Thanks for watching as always and if you are looking to purchase any golf simulator hardware or software feel free to email me for information & pricing. a98cr125@gmail.com Need a Golf Simulator Enclosure? Check out: shop.carlofet.com/golf-enclosures-and-impact-screens?acc=6696f5e016581a2b2827e18e5cbea95c
Jay, I really appreciate this video. I was watching other videos with these claims and leaving comments about how inaccurate the test was but you marking a video will reach a broader audience. Thank you
You are welcome! I could not sit back and let that bad information be out there. Sure 1 or 2 people called it out and he replied how he did not use the dot etc. but all of the poor shoppers and early users thinking this was a valid test was just so misleading. I am not one to really call people out but after many asked me to do something, I felt obligated. Thanks for watching, Kent!
I got one of the early R10's back in September 2021 and I love it for Sim and for training. I think the spin numbers should be scrutinized, however the upsides and ability to work with different softwares through your phone I think is definitley the future of the golf sim world. I have played 100's of rounds and when I think in my head that I opened the face or closed or chunked, I look up at the R10 and its always representing what I feel.
Yeah it is more wedge spin and spin axis especially with gear effect. Just think just 4mm of movement on driver impact at 100mph causes a ball to move 20 yards off center. That could be VERY misleading for players not understanding that gear effect is not being taken into account on R10.
Thanks for the video, it is extremely informative!! I just received my R10 a few weeks ago and one of the first things that caught my eye was some of the spin numbers on a few of the shots. So far I have only used it outdoors at the range which also has TopTracer, unfortunately it doesn't show spin numbers. I was just curious if you ever tested the R10 outside and if so, was it more accurate or not? I definitely feel like it was one of the best $600 I've spent though!!
Thank you again for doing this video. After your second video I bought one with your help. Cant wait to get it. Thanks again for your help o finding a supplier here in Canada.
It's great value for somebody who just wants to play during the winter. Not so much to work on technique... Loving my Mevo Pro more and more everyday.. learned so much about my patterns.
Exactly! I have said it since the beginning that it is a great value for $599. I just hope people are able to learn the facts of how it operates, what it actually measures, things to be aware of, etc. Thanks for watching!
@@GolfSimulatorVideos well, your videos certainly helped me in my initial research so I wouldn't stress it. If people don't do their research and buy based on a single flawed video, then it's on them. Not you. Thanks again for all your videos and seperating facts from "fiction". :D
Great video. Very informative. Just curious do you know if it's the R10 APP that's calculating the spin rates differently? Do other apps that use R10 have better results? algorithms. Tha ks
Are the driver numbers less than actual? The other clubs seem ok, but my 5 wood is going farther than my driver. Might be accurate, as I haven't been hitting it well, but does seem little short. Could it be the set up distance to the net or distance of R10 to the ball?
Yes I was running 4.0. But, that looks to be for Outdoors from what their notes say. I am seeing similar results with 4.0 as I did with 3.9. Thanks for watching!
Great video jay I have a Garmin r10 as well good to see the low spin calculations because my spin on it is also very low I find club path to generally be really good I am a much lower swing speed than you though it would be interesting to do a test with lower swing speeds
Yeah that could mean lower spin shots so not a big of differences. But wedge spin and spin axis especially with gear effect are the big points to look at. Just think just 4mm of movement on driver impact at 100mph causes a ball to move 20 yards off center. That could be VERY misleading for players not understanding that gear effect is not being taken into account on R10.
Do you find the software you use with the r10 makes a difference. Awesome golf v E6 v Garmin. I find my most like course numbers come from using the E6 but not sure if it is only in my head.
So they do both have their own flight algorithms. Now for this video I was mainly focused on backspin and spin axis which all of those hard data points like that are going to show exactly what the unit pushed to the software. Carry however can be affected by their flight alg. I find that e6 is pretty solid for a straight or fade shot, but on draws I find them to boos the distance a little too much. But overall is there really big difference? Not from my testing. I used Awesome Golf here as it was suggested to be one of the most trusted but like I said did not matter what I used to show the main data points like backspin, spin axis, club data etc. those are all going to match regardless of the software. Thanks for watching!
hello jay, I do really appreciate your video. I have an r10 myself, but the software interface is very different. Which software are you using in this video to visualize the r10 data?
