What are we market watchers or watch collectors?? Find a piece you love, buy at the best price you can at the moment, enjoy it, move on. All this market talk is exhausting and getting really tired. It’s adding an unnecessary element of stress to an otherwise enjoyable hobby.
@@DC-si8xw I didn’t mean just T&H, I meant the RU-vid watch collecting genre as a whole. Rather than stop watching I prefer to add my feedback and hope for change.
Remember when tech companies were developing self-driving cars? They didn’t care about cars, they wanted the driver data. I think part of the Rolex CPO rollout is a data play around who is buying/selling, where, when, and what. The more of that data they can pull into their ecosystem, the better. Rolex employs a number of data analysts now and is hiring more - of course in QA and production, but also in their Planning organization specializing in flow planning, stock rotation and other steering indicators. They want data analysts with SAP, PowerBI, Tableau, and other tools familiar to data nerds. Could be a coincidence, but I doubt it.
Finally…someone gets it! Rolex could care less about making a few extra $s off flippers. This is about data and long term business modeling. I take my hat off to you, Sir.
You guys are so right about the whole Rolex thing. I'm in the position of wanting a Rolex Sea Dweller SD43 but it's as a upgrade to my old watch - a Seiko 5 that was given to me 45 years ago for becoming a teenager! - and I'm not a collector, flipper, grey market dealer, I'm just someone who wants a good watch to wear daily that will be my last watch! I've been on a wait list with my local AD since July and, now, are noticing that grey market prices are getting within a thousand UK pounds of retail. What really bugs me is, I'd like the pomp and ceremony of buying my one and only watch with the people who actually make them (Rolex), rather than scrubbing around for the best deal on something so expensive SECOND HAND! Oh well, guess I'll wait til January and see if the grey market drops and if my AD gets one in, meh!
In California at least, I know most of the boutiques aren't even owned by Rolex. So you're not buying from the people that made the watch. In fact Tournneau owns and operates the Rolex, Tudor, IWC, Breitling, JLC boutiques (and probably others) at the South Coast Plaza in Orange County. Find a grey market dealer u trust and go get your watch.
He does sound silly when he acts like a big timer. Don’t brag to the rest of us some who can’t afford and others than can and often don’t . Most people with money don’t talk about their g-wagons and first class flying.
I think there is a twisted comparison and analogy between airlines and Rolex/ADs. With airlines, you build frequent flyer air miles and loyalty points to get access to perks (lounge, express lane) and discounts / complimentary upgrades. Similarly you buy watch miles with your AD. BUT, where the comparison gets twisted is an airline will welcome you to purchase business or first class seats whenever you have the means. If demand exceeds supply they’ll just push up the price. Rolex ADs need you to build up miles in (relative) economy first, with the (relatively) less sought after models (Cellini, OP, etc). Rather than push up the price, this is how they manage excess demand, and maintaining luxury brand perception. Certified pre-owned is another expression of this, as it enables you to trade in those hard earnt economy miles, for a new business class flight. If all you wanted all along is that one business or first class watch, and you have the patience of a saint, this works for you. You eventually arrive at your destination after experiencing many others along the way you hadn’t planned to.
If you like it buy it. IF you can afford it. I'm not a watch trade I'm a watch lover. If the price goes up great. If it goes down I don't care. I'm not selling. I'm wearing. To many Rolex selling make money of one silliness lead to this. I don't care what you do, it's your life. Do what you want.
What I strongly dislike about Christian, is how much I discover him and I are alike through every video. Started off with style, vintage taste, and other similarities. But to hear he also wouldn’t queue for anything (something my Fiancé hates about me) not travelling in coach where possible, definitely wouldnt take the bus, bars with music too loud, the list goes on. Sometimes its like looking into a traits mirror. Couldn’t be a real mirror because im pale, ginger and British.
Yeah I try to give his videos a go and then he starts talking. This is one of the douchy-er watch channels out there. His co-host is actually pretty good but seems to be stuck to Christian's hip.
@@charlieallen9565 How can you compare douchy -ness of the flex watch dealer dbags to these relatively low key guys? The slick dealers in Philly, LA, Miami with the tattoos, Lambos, G-Wagens don’t top your dbag list?
