Game of Thrones: The Philosophy of the Finale 

That Tyrion/Jon scene sounds like a gamer attempting every single mutually contradictory branch of a dialogue tree until they find the one the NPC responds to

The closing the book on wet ink act is actually a good metaphor for the series though

The ending really impressed me, I’ve never seen an ending to a series capable of retroactively ruining an entire series as thoroughly as game of thrones, multiple times I’ve thought about rewatching the series but decided not to because I know how little any of the early stuff means and where it inevitably ends up

Historians will look back on season 8 and remember it as the last time our civilization was truly united about anything.

Is today some kind of an anniversary? Alt Shift X posting hour-long video on Tyrion and now Preston posting this. Made my evening.

I adore how Preston left out his, "I'm probably wrong about half of this" line at the end.

My god, the lack of new book material has driven him back to the dragon show! Please George! Help this poor man! Release Winds of Winter as soon as you can! Relieve his suffering!!

"Everything past season 4 was drivel". SAY IT!!

"They don't get to choose" then later the Council says the same to Sam laughing at him when he suggested the people choose their own leader.

Back are we and

I doubt that D&D even tried to break down Tyrion and Jon's conversation as you have done. They would first have to look up at least Deontology in a dictionary -:))

How does this rejection of religion and embrace of choice reconcile with the ultimate decision everyone made to use their vaunted existential human freedom to elect an Old God who is incapable of experiencing personal freedom or appreciating the freedom of others to imbue him with total temporal authority over everyone? Or how does it square with his indifference toward his job?

GRRM PLANNED IT ALL

Hey Preston, Just wanted to thank you for introducing me to the 1000 worlds through your bookclub. The works mean so much to me, and i would've never read them if It wasn't for you.

Just noticing now how much Tyrion's persuasion of Jon mirrors Varys' manipulation of Ed

When trying to imagine will happen in the remaining books of ASOIAF, it is important to consider the author and his views on war, deities, and life in general, along with knowing some mythical aspects that definitely are present in his writing, to have a glimmer of hope at figuring out even smallest parts of what is to come. Knowing this, then looking at the hints he's given in the text, can help. But it is utmost important to remember that GRRM said no gods will be making an appearance in the story. The people within the story will act in mythically identifiable ways, but the end of the story will most likely be more in line with what was said in this video. After all is said and done, people will know the deities they relied upon have no effect in this story. Which makes trying to decide where magic comes from all the more fascinating an exercise.

I hate the final season as well. I tolerated seasons 5-7, even though each got progressively worse. And just as I saw the pilot episode on the day it came out and at the very hour it premiered, I saw the finale the same way. Except when I saw the pilot I was in awe and wonder, and seeing the finale left me feeling empty and pure disappointment. If I was forced to make any sense of the finale, which is one of the most difficult things to do, I would say the finale parallels Jon and Ned's choices as "honor-bond" men. Whereas Ned did take part in overthrowing the Mad King, he judged Jaime for personally killing the Mad King, despite never being told nor considering the fact that perhaps there was a good reason for killing the King. He, like the others, called Jaime 'kingslayer' and having no honor. Ironically, it was honor that killed Ned. In the case of Jon, after much thought, personally kills the "Mad Queen," believing it was the 'honorable' thing to do - and this was after his 'queen' did what her father failed to do. It was through honor that led to Jon killing Daenerys. They both saw honor in a different light. Makes me wonder if Ned would've judged Jon for what he did, and if so, would he still judge Jaime.

Season 8 rationalizing reminds me of the joke about the kid digging through the giant manure pile in the hope of finding the pony in there somewhere.

it took about 5 minutes into this video before i realized that besides the night of the finale i never even went back to give this episode a second chance. it so thoroughly and quickly put the series in the fucking grave

There's something deeply funny about Preston, who was the first big trasher of the show that I saw on RU-vid (for more than just not being the book) coming here posting positives on the finale. Which was so bad even the most sycophantic fans were critical of. And also, I think you have a point about some remnants of a goal present in that episode. I can see a good link to varys trying to convince ned to drop his unyielding honor in the scene with Tyrion. And some premise to Dany claiming to be God by removing choice, which Jon doesn't believe in since he literally has already died.

