In this video I take bit of a deeper dive in to how the Garmin R10 works. I also go over some of the limitations involved with radar technology in golf simulators and why it effects your chipping with this unit. #garminr10 #garmin #golf
My brother has a very slow backswing and is having this exact error. He hates having to change his swing to make chipping work. So, we came up with a work around. Just before he is ready to start his backswing I will move a club that I have resting behind his (about 1 meter) towards the Garmin to make the red light turn on. After that he does his normal slooooow swing and it reads every time. Great idea about the Garmin choices. I made the suggestion to the Garmin's Share Ideas page just after watching your video.
Cheers for the comment Steve. Yes having to change your motion isn't the best... Almost negative training. Ok very interesting! That's a good idea. Thanks for following that up on the Garmin share ideas page. Do you have a link for that? In the future I will put them straight on there.
Good explanation, if not longwinded 🙂Personally, I've not had one problem with the R10 picking up my chip shots. But up until I upgraded the Garmin's firmware I did have a few problems with Driver. I love the unit and have zero issues. Thanks Joe!
Hey Robert yes when I was watching it back to check for mistakes I did think it was a bit long! 🤣. I get carried away trying to explain things clearly. It is such a good unit for the price... It will be exciting in a few years if Garmin releases an updated version.
@@JLagGOLF Some of the things that David Maxwell are recommending to Garmin would be great upgrades but I do hope they never stop supporting the older versions! LOL
@@MrRobertLavala for sure! I agree but Garmin does have a bad habit with doing exactly that in their product lines! In saying that they are getting better at supporting older products.
Joe, this is My exact issue. To compensat I picked up my take away speed. Not very comfortable for my 40 year old short game. Feels so unnatural to me. Till you said slider bar, I was typing the suggestion to you, lol Great minds do think alike! Slider,slider, slider! Protest votes! Let’s all request in next update?
Yeah it would get annoying having to compensate.. and it's such an easy fix! Even if it was just a slow and fast option. At least that would give some sort of option for people.
@@JLagGOLF would make a lots less frustration for me, I don't need any! I vote we all contact them about it, I am sure many others would like to dial in the back swing speed trip threshold! Thanks Brother, building a new mat today here, after tur the whole ace around!
@@FrugalFixerSpike Yeah I'll put something on the Garmin support page. Very nice! I am also gathering products to make my own hitting strip! Also started working on the ceiling protection finally 🤣
Thanks for the video. I have a new Garmin R10 and I'm interested in what works and what doesn't so this is a useful video. The difficulty for the R10 is distinguishing between a quick waggle before a shot and a slow chip shot. If it relied upon being triggered only by a speed threshold causing it to be triggered then this would be a challenging task. Your eye/brain can distinguish between these two types of activity, not because of a threshold being triggered, but because of the duration of the event and because your eye/brain detects a backward and forward motion - something that the Doppler Shift can easily detect. I would be surprised if the R10 doesn't split the job into two tasks: always recording data and then using this data to later decide when to trigger. If it was based solely on a single threshold being exceeded then this wouldn't be too reliable, but if it modelled the observed data with what it expects to see then a combination of events and duration could trigger it with greater certainty. Each firmware update can then further refine the algorithm?
What you're saying makes sense I just don't know how much data and how quick the Garmin can process it all. I would love to have an in-depth manual from Garmin that shows exactly how it works. If it is using the 24ghz straight off the bat or if it's using a lower frequency that then triggers the 24ghz to initiate when the unit goes from flashing green to red light I'm not sure exactly. It would make it better or easier for the consumers or users to get the most out of the product if they released all the information but I guess that's their in depth stuff they don't want other companies knowing. What I can say is in all my testing and just general play with the unit (and I've done a lot lol) the slower swings to not get the unit from flashing green to red light which is what is needed to get the unit to track the shot. Anyway! Enjoy the R10 I've played so much golf that I never would have played if I didn't have mine.
Thanks for the video Joe. I'm curious how the R10 would react to a sloooow back swing if the detection target was larger. I don't yet have an R10 so I can't test it but if one would attach a flag of metallic tape (shiny silver tape used for HVAC ductwork) to the iron's shaft maybe the radar would respond. It may work better if a couple layers of tape are used and since the tape adhesive is very tenacious a layer of easily releasable masking tape could be applied to the shaft before the silver tape. A quick temporary test could be done with household aluminum foil and packaging tape.