This is why I went Omega. I hate sucking up to ADs who really don’t know much about watches - only so many times you can hear the speel on how the x,y,z was invented and fain interest
100%, I always wanted the Daytona, plain black with the ceramic black bezel, but the omega speedy 3861 in hesalite was in the omega section and something flipped in me like a switch. I waited months and months and the feeling wouldn’t go away, this was march of 2021. Fast forward to now and I’m officially buying the omega speedy in a few weeks after having saved. Beyond rich in history, more understated than Rolex, and imo fits my personality and tastes more. Rolex ADs use their hype to justify their personality and I can’t stand them
@@Propofol001’m in exactly the same position as yourself. As soon as I recently tried the 3861 with that tapered bracelet it just “hit me” and took me back to where I started. I’m pulling the trigger on one, in the new Year also, around my birthday in January 👍
Last year the Casio Mudmasters MR-Gs MT-Gs were asking $800-$1000 and this year I've seen as low as $400 on Ebay. These are my kind of watches that I think are Luxury. They're solar powered and self adjusting with Multiband 6.
I purchased a Hulk at msrp in an AD. I was not interested in selling it at the height at $30,000 and I will not be interested in selling it when they drop to reality at $6,500
Comparing the Rolex CPO program to the airline reward program is apples & oranges. A better comparison is to the auto industry CPO. The automotive CPO program is attractive at first with an extended warranty and a certified inspection to bring the car into current specs. As you buy more used cars you realize that certain brands like Toyota & Lexus for example, are so reliable that you do not need to pay extra for CPO. I think the same holds true for Rolex. Its watches are very reliable and built to take punishment. The other strong point for buying Rolex CPO is the guarantee that the watch has genuine Rolex parts. This of course is not necessary if you buy from a trusted gray market source. The only strong point for Rolex CPO is to build a "relationship" with the AD to get a chance at new pieces like the Daytona.
I personally think at bucherer they are very smart and they put a daytona at 60k to make the world talk about it… and free advertisement is done…I might be wrong
What if Rolex and/or ADs will require people to buy CPO before they can be added to the waiting llst? This solves many problems with current waiting list situation for Rolex, no?
Looking forward to picking up a pre-owned DJ41 at a pre-owned (see: less than AD retail) pricing. All markets tanking = discretionary luxury goods on fire sale.
I pay for convenience and services. For me it’s about the value of my time. Luxury items are great but there are limits. Gray market prices of 2-3x don’t really fly with me although I recognize that coming from someone that will pay to fly private for business sounds hypocritical. I am very intentional with what pieces I add to my collection. If I don’t love it and want to hand it down to my boys; it doesn’t get added.
I will forever be indebted to you, you’ve changed my whole life, I’ll continue to preach about your name for the world to hear. You’ve saved me from a huge financial debt with just little investment, thank you so much Mr Abbreu John
Mr Abbreu John changed my life, he has been amazing, ever since I met him, my life took a positive turn because of the passive income through him, he really is a professional trader and awesome person
The Submariner on Rolex site Stainless with date is $10,100 two tone $14,700, The Deepsea $14,150 and $13,850, will the average Joe ever be able to purchase anywhere at these prices?
Alas, no. It was similar with our parent's generation being able to buy a home with one income. That's unfathomable these days. Rolex is heading for Patek unobtainable territory.
It depends how bad the worldwide recession of 2023 is. And even then - it will only be temporary - there will be a recovery when it ends, people who came through relatively unscathed will have a lot of ‘dry powder’. Also depends where you live - the waiting lists in major metro areas are long.
I moved from NYC to Boston and it’s been much easier here to have a relationship with an AD that stocks multiple watch brands. Giving me the easier opportunity to buy Rolex at list from an AD. A little over a decade ago I was buying Rolex for well under list, I bought a sub in Hartford, Ct for 25% below list. So who knows what will happen with the economy and Rolex. Definitely a-lot more available watches recently, specially if you want a date just or day date or gold/platinum/two tone sub. I’ve been offered a few but waiting for one of the special dials to come available. Many more local jewelers here have dropped their used Rolex prices so you might want to start looking in the new year. Like anything that has to do with luxury and fashion prices with cycle if your willing to wait. Rolex is not Patek and even Patek fluctuates just at a much higher price point. My white gold/green aquanaut was purchased at retail in nyc about 4-5 years ago. Now they’re crazy but weren’t at that time, blue or black was the popular color then. But I wanted one since it was released in green 20 years ago and I missed out, not worth what they were reselling for then, waited and it was worth waiting for.
