Gobekli Tepe Olive Trees: Threat to Site or Erosion Control? 

10,000 years no erosion. But suddenly we need to plant olive trees to prevent it

I think jimmy is more ticked off that they've said they dont plan to excavate the whole site we know is there for another 150 years. This site is like 10% uncovered. It just seems like there is always something keeping us from discovery . I hate to say it but the british colonial archaeologists made more progress with dynamite and pick axe than modern archaeologists have with all of the modern tools.

Spot on, Dan, with your final words in this video. Archaeologists with a combative attitude are saying things more ridiculous than conspiracy theorists. Apparently there is also a law from the 1930's in Turkiye that says that it's illegal to remove olive trees. Obviously if some have been removed already to allow for the buildings on the site, that law doesn't apply to someone who has the right political clout there. Talk of no further excavation beyond the current excavated parts of the site for 150 years or more, or even more ridiculous, sealing the site with concrete, is the craziest knee-jerk reaction that I've ever seen from "scientists". Certainly Jimmy Corsetti expounds some things that I don't agree with, but he is right about the fact that mainstream archaeologists don't want investigations into any site that might overturn the conventional archaeological narrative. I think that the mainstream archaeologists have about the same credibility as most politicians.

I believe there is the other problem though... apparently there is a law that does not allow you to remove Olive trees...

Ben from UnchartedX noticed the same type of things happening in Egypt where archaeologists are covering up ancient sites bebind bricks. Something is going on.

I commented this same question to Flint Dibble. His response was exactly the same. The trees will prevent erosion as the roots are managed. It sounds ridiculous. Jimmy nailed it. Cutting olive trees down is banned in turkey.

This is getting so much attention! I feel a change coming. Turkey govt is not happy about this pressure

We are living in an age where saying that you shouldn’t plant trees on an archaeological site is considered a conspiracy. Insanity has taken hold

We should host an archaeologist mental gymnastics olympics.

Seriously Dan, this shit has pissed me right off! 😓 GT, disgustingly, has been turned into a theme park by some privileged twits!

All that land out there and not a single other place that has olive trees.

These are not humans who make these decisions. They are our overlords, make no mistake.

I used to live in an orchard and presently live in the Shasta-Trinity forest. Tree roots, like all other plants, only branch out to the side and not down if they have a regular source of water. The more a plant, including trees, gets only enough water to slowly, barely grow, their roots stretch deep more than they branch out near the surface.Alo, the taller a tree is, the deeper its roots stretch; if the tree is tall enough, the roots go equally deep as they are wide to ensure the massive heavy tree remains upright. The area that Gobeki Tepe is in often gets hotter than 115 Fahrenheit during summer (an average is 113 Fahrenheit), and then because of its elevation it gets to freezing temps - a dry freeze - in winter. There is very little water in that specific region, the type of plants around there are more desert-like plants that don't need much water to grow. Olive trees need a decent amount of regular water to grow. Each olive tree needs about 6 gallons every couple weeks. I presently live in an area that has the exact same climate as where Gobekli Tepe is, and it does NOT rain from often late January - late-September. An olive tree canNOT survive on no water all summer in 113+ heat. IF they grow, their roots are going to reach very deep to survive. Since a successful orchard has grown, that means the Turkish authorities have pumped significant water into the soil, and with soil that dry, water sinks right down. They are literally flooding the ruins of Gobekli Tepe to keep that orchard alive, for the amount of water needed for trees to grow - IF they planted olive seeds and not bareroot saplings - would have been astronomical. If they planted saplings --- then they essentially excavated Gobekli Tepe JUST to plant trees, and then re-buried it. It was intentional. Those trees WILL destroy the ruins, if the flooding needed to keep those trees alive doesn't first. Not to mention trees that are illegal to be cut down in that country, or that excavation won't be allowed until those responsible + great-grandchildren (possibly great-great) are long-dead and thus absolved from legal punishment. It was 100% INTENTIONAL.

Amazing how trees all of a sudden become non-destructive and welcomed upon civil construction when it comes to archaeology! Maybe we should let the vegetation overtake our cities as a form of preservation! 🤣

Dan, something disturbs a lot of people about this particular site. I don't know what is, but it strikes at the core nature and philosophy of some people. The reluctance to continue excavation on a grand scale is troublesome. Of course it could be a reflection of the violence in the area. But your video points to the unanswerable questions. Another good job. Sincerely

Tree roots are good for erosion when its very sandy ground, not regular dirt, sandy shorelines trees take hold better than grass. But this site isn't a wet shoreline... Here erosion is gonna be from sudden rainfalls and flash floods, so grass is better.

While it’s certainly good to know the actual reasons for planting the olive trees and archeologists’ typical knee-jerk reaction to Jimmy Corsetti on the issue, I think the far more important point that Jimmy brings up is the fact that the vast majority of the site is going to be left unexplored for the foreseeable future. “Waiting for future technological improvements”, is as both Dan and Jimmy point out, simply risible. @DeDunking are you planning a future episode on this?

you standing on the fence, is the reason I love watching your videos... thank you for this not taking either side.the truth is a three sided sword, there's your's, and the truth!!!