Somehow Preston managed to find some rare earth metal in a sewer of an episode. The microchip manufacturers could hire you to help with the shortage

Leave it to Preston to find the eighth-grade themes in the finale written by the anti-theme lads.

I could listen to Preston talk about season 8 for another couple years

How, how, how? How can you make this episode have meaning and substance. Absolutely amazing!

The philosophy was “These Performances, These Faces” - vanity shots of celebrity actors to pander for awards, for the show runners to boost their own profiles as they ran off to do Star Wars movies.

This scene "best season ever" gets me every time...its just so fucking obvious xD

Martin needs to finish book 6 and then set up book 7 as a choose-your-own-adventure style book to be completed in a vast number of ways by his fans.

Ah, a discussion of Ethics! My favorite! It should be noted that Utilitarianism (Greatest Good for the Greatest Number) is a branch of consequentialism, as is Ethical Egoism (Greatest Good for Me). Also, I'm sure we will one day get to finish the A Song of Ice and Fire books. We just need to make sure to hire a Necromancer. First to reanimate George after he kicks it so he can continue writing. And then to reanimate the rest of us so that we can read it when he is finally finished with it.

I appreciate the philosophy angle, having done a thesis on modern policing involving deontology, utilitarianism, and Aristotelian ethics, I'm not sure the show-runners have heard of any of those (maybe utilitarianism?) even if the thematic angles are there. Love the vid though, as usual. You're awesome, Preston.

"Throwing duty at a wall and hoping it sticks" is incredible!

Still haven't been able to rewatch but I will choo choo choose to watch this 🚂

17:25 'Were they really thinking about moral philosophy?' No! Don't forget D&D's script for this episode refers to the Iron Throne in its burning by Drogon as just a 'dumb bystander'... Yes, it was NOT burnt on purpose; there is NO (intended) symbolism behind it... We - the fans - come up with symbolism to rationalize the scene, as we were expected to do by the writers (they relied on this get-out-of-jail-free card in many occasions during the last four seasons of the show). The writers themselves did not put in such effort. They probably included this scene just because they thought it looked cool - nothing more, nothing less.

Honestly, I would've applauded the philosphy in this if it didn't follow 8 seasons and 3 episodes of Daenerys not throwing tantrums at the very worst points of her life before suddenly going genocide when at the best moment of her life Also if they didn't turn the whole "choosing a king" scene into "hey story ish importent gib me awardz" EDIT: Never mind, the philosphy is even worse than i remember EDIT2: Hey wait a minute, Daenerys is a metaphor for Undertale players

Thanks for new content. Back to forgetting the final seasons ever happened

Actually I'd like to point out that Jon probably did kill Dany to protect his family. His and Tyrion's convo led up to the topic that Arya and Sansa don't get to choose, but Jon does. It's no coincidence that what sinks Dany is her saying people don't get to choose. Jon realizes that Sansa and Arya truly are in danger and that there is no reasoning with Dany. In the end it really was love is the death of duty. Jon kept, stupidly, stating that Dany was his queen. His duty was to her. He defended her till the end. His love for his family was what sealed the deal.

