly. Now let me ask you a question. Take out the wildfire and the death of the mad king. Once Tywin reached the Throne and Jaime would've had to face-off his own father in order to defend the King. Do you think he would've killed Tywin ? Do you believe that Jaime Lannister would've slayed with his bare hand his own father to keep his oath ?
"Where did you find that beast?" I don't remember this being in the books but I sense GRRM's hand in it. Jamie is the beauty and Brienne is the beast in a wonderful twist of the original story and mister Martin absolutely loves that story.
GRRM doesn't get to have all the credit. D&D wrote some amazing scenes. The ladder dialog. Alot of scenes with Arya and the Hound. They aren't idiots. Just assholes for rushing and basically quitting.
@@el34glo59 they're good when they have a foundation,but when they try to add too much of their own ideas,shit goes down the toilet. Just look at the creative decisions in X-Men origins Wolverine lol
Season 2 was honestly so great for getting to see that Tyrion wasn't the only verbally clever one in the family. Jaime gets written off as the golden boy with a sword, but he's wicked smart just like his siblings.
Lord Rickard Stark (Ned's father) was the one that was burned alive by the mad king. While Brandon Stark strangled himself trying to rescue his father.
I love how Jaime responds to Catelyn spitting Kingslayer at him. He's heard it for seventeen years over and over and I can imagine how sick of it he is. They say it like the king he killed was some kind of saint when in reality Jaime was doing the world and more immediately the people of Kings Landing a favor by stabbing Aerys in the back
***** Jaime had a keen sense of the past and how the present might affect the future (after his experience with the mad king, and how it forced him to realize that the 'absolute' fulfillment of oaths could prove impossible...that fulfilling one aspect of an oath - e.g., protecting the innocent - could destroy any chance of fulfilling another - e.g., protecting your king). The Starks were all just preoccupied with the present...and were rather narrow-minded in their view of honor (considering it strictly black and white, while Jaime's experiences had forced him to recognize a vast grey area).
I think Catelyn was a very flawed character. Her darker side evident in her hatred of Jon Snow. Jon never hurt her family, only her pride. In the end, it is Catelyns idea of family that is her downfall. She trusts Littlefinger and sees him as a brother; big mistake.
I think Catelyn was a very flawed character. Her darker side evident in her hatred of Jon Snow. Jon never hurt her family, only her pride. In the end, it is Catelyns idea of family that is her downfall. She trusts Littlefinger and sees him as a brother; big mistake.
It makes her human. We are all flawed, we make wrong choices, we say wrong things, we hate and love wrong people. Which is why she is such an engaging character.
in novels I hated her more, mostly because she treated Tyrion like an animal. She hated him simply because he was ugly and because he was Lannister that was enough reason to believe he was to blame for Bran accident. In novel we could see what disgust she felt toward him, even though she barely known him.
Jamie's troll game is superb here, especially since everything he says in this scene is true. Well, except for the part about Ned fathering a bastard, but everyone mistakenly believed that, so we'll let it slide.
"Who wants to die defending a Lannister?" Oh, Brienne, that statement didn't age well at all. Also, who would've thought such an incredible love story begins with "Is that a woman?"
