I've been thinking a bit about Tekken lately. My Twitter: / hqrubbish 2nd channel: / @timesting Catch me live: / hqrubbish #Tekken #Mishimas #Retrospective
in all honesty, wasnt a fan. but hey, im that weird guy who sees something that might be interesting, and gets disapointed to see that the video has nothing to do with it.
That's what they deserve. Tekken is such a complete entity. Sometimes it needs to be seen from a succint angle to make sense. Besides the Mishimas are so boring and haven't changed almost at all, you couldn't make a 30 minute video explaining the boring 50/50 wavu wavu. I'm a Lei main though, Mishimas come across as boring/overpowered to me anyway. It's a Mishima world, other characters are just living in it.
@@eespecialeventsdj they may be boring from a mechanic standpoint(which i heavily disagree by the way), but tekken is more than just mechanics, and the mishima have an incredible story, that is completely diferent from any other fighting game. and belive it or not, that does attract alot of people's atention.
yeah, dont really get the logic behind that one. it feels like he run out of material and decided to add something else that has little to nothing to do with the original idea.
The reason behind the Mishima's lasting appeal is because you get a family of characters. You get a grandfather, a father, and a son. Along with that they range from morally ambiguous to downright evil, so you get to play as the villains and said villains are responsible for the plot.
Not only are they responsible for the plot your sorta led to cheer the villain on. Not even jin is a good person despite his "the ends justify the means" point of view. That said as a kazuya fan you want revenge for what hihachi did to you, as a hihachi man your help bent on killing the literal devil in carnet. Neither one of these people are good. Both want to take over the world itself and have the money and power to do so if not for each other
Honestly as plot goes Tekkens base story is incredible if you can get past the training of marsupials in Martial arts for said world take over... Sometimes it gets a bit much
i think he was originally intended this way but then they made him and law both comic relief forever after Tekken 4 since Tekken 5 pretty much threw any kind of non silliness out the window for the rest of the series
@@reicherwallace6774 tekken 5 was one of the best games in the series but it was also where the story started becoming just about the mishimas how they're all evil assholes including Jin now despite him being almost a heroic character up to that point and everybody else is just there for laughs
@Mikaela I mean it's kinda hard to be the good guy after being betrayed shoot and finding out your bloodline has a bad habit of trying to off each other.
Ryu: Main character with balanced moveset with rather mundane inputs to execute core moves.Rather easy to learn. Kazuya: One of the main characters with a very aggressive fighting style, higher than normal skill requirement and requires precise inputs to unleash his core techniques. Quite hard to use.
It's honestly more bizarre the more you dig into it because kazuya is technically both; his neutral is super risky but his advantage state/momentum is insane
Total anecdote here so I might be wrong; I think the same idea is found in VF with Akira - on the surface; a stoic man in Karate attire (despite using Bajiquan), but is brash and headstrong, while also sporting the highest mechanical difficulty in the cast (just frame knee, no strings outside of extremely complex psuedo hit-grab strings) And, like Kaz, his gameplan is simple, but requires a decent understanding of the mechanics to properly utilise. He's picked very often, despite lit every other char being more geared towards beginners and people looking for intuitive chars.
I think it's more a matter of legacy rather than "completeness" since they've always been pretty much the same the precedent exists for them to consistently be good picks
Always thought Akira Yuki was one of the weirder design for a fighting game protagonist. He's definitely the poster boy for Virtua Fighter and a monster when used properly but good luck actually getting good with him, been trying for at least a decade now and mastered Kazuya's Perfect electric before I got Akira's Teishitsu Dantai to come out even once lol
Akira came to my mind as well when he started talking about main characters that break the "easy Shoto" mold. Another one that I think of is rekka Kyo from KoF '96/'97 onwards. Granted, he was a basic shoto in the first two/three games, but the shift afterwards was insane! He became one of the more unique and advanced characters in the series, and continues to be that way in the latest entries.
Fantastic video. Beautiful editing. And a really nice and sad walk down memory lane.. Been playing since T1 and Kaz has always been my favorite.... Damn I'm getting old
You the funniest part is kazuya has gotten a nerf purely from time. earlier games he has so many main moves compared to the rest of the cast it makes him less predictable. But because they’ve barely updated him he now has the exact opposite going on; he’s got so few moves overall that he’s got a much more predictable movelist.
Mishimas are very great to know solely because 1) It's guaranteed at least 1 Mishima will be in each game, 2) They have moves that are very strong and downright broken with the caveat of high execution, and 3) In every game you will consistently be able to get results, as they all play very similar in every game. Mishimas are also super interesting as the three mains (Devil Jin, Kazuya, Heihachi) all fit different aggression levels. Kazuya is a turtle that waits for opportunity to demolish, Heihachi is a pressuring bully, and Devil Jin is somewhere in the middle.
This might be a big assumption on my part, but I imagine the fact that the Zato player controls 2 characters at once is impressive to most spectators. It is possible a spectator saw Persona 4 Arena and they don't think 2 characters at once is that impressive.