I was offered that $10,100 Submariner today for $13,700 on the grey market (C24). I didn’t pull the trigger because I feel the price will get closer to retail during Q1 2023.
Flying United is special?! I am amazed... the worst 2 flights in my life were with United in business class. Compared to other airlines, bottom of the lot.
Sorry but Davidoff Cigars are not from Switzerland. The brand Davidoff is from Swiss, but the cigars are mostly made in Dominican Republic and Nicaragua. Not a single Davidoff cigar is made in Swiss. So it is not similar to the Focals there. The Focal brand is French and they make their speakers and headphones in France.
you paying more in airlines so you get extra, extra luxury , saving time better comfor. free food alcohol etc. tbut by spending more just buying from rolex what extra you would have ? paperwork?
This month I got contacted by my AD, Rolex watches are available at my dealer, wasn’t what I wanted. Although the dealer stated he’ll have a bunch more in February and give me a call again then. Wound up buying a GS SBGK015 he had in back stock, amazing dial. Agree the market is definitively changing, definitely see a lot more grey or used Rolex’s on the market. Including what used to be harder to find watches sitting on the market and not moving.
I hear you. Two weeks after purchasing my 39mm Rolex OP, several years ago, I came across my first Grand Seiko. It was a high beat with a reddish dial, and I felt it knocked the socks off my OP by a mile (same thing for my Aqua terra which I liked better than my OP). The elaborate casework, hands, the dial... It was just amazing. The OP has long since been gone, but I recently purchased a Grand Seiko Hi beat GMT, MT Iwate, and I'm blown away by its beauty every time I look down at my wrist.
Ferrari has that game- buy a used Ferrari from a dealer and perhaps two used cars and then they will add you to their list to get an allocation on a new model. Makes sense for Rolex dealers to do the same.
I’m thinking Rolex is doing the CPO programme to ride on the inflated brand value over past years! Pricing the CPO at much higher price than Grey market is harmless to the current secondary market. Question is:- why Grey Market will be dumping Rolex?
I feel like reasons why there is CPO or certified pre-owned because the market of new Rolex that comes through is very rare and why not purchase it being that every Rolex is practically hard to get! meaning any Rolex is really rare just to find and available to be purchased. Beggars can't be choosers if they're not the one who's going to be making it.
Rolex valuations being held up with bubblegum. Austin Daniels had a video on an auction of three Neumann Rolex watches that yielded disappointing results. Those were not the new models stockpiled by speculators that manipulate the auction market so no huge bids to hype the memorabilia watches that are much rarer than the hot speculation Rolex models.
the bubble will have to explode, stock, crypto, house, gpu... we saw all kind of hypes go back to msrp, time for watches to be normal purchase again, not some sacred-religious-vip-waitlisted thingy !!!
Great discourse as it touches so much more than just watches. 👍.. thanks for great content as always. Have a great xmas break and come back stronger in 2023. Greetings from Brunei.
Rolex are a hypocrite. I went to look at two watches last week one was the submariner and the other was a seamaster. I like both but in the end bought the seamaster because I could have it now, I not going to wait 2 or 3 years for it. Rolex told me I couldn't buy it because of the gray market. Now rolex are selling rolex on the grey market
So suppose Bucherer has a Daytona in stock, what do they offer the customer? Hey you can have a brand new Daytona for $14K or one a couple years old for $65k...?
Nobody holding 30 Daytonas/Nautiluses is posting them on Crono24, eBay, etc. They’re ringing up their grey dealer and selling to them and the dealer will buy at rock bottom and hold.
Rolex is taking back the profits you Grey dealers have been taking and by taking advantage of Rolex by encouraging their customers to flip watches to you.
Sell your unwanted rolex's ASAP.... the next 2-4 years a severe buyers market coming ..... IMO only. It doesnt feel dire now ~ OF course.... but wait a bit. Robert Downey JR has great taste...... pleasure watching this channel when I get the chance.
Gentlemen, you must look deeper into the mist to understand what Rolex are really doing. The long-term plan of Rolex is to issue Certifications, similar to GIA in the diamond market. If your buying a used Rolex (less than 5 years old) it must have Certification (CPO). Grey Market dealers will be encouraged to send their (less than 5 year old) Rolex for CPO Certification, and then be able to sell, as customers are now going to ask, is it CPO?