They actually split their conversation in the book to two parts, excluded Jaime's inquiries about what's going on in the realm and all, and dumbed a bit down. I remember that dialogue of them. I mean, it was considerably longer than what they had adapted to the show. Even the lines they put here are simplified . ''I told you, there are no men like me. Answer me this, Lady Stark: Did your Ned ever tell you the manner of his father's death? Or his brother's?'' ''They strangled Brandon while his father watched, and then killed Lord Rickard as well'' An ugly tale and sixteen years old. Why was he asking about it now? ''Killed, yes, but how?'' ''The cord or the axe, I suppose.'' Jaime took a swallow, wiped his mouth. ''No doubt Ned wished to spare you. His sweet young bride, if not quite a maiden. Well, you wanted the truth. ask me. We made a bargain, I can deny you nothing. Ask.'' ''Dead is dead'' I do not want to know this. ''Brandon was different from his brother, wasn't he? He had blood in his veins instead of cold water. More like me.'' 'Brandon was nothing like you.'' ''If you say so. You and he were to wed.'' ''He was on his way to Riverrun when he heard about Lyanna, and went to King's landing instead. It was a rash thing to do.'' She remembered how her own father had raged when the news had been brought to Riverrun The gallant fool, was what he called Brandon. Jaime poured the last cup of the wine. ''He rode into the Red Keep with a few companions, shouting for Prince Rhaegar to come out and die. But Rhaegar wasn't there. Aerys sent his guards to arrest them all for plotting his son's murder. The others were lords' sons too, it seems to me.'' ''Aerys accused them of treason and summoned their fathers to court to answer the charge, with the sons as hostages. When they came, he had them murdered without trial. Fathers and sons both.'' ''There were trials. Of a sort. Lord Rickard demanded trial by combat, and the King granted the request. Stark armored himself as for battle, thinking to duel one of the Kingsguard. Me, perhaps. Instead, they took him to the throne room and suspended him from the rafters while two of Aerys' pyromancers kindled a blaze beneath him. The king told him that fire was the champion of House Targaryen. So all Lord Rickard needed to do to prove himself innocent of treason was... well, not burn. When the fire was blazing, Brandon was brought in. His hands were chained behind his back, and around his neck was a wet leathern cord attached to a device the king had brought from Tyrosh. His legs were left free, though, and his longsword was set down just beyond his reach. The pyromancers roasted Lord Rickard slowly, banking and fanning that fire carefully to get a nice even heat. His cloak caught first, and then his surcoat, and soon he wore nothing but metal and ashes. Next he would start to cook, Aerys promised... unless his son could free him. Brandon tried, but the more he struggled, the tighter the cord constricted around his throat. In the end, he strangled himself. As for Lord Rickard, the steel of his breastplate turned cherry-red before the end, and his gold melted off his spurs and dripped down into the fire. I stood at the foot of the Iron Throne in my white armor and white cloak, filling my head with thoughts of Cersei. After, Gerold Hightower himself took me aside and said to me, _You swore a vow to guard the king, not to judge him_ That was the White Bull, loyal to the end and a better man than me, all agree.'' ''Aerys was mad, the whole realm knew it, but if you would have me believe you slew him to avenge Brandon Stark..'' ''I made no such claim. The Starks were nothing to me. I will say, I think it passing of that I am loved by one for a kindness I never did, and reviled by so many for my finest act. At Robert's coronation, I was made to kneel at the royal feet beside Grand Maester Pycelle and Varys the eunuch, so that he might _forgive_ us our crimes before he took us into his service. As for your Ned, he should have kissed the hand that slew Aerys, but he preferred to scorn the arse he found sitting on Robert's throne. I think Ned Stark loved Robert better than he ever loved his brother or his father... or even you,, my lady. He was never unfaithful to Robert, was he?''
@@PedroLucas-mg5je They usually discluded pretty much anything. They completely ignored most of magical things. They never explained anything. What this show was focused was the Red Wedding and its aftermath. I'm sure D&D were just amazed by how books built up to that point and how dazzling a story it is But after that, they were just clueless. They did not establish anything that can match the expansion of the world in book 5 and they basically skipped %80 of Dance of Dragons
***** Oh Yes. The great Lyanna & Rhaegar myth of being Jon Snows true parents that is yet to be confirmed by Mr. George Martin. Either way Jaime stung Cat good and proper with that one.
Senate300 the fuck? Have you watched the show? Jon is aegon the son of lyanna not elia lol. In the books aegon might be Elias son but Jon is the son of rhaegar and lyanna.
Arry Yep. Every episode in fact. Elias and Rhaegars. Until GRRM releases Winds of Winter(probably in the next century) I'll be taking the shows fan fiction with a pinch of salt. I don't think for one moment its that simple with George Martin. It never is. Still, I'll never understand why Ned couldn't trust Cat with the truth.
Lucas Rodrigues We'll just have to wait and see won't we. If D&D guessed right or went with the theory that was most popular. After all, I wouldn't put it past GRRM to spit in our faces with something different. Like the Ashara Dayne theory. Which would make no sense as he killed her brother, Arthur at the tower of joy.
