With auto focus becoming a helpful tool for self-shooting filmmakers, the fact that Panasonic didn't improve on the AF system in the GH5s confuses me. With AF that compares to sony at the least, I would have picked up a GH5s without thought.
I'd go for the Gh5 s.. because Panasonic fixed the low light issue and made it comparable to Sony's A7Sii (and even better because the Panasonic also has a much better colour than the Sony). Pana colours are closer to Canon, Fuji colors tend to be cooler. And we don't care about the lack of stabilizer in the Gh5s because most Pana lenses have lens stablzer. and we use Gimbals and tripods anyway. Panasonic with the beset lenses are half price of Canons and Sony's. problem solved :-)
This low light discussion makes no sense to me in that you're ignoring some important mitigating factors. I shoot with Canon prime lenses with a Metabones speed booster and always shoot MF. The primes I shoot with are already fast: 1.8, 1.4, 2.0. Combined with the speed booster the lenses are very fast and very wide. The GH5 gives me the needed stabilization. It would be a dream set up IF Panasonic made the GH5 with internal NDs. (That's not completely out of the question when you consider the FZ2500. That could be done on the GH5...) It seems to me the combination I use on the GH5 off sets many of the light/aspect ratio advantages the GH5s provides. In addition, most of the best stabilized zoom lenses Panasonic makes cost a LOT of $$$---but they're not nearly as fast as the lens set up I use on the GH5. Plus, I think the Canon glass is better and sharper, and much less expensive than the Pani stabilized zooms. I think my Canon primes plus metabones set up can go quite a way in matching the GH5s low light performance...not all the way, but surprisingly far. I don't see you took these things in consideration adequately. Beyond that, I do have both the 5 and 5s---the you're absolutely right: 5s color is superior, and not by a little bit, especially for skin tones. So I use it in studio on a tripod over the GH5 hands down--with Rokinon lenses and a dead adapter with no speed booster. The 5s plus stabilization native lenses you're recommending still lack really fast lenses--and the combination will set you back close to ten thousand bucks. That's hard to justify when a little creative thinking will save you tons of money and provide superior results in many shooting situations. Just think about the Sigma 18-35 1.8 with .64 speed booster stabilized in camera; super fast and super sharp and almost as wide as an APS-C on the GH5.
Getting proper exposure at the cost of DOF is not the same as getting proper exposure with the intended aperture! The performance in ISO cannot be matched. In other words, If you want a moving subject in focus as you're moving(shoulder rig maybe), And you need an aperture of f4-5.6. With the GH5 you have no choice but to add noise! One sunset shoot on a gimbal and you will see how much further the GH5s goes without compensating aperture or noise. Vlog 8000 ISO without needing noise reduction in post! Plus the wider feild of view. 1.18x crop with Metabones SB XL and Fullframe glass too. BTW, The 18-35 with a .64x will show a vignette do to the 1.85x GH5s sensor!
And I agree the Panasonic lenses are over priced. The 12-35 f2.8 is a 24-70 f5.6 fullframe equivalent! Thats a pretty small aperture for the price IMO!
It's all well and good to say that you can use stabilised lenses with the GH5S, but the reality is, if you want an aperture wider than F/2.8 (which I certainly do) you have only 2 native lenses to choose from, and they are the same 42.5mm focal length. I wouldn't call that variety
Excellent video. You two really covered everything in an excellent and efficient manner; however, it was the red scooter in the background that allowed me to make my final decision.
Guys, I am heavily debating which to buy still. I primarily shoot in gyms and the light isn't ideal. But nowhere near as "low light" as people depict with the GH5S, would I be mostly wasting money buying GH5S for its lowlight capabilities when I am shooting in warehouse gyms/crossfit gyms/ etc. Currently shooting with an OM-D10 Mark III and when my lens is wide open at 2.8 and shutter at 800 it had to jack my ISO alllll the way up to 10,000 to get images and they were definitely grainy.
The biggest thing for me is that addition of timecode. All the VFR settings don't allow you to record audio but with timecode you have a reference to be able to sync to which is pretty awesome
GH5s Has served me very well and is a perfect addition to video content creators and if you are serious about video creation you would either invest in or hire a stabiliser if you need the run around shots... Slow motion in 4k also helps kink out some of those shakes. Also, anyone hear the dixie horn around 19:58? 😂
I needed a GH5, and a second camera. I bought a second GH5 because I wanted to make it easier to match. I also the IBIS was also a factor. When I use the two GH5s and my Panasonic PX 270, it is a struggle to match the GH5s, the PX270 is not 4K but it produces a clearly better image the colours are better and it handles highlights better. The reds on the GH5 are browner and the skin tones don’t look as natural. Do you think a GH5S would be a better match?
