Geneva Convention: seems sus 

oh great, now the meme makers have a sample of tom saying "among us"

There's another fun fact about this: Arma 3 uses the Red Diamond in its Laws of War DLC, but this use is in fact legal. See, the Geneva Conventions specifically state that the illegal act is the *unauthorised* use of one of these protected symbols; in the case of Arma 3, the developers actively worked with the International Committee of the Red Cross when developing their Laws of War DLC (which aimed to be educational regarding the Geneva Conventions themselves), and so they were allowed to use the Red Diamond.

I knew this immediately; my favourite game patch note is from Stardew Valley v1.3.32 whoch reads "Fixed a Geneva Convention violation"

This might be a top 3 Tom Scott video title of all time

>videogame >geneva convention I literally dont even need to hear the question, this is about the red cross. This happens all the time lmao especially with indie games cuz they don't have a big enough legal team to help them catch things like this

I have never played Among Us but I knew the answer immediately because I heard of this happening to other video games.

The important "Part 2" of this rule in the Geneva Convention is that while you can't attack people wearing the red cross (or crescent), it is also a warcrime (i.e. a breach of the convention) if you wear the red cross in an effort to decieve the enemy or in any other way obscure your actual intent.

It is worth pointing out, the Red Cross represents/provides more than just medical aid, and part of the issue is all of the incorrect usage of the symbol in media causes a lot of people to fundamentally misunderstand the meaning of the symbol and what the organization does. As a game developer who has had to help remove references from a game, overall I'd say they were quite polite in the initial contact requesting the symbol's removal.

Tom could have chosen many other games, but he chose Among Us Of course, he knows what he's doing, there's a reason he has a long-lived RU-vid career

Johnson & Johnson actually had a trademark on the Red Cross dating back to 1887. J&J actually tried to sue the American Red Cross for trademark infringement in 2007. Judges dismissed J&J claim due to the fact that the US Congress approved regulation granting official and exclusive rights to the Red Cross symbol to the Red Cross. And so it’s one of the rare cases where the United States has claimed sovereign immunity and dominion over a private trademark stating that it is officially not only against an international treaty that the United States was a founding signatory of, but it’s also against US federal law to utilize elsewhere.

Stardew Valley infamously included this in a patch note. There have been a few games that ran into this, the Mega Man Battle Network re-releases changed a graphic for this too.

Laser sights usually have a warning along the lines that directing the laser at people's eyes is against the Geneva convention. Shooting people is fine, but blinding weapons are strictly forbidden.

me knowing this because i knew it also happened with stardew valley, and stardew valley a cute little farming simulator being in violation of the Geneva Convention is just a bonkers thing to say

The list of games that violate this is kind of insane, halo 1 had a medkit with a red cross and you can tell they got in trouble for it because in future games (and I assume the remaster) its a red H

the moment i saw the title i knew exactly what it was about. blink-182 violated the geneva conventions in the same way a while back

Funny thing, I made a revamped version of the medkit in Half-Life 2 as a mod to download. It originally has a red cross on it, but i swapped it to a green one. I got multiple comments calling me an idiot for actually following the Geneva convention saying "it only applies to government bodies".

My immediate reaction to the question was "Oh that's easy".

I now understand why they changed the color of the first aid kits in Subnautica to green. I thought it was such a flawed design choice. Looks like there was an actual reason for this. Amazing.

Me, once I heard the question "Oh this is a thing with the red cross, isn't it?" I looked into that and fell down that rabbit hole when I played newer versions of Wolfenstein 3D and saw their health packs had changed.

its very common for videogames and other media to use a inverted cross to avoid this (white cross on redish background)

Got it -- Red Cross! Guess I've almost been in violation too; I used it for a splash screen on a (personal) rescue disk full of utilities I put together.

I often find myself goiong back to look up the exact phrasing of the question in the middle of the video and it would be so nice if you could put the question into the description so you don't have to skip back and forth for that.

Tom said "violation of the Geneva Conventions" in reference to a video game and I *IMMEDIATELY* got it. I'm talking the moment he said it. I should be on this game show.

Now I'm imagining the design department of some mathbook producer working on the book's cover and the boss walks by and is like. "hey, stop that. don't make that plus sign red or we'll be breaking the Geneva Convention"

The green cross Theme Hospital started with is a pretty common choice (and ICRC seems fine with it), so switching to an asterisk was probably unnecessary.

Earthbound has some funny examples. For starters, the Japanese version used the red cross in its game freely, but the American version took steps to remove them. There are three examples it missed: *On the cover of the box (It's a screenshot of the game set in Threed). *In Burglin Park in Twoson (There's a little label on it that partially obscures the cross). *Inside Dungeon Man (It's depicted at an angle).