Hey Steve I really don't think this would have any effect. Because the clubs themselves are metal.. if the clubs were made out of plastic or rubber then possibly. The reason the metallic strips in the RCT balls work so well is because the ball doesn't have any metal in it otherwise.. its just different rubber cores and urethane cover. Those materials are more radar absorbing so the metal insert really gives the radar something to detect. Hope that makes sense. And that's just my theory!! Cheers
Just found your channel and videos. Like the explanations and tips with Garmin. Some issues have been fixed with updates but the chipping was still remaining until i found this video. We get a little closer to the monitor during chips (back part of the mat) and it helps. but speeding up backswing has solved all the other issues. To piggy back on your idea of adjusting settings...I think they should include a "chip" selection similar to club selection in the software. tell the garmin you are doing "chipping" and it adjusts the thresholds accordingly for the different stroke. you could play around with the sensitivity in the settings for that chipping mode to suit each user profile created.
Glad to hear the video helped mate! Yes I completely agree with the chipping mode.. unfortunately we haven't seen any updates for over a year now for the R10 I feel like it's the end of the product life cycle 😭. It's still a fantastic device!! And it works great but hopefully this also means Garmin is going to release a successor 🤞🤞🤞🤞 I have fingers crossed.
Having same issues but my swing doesn't seem all that slow either. I can't seem to register any chips under 20yrds. I've found that my unit seems to be flashing green and red when I move in front of unit but swing not being detected.. other then this issue I love the unit. Your fix makes complete sense. I hope they take it on board
Hey yes unfortunately it can be quite frustrating.. another guy in the comments section said his brother will swing and activate it quickly and then do his normal chip shot and it will register.. again this is really not ideal as you are trying to concentrate on a chip shot not on your r10 picking up the shot.. yeah it would make it so much more versatile and adaptable depending on the player and also what environment they are in to be able to just dial up or down the sensitivity. Even just a fast / slow option. Unfortunately again I don’t think my voice is big enough to be heard by Garmin but you never know they could be working on something even better!
Excellent explanation of a complex subject (how radar works) Thank you!… What type of mesh did you use to upgrade your faraday cage? Where did you purchase the material?
Thanks HD Sniper! So the updated Faraday cage just has metal mesh flyscreen from my local hardware store. I do think the original mesh works better if I'm honest. With the new mesh I did experience the odd mis-read where as the old mesh I had none! The metal flyscreen does work but just not as well.
I would love to see a firmware update like you mentioned! An option to select "chipping mode" would be ideal since the R10 doesn't like my slow takeaway on short chips. Do you know if Garmin is receptive to feedback from end-users?
Hey Beebs so they have a few webpages that offer the opportunity to provide feedback and suggestions. That being said I like many have put up a lot of suggestions and the timeframe for any changes seems to be a looooooooooong time... If ever.. but it's definitely worth adding things you would like to see done!
Joe first of thanks a million for all Ur help/advice re Garmin r10 . Just quick question have you tried the RCT balls with the Garmin and if u had was there any difference in numbers. Thanks in advance
Hey Leo thanks for that mate! Yes absolutely I do have a video on it showing the differences. The biggest thing is the backspin numbers which then affects the carry distance. If you want accurate carry distances then I highly recommend the RCT balls or putting some metallic tape on the balls so the unit can calculate backspin rather than estimate it.
Thanks mate no i never use RCT while chipping as I've found with extensive testing they produce more mis-reads with short chips (at the moment). Hopefully in the next update this is fixed. Cheers
Great explanation Joe, my issue is with my sand wedge, on very cleanly struck well hit shots that have plenty of loft, I get no reads, sometime 3 in a row. I know I’ve struck the ball well which should give me between 60 to 80 yds, maybe a very slight hook, my thinking is the ball is blocked by my body as it is in direct line with the R10 and the net. Any other users suffered this. Cheers
Hey Ken how much room did you have ball to net? When I was doing that in depth video about how much room you need I did notice my 9 iron when I was 6ft ball to screen did exactly that. And yes if it is a big pull I've noticed when my kids are hitting it won't register and it's exactly as you say you are blocking the return signals.
@@10KenHall Ok nice 👍 that's plenty of room. Also something to think about is the R10 positioning in relation to the ball. I have mine at just over 6 feet but possibly have a play with that distance as well and increase it if you can to 7 feet.
Joe, I have had great success with the new bluetooth exe file! Thanks again to the man that got that figured out and good riddens IOS middle man! I'm curious if you or anyone else has experienced the GarminR10 completely locking up with those super short chips (10yrds or less). I understand that the sensitivity setting doesn't allow for super slow short backswings which is understandable. In early versions and time with the Garmin if I brought the club back too slow it would just deny the action until I produced enough speed in a swing. Now once the Garmin receives a slow enough backswing it doesn't take too many slow attempts before it locks up with a solid red light and freezes. The only way to fix it is to manually turn the Garmin off & back on and most of the time it links back up. I called Garmin and the rep said that was the first time he had heard of that result. Anyone else get the same result on shorty chips that are not fast enough with the R10/GSPro/ bluetooth link combo?