I haven't seen another video talk about this since Jimmy from Bright Insight, so I'm glad to see you address this topic with a more scientific approach.

Dropping by the comments to let you know, I very much appreciate your videos. It's hard to find well spoken and researched content around these topics. You are a credit to the human race. Keep up the fantastic work.

The ancient sites of Britain were overplanted with trees to destroy them ultimately but also to remove sight lines. The trees should be replanted away from ancient sites.

8:25 NO: the land is NOT 100% ancient ruins. More than 50% of the land is just regular farmland without ruins under it. If they wanted to increase the value of the land, they would have planted it there FIRST, not exactly on top of the valuable disccvery.

Im not sure that trees growing roots mostly horizontaly is an absolute rule, it depends a lot of the plant species, and the requirement of their environement. For example trees that are adapted to live in places with water scarcity will tend to grow root deeper to be able to reach water, for example in an aride place like… Turkey? xd In this case some of the trees they planted are olives, which in fact are plantes adapted to these places because they can grow roots up to 7m deep, much much more than the 2m average. So yeah I dont want to sound conspiracist but they planted exactly the type of trees that have strong aggressive roots that can go very deep breaking rock to reach underground water. Which is exactly the plants you want to avoid to preserve the site. If there are idk some precious T pillars with 3D carvings in the way the roots will attack them getting into fissures and then growing will expand until they shatter them completely to make their way below. The thing is that if you try to look that up, most sources will tell you that olive tree roots are shallow and not very invasive, BUT (and most of them omit to elaborate further on this crucial point) this is assuming benine optimal conditions for the plant, the roots CAN become invasive if the environement becomes more stressful (what I said at the start). If the water becomes more difficult to reach some say they can go even more than 30 feet deep which is almost 10 meters. Now what could be a situation that creates a more difficult time for the plant to reach the underground water table? Idk, being in an arid place like Turkey and… on top of a hill that will elevate the plant from the water level? Not like Gobekli tepe was exactly in that type of spot right? There are literally all the circumstances you would want to avoid suspiciously reunited, but thats just me.

Nice! I love the prehistory guys. They are by far the most unbiased, and seem to give most theories a fair shake. I guess I wouldn’t say they accept the “woo”, but they’re willing to dip their toes in. Which is commendable, with how divisive this field has become.

This argument that "the olive trees are a connection for the local population to the site" makes very little sense considering it was buried for thousands of years and nobody knew it was there. And to assume that the families of these farmers have been living there for the last 10 thousand years is insane. A lot has come and gone in that time. But if you tell Dibble anything regarding locals venerating their land, he just nods like a bobble head doll.

Just by looking up olive tree roots you will find they are flat rooting. Just only when the root search for water they root 7m deep. Always amazing how nature finds a way. I guess arguments will be flung around of olive trees being flat rooting just to divert from the little issue that comes with arid habitats like turkey in general and a hill top specifically is. ...

The trees were absolutely not planted by a poor farmer they were planted years after the site came under government management as can be clearly seen by the pre infrastructure pictures of the site. The trees were put there at the same time as the walkways and protective tent over the main excavation site. This can be easily proven by looking at satellite imagery from the alleged timeframe as well as published photographs that appear in multiple sources. It was the w.e.f that put the trees in place because its illegal to remove olive trees thusly preventing any further digs in the area without having to commit a criminal act according to the government of Turkey under the olive tree act. this is super easy to prove thanks to google.... Never thought I would give Googles surveillance network props for anything but I guess having access to the eye of sauron has its uses.

HEY! There is a lot of land there. It would have been VERY EASY to plant LOTS of trees NEAR BUT NOT ON top of the sacred areas and STILL have the same positive land value effect, perhaps even more-so. JIMMY is 100% right on this and you are wrong. The minute to take the map out on the table and talk about it, this is obvious.

What preservation? No site worth a dime, if it's under. And I don't buy for a second the value increase theory, just to stand in the middle here. I can't imagine the difference of the trouble and cost of those plantations, and what more they could ask for the property is significant enough to worth it.

Brilliant analysis because you bring the facts. Thanks for being a sane mind in the middle of all the BS.

Lets remember the conpiracy theorist term of today was specificly and ONLY created to hinder those getting close to the target(truth)....

I work in drain cleaning and plumbing and just the past two weeks Ive seen two pipes at least 4.5ft to 6ft down with roothair balls 3 feet long growing inside of pipes 4inches around with single large roots as big as 3-5 inches around puncturing inside the pipe. Roots can do serious damage in search of water. One of these instances, the nearest tree was about 30-40ft away. Do not underestimate the power of thirsty roots. Just my two cents from someone with experience in this particular situation.

Ask your home insurance agent or any builder about planting trees against your house foundation. 😮

have you seen Lukes video, his new one . The damage the trees have done to the structures in the jungle .