I thought about Medic from TF2, as his class icon is a red cross. I read that it's specifically a red cross over a white background (no source on that), and if that were the case then he passes as it's red on orange. Also, apparently Johnson & Johnson sued American Red Cross for trademark infringement of the cross in 2007.

I knew this one instantly. Medkits in the classic 1993 and 1994 first person shooter game Doom bore the red cross and had to be changed for modern rereleases. It changed into a pill symbol.

Minor correction: The Geneva conventions (mostly) predate WW2, with the oldest being 1864

2:10 - Cat!

Another interesting fact: I have seen a red diamond used as indication for running tracks. They massively predate the addition to the Geneva convention though.

What I learn from this: some people don't know what the Geneva Conventions are. I also don't know the details, but the basics as here explained I do know.

0:58 Subtitles "backstep" should be "backstab". Btw, thank you editor for the consistently brilliant subtitling work. On topic, I first learnt about the Red Cross issue in games like TF2 and Doom way back, but it seems discussion in particular blew up with Among Us by sheer popularity.

Man, I break the Geneva Convention every time I do my math homework in red ink.

I do get why instead of trying to have a vague line of what use is acceptable, they just apply the rule extremely strictly.

this is one of the few ones that i knew instantly, which i am happy about :) Lateral with tom scott is becoming one of my favourite things to watch on RU-vid. it is really interesting

One of the many examples of games violating this rule was MapleStory, a Korean MMO, in which a currency related to the Silent Crusade line of quests had to have its colors changed to avoid the red cross symbol

This is why LEGO ambulances have the Caduceus (wrong) or the rod of Asclepius (correct) in a blue star-shape. And indeed the USS Pasteur in Star Trek TNG

1:34 "the Geneva convention is a big deal" underrated joke

great sus game. so perfectly infiltrated modern generations' consciousness, never to leave, ever again.

Off the top of my head Stardew Valley and Skullgirls also had to fix this exact violation, which now that I look at it are two of the least similar games I could have named. It does go to show that _nobody_ is safe from accidentally breaking the Geneva Convention though

Probably the biggest profile video-game who violated this is the original 1993 Doom series, where the medkits have the red cross.

2:06 lol what's the cat doing? xD

this title gave me whiplash

This is just one of those laws that is just pure genius. Not killing medics is such a good idea.

When Tom said something about the design I suddenly heard this echo of a memory in the back of my, something about the red cross being illegal to use. Felt really satisfying to know that was correct

That was the first thing I thought of because Blink 182 had to change the cover art of their album "Enema of the State", on which the nurse had a red cross on her hat. Only the initial pressings have that cover, on the later ones it's just a white hat.

1:06 - the biggest and most subtle flex I've heard in a long time - thank you

Well, this had me go down a research rabbit hole to figure out why I had this notion that it's perfectly fine to use the red cross for actual medical things and not just the official Red Cross organization. Because for a significant portion of my life, I had the red cross associated with anything medical and the Red Cross organization being just a subset of them. And there have been plenty of examples everywhere around me to enforce this understanding. Turns out the symbol has been protected for a long time, but in recent years, they started really cracking down on the abuse of their symbol. I'm not sure how I feel about this... I do recognize the need to distinguish their specific humanitarian organization (which is protected by international law) from other "random" uses like a phone repair shop. On the other hand, this seems to also mean that normal hospitals, ambulances, etc. are not allowed to use the symbol, meaning that they are not protected in any way in wartime? I had the understanding, that in wartime, it's strictly prohibited to attack ANY medical facility/vehicle/person, no matter whether they are a Red Cross member or just any other medical provider. And that using a medical facility/vehicle as a hiding/firing spot for soldiers would in turn be considered a serious warcrime as well. I'm not sure how this will affect future generations, who might not be able to make the simple association "red cross = medical = special protection" anymore because of declining visibility of the red cross symbol...

Now this was fascinating

Imagine working for red cross and your job is to go through every games, media etc. to find these. Idk if it exists, but it might 😆

I was screaming at the TV that it was the Red Cross from the first few seconds. When tom gave a clue I backtracked and thought it might have been the disguise of civilians (as soldiers must be identifiable easily). But red cross is 100% it. Many games have done this before and broken the Geneva Conventions

"Could you not" hits differently when you're British, I think.

That's the reason the James Bond film "The Living Daylights" has a notice at the beginning of the film pointing out the mis-use of the red cross later in the movie, when Soviet forces use equipment carrying the red cross logo as a disguise to enable them to kidnap a defector. The notice notes this is a violation of international law.

