I found Titanium in my Engine oil as early as 7,000 Miles, small amounts. But at 14,000 the ppm had oin creased slightly, My Oil Analysis Company was Blackstone Laboratories and they were very concerned, suggesting i have the heads removed and inspected. I had an extended warranty but the Dealer would only work on it if it was broken. So I paid a private shop to pull the heads and had the GM Warranty inspector visit. With the heads sitting on a table he claimed he saw no damage. I asked him to stay as we removed the valve springs on my agreement to pay for labor if nothing was wrong. When spring retainers cam off and the springs remove every intake valve fell out of the head. He agreed that was worn and he authorized the New Heads and Intake Springs, gaskets and labor, Totally $7,000. But i had to pay to drop the oil pan to clean bearings from the rocker arms from the Oil intake screen, $1,000 But worth it for piece of mind. I wonder why no idea from GM or any of the Corvette Tube Tube posters say anything about the early warning Titanium in the oil cam provide. I saved my LS7 for $35 oil Analysis and GM Paid the repair as I showed them the oil trace reports and the worm parts in front of them. Let no LS7 die before its time, test its oil. D
Great information as always. I owned a 2006 Z06 for 10 years and 18k trouble free miles. I didn’t track the car or beat on it. I drove it hard on occasion and always maintained it. Only complaints were the crappy sway bar end links and a few of the interior pieces. The LS7 is a phenomenal power plant.
Finally found a shop in Western Canada that is very well versed on the LS7 head issue. They have a great OEM resolve! Davenport Motorsports in Calgary. Taking my 09 over next month. Hope it all goes well.
@@lebojay Sorry, just realized this was an old post of mine. I did have my heads done. Davenport gets OEM completely refurbished heads from Lingenfelter. They come with inconel exhaust valves, replacing the titanium stock valves. They are ported and polished. Davenport, did a great job, and I kept my engine stock otherwise. I had four new Michelin Pilot Sport tires installed. Their tech did an amazing four wheel alignment and explained and showed how poorly OEM rides are usually set up. My Z runs great, and steers perfect. It's not cheap, quality costs, but pays big dividends. Thanks Davenport! Hope this helps Lebojay :-)
I have an '07 crate LS7..an early one as rev limit in the ecm & literature was listed at 7200, now all say 7000... I bought the early OEM tank, but never ran it opting for a 3 gal Peterson tank... nearing 30K miles now in my '62 Belair it powers...trackday driven as well as cross-country toured...I built it and moved on with new builds...unaware of the valve issues. Now though thinking maybe dodged a bullet NOT knowing...LOL! Thanks for the Katech tip on the heads, I was contemplating what direction to go to secure it's livelyhood...
Hi after I talk to you after the first video last year about the LS 7 I took my 2008 Z06 heads to Katech had them do head was $3200 with shipping feel that I am safe now Dan at Katech is very informative 😊
One thing I would like to say. I have bought some equipment from Lyle. Let me just say, he I just a wonderful person. I enjoy talking with him and dealing with him.
Got to meet Lyle @ C&S this past week. He was as nice as he is tall. I’m amazed that he can somewhat be comfortable in a Corvette . He took the time to show me around and we talked about cars the hobby and what they do at C&S. Thanks again for taking the time to talk to me and show me around . Keep up the good work. Our hobby need more guys like Lyle. If you need parts ,service or are looking for a Corvette check them out.
Interesting that he's tall. I'm 6' 6" and would love to own a Corvette, but it's just too uncomfortable, so I had to "settle" for a Camaro (the existence of the back seat, as tiny as it is, allows me to lean the seat back far enough to feel comfortable).
@@DoctorHemi Sometimes it’s where you height comes from . Maybe it’s in your legs some people it in the body. I think Lyle is 6’9” + . I’m 5 6 5 7 if I stand straight. He towers over me .
this oil starvation is also present on the base C6 ?? i read that a solution for this on hard accelerations and performance driving is to change for a bigger oil pump and reservoir ?
I confess to babying my 08 Z06 as well. I enjoy straight line speed, but use 6th for that. Never sees even 6k but will touch 100+ on rare occasion. Car is beautiful.
It's my understanding that the valve problem is a machining error at the factory where the exhaust valve guide and seat are not concentric, thus leading to side loads on the valve stem with excessive guide wear. I don't think that simply installing new valve guides will correct the fundamental problem. Is there a way to remachine the head to realign the valve guide bore and the valve seat?