I am torn between the R10 and SkyTrak for ~2k. Do you think the accuracy difference is significant enough to go for the extra cost for SkyTrak? I am going to use this indoors always, looking for accurate carry, right left and spin data? I am a high to mid handicapper looking to improve. Love your channel and videos!
I’m just trying to understand this in basic terms. By the looks of things this could give you the totally wrong shape of shot which you could then end up engraining through practice… Is shot shape dictated by the combination of club path and face angle - does it gather these two metrics accurately?
Hey man love the videos! Quick question for you. Does fsx2020 software require wifi to play? Or jus to download it online and play against people online?
You will need to activate the license with internet then you can use your fsx live portal to request offline time. I think it lasts for 30 days before having to use internet again to recheck the license.
Thank you for making this video. How the does the Rapsodo MLM indoor net mode compare with the R10? It would be great if you could do a video to compare the two.
I did a review on it so you can check out that data as well. Similar weaknesses but once again pretty good value for the price. ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-d-c7RahZIMo.html
Hi Jay. Can you please tell me what software do you use in the video ? I own a R10 and I’ve never seen it ! That’s exactly what I’m looking for … Thanks a lot !
Thinking of buying one to help fix a slice.. one reason why I have my eye on the Garmin is bc it looks easy to set up, and it shows club path.. next closes unit that gives u that is a 3-4k unit. which i don't mind paying, I just want it to work. I did buy the launch pro for 3k and actually hated it mostly bc the app/connection sucked.. absolutely awful. not to mentioned to get the data points i need.. I would need to pay another 800 for a gold sub.
How do you make sure the R10 unit is aligned with your target line? How can you assure that where youbare hitting the ball versus where the R10 believes is your target line isn't off even slightly left or right, which would change all of the clubs left or right face at address and ball flight direction significantly? That's the one thing I don't understand when just watching demonstrators that jave the R10 placed behind them 8 feet.
It is pretty easy I just use an alignment stick to align with the red line and to my center point of my sim. It is easy to test with a short shot as well. My sim makes this pretty easy as I have a perfect CenterPoint about 4ft in front of the unit. Some use little stands with lasers which I think is overkill if you just have a good manual method. But it is personal preference.
I’ve had the R10 since August, I was an early preorder. My review on the R10 is it’s good for the price point but it has some downsides. The side spin variances made me think I was Tiger Woods on the r10. Every shot moved much less left or right than in real life. I would practice on the r10 then go out the next day and I would be hitting totally different shapes. I like the r10 for what it is but it has limitations on game improvements. I just pulled the trigger on an XO through Jay. Knowing the two are completely different price points so it’s tough to compare them but I know I will be able to use the XO for more game improvements than the r10. And you should be able to at the different price points. The r10 was great to practice with over the winter and I’m sure I’ll be more consistent so there is some value there.
Nice! Congrats on the EYE XO. Sounds like you understand and I totally agree as I have always said R10 is a good value at $599 for what it offers. Several subscribers asked that I try and clear up the misleading information being put out there so that was the main goal here. Thanks for watching!
As a mid handicapper, why should spin accuracy be important to me? If I get a simulator, it would be to help me with my carry distances and accuracy, Would this unit be worth investing in, or should I consider something else? The ranges near to me do not have the technological set up unfortunately.
So the wrong back spin will produce the wrong distance. But really more importantly it's the spin axis. If you are seeing balls curve left and they actually are curving right can throw people off that are not consistent ball strikers. If you are not making corrections based on results you will be fine. The main purpose here is so users do fully understand the results and don't get misled 👍 Thanks for watching!
How level does the ground need to be i have a net in the backyard but there is a slight elevation probably 5ish degrees. Im thinking of buying one for a makeshift golf sim but does the ground have to be very very level
Excellent video and that is exactly what I find with the R10 vs any unit that measures spin. Spin and spin axis can be off for sure. Just to clarify for those that are watching, bulge does not create gear effect. Gear effect occurs on any off center hit irrespective of bulge and roll, mainly with drivers and woods. There is both horizontal and vertical gear effect. Bulge and roll on drivers are designed to allow for and offset gear effect and performance on off center hits. So when you hit the toe, you will draw more to the left due to gear effect. The bulge on the toe side of drivers will make the ball start more to the right to offset the extra left spin due to gear effect. As such bulge and roll will minimize the outcome of the gear effect.