Hey Ben Thanks mate! Appreciate the comment and yeah Matt is the man! So I have experienced the lock up it doesn't happen very often to me.. maybe once every 5 or 6 rounds. It's a very rare case. But that being said I hit a lot of greens so I'm not chipping that much. But I have definitely experienced what you're saying.. and yeah the fix for me was the big switch off and on and it reconnects.
@@JLagGOLF Ok great. I’m not alone in that random result not a huge deal though I like the suggestion/idea that I came across recently where we the end users will eventually have the option to adjust the back swing sensitivity of the garmin knowing if it’s set high everyone has to chill out with excessive movement and waggling to get the unit to be spot on with short chips and slow back swings:)
At 5:01, the he explains the issue: slow swings often don’t trigger the radar because they don’t hit the frequency threshold needed for detection. The quick fix proposal is to speed up your chipping motion so it registers properly. Otherwise, a software garmin solution would be adding adjustable sensitivity settings to accommodate different swing speeds. So it's either garmin needs to update their software or make your takeaway quicker.
Helpful video Joe Thank you . Interesting getting the 2nd hand gc2 did you look for particular serial number .? (A more recently built one ) . Are the camera flash units easy to replace / very expensive ?
Hey Peter yes I did a fair bit of research as you can probably imagine lol. This is all the information you need: Foresight switched to the newest revision of flash power board around serial number A9000, so ones above that would have the newest version from the factory. Why this is important is that the flash sold by Andy (mega flash I believe it's called) costs 150 vs 500 for the OEM version from foresight. If the unit was sent in to Foresight for any other repairs in the last few years, they probably would have upgraded it at that time. Or if it was purchased as a certified pre owned GC2, it would have been upgraded. However it's not all doom and gloom if it's not a A9000 or higher because Andy can upgrade it for around $25. The annoying thing is the postage to the US for all of this. Replacing the flash is 2 screws.. pop it out and put the new one in. The main things to check are that the bluetooth and USB connections both work! The batteries wear out eventually but can be rebuilt at a battery shop, or Andy sells battery packs for $75. Other than that, GC2s are built really solidly and can last a long time. I didn't find one while I was in the UK that was close by above the A9000 so I'm running a 5000 series.
@@JLagGOLF Very helpful cheers will keep an eye out for one but also mindful 2023 will bring new models from other manufacturers hopefully affordable and readily available when released . Will keep with r10 for time being as a pretty good unit for my standard of golf .
@@125phr For sure I was waiting and waiting for the Eye XO mini for soooo long but it's been delayed again. I would have thought skytrak would update their unit it's been like 9 years since it came out.
Unfortunately it doesn't exist.. That was my recommendation for Garmin to fix issue. It would be good if they gave people the option to select a sensitivity that suits them.
Thanks! With my setup 9' to indoor net & 6' to the R10, I can chip without any issues even with Almost Golf Balls. Have you any thoughts why the R10 seldom picks up driver (with yellow basket like plastic tee - tied down with long string), and 3 wood shots when using Almost Golf Balls? When using real golf balls these shots are usually all read. The R10 tripod feet are level & the same height as my hitting mat. I try to keep the same swing tempo using all clubs. I'm a senior with a slower swing speed. There are times when I use Almost Golf Balls JUST to track swing data & ball path, not caring about distance.
Hey Tom thanks for the comment and glad to hear you don't have any chipping issues! I have some almost golf balls on the way and will be doing some testing with them. I have heard that a lot of people say the R10 doesn't register almost golf balls with the driver and woods but I'll be doing an in-depth video on them to see. And I agree it would be good especially at night to be able to use the almost golf balls to do some swing work.
@@JLagGOLF Thanks Joe!! I'll be looking forward to that! I did read on the Garmin R10 forum that someone found the Sci-Core balls do a better job when using a driver. I've read they are heavier than the Almost Golf Balls. I just wonder if they are safe to use indoors - will they damage a plasterboard wall or crack a window on a mishit ?
@@tomgee632 ahh ok I'll check them out. Also I wonder if a metallic dot would help the R10 pick up the almost golf balls. I'll do that as well for testing.
@@JLagGOLF Hi Joe, It seems to read OK if I take a slow deliberate backswing & downswing with a driver or 3 wood. Anything close to full speed is hardly read from 9 feet ball to net. I did back up to 9 1/2 feet ball to net keeping 6 feet from ball to the R10 (my max distances) & with limited testing it did read the driver shots sometimes, but could not pick up the 3 wood with close to full speed swings. I don't have metal dots or aluminum tape, but have had success gluing aluminum foil to the ball (see real spin rates-not italicized), but I didn't notice any improvement.