Machining has nothing to do with it. The nickel coated the entire intake valve and that coating wears over time. The sodium filled stems transferred heat so well it cooked the could in the valve guides and abraded the valve guide. That coupled with the cheap guides caused excessive wear. The valve guide wear cause the valve to move around in the quid and eventually crack and fail dropping a valve in the engine. The fix is solid brass guides, SS exhaust valves and properly dual coated intake valves.
I went with the C7 Z06 I really wanted to go with the LS7 but the valve guide issue and not knowing how the car was driven it's not past a seller to remove a supercharger and return it to stock and you end up with a headache
I love my LS7. So much so, I couldn't justify getting any of the newer versions. I'm probably one of the few with about 120,000 miles on the clock. The engine uses virtually zero oil and still runs like a raped ape. And I've done all the proper maintenance. At 100K: new belts, plugs, HT wires and coil packs. Oil changes have been done according to GM's oil monitoring system. Using Amsoil signature 100% synthetic and a WIX XP filter. Every time I get into the car, I keep asking myself, "now, why was I thinking of selling this?..." I mean, it still feels new! I've kept the engine bone stock. Even still use the later Z06/ZR1 Donaldson powercore element...Mine's a 2013, so I do have the 10.5 quart system.
The irony and truth is , most everything has bugs. But when you’re told them up front and the solutions , it makes for a much more solid buying experience. This should be the standard for all manufacturers , because I’m more likely to buy something knowing what and how to fix issues rather than something with a reputation and figure it out as you go. So I believe this guy just did GM a favor.
Interesting as Zora Duntov was the one who created the 'secret" vette for racing as we know today as the Z06. So your insider needs to use a different alias.. :) As t doesn't give him credence in this case. Seriously though both the GS and Z06 are phenomenal cars in the C6 flavor I would take either. Albeit I have the 09 Z06 and love it.
I’m local in Florida , I’m looking at a Z06 not molested or modified. It’s a 2008 with 25k miles on it verified all maintenance done by local dealer everything checks out never had any issue. I know this has been answered many times perhaps , I’m coming from a long term ownership with mustangs from the 5.0 to the 2011 GT500 and GT350 VODOO engine 0 issues . I don’t race or plan to beat on my cars. My question is what’s your opinion on the valve issue ? Is this something to be a concern ? I saw you last video explaining the basics of the LS7 I just afraid of the drop valve issues long term. Thank you kindly .
From my data logs of oil pressure, I’ve seen no signs of oil starvation on a racetrack with the above modifications to my ‘08 Z oil tank. Also, I installed an oil catch can in between the oil tank and the intake manifold and it has always been bone dry! The Aivaid tank baffle is outstanding at trapping the oil in the tank and letting the air out the top vent. I’d highly recommend sending an oil sample to Blackstone to check for Ti in the oil. My engine only had 3.5ppm and the oil was full of glitter! New rotating assembly for me! Sheesh.
Nice Video like always, thank you. I ask myself, what happend if you move a C5 into a Racetrack, without the Dry Sump System? I remember reading in my C5 Booklet, when you go to a Racetrack, you should do 1L more into your Oil System. And when you leave the Racetrack, pull out the 1L again.
I have an 08' Z06 with 49k. No problems at all. I drive normally with some spirited driving now and then. No track. Car cruises and fun stuff. Don't think plunking down big $$$ for heads, cam and other mods is really worth it. Raising HP can mean more problems. I just drive and enjoy the car.
How much valve slop is too mutch? I have a extremely early LS7 its got 12K and maybe has 5-6 thousandths? no intentions to beat in any way. What do you think?
Another great video, Lyle! I do have a question, my C6 Z06 has a replacement engine that was built at the Bowling Green Performance center in 2015. Do you know if they kept all the rotating internals (pistons, rods, crank) the same as they did back in 2008/2009 when my Corvette was built? Any information would be most helpful. Thank you, and keep up the great content!
That is a great question, but I have no answer to it as my insider left GM before 2012 and doesn't know about what was or wasn't used at the Bowling Green facility. Lyle
I'm in the process of purchasing a 2011 Z06 with 10,000 miles. That's some good information. Any other advice to check? Buying one from the Volo Museum.