Thanks for clarifying a little deeper there I brought gear effect up off the hip and I hear what you're saying. My main purpose was to talk about strike and the end result due to it.
I guess I’m different all that matters to me is how far and what direction the shot went. I have found for me the R10 is actually very close on those points. That along with pairing it to GSPro. I am really enjoying playing courses and found it to be a good practice tool. I’m not one that will spend ten thousand plus for a sim setup. Much rather put that money in club memberships and play real golf. Since getting the R10 my actual handicap has come down by 4 strokes.
That is where the value like I mentioned can come in nicely. Just be cautious of heavy side spin shots that could show opposite direction of curve or wedges that could have much less backspin. Also when hitting woods like driver gear effect can't be taken into effect so a heel or toe shot will most likely have the wrong curve. Thanks for watching!
Thanks for the video - I ordered mine in August and received it in December. Anyway, it's a fun toy for indoor practice. Jay - have you noticed odd backspin numbers, especially with driver? I seem to be getting very high backspin numbers with driver (and short distance) but reliable numbers with irons and my fairway wood. At least on the E6 range and courses I'm curious if changing the altitude setting might help.
Great video! When was this recorded? I’m wondering if the software updates were released at the time of this recording. I believe skin axis & other calculated data points were significantly off for earlier software versions.
This was recorded the day it was posted. All of the latest updates. Those updates you are referring to are for outdoor only. This unit can't measure spin axis indoors, so if you take gear effect for instance it is impossible for it to take it into account.
@@sportsbros1232 Yes it is. Just the fact that you are outside vs inside does not matter. It is the limited flight of the ball. With the latest updates they are saying they have a better way to read the spin axis with full flight outdoors.
Hey Jay, I could be wrong but I always understood that infrared is exactly what will interfere with radar based units such as the R10, so in my mind, a better test would be with R10 and Quad instead of your ceiling mounted infrared system. Do you have a video like that?
have you tried "normalizing" the R10's metrics using the altitude/weather adjustments? they can be used to tweak the algorithm. wondering if you normalize them to the Eye XO numbers, if the spin/side spin/club path numbers will be more accurate
Where did you find the documentation stating what's measured vs. calculated? Given this video is now approaching a year old, do you know whether the same metrics are still measured/calculated? Or, have their firmware updates unlocked more capability in respect to measured metrics?
Direct from garmin and these are the latest statements from them. Indoors (Spin) Calculated using a machine-learned model that uses measured radar metrics as inputs. Outdoors (Spin) Calculated by one of the following: Observed ball trajectory by the radar Measured by the radar Measured Data by Radar Club head speed accuracy: +/- 3 mph Ball speed accuracy: +/- 1 mph Launch angle accuracy: +/- 1 degree Launch direction accuracy: +/- 1 degree
I Should add this too…. Spin is not measured when the ball is seen for less than 20m (i.e. only outdoors at the range). Spin is not measured for balls going slower than 90 mph. Spin measurement is designed to work with standard golf balls, however, some balls will work better than others due to their profile and composition. If spin measurement is not possible the system falls back to the alternative calculation method. Intentionally marked balls (e.g. metallic stickers) may degrade system performance. Wind may affect the spin measurement accuracy (particularly head or tail wind).
@@GolfSimulatorVideos all good info. Thanks! And FWIW, I wasn't questioning you or the data. Just couldn't find it on their site, but figured it was out there somewhere. Very interesting that it's not reading spin indoors. Which makes me wonder why it was such a big deal to folks when they started supporting the RCT ball.
RCT does help with a better backspin reading. Checkout my latest video covering it. BUT, just understand this does not have anything to do with spin axis that affect the curve of the ball. That is calculated and R10 has no way of taking into affect for impact / gear effect.
Thank you for the thorough review and comparison. Garmin claims the new Titleist Pro V1 balls with the radar capture technology improves spin accuracy by 30x. Have you repeated these tests with the RCT balls?