i know he is gonna feel pretty stupid if jon snow does turn out to be rhaegar son that would mean that not only did ned not cheat on catelyn but also ned would have technically been doing jaime job all this time while jaime just been banging his sister
heyheyheyheyheyhey76 why does everyone hate cat so much for how she treated jon compared to what tywin did to tyrion and what cercei did to roberts bastards and what stannis did to his daughter cat is a freaking saint
Catelyn: "You've forsaken every vow you ever swore" ... "You're a man without honor." *Seasons Later* Jaime: *goes to the Wall to protect against the Night King with the Starks against the wishes of Cersei because he PROMISED*
Jaime's conclusion was always honor to the innocent and the weak, he didn't kill the mad king until after it became 1000% clear he was going to burn kings landing down to the ground along with everyone in it, he jumped into the bear pit because Brienne had a wooden sword, he went all the way up to winterfell and defied cersei because he wanted to defend the world from the whites, in the end it was always "honor to the innocent" first and "doing cersei" second
It's so fun to come back to this scene, because you see that the person Jaime thought the least of ended up meaning the most to him... All this disdain and rudeness towards Brienne, and yet he ended up respecting and caring for her more than pretty much everyone in his life. He trusts her word more than anyone's, and she's one of the few people that truly trusts his. You'd never have though he'd risk his life to defend her, or look utterly heartbroken every time they had to part ways (if you hadn't read the books).
@@a.sheremet4522People can love more than one person. He loved Brienne, just as he loved Cersei (and Tyrion, romantic love is not the only meaningful love). But Brienne was assuredly safe and in good company while Cersei was alone and facing eminent death -- so he made a call. He broke Brienne's heart to do so, but sometimes that's just the way the cookie crumbles. He had no doubt she would recover and thrive, and that's exactly what she did -- that's the faith and respect he has in her, exactly as I talked about in my OP.
@@sonozaki0000 Oh come ON! He left her just because he chose Cersei, that's all. You try to make it more complex than it was. Yes, he loved her in a way but not more than everyone (As you claimed in your OP), he didn't think about her at all when he left her because THAT'S how the cookie crumbles. If he ''respected'' her, he wouldn't bang her just to leave her. Good for you for romanticizing selfish acts but come on. He slept with her, realized he still has hots for Cersei and leaves Brienne behind - THAT'S HOW THE COOKIE CRUMBLES. Also, you made it sound that he absolutely ''had'' to break her heart, that's toxic and twisted, he didn't have to, he CHOSE to. How nice it must be living in a fairy tale
Fun facts: Jaime kills karstarks, karstarks want him dead end up betraying their lord and align with the Lannisters Dorne, mountain kills martell, sand snakes want revenge end up killing all the Martells Baratheons hate lanisters but stannis kills renly Every mayor household in Got has ended up weakening its self by inner conflict
+BOSIE321 His daughter plotted something crazy with a kings guard she was sleeping with and her plan failed. because in the books Doran is smart and a chivase master. he is good at strategy.
Ironically, I couldn't have hated him more back then. I thought it was so weird how popular he was with audiences. I didn't start liking him until around when he and Brienne began working together, and now he's one of my favorites. He's gorgeous but I wouldn't say I'm in love tho 😂
1:50 "What if the king massacres the innocent?" So much backstory behind that 1 line, just like in season 1 when he tells Robert that the king had been saying the same thing for hours: "Burn them all".
The greatness of Catelyn Stark: even though Jaime humiliated her in the worst way, she releases him in the desperate attempt to save her daughters. According to many, there was a mistake, but it is clear that kingslayer was about to die, the only valuable hostage, the last possibility to bring her daughters back. I believe no mother would do otherwise, and I do not blame Cat for that.
She should've convinced Robb to do a better job of protecting Jaime. It's not like this was the first time in history that a hated prisoner needed to be kept alive.
+Mikayel Dobrovolski The converse point is that Ned was already married so if Jon was his bastard then he broke his vows to his wife (the converse to that is that Jaime made an oath to never father children full stop).
Agreed, was more just pointing out that the 'who was more honourable' question was more grey if Ned had had Jon. He almost certainly didn't so it's a moot point.
Lmao even if it isn't true (which it has now proven that it is) he would still be 1000x times more honorable than Jaime. You're defending a kinslayer, sister fucker and an attempted child murderer.
AzzRaze kingslayer* And that was a good thing. Jaime saved hundreds of thousands of lives in exchange for a life of mockery. He has more honour than the vast majority of main characters who are still breathing, both books and show.
Jaime went from this to the man who Knights Brienne. That’s character development. *Edit* Well all that character development was thrown into the trash lmao
It wasn't. He was still the man who knighted Brienne when he left her. He just couldn't bear the thought of his sister dying alone, no matter how much he had come to disdain her. That's why he makes all those self-loathing comments to Brienne when he leaves.
see i don’t think jamie is serious in this situation. i see him being an asshole and terrible person as a defence mechanism. like becoming the monster they already think he is
You gotta love how hypocritical Ned and Catelyn were about Jaime: they had their father, brother and betrothed killed in a horrible way by The Mad King yet they look down and hate as much (or even more) the guy who killed him.