23 is simply not going to be the same as 22. No idea if it will be worse or better. The numbers are stacking up pretty much to say it will economically be worse. But there are so many other factors. If Russia and Ukraine settle down, and China opens up a bit, it could change the global economic picture dramatically. But if there is a recession, deals on used and new Rolex models will happen.
So many vested interests talking the market down, or up... depending on their inventory or wishes... These pair are no different. Buyer and seller beware... do your own due diligence but if you own already... remember to love, cherish and obey... in good health, of course!
Lol regular people first class I love some of the banter then i remember him hiding his rolexes from his maids in his dads house before elite brunch. I am ambiguous about this guys perspective and outlook on reality.
Their rich people stories definitely isolate their audience, even on a luxury watch channel. Just the way he's talking about being anxious and not wanting to talk to a girl asking to borrow his charger because he's in coach class is kinda atrocious. Not a good look at all.
I was thinking exact same thing, but deleted my comment, then saw other say same thing.....the last video I watched he talked about how (his words) "Ghetto" his Dad is by illustrating that with the story of his Dad hiding their dual Rolexes in a sock when maid came over to clean their apartment....... I almost thought it was a joke, but it wasn't. I am only half way done with vid, it is getting worse, pretty entitled dudes.
People are too negative. Prices for Rolexes going down and being available is great. The other brands are stupidity increasing their prices. When Rolex comes back to the normal market, the other brands need to lower their prices to compete and Rolex fans can get a Rolex at a decent price with short waiting list. This is great for watch enthusiasts.
@@kkz9418 I bought my first Rolex in 2005. A Sub. I now have three Rolexes in total. In 2005 I walked in to the AD, told her what I wanted, she put it in front of me on the counter. I asked for a discount, she said yes, gave me a good one, and I walked out with the watch. “Never” is a long time.
@@grammarboy1318 I didn’t mention about the past mate. What I am saying is from what Rolex has become currently, having built the prestiges status how they wanted the brand to be. You gotta play the Rolex game now to obtain one, that is what they wanted. Do you really think they will decrease their prices and let every average joe, bob and bill to obtain one? If so, I’d certainly would love one.
@@kkz9418 Rolex doesn’t control secondary market prices. They have no say in whether prices go up or down. Secondary market prices are determined by the level of supply from ADs and demand from flipper, dealers and individual enthusiasts. If the economic situation continues to decline then there will be less demand from flippers / dealers, which will reduce secondary market prices and we’ll be on our way back to how things were in 2005.
@@zjmustard err , u said rolex doesn’t control the secondary market Cus it’s determined by supply to ad , flippers and dealers. Sounds to me it’s still controlled lol. Now that they’re moving into secondary market, they have more control over their goods.
rilex is a way over rated watch brand. You buy way more complicated watches from historically significant watch brands for around the same price. Doesn't make sense.
Also the obvious deal is if you buy from a Rolex dealer used you know the watch is real and not a fake. There is the risk of buying from dealers like yourselves.
A friend of mine went into an AD for a sub, he's been told there is a wait but they don't know how long. What's the deal with Rolex, don't they want to sell them? I mean they make around a million a year so where do they all go if you can't buy one. One can buy an Omega or an IWC or Hublot without issue. I personally don't get the hype, I have a couple of micro brand watches that sport all the same features, even a Swiss movement albeit not Rolex and bought for a fraction of the price of a Rolex.
Quite a different tune from you ‘Rolex prices have stabilized’ video - sounds like you’ve come to understand the macroeconomic realities - Fed turns off the money printing and raises interest rates = ☠️ I’m with you Christian - premium economy is ok on red eyes where I’m going to sleep - but otherwise all business, all the time. And with the huge chgs to the loyalty programs and so many planes getting parked, the prices have gone up as upgrades are very hard to get.
Lol everybody crazy about the santos. U guys chase the hype and nobody sees timeless designs on their own anymore….sad what the watch market has become. Flooded by jerks with no clue
Had 4 Rolex,absolutely kak . There is a big difference between a Rolex production watch - watch manufacturer, when Seiko make a production watch of far better quality. If you want a watch maker to build a watch then D.Dornbluth & Sohn
All the smart people who actually like watches and not flexing are looking forward to the coming crash…it’s going to be glorious. F Rolex’s business practices. They have tarnished the image an amazing brand.
Not gonna happen to the degree u guys think. There will be a crash but hell no u will never get a kermit or hulk for under 15k again let me tell u that. These times are over