Jay, first of all, as an owner of an r10 I would like to thank you for the great video. I do have 3 questions and a couple observations. My 1st observation is I think r10 owners fall into 3 categories. 1 indoor sim, 2 outdoor into a net and people who primarily take it to the range. I fall into the later 2. Do you think environment could affect data results? My 2nd is in the environments I use mine with proper setup shots with good contact give good results. Shots with poor contact give bad info. 1st question, I noticed you are using the awesome golf software. Have you compared it to the Garmin software? I get pretty different results with Garmin giving higher spin and lower carry numbers consistently. 2nd do you feel club offset and lie angle could affect spin and axis #'s? That is something that can vary widely from person to person. Third, do you feel like the mevo+ is worth the price difference in terms of value for money? Thx again for the vid. Keep up the good work
You're welcome. So environmental could, but my studio is extremely proper and I run all kinds of radars with no issues. I think outdoor users will see better results for sure, this was intended to focus on indoors. All kids of things like path, face.c strike, etc can affect spin and spin axis that is why if you are trying to get very accurate backspin or spin axis for shot shape it is very important to be able to measure it. Even if with dual radar and camera like Trackman does with OERT, and even that can still miss. It's all about understanding what the weakness's or possibilities are. Sure can you hit some perfect strikes or straight shots and be ok, but let's face it that's not happening for most and even good players want to shape shots. But if you are getting opposite spin axis it could be very confusing to most and you might try to correct something that is opposite of what is happening. As I've mentioned many times r10 is a good value for sure at $599 but it's going to have some weaknesses and for someone to be making allegations that it is as accurate as GCQuad etc is just misleading and wrong to do. Hopefully this helps better educate people about what it can measure and what can affect results along with data tolerances you might encounter. Thanks for watching!
@@GolfSimulatorVideos thx for the quick response! If you were to do another video on the r10, I would love to see a software comparison, Awesome golf vs Home Tee Hero. My observation has been higher spin and lower carry all the way thru the bag. I assume it's because their algorithms vary slightly, but I would love to see how they compare to a high end system like the xo or quad
Yeah availability is just flat out bad. Worldwide though. Same supply issues as people are seeing with appliances, cars, etc. Sounds like they are trying to ramp up but right now you can't even place backorders anywhere or at least they shouldn't be. Thanks for watching!
I saw some really conflicting data across the board with it and really just didn't give me accurate enough data because of so many calculated metrics. I cancelled my backordered R10 recently, just need to wait until the EyeXO Mini comes out IMO.
Sold out worldwide, nobody is even taking back orders or at least they shouldn't be if they are. But not surprised based on the supply of all kinds of merchandise right now. Anything with volume of sales is hurting. Thanks for watching!
It can't read the loft so can't make a difference. Of course if you have a stronger loft it affects ball data outcome but that is obvious of course. Thanks for watching
I also use the r10 with awsome golf. All the data is almost the same compared to the trackman. Only with the driver does the r10 show an average of 1200 RPM backspin too much. Why????
hi Jay thanks for sharing this, unfortunately before watching this video i did my own ball fitting on the R10 that resulted in me purchasing 12 dozen non-refundable Chrome Soft X LS's.
I’d really love to see a gc quad vs bushnell launch pro/gc3. I know the comparison can be done. I’ve seen someone do it. But the video was less about the numbers and more if a sales pitch. I would love to know how close they actually are to each other. Thanks!!
You actually can't so whomever told you that or showed it might have got a few shots to work but they actually interfere with each other and cause problems. I have tried it several times.
Damn!!😢 there is a video on here showing the demonstration. But what goods a test if the data isn’t accurate do you them not being able to sit side by side👍👍 thx
Hit my Garmin in a really dark environment outside and it picked up just as easy as the middle of the day light, like you said. A good buddy of mine has a flight scope, and just as you explained, the numbers are decent with the Garmin R10, but $599 worth of accurate instead of $12-15K worth of accurate. Is it a perfect value, absolutely. Will you get decent numbers, yes. Should you use it to change/train your swing because the numbers are as accurate as a Flightscope, Quad, etc. not entirely.
Sounds like you understand it well! After having many people ask me to recover this due to erroneous claims and comparisons I felt it was necessary. Thanks for watching!
@@GolfSimulatorVideos your videos are very knowledgeable and explain content very well. If you're a mid to high handicap, or wanting a cheaper way of playing simulator golf, you'll find no better option than the Garmin. If you're using/wanting for dead accuracy you're gonna have to spend some extra $. It'll show you consistency in most places and for a basic consumer it's going to be fantastic. For Example, it has shown my swing path consistently over the top, open face, & how that worsens with my long irons. I've used that data to help get my swing path closer to plane. A crazy good value for $599 imo with that data. Then if I'm looking to dial it in more pinpoint, I take that data to a higher launch monitor. In my opinion, that's an example of the Garmin data you can use to improve your game with it moving forward. Just don't expect absolute pin point accuracy.