I was thinking, if you were shooting in low light, you could use lighting for creative effect rather than because it's essential. Typically, I think I would be using less light for that. Flexibility is good.
This is such a hard call. I have been debating back and forth since the GH5s launched. I have uses for both and I can't decide which. Thanks for making this video but it just made me go through the same debates with myself over and over.
Yep, that is often the way! If it helps, I tend to recommend the GH5s because of the better overall IQ and Low light However the exception to this is if the customer often does very handheld quick shooting, in which case the GH5 IBIS is very useful Carl
Profound Productions I have a gimbal but say you are a trade show filming. You are on tripod for most of it but just need a few dynamic moving shots around a product to use as B roll. Do you want to carry and break out the gimbal, set it up, balance it, all for about 30 seconds to a minute worth of footage? I use this example because it's a real world example that applies to my use case.
HotRodHippie I’d always take at least two cameras for professional work to save time, keep from missing shots, and to have backup in case a camera fails.
These cameras are similar, but different for what you need/use it for. If I were to recommend one I'd say the gh5s has the superior image. That's why we do this right?
It's a decision I'm still making. The GH4 with native lenses is a decent documentary camera, but could benefit from stabilisation like the GH5, and/or better colour science and DR like the GH5s. I don't intend to get a Speedbooster and use Canon lenses because of the much larger lens sizes. My work needs me to move and travel as lightly as possible, so native lenses are preferred to the usual chunky Canon or Sigma counterparts. I left Canon for this very reason. At the same time, the GH5 stabilization would be really helpful. The GH5s can be rigged with a stabilizer, shoulder rig or monopod, but the GH5 would be a lot better for handheld.
Loving this series so far. I am still doubting between these two. Also the blackmagic pocket cinema camera 4k looks very interesting. It is so hard to choose which one to buy.
It does look interesting, but we haven't seen any footage from it yet so I am trying not to make judgements on it too early. Hopefully we will be able to try one out soon Carl
really good review .. really like your casual way of expressing opinions as compare to the other videos you made, very technical one. Its like chatting with friends asking for their opinions on my purchase, unfortunately most of my close friends have no clue what camera means ... so thank you guys!
I do feel you can get around the poor gh5 lowlight by using a speed booster with a sigma 18-35mm f1.8 lens (giving you f1.2 but with the stabilized sensor, you do loose some zoom compared to using the native 12-35mm f2.8 Panasonic lens though). with the gh5s the sigma 18-35mm f1.8 with speed booster will struggle for handheld because of no IS. however if you're using a rig than the gh5s wins with the 18-35, but if handheld the gh5 wins with the 18-35 handheld. Edit: my conflict with the gh5s will be against the new black-magic pocket 4k, where gh5s offers ergonomics and evf but blackmagic does prores and raw (where as I think the gh5 will not have to compete there as it's aimed at different users)
Great video guys. I ordered a GH5s then sent an email to ask if they could change the order for a GH5 because I want the better stabilisation and now I think I want the GH5s instead again. It's a tough one when you want the IBIS and the better colours and the low light performance. I'd be happy with either for different reasons although the better colours of the GH5s may be the decider in the end.
The upcoming GH6 (2019), will most likely have both great features of dual native ISO, with extra processors so it can have IBIS, while still maintaining the fantastic image quality of the GH5s. On top of this, all Panasonic has to do is add an SDI port, for ProRes RAW, and no one will buy the BlackMagic Pocket Cinema Camera 4k.