@@janellejulianajoy Definitely hypocritical. See Catelyn's story about Jon getting the pox. This is putting aside all the judgemental thoughts Catelyn has in her POV chapters. Is it human? Yes, but it's an issue when you put on a pretence of inherent higher standards.
@@josesesade5732 If you put it this way, to save Sansa, Ned chose to declare to a square full of people that Joffrey was the one true king. Had he sticked to his guns and "been honourable to the end", he shouldn't have done that. Sometimes circumstances suggest that honour should be put aside for practical reasons. Ned had his, and so did Jaime.
Jaime may be the most dynamic character in GoT. His arc (season 8 notwithstanding) is incredible and his backstory's reputation really shines a light on the lazy judgmental hypocrisy of people.
Ripleyw Snipley Please keep watching the show, as Brienne's circumstances change, a lot. While I am an idiot, I'm not so horrible to spoil this for you. Enjoy
+Patrick Perlas Wow you are truly a saint.. I would have told his dumb ass everything AND cussed him out... He had no reason to call you an idiot rofl...
LOVED Jamie back in season 1 and 2; he was so witty and chirpy, much like Tyrion- always having the last word. Yet now he seems to have gotten a bit more 'boring'. I want a script for season 6 that brings back his awesome witty personalty.
photogonboard You're right, I believe him and Jon Snow are the most developed characters of this series (specially Jon if you compare his behaviour from season to season).
Carlos Fermín The actor Kit Harrington couldn't carry Nikolaj's piss bucket with the shit level of acting no emoting fat placid faced dullard portrayal he gives for Jon Snow. It makes me SICK because they only hired him because they couldn't get their hands on Aidan Turner from BBC3 Being Human who got quickly scooped by Jackson for The Hobbit. The 'IT' hot male actors from Britain of this era are young dark curly haired complectioned guys and scraping the barrel for one to hold a spot worked fine for D&D since 90% of the rest of their cast are stellar to make crap actors like Emily Clarke and Harrington seem capable. They scooped up Adams for Star Wars for the dark curly hot guy looks.
Jaimie is really the best :D favourite character in GOT. fuck who doesnt like him. and fuck them again. cuz everyone has mistakes but they stand like they dont have mistakes. and saying jaimie pushed a boy. lol he regret for it so no problem left.
Jaime is just lashing out here. I sympathize with him but I sympathize with Catelyn more. These are incredibly hurtful things he's stating, not realizing how truly they resemble her own doubts.
I fucking hate catelyn - she deserves no sympathy her disgraceful treatment of Jon Snow makes her such a disgusting excuse for a human being that I enjoyed seeing her death in the red wedding. Made me very happy.
Jaime didn't actually trigger Catelyn here. She came here with an objective and she left with that objective fulfilled. She had already made up her mind before Jaime even tried to instigate her in any way. Jaime thinks that he's goading her into killing him or whatever, but actually his honesty just strengthened Catelyn's belief that her decision to release him would save her daughters as Jaime had "some sort" of honour (in Catelyn's mind) even though he is the Kingslayer.
It's always interesting how many people hate on Catelyn. She made a lot of bad move sure, but she represents this strong, undying maternal love. She is willing to sacrifice everything and anything for Sansa and Arya, it is definitely selfish compared to Rickard's sacrifice sure and detrimental to the war, but her motherly love for her children reigns supreme to that in her eyes. Even the way she physically breaks down when Jaime admits he pushed Bran out the window, it's like she puts this tough exterior, but her children are her eternal soft spot, and the actress did a phenomenal job in portraying that when Cat begs Walder Frey to let Robb go. Also, with Jon Snow, she is human, people dismiss her and criticize her, but the reality is when you deeply love someone, it is incredibly tough to be reminded everyday that they cheated on you, just like Jaime said. And while it is more Ned' fault, it's normal for her to give him the benefit of the doubt and take it all out on Jon, rather than vica versa. I felt like she knew how wrong it was, but it was just a challenge she could never overcome, and showed how deeply human she was. To me, she is one of the best and most tragic characters of the series, a perfect embodiment of the power of a mother.
+Sammy Boy Well that's why her and Ned made such a good match. Ned got killed because he trusted the wrong people and believed they were as honorable as him. He has an even more blind sense of honor as well.