At this point in time, any head upgrade would suffice. There are so many options and they work well. Very sad GM is doing this to loyal corvette owners. What’s even sadder is the fact that the new Z06 is marked up to 200k
Hello, I have a question on my 2013 Grand Sport LS3 engine with dry sump. My window sticker says that the engine was made in Mexico. Was the engine still put together by hand ?
@@joefrancisquini1843 Then the block and heads may have been manufactured in Mexico, but it was assembled in Wixom, MI and has all the goodies that I mention in the video. Lyle
Hey Lyle, is the oil starvation by the inferior tank in the 06-08 Z06 what causes the dropped valve issue well known on the Internet to grenade the engine? Just curious if the two are related. 🤔
The 2 are definitely not linked to each other. The starvation would lead to engine failure and this is caused by dry sump system design and the valve guide issue during early years was due to heads being machined incorrectly and also the valves are titanium whereas the valve guides are bronze, as titanium can be very abrasive, it leads to valve guide wear and eventually dropping that valve if the 2 are out of spec.
If I had one of these cars, I would still do the Katech heads on it...sort of how people "bullet-proofed" the Ford Power strokes from the early/ mid 2000's. I think it is a worthwhile investment for peace of mind, especially if you push the car hard. Lyle :)
All the big auto manufacturers make decisions like this at some point...remember the Ford Pinto? GM's troubles have far more to do with every issue being decided by a committee and the bean-counters, in my opinion. Lyle
Sad that GM would "lie" ,all about MORE profit !! That being said, I wish they would put like a tattle tail button with memory and I would bet the average buyer (here in Florida) drive an average of 40-50 mph and IF any one of them ever hit 100 the number would be even less but at least they wouldn't be able to lie cause you would be able to call them in it by pushing a button. Still jealous of anyone that has one !!! 2002 convertible here.
Has anyone ever trusted the HR people where they work? They exist to keep the company safe, right? I remain amazed at the trust factor for Vette Techs in general. There are good ones out there. But I have seen a tech and a service dept mgr lie in arbitration and get caught. I've seen the head tech for GM straight faced tell early owners who track their C8s not to add that extra quart to their transmissions because of the roughly '200' or so data points being tracked and controlled and yada yada yada. How many got new transmissions if they didn't add that quart? Also saw an early C8 block add curtains and internal mention of others having same, but then the stories disappeared... mid-production correction? I myself was told an issue 20+ years ago absolutely could not happen with the old column lock issue occurring while in motion, yet it did. Story upon story upon story. I think most people will do what is right. But when money and income are on the line and responsibility can be deferred from the individual to the company as a whole, then the opportunity for that company's character to slide due to the actions of individuals becomes possible. Great that 'Duntov' is coming forward here 20 years later. Where was this deep throat when owners were getting hosed and GM clearly knew all about it? I remain a Corvette guy, but I don't give the General my funds and the few I have bought have come from sellers going away from GM, typically moving upscale. Never trust a dealer. Heck, my friend OWNS a GM dealership now... and.... you guessed it.... I never trusted him as a kid, and I for sure don't trust how he operates now. And I have heard only a mere sliver of his stories over time. I still love all things Corvette. But lawd I won't let anyone else touch mine with a wrench or even a scanner. Especially not a GM tech. Therefore, I very much do appreciate the chop shops and guides out there like Lyle and Marc who keep it easy for us to keep going.
@@cheezmo2k price point is not the only factor in the decision, the C6 Z06 is a fixed roof coupe, if you want the Targa Top or Convertible then price has nothing to do with it. @B Dun They are both great cars the C6 Z06 is legendary in no way does that make it better than a GS, depends on how you intend to use the car. Truth be told if you want to do a perfomrance build (mod) on the LS3 it will out perform the LS7 and be reliable. It will cost a whole lot more to do the same to the LS7 and have it be reliable. Just look at the C6 ZR1 , its an LS9, the block is basically an LS3 block with a few enhancements same displacement supercharged.
I tuned in just for that and got the answer I needed. I was originally just hoping to get away with replacing the guides but it also makes sense to do the heads.
You guys use too light of oil, needs at least straight 30 weight to prevent wear and cushion those machines duh! I could get oil pressure light on in my junkers, duh, yes need to upgrade dry sump duh! Princesses need not drive! ;)
More bollocks. You haven’t even discussed the issue of valve drop. Engine failures with low mileage stock engines . They should be up front now instead of dancing around the subject.