Having both cameras, with full-frame adapted glass and an Atomos Inferno, I lean towards the GH5s whenever rigged. The GH5 does support 6k anamorphic however only at 400mbps as it disables the HDMI out. Also when using Anamorphic glass you do get IBIS but when using anything wider than a 60mm you'll see the IBIS cut into frame! There are definitely occasions where I like the IBIS but 70+% of the time I like the low light capabilities and lower noise more. There is also a misconception that having fast full frame glass will be better for low light. This simply isn't true!! Yes, you can use fast adapted/boosted glass and get correct exposure but at the cost of DOF and increased Bokeh! At times you will want this look. That's why we use ND filters too! To keep your intended DOF you can only add ISO/Gain to correct exposure. This is where the GH5s simply outperforms the GH5. When using Vlog, you can go up to 8000 ISO before needing noise correction in post!! And now where your GH5 could only go to 1600 ISO @24p the GH5s can shoot 60p, 120p or more without issue! If you're new and this is one of your first cameras, get the GH5. You will grow into it. If you want a more serious camera for narrative work and have the equipment, GH5s all day long. Or just get both.
Your first point was about the colour but then you ended up talking about low light colour. The latter I can understand so did you mean to infer the former? ie. at 200 iso, do you really think the color is significantly different between the cameras?
ProAV TV you said "hands down, so much better colour" so it sounded like a lot. I've had a go at taking reference footage of a color chart and couldn't see anything definitive between them. Maybe a subtle difference just on skin tone but I'd have to retest.
Skin tones are definitely better at any ISO. As good as Canon? IMO no, but very, very good and close to rivaling Canon while not duplicating Canon color.
theoretically cant you get more bokeh with the gh5s... if you frame them both up you are able to move closer to the gh5s have a similar framing but since you are close it will be more bokeh ...anyways I have a g9... this video actually made me want a gh5s
I think the GH5 should be a little bit ahead of the GH5S in the lens department because of the ability to use adapted lenses with IBIS. Being able to use vintage lenses with IBIS is very, very helpful. The GH5S just can't match that.
newfoundmass I feel you, but no real cinema cameras that are industry standard use IBIS. Although it is a very good feature, no cine prime lens has IBIS. In the real film industry everything is all manual! Even the aperture. So it really depends on what you use your camera for. If you are trying to shoot movies, The GH5s is a far better camera, but if you are a run and gun vlogger or music videographer, the GH5 is for you. Facts
Athetradic I'm aware of all of this. Cinema primes can benefit from IBIS since it's independent of the lens, though. The ability to still have image stabilization using lenses that don't have IS built in gives the GH5 the lead over the GH5S in the lens part of this comparison, as it extends the usefulness of non-stabilized lenses for a lot of run and gun / documentary work.
newfoundmass It depends on what you use your camera for. A professional DP will tell you that IS is more of a disadvantage rather than a advantage in certain real film set situations. So if you’re a professional film maker the GH5s wins, if you are a run and gunner you will have to give it to the GH5.
I really hate the "real" film set argument. Is not because it's a film set but rather they have better options and the budget to employ those options. I'd say it's more down to the films budget rather than if it's a real set or not. I'm sure if cinema cameras included things like dual pixel auto focus and an IBIS and non IBIS version of the cinema cameras that it'd be an extra tool to use when needed. But I do agree that the GH5s is the better camera for it's timecode, line in audio and colour.
Ryan Payne it has nothing to do with budget my guy. Yes their budget is something that we independent film makers could never fathom, but the fact that some of these tools like IS and auto focus has been tried in real set environments and a professional DP with tell you that without full control of your camera, you want be able to capture the look that’s acceptable in the professional film industry.
Hey guys, awesome video! I have a GH5s already. Do you guys think it makes more sense for a 2 camera setup to get another GH5s or should I get a GH5 to complement my GH5s? Thanks!
Alpha Phe Productions generally it makes more sense to shoot using the same cameras, just so they match up more, however it isn't too difficult to get these two cameras to match up, especially if you use a color checker.
It depends on the kind of work and what you are having 2 cameras for. If its purely for 2 camera interviews for example then having 2 with the same colour science etc. will make them match as well as possible. However having one of each will be a fantastic combination for more general and varied work, choosing the GH5 for handheld and the GH5s for image quality and low light Plus the colours are close enough that you could definitely match them up by using a colour checker pretty easily Carl
ProAV TV Hi Carl, thank you very much for the detailed reply! Based on my work and what you said, it makes more sense to get the GH5 and have them complement each other and then match them up in post. Anyways, thank you again, have a great weekend!