Have you tried the new gspro connect file 1.3.5 ? Brief video of how to remove old one and install new file correctly would be cool . For us less savvy pc users (old] . ! Cheers Joe
Hahaha I'm right there with you mate! Yes I had someone message today asking that so I might update it and see how it goes. I will also download the new one that someone else made and test that one out. I'd imagine it's as simple as uninstalling the old one and downloading the new one. Or it might even just update the existing file so no need to uninstall. I'll check it out tomorrow and let you know. Cheers
@@JLagGOLF Updated to 1.3.5 did nt work initially but with some tinkering worked ok . Won’t be troubling it with any 170 mph plus ball speeds to test it ! Cheers
@@JLagGOLF Yes well deleted old zip folder then all files that had been unzipped in my downloads folder . Then downloaded new 1.3.5 update and installed.
Hi Joe just wondering if have you had issues with apex hight being incorrect? I hit the ball high but my Garmin doesn't seem to go above 20m when hitting 5i down to driver . Cheers would love to hear your thoughts
So for me peak height and apex has always been really good. But I'll keep more of an eye on it during the tests! What's your swing speed because 20m is not low. General rule of thumb from fitting is whatever your 6 iron swing speed is usually should match your peak height in feet. So for example 6 iron swing speed of 95mph then your peak height should be very close to 95 feet across the board. Until you get a lot of speed so Rory or DJ for example. Then this formula doesn't work.
@@JLagGOLF my club speed average is around 135km/h and ball speed is 200km/h. I just noticed due to my Carry distance being way down compared to what I'm seeing on course
@@kora2ross ok so yeah that's pretty close... 83ft so 25m ideally should be peak height. Yes the launch angle and then peak height could lead to the shorter carry distance. I would try take it to the driving range and do a comparison.. take screenshots of the good ones and compare all the data to the indoor ones that you hit good. The biggest thing to change peak height is dynamic loft and ball speed.. spin does play a factor but not as much as people think.
This seems to be my biggest problem, those shots that are green side and in the rough. I usually have chip the shot 5 or 6 times before the R10 picks up the shot and that shot is usually hit across the green.
It could potentially be your technique.. unfortunately it needs a quick backswing tempo to really register anything moving.im sure you've looked into possible interference from things as well? That could also cause issues.
Hey mate this area is called the GS Pro practice area the best way to launch it is if you go on course practice and then select it from there. Another great practice area is the night range.
That is the biggest issue or flaw the the Garmin. Unfortunately because it is only a single radar and doesn't have a camera to determine impact location on the face so it will never be able to take into account gear effect. Even the newest trackman struggles to calculate spin axis indoors and has to have the adequate amount of lighting for the camera to determine strike location on the clubface. So quick answer yes it does a good job estimating spin axis most of the time I was happy enough with it and could hit shot shapes on demand. But it's never going to be as accurate as a photometric based system indoors.. I'll have a video out shortly explaining all of this. Cheers
Hey mate I was in the UK for Christmas visiting family and picked it up there. I've only seen one for sale in Australia in the last year. There were about 6 available in the UK.
Hey Kevin the first one I made using craft or bulsa wood and then wrapped it with mesh I ordered from eBay. I made a video showing exactly what I did on my channel. The second one I had a friend 3d print me the frame and then he wrapped it in metal flyscreen mesh. Cheers
@@kevinlondo3899 it would be hard as we are based in Australia. So shipping would be tough and as every projector and mounting system is different they would all need to be slightly unique. Your best bet would be to find someone in your local area on FB marketplace and then tell them the projector you have (google the exact dimensions) and then add say 30mm to each side and get them to print it. My mate had to do it in 2 sections and then print 2 connectors at the back to join it up. Hope this helps.
@@sss54749 Hey it's definitely something we could look at doing the only issue I can see is getting the correct dimensions and especially mounting system without looking at the projector. If you have an Optoma gt1080hdr then it would be easy as that is the one he printed for me. If not your we could still do it and use the dimensions from the website that your projector is on. The only issue would be sending it which again we could do if we really wanted to. But tbh your best bet like I said would be to go on Facebook market place and find someone in your local area that offers 3d printing (I have used this before with some tees for my Sim). If you give them the dimensions they will be able to knock up a frame in a few days for you. It would be a lot cheaper than me making one and sending it to you. But that could potentially be an option if you have no other choice. In terms of mesh my mate actually used metal flyscreen mesh from Bunnings for the second cage I made and it works perfectly. Unless you live in Adelaide then it really wouldn't be an issue!!