I think it's reasonable to believe people will inherently find the concept of controlling two characters impressive. The idea was moreso to highlight that it isn't at all really possible to grasp which parts of any one sequence will be the bottlenecks execution wise.
Just one correction Ragna is not an Edgelord, he just looks like one. He’s probably the most socially well adjusted and normal fighting game protagonist I’ve ever seen. He also calls out the insane stuff that happens to him every day and the sociopaths that make up his day to day acquaintances.
I was a Ragna main, I'm assuming him having attacks based around Death like Gauntlet Hades, Death Spike, etc and being called Shinigami cursed him from the start.
Whenever I go back to older Tekken games I feel some moves had questionable design choices and that kinda annoy me. Jin's CH WGF in T3... why didn't it act as a launcher? I want to give a worse example; can't quickly recall one atm. However once I get reminded of the funny, silly, broken stuff in the past Tekken games I feel good.
That is an odd decision for sure, I assume it was just a holdover from the old WGF which differed on CH as well. But EWGF not having it really just makes for a weird situation, where you have 3/4 hit states be pretty much identical (normal hit WGF, EWGF and counter hit EWGF) and 1/4 be a massive outlier. Odd
The greatest thing about Tekkens lore is the main characters are evil or generally messed up. It's a deceptively powerful story that's often just not presented as well as it could be. Paul was most interesting when he was washed up broken Paul in t4
I agree with most people here, the title is quite misleading. I appreciate the actual content/information and editing of the video, but the title definitely doesn't reflect the topic at hand.
Kazuya is the reason why I watch tekken in the first place. If haven't seen wave dashing into electric, I would've probably never had checked out tekken. And even when I didn't know that electrics are a just frame input, it already gave a high impact signal just by looking at someone getting hit by it, Mishima's are sick af
One thing I like about Tekken is that the main characters are actually good Like in SF Ryu is always mid yet he's supposed to be this top tier fighter that everyone respects
I'd love to hear your take on the Virtua Fighter Series, especially since it ran concurrently with Tekken for many years as a 3D fighting game. I'm a long-time Guilty Gear player.... and believe it or not, Sol isn't the first character I pick in the roster (maybe he would be in games like Accent Core or Strive), but in the oldest games (GG1 and GGX), it was actually a lot more fun to play characters like Chipp Zanuff, Jam Kuradoberi, Testament, and Justice because of the combo versatility and freedom they held over characters like Sol and Ky. That, of course, doesn't mean they were easier to play as, or to win with... but with Guilty Gear, people didn't actually take the games seriously until GGX onwards, so there was a different environment (not as competitive, but more experimental). I lament the idea that people only care about winning... the people who do are very shallow and would sooner rage quit whenever the game wasn't in their favor. I prefer players who examine a game's characters in-depth and enjoy the whole roster, not just one or two characters.
I can't say I'm much a VF head, so I'll have to leave coverage of that series to those more in the know. I will however say that Taka is objectively the coolest character in that series.
@@HQRubbish did u know that Kazuya's design is similar to VF's early protag design but was change out. Same with Prototype Jack's design in early development of VF but humanoid looking.
So... Is this video about how kazuya is an unorthodox protag, or his it a history break down of Paul's play styles... I'm so confused, is Paul the true main character of Tekken?
I love your channel Friend! Editing is soooooooooooooooooooo good! Btw. I kind of feel like out of all Mishimas, Hiechachi has a bit different identity now. Still in Tekken 3 his moveset was clearly mix between Kazuya and Paul. Something I feel got lost over years. But otherwise, yes Kazuya is the same :)
Sometimes an intro video can be enough, like the intro to tekken 5 would be enough for a lot of fresh players to pick Kazuya or Heihachi as their first mains.
I wouldn't say that because I'll be real with you here a shoto, definitely isn't a way to describe them outside of kaz jinpachi and devil jin none of them have any real projectiles outside of lasers and fireballs and even then they are rarely used to begin with. and unlike most fighting game characters, the main guys are easily the most difficult guys to work with on all-time scale no matter if you go 3D or 2D
as a long time teken player that just start hftf i watched ur tuto video on hftf then saw this video next, being a mishima only player for about 15 years now i was in the obligation to click on it, and boy oh boy the editing was super great and the subject was realy interesting, only 2k views ?? man thats a shame i hope u will get more credit in the tekken scene, main man should do a reaction video on it (maybe try to send him the link) only black point u guessed it the paul part was very very long for a mishima video , but i understand that it was essential to explain ur point. anyway a good chanel discover here u got my follow keep doing good stuff man now i gotta go back to practice my dio , as a mishima player of course i gotta struglle with the hard character and got my ass beat XD see ya man
the reason Kazuya can break the mold is because they introduced Jin, who is more conventional. while they intended for Mishimas to be always easy to pick up, hard to master, I think they choose to not to "dumb down" the control with fillers moves(since they already have a large moveset, and later introduced moved are usually easier to execute) in later games when moving to faster paced online environment is what make them seem "challenging".