Is there any chance you can look into or talk about this subject..... Instead of continuing to make camcorder with 1/3”or 1/2 “, sensors such as Sony pxw z150 and z280, why can’t Sony also make a camcorder with the sensor and mount of their D-SLR A7 series cameras. Just imagine a camcorder with the quality, low light ability of A7sii (or the new A7siii), with audio Xlr, no more over heating issues, no more video limit of 30min, Built in ND filters etc etc not forgetting the full frame bokeh!!!!! surely there is a Market for this type of camcorder with a full frame sensor and mount??? So why hasn’t Sony made such a camcorder????? Kull
Great show gents - love your production value - light and sound SPOT ON! - I have both and use them to compliment each other. I need 2 cameras as I am often doing multicam shoots. Or like the built in back up of having a second body on set. (many clients WILL expect this if you are on a professional shoot) GH5 with the Panasonic 12-60 If going super run and gun - this is a superb combo for unplanned event shoots. Especially if outdoors. GH5s with the 12-35 (and my beloved Voigtlander 25 - needs to be really locked down and handled with care for shot steadiness) is pretty damned potent for light challenged shots. ETC mode is your friend for extra reach. Beware a bit of extra noise in ETC though...as its zooming in on the 4k noise particles. The addition of a monopod to the GH5s (or a tripod with an Edelkrone pro slider which means you can go from 1 tripod leg extended monopod style shots in tight situations (and then zip out the other 2 legs and whip in a slide when the opportunity arises) is a cheap way to overcome the lack of IS while retaining the low light ability and super colour of the GH5s. If I had to choose 1 set up its the GH5s with my versatile all in mono / tripod / slider combo. Thankfully though - i dont have to choose. For the investment - you get a HELL of a lot of functionality with the 2 bodies.
Matt Holder - I use the GH4 in a monopod all the time, so a GH5s would fit in really well. But there are times when I have to ditch the monopod, which is where the GH5 would be really handy. Maybe I should get both... $$$ :-(
I own both and would find it hard to choose just one. The IBIS in the GH5 is incredible when you shoot handheld. The low light capability of the GH5S is very impressive. If I know I'll be shooting in low light, I'll go with the GH5S every time. Put it on a gimbal or use a lens with IS if you need image stabilization. The 240 fps is a nice frame rate, but it can severely reduce image quality. You have to be careful and know what you're doing.
Well done. Great info. I never realized that the color science was different on the GH5s. I always thought that it was simply either you were going for low light performance or you were going with stabilization. But there are some additional features to the Gh5s that can make it very appealing. I shoot a lot of weddings, and I would prefer the low light performance over stabilization. A good monopod and lens stabilization can get the job done. Really enjoyed this. Thanks again!
Rather then "Suffer" the way Panasonic has Forced us serious Cinematographers to do, Just wait for The GH6, next year which will have both OiS and dual iso low light capability with the new GH5s color science.... BECAUSE the NEW BMCC (Black Magic Cinema Cam) to be released in September, is going to do some serious damage to the entire Market.
Of course take into consideration that the GH5s does include VLog . So that narrows the price difference. The built in stabilization really only comes into play when using the long end of a lens. If you are shooting on a 70-200mm fully zoomed in you are certainly likely to get some movement but that is true of any cinema camera as well. As you point out, just use a good image stabilized lens. There are tons of shooters who shoot all day and do ENG style work kinda like PBloom and they use monopods to help out if they don't want a shoulder rig. For me the choice is pretty obvious. The 5s is a likely winner for me. I only shoot video and with IS lenses and the trust VILTROX and any monopod you are pretty much good to go. By adding a speedbooster you are taking the slightly larger sensor of the 5s and getting larger than APSC framing. That is a big deal to me. Audio is certainly a big deal and the 5s is more refined. I do like that both cameras have the built in LUT and the 5s allows for custom LUTS (so I'm told) Still the Achilles heel with these cameras is lack of ND so if you are fixated on ultra shallow DOF then you need to slap one on and be prepared for some image weirdness every now and then on VND. Either of these will suffice in my mind over the Sony A7 series as far as video goes simply because the Panasonic does 10 bit vs the 8 bit 4 2 0 on the Sony stuff. Full frame and auto focus is not as critical for me and if you are shooting wide or without an ND most stuff outside is going to end up being in focus unless you are shuttering down to reduce light. The 5s solves the low light issue but frankly the vast majority of people will light something if they have a low light scenario.
You guys are good but are very slow in bringing out your information which is really annoying as an audience watching your film , contents good , delivery is bad , got to work on that mate. Otherwise thanks :")