@@MedlinAround what was your starting swing path was to figure it out? Just curious because Jay has a mild right swing path but was getting more than a few lefts? If the path is +/- 4 degrees that is basically the difference between reading normal fade path as a normal draw path and vice versa. I guess maybe you are saying you just want to, in your case, see your average move to the right and you worry less about the actual number?
@@CharlesFromage @CharlesFromage make 100% sure your Garmin is in line. Rather that's using a Lazer or an alignment rod, the Garmin is very sensitive and will throw it off a lot if you're not aligned which each shot. My long irons are consistently 4-6 on the Garmin over the top ("L" indicated on the Garmin). When I'm trying hard to come inside with my long irons I get that number down to 1-2 on the Garmin. When I hit my shorter irons "7-W" that inside path comes closer to 0 to a "R" +1 degree or so.
Great video and thanks for doing. I watched your other one against Uneekor and it seems to me that main issue with spin axis is that it is misreading your club path. You have a slight inside-out (right) club path but it is reading outside-in (left). The weird thing is that this caused a draw miss in the last video but a fade (slice) miss in this one. In the prior video it looked like face angle was pretty good, so I don’t understand why it is making the opposite miss now? (Maybe this is your gear effect theory?) As someone waiting on an R10, I actually found the distance discrepancies a bigger issue. I have game improvement clubs that are low spin, so I’m thinking my 5 iron that spins 3500 and carrys 205 on Trackman/course is going to drop quickly out of the air if it is spinning, say 2000 on R10. You obviously are a higher/normal spin player so you see the opposite with more carry. On one hand I’m hitting into a net at home so any feedback is helpful, but, it makes me second guess if I’m mistakenly thinking I’m hitting my clubs +/- 20% long/short with a baby draw that is actually a slice.
Yes I mentioned that in the video. I think the swing path reading is a major part of its spin axis calculation. But it can't decipher impact for gear effect so that wouldn't matter regardless. Facts are it's a good value for what it does at $599 but clearly is going to have some weaknesses. Thanks for watching!
@@GolfSimulatorVideos Thanks for the reply. Aside from doing a great service, I am originally from Michigan (Lansing), so I love watching Michigan-made content.
Yes running 4.0. This is actually quite common results from users that know their spin rates and can shape shots. That last update was all outdoors items.
I’m no math wiz, but you would think that garmin could work on their algorithms to just increase spin with some testing. I mean they are calculating already so… your thoughts?
It is not about the alg as much as it is the reading they are getting and the inability to see ball impact on the face which also can lead to a chance in spin axis. The measured points are where the data calculation is coming from, if those are off then ultimately the calculation is off. This is why Trackman is trying to use OERT (Optically Enhanced Radar Tracking) indoor as well as Mevo+ now using Fusion tracking. Both of these utilize cameras to help combine visual reading with radar readings indoor. Trackman even can have challenges with this when the impact is missed and even when they do catch impact I have see calculations lead to wrong spin axis. It is just a know weakness of radar indoor. Nothing wrong with that, especially R10 at it's $599 price point. I just want users to understand how everything works and what they should be paying attention to. Thanks for watching!
I know your focus is on indoor simulators and products, but can you do a video testing Garmin outdoors at a range where spin is measured? Curious how this may impact spin numbers. I saw James Robinson Golf played a round with it while playing the course with HTH and it looked pretty accurate save a shot that hit a virtual tree and a couple no reads.
I will see what I can do when the weather gets better here in Michigan. Right now it is 28 degrees with a windchill of 12 and snow on the ground this morning! BRUTAL for almost April in Mid Michigan. Thanks for watching!
I will say their site is very confusing on the outdoor information. It says OUTDOORS - Calculated either of the following..... Then lists Observed ball tracking by the radar or measured by the radar.... But it says it is calculated. So what is actually being measured? So confusing. I am not sure it is measuring the actual spin, but not sure! It says wind could affect the spin measurement accuracy, particularly head or tail wind, also confusing. Would love to know how it is actually coming up with spin outdoors and even better how far it is tracking the ball. But, I do not think they are going to tell us that.