I knew this and while reading comments it dawned on me that my all-time favorite game, Battlefield 1942, as well as BF: Vietnam and BF2, appear to have violated the Geneva Convention. It looks like they fixed it for the later games. Another fun fact: The flag of Tonga has a red cross in the corner and in 1862-1866 the flag was nearly identical with a red cross on an all white field and had to be changed because of the similarity. The First Geneva Convention was adopted in 1864.

I am happy that I believe that I know this little bit of trivia.

I figured this out as soon as someone mentioned a symbol. I had read about this a few months ago. Well, read about the protected status of the Red Cross, not about Among Us.

What do you mean you "had" a channel called Tom Scott Plus? Don't tell me it's permanently over?

Is this why our medicine cabinet at work has a green cross on it?

What about real life first aid kits? I know I had one as a "leftover" from my military training, and I saw one of those quite recently with a prominent red cross on it. I noticed though that "heart starters" (automatic defibrillators) don't use the symbol.

Yeah I knew this one. Other video games have been caught out by this also.

I knew about this from doom, all of the recent official rereleases have swapped out the original medkit sprite but because the original game was open source its just out there in the wild

First time I’ve ever watched Lateral and come up with the answer before the guests even got close.

now we know why he always wears red

1:00 Let me guess. Red cross on white background in med bay?

Oh yes, I knew it when Tom said it was a particular design, because I remember Mother 2/Earthbound was similarly in violation!

As an international humanitarian law specialist, this hurt a little bit but was still quite fun. Also, it's shows that we have an issue with the people's appropriation of international law if even very knowledgable people don't know ANYTHING about some of the most fundamental treaties that protect them.

Wow, didn't know it meant this much and how some of my fav games had to learn this, as well, but is interesting to clear up that subtle detail I subconsciously noticed without really thinking it through why and how.

I remember some vintage Lego sets that had red crosses on ambulances, etc.

I love that title

Very funny that they used among us. My immediate thought was that it would be something to do with online, potentially data security, since thats the easiest way for a game to break the law

Why is it I can see Gary Brannon being the one telling you you would be in breach of the GC......

thank you Rhythm Doctor for letting me know about this fact beforehand :D

off to a good start with "what is Among Us" and "what is the Geneva Convention"

I love this fact. Next pub quiz i write, this is taking pride of place!

I'm glad that this is a highlight

Omg is this why the Medikits in the Steam release of DOOM have green crosses??

This is the first question I literally immediately knew the answer to, despite not knowing this particular bit about Among Us.

That's so interesting, and it makes a lot of sense! Everyone knows the symbol of the red cross: it's the medical symbol. So in a way we can say that the symbol is "famous", but then the problem comes up when people want to use the symbol for medicine-adjacent things or other things, because then it loses it's power

Tom @05:25: "We're looking for a specific symbol..." AH! The Red Cross!

I actually used to be part of the Red Cross and this was in our training. But I played Among Us just twice, a couple years ago, and I totally forgot about every aspect of it, lol, so I didn't get it until the very end

"Geneva convention? More like Geneva suggestion"

Tom said he "had" a channel called Tom Scott Plus.... Does that mean Tom Scott Plus has ended?

I knew this one right away, it's such a common mistake made in games that ends up having to be changed.

One of the questions on this show I actually knew the answer to :D

0:14 This has do be the fastest of these I've seen. There have been hundreds of games that have angered the red cross.

As soon as I heard "among us violated the Geneva convention," I immediately knew it was the red cross, not because I knew the among us story, but the Blink 182 story. It is by far and away the most common violation basically the world over.

“I don’t know the questions, I certainly don’t know the answers… unless I just happen to know the answers”

When he said it was a forbidden design, I already knew.

Immediate thought: Among us probably used the red cross somewhere.

More interesting would be to talk about the dispute/ lawsuit of the red cross and Johnson & Johnson which sells first aid products with the symbol of the red cross on them.

I knew the answer before even clicking on the video LMAO

It's weird that they blocked the green cross. It's been what developers used for medipacks and all because the red one is blocked... Though, I wonder if someone will ever use a red cross (or their equivalents in other regions) and use them accordingly - as a "no conflict zone" inside a war/battle game.

Tom nearly in trouble? It's madness! 😆👍

I knew this as soon as the question arose, I remember the same thing happening to the developers of "Prison Architect".

When Tom says sus 😳

even though youtube isn't showing it I must have watched this video before, bc why else would I have known this random fact about among us and the Geneva convention xD

I heard about that from a Stardew valley tiktok, saying it commited a war crime. click bait for it isnt war crime after a quick google search, but it did get me to watch it and learn something new

Oh man, there's a thrift store chain here in Copenhagen that really needs a cease and desist letter.

It sounded like tom said "amung uzz" at the start XD