S5 is definitely when the show went off the rails. The frustrating thing is, the groundwork for the failures of S8 were there in S5, but every time people called them out and warned where the show was headed, they were shouted down by the legions of fans (the same fans who would later claim the bad ending came out of nowhere and wonder what happened). The thing I'm talking about, the thing that led the show to such a bad end, is that the showrunners bought into the idea that only shocks mattered. They saw the fan reaction to big shocks such as the red wedding, the purple wedding, the Mountain and the Viper and they took away the entirely wrong idea. They just started adding shocks that came completely out of left field and didn't serve the story in any way whatsoever. This is the reason we get so little set-up for Dany's heel turn in S8, because they only wanted it to be a shock. They didn't care if it served the story or the characters. A slow-burn will she/won't she spanning a season or two, with Dany making more off the rail decisions but seemingly able to justify them before going full villain would have served the story much better, but then people would have been less shocked at her eventual turn, so they had to mostly hide it until a couple of stares in the previous episode. All the pointers of this were present from S5 onwards. Stannis ordering the burning of Shireen out of nowhere (despite a lot of character development to the alternative) with barely a centimetre of snow on the ground and then somehow losing the tactical battle (and don't get me started on "20 good men"). The supposedly new, bolder Sansa only to have her inexplicably thrown to Ramsay by Littlefinger. Barristan just being murdered out of nowhere because they didn't know what to do with his character and they'd gone too long without a shock death. It's really sad to think that if people had actually offered constructive criticism of the show back then, instead of sticking their fingers in their ears and insisting the showrunners knew best, it could have had a course correction and given us some semblance of a satisfying ending that the books likely never will.

"Everything after season 4 was drivel." Been saying this since season 5. It started getting really bad about then, but the last season was an absolute nosedive in quality.

If Martin really isn't done with the books already, he needs to hire Preston as his ghostwriter or something.

about the love is the death of duty line, im pretty sure thats supposed to mean that Jon, to some extent, knows its his duty to prevent Dany from harming people further. His love for her is preventing him from taking up his duty.

Agreed Everything past season 4 went to shit When can we see a animated version of the story that adheres to Martins writing and location descriptions?

8:23 “I know a killer when I see one“ is by far the worst line in the series and beyond.

Wonderful video as always, Preston! Your insights are entertaining and illuminating. I found the last couple of your Brienne videos really profound and thought provoking. Can't wait for your next video!

Over 2 years! I didn't realise how much of a chore watching it was. The source material has so much potential, that I watched it all. I think HBO may be fulfilling George's creative urge. The books are dead, Ser. Ironhand searched everywhere and Varys rattled a fat bag of gold. They're feeding the worms.

D&D "Kind of forgot" that some fans were smarter than they were. I wonder if GRRM made Ryan Condal keep A World of Ice and Fire, The Rogue Prince, the Princess and the Queen and Fire and Blood on set all the time when filming the prequel series so as not to half ass the show.

Preston i just want to say to you, that i love all yours analisis. You have keep the ice and fire alive for me. Always a fan of you, send you love from Argentina my men.

Just heard the statement "the devil and Jesus symbolically in the same episode ". Sufficient for a like, since as an artist, those two visuals were what did the episode in for me

The higher thematic message is that it really sucked !!!

Thank you for sneaking Ralph Wiggum in there, nice palate cleanser.

What I did like about about season 8: score, cinematography, and some good acting. Kit played it perfectly when Jon confronted Dany. You can tell he’s looking for any excuse to not do what he must and it’s torturing him.

I need a friend like Preston in my life. Not to discuss ASOIAF, but daily trials... ❤

An Alt Shift X video AND a Preston video ALL IN THE SAME DAY? YEESSSSS!

The philosophy of adding a thicker black outline to white letters.

Actually I think the philosophy of the finale is a little too obvious, and people hated the finale so much they are preventing themselves from getting it. Rather than casting Jon as a philosopher seeking moral truth, the first two scenes can be very clearly understood when we understand Jon as a human being with his own values, which ultimately come from his father. Like you say Tyrion tries throwing all kinds of arguments at Jon to get him to betray Dany, but the last one (the one about Jon's sisters) is clearly the most powerful, and is the one that gives Jon the most distress (Kit Harrington himself was playing it that way). This is why Dany sinks herself when she says the line "they don't get to choose." Because "what about all the other people who think they know what's good" to Jon, is really his way of trying to determine what will be Dany's response to dissent - specifically from Jon's family. Obviously if you try to view this from the lens purely of moral philosophy, it becomes about choice/free will as an abstract. But when viewed through the lens of a specific character with specific relationships, it's a lot more about those relationships. Yes Jon's experiences with the Freefolk and NW have led him to value free choice to some degree, but it's not like he is turning his back on monarchy as a system. He is merely being put into a position where he has more empathy with the dissenters than the rulers. Also your whole thing about the death of the gods kind of falls flat in the face of Bran (the three eyed raven) being made king, something you seemingly don't want to mention, but is pretty integral to the philosophical resolution of the story.