@@GolfSimulatorVideos It says it is calculated by either trajectory or measured ball spin, it also lists when spin is not measured. In either circumstance, one has to imagine there will be increased accuracy outdoors with measurements to the unit off of one or both of spin and trajectory. 90mph ball speed is pretty doable for many, also. I did see an outdoor test of Garmin v Trackman, but it was prior to the update in which Garmin announced that spin would be measured outdoors. I am in Wisconsin so I feel your pain re: weather. I may try using my Garmin at Topgolf next weekend so I can compare it to the their launch monitor data. Would be very fun as a warmup tool if it can be accurate outdoors. Many people practice hitting the shots they plan to hit on the course on the first hole or 2. With HTH you could actually play them virtually at the range before playing them in real life. Thanks again for the great content.
@@kurtellison4789 yeah just confusing. Just makes me wonder how it is coming to it. Seemed odd for them to release an update much later now saying spin can be measured outdoor that's all. I would assume it does much better outdoors just as even units like swing caddie do etc.
The review certainly demonstrated the differences between the different "tiers" of launch monitors. My point of view is that if Garmin cannot deliver good numbers then they shouldn't present them at all. Advertise what they can guarantee (at least have some high degree of confidence) and only present those results. If the reality is that the $500 unit can only accurately describe ball speed, ball height, carry distance and ball flight trajectory (i.e. what data a radar unit can actually measure) then the user can decide if the value is there. If I can't believe "some" of the results on any given parameter, how can I trust any of the results on that parameter? For me to make best the use of your excellent testing I would appreciate a summary table showing the differences between the different launch monitors including averages and standard deviations so that I can see the differences between the manufacturers claims and the real results.
I hear what you are saying for sure, but there are many people, even some in these comments that really appreciate the value it brings for them to have fun with indoor sim golf at a low price. You just have to understand it all and of course it may not be for everyone. Yeah it is difficult to show the tables when so many screens going on but at least it is all there to look at side by side for each shot. Thanks for watching!
I actually do. For $599 players can get pretty good distance numbers for gapping wedges and irons. You can also get pretty solid data on most good strikes. Just ignore the bad strikes as gear effect and other factors can lead to possible opposite side spin or other possible misread data.
The reality is you have to decide what your getting a sim for. If the idea is to keep the rust to a minimum during the winter and to have a little fun doing it, then the R10 at its price is good. But if your going to make swing changes in an effort to get better based on the data your getting from your unit, you'd be setting yourself up for failure here. As shown and mentioned by others, you could think your hitting one shap shape, only to find out on the course it's going the other way. That would be devastating. That could include trying to reduce or increase spin rate on certain clubs for a desired ball flight. Just know what your trying to accomplish.
Exactly. It does a good job in distances for the most part so you can dial in those and keep swinging all winter which that alone is great practice! Thanks for watching!
I do have videos up using the latest updates. You can see them in the R10 playlist. ru-vid.com/group/PLXs9Z_nZSIehtzPfd4NtlBlm_obXWLZ1H Thanks for watching!
R10 as a device to give you data on carry seems to be good. As a device for indoor golf simulation I'd pass on it. Not sure if you've done tests or have data on the repeatability of the r10. I would say that it's more important if the r10 is repeatable. Each unit is going to have varying numbers.
Yeah you just have to understand how it works and the tolerances. Nothing is perfect I agree. The main reason for this video was to clear up the very misleading Mevo+ vs R10 video attempting to say they are the same and also the pictures of a few shots on GCQuad making similar claims. I hope this helps further educate people and understand what to expect for possible weaknesses. Thanks for watching!
Love it. I honestly can't wait to see what the next year or two brings to the space. I feel like all of the big players are full throttle with development. Very exciting. Thanks for watching!
That’s really just ball speed and club speed. They should be pretty close based on my testing. Those data metrics are generally pretty easy for most units.
Just as a way to make this clearer for the audience, you might highlight both the difference between these units in shot shape and the difference in where the ball actually lands. As a consumer, when I see a difference of 1500 in backspin and 500 and sidespin between two launch monitors, it’s hard to mentally convert that into a shot result. But if one shows a heavy draw and the other shows a fade, that’s obviously a huge problem. And if one monitor shows the ball landing 10 yards right of target and the other shows 50 yards right of target, that’s obviously a huge problem. Maybe I’m just too old to see the shot shape on the Garmin app.