I used to be a Hwoarang main but after trying Heihachi I was hooked on him. Hwoarang is easy to use but it gets boring. Pkaying against high level characters feel sometimes too easy or too hard. I feel braindead or overwhelmed. Using Heihachi taught me to be more strategic and thougful of my attacks and approach. He has most of the tools needed but need extreme timing and execution to be successful. I'm far from successful being Vanquisher rank but goddamn it's so much more fun and rewarding playing Heihachi.
This is my favourite video of yours. And oh dear Swede! I bow before your articulation in English which even native speakers fail at. Thanks for your eloquence on Kazuya & Paul! Someone show MainMan this video! You reminded me of your fellow Swede, FrameWhisperer. Both of you put into words very clearly which is rare to find from native English speaking Tekken content creators. Finally, this video was one big love letter to Tekken & Kazuya, as I personally in my limited understanding think Kazuya epitomizes Tekken, from a visual as well as gameplay standpoint. Great work! 👏👏👏!!!
I played the original Tekken on my sisters Playstation when i was 13 years old. I always picked LAW (i was a Bruce Lee fan as a kid). A few years later i bought a Playstation 2. The first game i bought with it was Tekken Tag tournament. I was unaware of the story since ive only played Tekken 1, and i picked my man Law and Beak as my favorite couple. Then came Tekken 4 and i finaly got into the Mishima story. Since then Kazuya is my favorite character. I like his style, the way he looks and his story. Its realy my favorite fighting game character, my second is Scorpion from Mortal Kombat, third is Heihachi.
I hate what they did with him. He wasn't always evil and was even conflicted in 2 when Jun appeared. It makes no sense why someone as pure as jun would fall in love with someone pure evil.
I was surprised how much Kazuya was is this Paul Phoenix video, very weird. PS, Kazuya in Tekken 1,2 and Tag was significantly different but similar from Tekken 4 going forward. Kazuya got good mobility and flow to his starting in Tekken 4 which was a necessary change because if you play him in Tekken Tag he feels a lot more stiff along with all of the other Tekken 2 characters ported over that didn't get into Tekken 3 Bruce, Jun, Kunimitsu, etc. You can really see the difference when you compare Hwaorang to Baek in Tekken Tag they share moves but Baek is more stiff and doesn't flow as well since nearly a direct port from Tekken 2. This was very detailed video about the evolution of Paul through the franchise and certainly deserves it's own video, labeled the history of Paul but as video about Kazuya as "protagonist" let alone his play style these where virtual non-existent and would've been nice instead of 20+ minutes of Paul tangent. Just saying when I order a steak and they get the best ribs in the world, I'm eant to know what happened to steak I ordered.
While I think you're slightly overstating how apparent skillful play of a Mishima is to a spectator, especially for someone unfamiliar with Tekken (like how is even a good 3D fighting game player that doesn't play Tekken supposed to know that Ryan Hart combo requires an even harder version of an already hard to pull off move) I absolutely agree on the point as a whole. I think that's a plus to Tekken's combo system as a whole. Hitting a 1 frame link, a pedestrian thing in games like SFIV, is much harder that Almost every character's staple juggles in Tekken, but it lack the bombast carrying your opponent across the stage or slamming them through a floor/wall has. The animation style also helps it a lot, the slower tempo of the moves and lack of animation cancelling makes it more immediately understandable to a general audience. Really the only game I could think of that can readily outdo Tekken in the impressive at first glance combos department is HnK, and Maybe Marvel. But those have other incomprehensible things for outsiders that hamper their watching experience.
I think you are probably correct in that it is tad bit overstated. I guess more aptly put, one could say that it is extremely easy to spot if you have put a small amount of time in as a player or spectator.
1:18 Hyde isn’t even anywhere edgy. He’s more of a normal guy in an world where you have to survive and fight. Pretty realistic if anything. If we’re going with edgy, it’s definitely Seth.
I wonder why you didn't include tekken 3 and tag 1 for devil jin as jin kazama is basically a proto devil jin in tekken 3 and tag 1 just missing devil lasers, and wings I call tekken 3 and tag 1 jin... Jin Mishima
I've always believed Paul is the real protagonist if you go by the amount of insane nonsense they continue to give him for how brain dead simple he is. Comparatively; Kazuya is hard as shit and fatiguing to play optimally.
I know you didn't say they have less daunting gameplay. Fighting game protagonist notoriously have difficult gameplay compared to other members of the cast
Got about halfway through before I realized this video wasn’t going to be about the Mishimas. The title was a bit misleading but I figured if you were talking about how unusual the main characters were then it was fine. At least it would be until you started talking about Paul. Can’t tell if this was an intended joke or if you just got carried away but either way, this was a pretty well made video. Just wish it didn’t waste my time.
Yes it did. I skipped towards the end of the video where it seemed like you got back on track but man, if you were gonna go on an in depth 22 minute tangent on a different character to demonstrate a point, you could’ve at least given a heads up.