You nailed it with your comment on freedom as personal growth with respect to society. Thank you. I have been trying to frame it for those who believe in their souls that the left or the right, each in their purest form, would be the *only* way forward. My response has been that nothing any of them are trying to establish will effectively replace what we have with something more just or moral or better for all. What we have ebbs and flows with its justice and effectiveness because it will be impacted by the people who are participating in it. This is true of any method or system, but this one seems to have had the best track record. Nothing previous, nor concurrent, nor potentially in the future does a good enough job at balancing freedom, personal choice, and growth to positively impact their fellow people or the society in which they live. I’m sure that you saw this aspect during your time in the diplomatic corps and the military.

I really appreciate your analysis and interpretation. While I'm always into thematic discussions on topics such as morals and conceptual dialectics in literature, sociology and artistic expression I still have a lot to learn about actual philosophy.

Preston, I think you just explained why we are never going to get the end of ASOIAF from GRRM. If his point was to stamp subjective morality into an epic, timeless tale for the ages he probably needed to reconcile his plot threads before he reached the end of his own generativity psychosocial stage. His entire perspective may have altered too much as he’s grown into an older, “wiser,” anti-war, postmodern intellectual, pseudo-feminist, hippie man. It’s certainly easier to cast off notions of a higher power, or afterlife when you’re young, exceptional, and think you’re smarter than JRRT.

You are so good, so good. Where George leaves leaves us longing for more in the dark, you turn a light on.

Hmmm, I don't know about that point about freedom @14:39. Libertarians don't just value a freedom to do whatever you want as long as it doesn't aggress upon others but they also value the freedom to grow internally as they see fit to better themselves and others (voluntarily).

10 years later from now, if a good video for Game of Thrones pops on my youtube, I'll still click on it. Especially you, Preston Jacobs.

When I was watching this episode, I also noted a theme that was probably in the book outline but forgotten in the show: "Great Men" aren't always "good men," and that messianic figures should come with a warning (á la Dune).

You're right, Tyrion was literally throwing doody at the wall to see what sticks

Thank you for the side-note at approx 14:30 which highlighted "personal responsibility towards society" with respect to personal freedoms. What a ridiculous time to be alive.

I think the "love is the death of duty" line is right out of the books. Didn't the Old Bear or Maester Aemon say that to Jon when he was planning on ditching the Night's Watch? Whatever, the writers are a bunch of failures.

Thanks for this, now got more interested to read and know the philosophical theories.

These philosophy videos are some of your best work.

Speaking about salvaging stuff from the ending, I was agonizing over the BELLS for a while. It came out of nowhere, and D&D trying to justify why they turned Dany into psycho made even less sense. And then it clicked -- who hates dem BELLS? Jon Con! So maybe it's a piece of his story, where HE decides to burn King's Landing, because he spared one city and it didn't work out well for him ("Tywin would have burned that town and every living creature in it")

Proof in the "text" of the show that Jon did not intend to kill Dany when he entered the building is Drogon letting him in, who kind of sizes him up.

Happy to see you continuing your discussion of existentialism.

Great video and analysis. I haven't revisited the finale since the day until now

Thank you for putting Ralph Wiggum in the video

Keep these writing concepts videos coming, very interesting

Preston, you are the best. Keep on doing what you do.

Can we just talk about how the only logical result of the Great Council would have been Sweetrobin getting elected? He's literally the only person present who is not a prisoner, a bastard, a separatist, a kingslayer, a pagan, a commoner, a maister, a woman, crippled, or Dornish, and also has an actual standing army.