Yeah sorry if you can't see the traces well. But yet opposite flights on many. Driver can be a big one as it can't tell if there is gear effect changing the spin axis. But also, the big backspin of 3k etc on a wedge will surely affect green reaction.
@@GolfSimulatorVideos yeah, I was hoping you’d get to a driver comparison, just because the swing speed would highlight the shot shape differences and left/right deviation differences. Maybe next time! I’m an R10 user, and it has helped me a great deal. It has helped me turn my high slice into a slight pull draw in the simulator. But on-course, that pull draw seems much more exaggerated, and I find myself yanking/curving the ball more to the right (I’m a lefty) than in the sim. I’ve been blaming my alignment (easy for me indoors but not on-course). Perhaps the Garmin shares some blame there too.
@@kurtlaker2273 yeah real life doesn't lie :) I can try and do a driver comparison soon. Maybe all driver and like 10+ shots to get good data to look at.
There must have been a setup issue. Here is the answer direct from the Garmin support website: "Can I use the Approach R10 in low lighting? Yes. The device uses radar to detect your shots, so the lighting does not have any effect. However, lighting will be needed for Swing Capture recording."
Hi Wayne, this is the latest 4.0. But that update seems to be mainly for outdoors. I am seeing the same or similar results 3.9 vs 4.0. Thanks for watching!
@@GolfSimulatorVideos It would be interesting to see results outdoors vs your quad. I use my r10 primarily at the driving range and I’ve noticed that when using the Garmin range, sometimes the spin numbers will be in italics and other times just the normal font. Not sure what that signifies or if that is something new but I just noticed it the other day. Thanks for your videos!
@@waynelee5905 Yes I can try to do that. You are going to get better results outdoors for sure based on their statements of reading longer ball flight. It is odd how if you look at the snapshots in the video I took from Garmin they say spin is measured outdoors using the ball flight, yet it says it is calculated. Confusing. But this was to focus on indoors and the misleading info that was being put out there with bad tests etc. Thanks for watching!
The R10 is awesome for the price. Mine is pretty accurate in the measured fields but less so in the calculated metrics. Spins are quite a bit off. And you definitely get some erratic readings for shot shape some times. But take it for what it is. If you need more accuracy, get a more capable unit. I love the R10 for it’s intended purpose.
It's all about the value for each user. The key is to understand what you are saying about the weaknesses. The claims that were being tossed around that it is as accurate as GCQuad were just grossly misleading. I just want people to have the proper knowledge and under. Thanks for watching!
The r10 gives everyone the opportunity to build a sim rather than just a backyard net. It opened up simgolfing for everyone because of that price. This can also lead to more developers writing simsoftware. Its a win win situation even if the device is not perfect.
Agreed. That is why I always make a point including in this video several times of how it's a good value at $599. But the misleading information being put out there that it is as accurate as GCQuad etc is just wrong and many asked for me to clear those statements up. Thanks for watching!
Well, I appreciate the info on spin rates, but it would have been better to understand the effect of those spin rates on distance and direction. The Garmin window is pretty small in your video, and contains lots of info, so it was difficult to see shot results. Based on the 2 quick glimpses of distance, the R10 appears to overstate distance, but by how much on average is virtually impossible to tell. Certainly a result of underestimate of backspin, but focusing only on the spin without the corresponding mention of the end result is an awfully narrow focus. Same issue with side spin. Like most people trying to evaluate the R10, I can’t afford a $20k+ setup and would rather not even spend $2k on a Skytrak or Mevo+. If the R10 grossly misses on the spin rates, but is within 90% of distance and direction, I’d be perfectly happy with it, completely understanding that it is not intended for precision, which is an unknown term in my skill set. And yes, I understand that the spin rates impact distance and direction, but I’ve also seen high-end units completely miss things like club head speed, yet still produce accurate carry distances, so it can happen. I just can’t tell from this video. Just a quick mention of the shot results would have done it. 😊
Saw your takedown of the GC quad comparison. I agree that statistically averages are misleading and you need to especially scrutinize absolute deviations on spin axis and spin. It also seems people should know Garmin is say 75% accurate on shot shape while say Mevo Plus is say 90%. However, one thing that got me thinking is all the videos essentially show (by eyeballing) three things about Garmin 1/ spin is too low on wedges. 2/ spin axis shows fade bias due to leftward bias of path. 3/ driver spins too high. I guess my question is if there are truly biases in the way states couldn’t a firmware update fix some of these? I feel like and algorithm that +/- 15% on wedge/driver spin and simply added +2 to path would get tighter results? Or maybe this is just inherent to the nature of the hardware? I guess my question is do you think they are at the limits of firmware improvements?