***** I agree. I'm so glad that the "good guys" don't always win in game of thrones. I wish Ned and Cat were alive and they're good people but i like how the show is realistic ad it shows that being an honorable person doesn't give you an advantage; it gives you a disadvantage because you're not willing to do what a dishonorable person would.
***** Lets see how Rickon turns out. He has seen enough crap to wash off the idealistic crap out of his young soul. Perhaps he may be the lone smart one. Perhaps even a Tywin Lannister of the Stark line. Extinguish the treacherous houses and all...
It's amazing to go back and watch all the scenes about Ned cheating on catelyn . It shows that Ned loved his sister and her son enough to not care if everyone believed he cheated on his wife. He was willing to carry that hatred from other people in order to protect his sister's baby. I wish there were more scenes in the show that emphasize just how loving of a brother Ned was to his sister
and this is the part when I started to love Jaime. the questions he asks ... just brilliant! and yes, he has honor in his own way. in the book he doesn;t kill cleo lannister and at harrenhal, after loosing his hand, he receives a whore and he refuses her thinking at cersei.
I really like how Cat hates him and when he starts to make sense she has to say things like kingslayer and man without honor to convince herself he is as bad as she thinks he is and when he sees that she gets it but chooses to ignore it he attacks her on a personal level with the Ned thing to show that honour is bs and even the most honourable has in some way forsaken his honour
It's a sad thing that people never care to look at the whole thing from a Lannister point of view. We are introduced to the story with Stark ideals and POV, and thus believe that Lannisters are evil. In fact, no-one is truly good in the world of Ice and Fire...
True, but the Lannisters are FAR more closer to the evil side then the Starks. No one may be truly good, but there's only so much evil you can be willing to accept. Far as I'm concerned,Jaime deserved to get his sword-hand cut off.
AxelXGabriel That's why everything a character does whether it's Tyrion, Cersei, Tywin, the Starks, etc., etc, there will always be consequences for their actions.
Jaime sought of took those words to heart I believe. 1 reason of 5 he turned his leaf around from being an asshole. 1. Caitlyn spoke the truth when he said he was a "Man Without Honour" 2. The fact that Cat still let him go after what he said. 3. His lose of his hand and time to think about what he'll be without it. 4. Having to face his foes with wit instead of brawn 5. Keeping an Oath to a Woman and Man he secretly truly respects.
I forgot how good the early seasons were. The balls of Jamie. Poor old dead ned who else literally went when he said that ooooo fuck me he went there 😅
so many vows, they make you swear and swear, defend the king obey the king obey your father protect the innocent defend the weak, what if your father despises the king, what if the king massacres the innocent it's too much no matter what you do your forsaking one vow or the other
Anyone that watch this scene would think the Starks has not argument at all against the Lannisters. All Catelyn can come up with are insults: "Kinglsayer", "Man Without Honor", "You're no knight"...Got it. Anything more elaborated, please? Jaime Lannister OWNS it!
This and obviously him and briene in the baths are some of my favorite jamie moments in the books and show. This scene is missing my favorite line from him though because the show didn't want to focus on the jamie/tyrion/tysha dilemma for some reason. But my favorite line by jame is "i find it passing odd that I'm reviled by all for my finest act, and loved by one for a kindness i never showed" that along with the spot on condemnation of bullshit oaths just won me over the first time i read it. I didn't fully know the tysha part on the first go around, but boy howdy does it HIT on rereads.
This conversation sums up Jamie's character perfectly. He has lost his faith in honor. His complex situation makes it so he will be dishonorable in some fashion. He has seen how men who others call honorable still have flaws or do disgraceful things, so he has dropped the pretense and embraced a lack of honor.
Jamie said Cerseis the only woman hes ever slept with. Waw im impressed. It s a shame Cersei can't say the same. I wonder if he knows about Lancel and her
Holy cow I just had a revelation (keep in mind I’m getting into this show atm). Ned Stark also had to break his honor to Catelyn, Robert, and anyone else who asked about Jon in order to protect him. Very similar to how Jaime had to break his honor to protect his father, the people and others. Idk if I understood that correctly. Please let me know if I’m missing something
And brienne escorted Jaime back to kingslanding completely unharmed, he gave Sansa over to brienne and she found Arya on the way back to riverrun with Sansa and made it just in time to enjoy uncle Edmure’s wedding before they returned home to winterfell and lived out the rest of their days peacefully in their home land of the north