I thought I had a boring lunch break ahead of me but Preston uploaded let’s goooo!

I like that we all collectively gave up on seeing the rest of the books

This is such an excellent analysis 🤩

I love It when you come up with content like this

I found the show's end profoundly misanthropic. The fact that they picked bran specifically because he lacked the human characteristics of previous kings (ignoring the fact that he's effectively immortal) just seemed to say "humans are sh*t, we need a tree to keep things in line".

Preston I can't help but wonder what do you think of City of thieves by David Benioff, did you read it?

If Tyrion had any moral commitment or believed any of what he was trying to convince John of, he would have stabbed Dani with his Hand pin instead of throwing it down the stairs. Instead, he is locked up in a prison cell hoping to convince Jon to do the dirty deed. Tyrion could have died ''for the people'' and maybe atoned for the crimes he committed in the past. He only pretends to be the ''most moral man in the universe.''

At 12:14 I felt like I was in a 15 round prizefight. Anything to do with Season 8 makes time slow down. Maybe Preston could do a video using Einstein's theories to explain why it was such shit.

Finally, the take we've all been waiting for. I haven't even watched it yet and i know he's right

I regret that the show was such a trainwreck. Even for such relatively minor consequences as your channel losing potential views, this video itself not getting spread around as much as it deserves to. I think everyone's got over the renewed fantasy genre for the foreseeable future. Time to find the new trend.

Rehabilitate the show's image and undoubtably GRRM will make a character with your name in his last book. Maybe not a pivotal one, but at least one that doesn't have much chance to ruin the theme. I loved the vid, hopefully more will follow on revisiting the show's past seasons with this new outlook.

Love ya Preston. I can not wait until WoW. Not only for the text but for more fuel to your awesome fire!!!

Remember when Tyrion was full ok with innocent people in the riverlands get killed and raped by his Father and says this is war. Or wants to destroy the whole vale. So why all people (in the story) get moral know with Dany? Dany killing innocent people is what happend in the story all the time and no one cares.

Felt like ignoring all the characters developments that they tried pushing (which were also unintelligible) and forcing the season 3 characters to talk to each other as if these events came out of nowhere

I stopped watching the show after season 5 (there were things that annoyed me even in season 2) and I only watched Preston's recaps. And around season 7 I stopped watching them, too. I knew the ending left everyone disappointed but I hadn't heard a line of dialog. And man are they terrible! D&D turned ASOIAF into Avengers, and they tried in only the last episode to somehow get in line with George's vision.

the philosophy of the end of GoT: we finish now, make star wars

By the way Jon stating “ love is the death of duty” actually makes sense because Jon is initially choosing Duty for his queen over love for anyone else AND love for his queen over duty to everyone else. So in that moment he’s actually confirming to Tyrion that his love for Daenerys means the death of his duty to the realms (he does not want to kill her for them)

Everything after season 4 feels like drinking water from an unwashed yogurt bottle.

Last time I was this early this was an original joke or something

"Philosophy!? Something something eight grade, something something book reports." What pisses me off the most is that those bozos actually managed to write quite a few good show-only scenes during the first season. They just stopped giving a fuck when the show got too big to fail and devolved back into overgrown frat boys. So now we are stuck with 4 increasingly shitty seasons and they got banished by the industry from doing any meaningful projects, so nobody gets to be happy.

If Preston can make the finale look good, then maybe the books are not that good either, and the twist is that it was Preston who was the genius all along.

It'll be interesting to see how Brandon Sanderson tackles this when he finishes the series.

Preston... I've never enjoyed that languid speech tone of yours... But. I have to give it to you. This vid is pure gold... the ending is near perfect. Just like Bryenne closing up Jamie's little chapter. Yeap. it is good.

At least D&D didn't go on to ruin starwars. Someone else got that joy.

Ralph's cho-cho at 2:19 caught me off guard

I would’ve sold my soul to the devil to have Preston write the last two or three seasons

I broke out my red wine to watch you attempt to make sense of this.