Yeah it is even tough to say that in general. Reason being is lets say someone is a draw player, but if that is where R10 is off the most let's just say, is it much more inaccurate for them? This is where understanding the misses is so vital and why I wanted to get good information out there for people to understand. At least that user released a new video being truthful that R10 spin can be far off and spin axis can show opposite so maybe now they won't be misled from the other information that was stated. So as far as firmware updates you for sure can't get spin axis fixed with firmware, Trackman has proven that. They are now trying to use camera OERT impact to properly calculate it due to various factors, especially gear effect. I think on wedges, everyone hits them differently, sure they could rely more on a estimate based on club but this is going to be very misleading for those fat shots, poor strikes, low/high spin players. I think we are limited on hardware, and there is nothing wrong with that for $599. Users just need to understand what results could occur. I just would hate for someone to make changes to their swing only to find out they were looking at a ball that was actually going the opposite direction. Thanks for watching!
I looked up a quick reference for gear effect on driver. Just 4mm at 100mph accounts for 20 yards offline. So you are never going to be able to compensate with a calculation since you have no idea the strike position.
@@GolfSimulatorVideos Thanks for the thoughtful replies. Lots to think about. For me the most interesting implication is that, based on past Trackman numbers, I’m pretty much zero to half degree right with irons but about -1 fade path with driver. I think I’d probably know to discount a big, negative path fade with irons, but I wouldn’t be so confident with driver since my actual miss is an opened face slice.
@@CharlesFromage is that outside or Trackman inside? It takes a very good Trackman setup indoor catching impact every time to also not have spin axis misses.
@@GolfSimulatorVideos My iron fitting (T300) was an outdoor Trackman and I believe those because they matched the ball flights I saw, but I had an iron and hybrid fitting at 2nd Swing indoor. I was getting similar numbers on my irons when checking for gapping, but, based on what you are saying it could have been dumb luck. I will say I saw opposite initial ball flights when I went to the range, but I was chalking that up to warm up.
The Garmin was saying you were launching 200 ish yards with your 8 Iron when the other monitor was saying 150ish.. The spin number is a big part in the distance misreads and I feel its really important if you want a realistic/ accurate simulator experience. I think i'm off the fence with the Garmin now. Seems to be more of a fun game rather than a tool.
This device is not a good value for the inaccuracies it has compared to what R-Motion was for just 300$ . Gaming aspect is fun but how can I be sure if it shows me a good shot that I have actually hit one with so much inconsistency ... I am still considering the 7000$ GC3 . I believe it has the best Value amongst all the Launch Monitors. 99.9% Accurate and one time purchase... I am still hopeful for a pretty accurate Launch Monitor under 2K in the near future... ;)
GC3 is a great device but at 11 times the price of course it is going to perform better. I talk to a ton of viewers who think r10 is an excellent value at $599 but it can be personal preference and personal results for sure. Thanks for watching
@@GolfSimulatorVideos you're definitely correct at x11 price it makes you have fun but no one can improve on that device which is my main goal when I buy a launch monitor. R-Motion helped me with my hook for 300 .The club speed ,club path and and face angle were all measured perfectly. That's why I sad it had more value but like you've said it's a personal preference 😉
I have bought my last Garmin product. The R10 is next to useless. extremely inaccurate and fails to pick anything up about 25% of the time. I am on my second R10 and I still have the same problems. Doesn't send any data at all to my phone most of the time. BUYER BEWARE! I am out $600 bucks.
I’m just trying to understand this in basic terms. By the looks of things this could give you the totally wrong shape of shot which you could then end up engraining through practice… Is shot shape dictated by the combination of club path and face angle - does it gather these two metrics accurately?
Shot shape is a face to path result, when no gear effect is taking place. If you are inside out for instance with a closed face to path your ball is going to spin left. Outside in and open to path then it will spin right. Just basic reference here of course.
@@GolfSimulatorVideos Thanks for the reply. I meant to write 'if shot shape is dictated by...'. So basically wondered if this particular sim could give you the wrong shot shape? My understanding is that it could, and therefore one would be better suited to the SkyTrak and just pay a little more money.