I don't think Gobekli Tepe necessarily "throws our models upside down". I just see it as simply an advanced area in comparison to the rest of the world. Anatolia was a major player in the Neolithic & Copper Age and was always in the center of the "civilized" world. It does not surprise me that a site like this would exist in Anatolia. It would be like seeing the 23rd century, and the entire world, even the "poorest" nations with capabilites of space travel and highly advanced technology but then saying "but they had that technology in America & Russia in the 20th century, so we need to re-think everyting we thought now and assume the whole world was advanced in the 20th century." Of course there is always going to be exceptions to the norm and some places are more advanced in areas than others.

Too bad it's impossible to listen to the premiere while in the chat. There are a number of things I didn't know until my rewatch, but the most important is that these were planted DECADES AGO?! Sigh. And by the way, I've watched everything Jimmy has put out for all these years, geez I practically found him first--it was his reaction to this topic that turned me off, not some kneejerk contrarianism because of not liking him. The other way around. Archaeology becomes less and less destructive all the time. If it WERE for preservation, I would applaud it. Turns out it was thirty years ago, and this kind of thing is exactly why I call Jimmy a clickwh*re.

Great points here. Always glad to see people rightfully stick up for Jimmy. The only thing I wanted to add is that it may have been the previous owners that planted the trees to increase the value before selling it, but - Was it a completely independent idea of owner or did someone else suggest it to them? If it was possibly the latter, then who was it? Do they maybe have skin in the game of keeping the narrative? Would take actual investigation to figure all that out, but just something that I've been kicking around in my head.

Thank you greatly for you contribution to this ongoing conversation. We need more coverage like yours.

Man, fantastic discussion. Impressed.

Great presentation Dan, an' yes (to use one of Larry David's concepts), this seems more and more to be turning into a 'Spite Orchard!...' 🤣 🤓 🌳🌳🌳🌳 😩😩😩😩

Hey Dan. I'm watching this in my van, within view of Stonehenge. Which is 3.5 miles away [Edit] from Boscombe Down and is now an MoD base. Tomorrow I will check the O/S map and try to find the location from the Forestry Commission. Enjoying your channel Dan. You are like lady justice with a beard in the sane mid ground ish.

They are waiting for future technological innovations to then proceed.. then they say it could take over 150 years. This is insane and if you could look into this for us @DeDunking! Thanks 🙏🏻

I think you and Jimmy Corsetti should sit down and talk. I think you both could get a lot from each other.

Speaking of Olive Trees: Hey Siri, what happened to 800,000 Olive Trees in the West Bank?

The line about monitoring tree roots to make sure they aren't damaging anything was so stupid. It's literally underground. You can't monitor that. This isn't like Star Trek or something where we can just scan it and see what's up. You have no idea what's down there and where the roots are going to.

Tree root depth can vary per the tree, it's not a one size fits all. Some trees, I've hit roots 4' deep and had to cut them out. Others have roots that stick out of the ground and are so insanely shallow, they fall over if the soil gets too saturated with rain in a short period of time (usually comes with hurricanes or constant summer storms here in Florida).

I'm going to start freezing public roads with water and dry ice repetitively, and planting things in public roads for "erosion control" 😅😅😅😅😅😅 so ridiculous for "academics" to say tree roots control erosion in the long run

How could you possibly have any credibility left as an archeologist if you're willing to lie just so you won't be in an agreement with someone that has a different point of view than you.

im just happy the Olive Tree Huggin Hippies finally get the mention they deserve, thank you dan..

Just an FYI for everyone: When archaeologists are talking about a "feature", in this case it is the structure or "ruins". So, saying that they aren't removing trees that are "like damaging the ruins" isn't really accurate. Either the trees that are close to damaging the feature are being removed or the roots aren't damaging the feature to begin with. Will have to watch Flint's video with Lee Clare for more clarification.

There are long standing cultural reasons in Turkey for protecting olive trees. I would leave it to the Turks.

Didn't Jimmy also point out that the current curators for Gobekli Tepe also concreted over large sections of the site, and have zero plans for excavating it in the future? We're talking about one of the newest archaeological finds which pushes the dates back on human history, and they're not just sitting on it doing nothing, they're actively trying to prevent future digs. This is exactly what previous archaeologists did to artifacts that were found which fell outside the accepted timelines. They "debunked" them (without seeing them or visiting the sites where they were found), they ignored them, they "lost" them, and they publicly stated that they wanted to figuratively cover them up, in the hopes that people would eventually forget about them (which is what happened, as most now don't even know about them). This isn't new behavior. They've done it for at least the last 200-300 years. For reference on all of these forgotten artifacts, check out the book "The Hidden History of the Human Race", which lists dozens if not hundreds, as well as how the archaeologists reacted to them.

Man, those people... Sometimes, I wish they just stop, collaborate and listen.

But why are they so worried about Jimmy?

The site was discovered because ruins were found ON the surface and jutting out of the ground. The Smithsonian article on the site says "Schmidt returned a year later with five colleagues and they uncovered the first megaliths, a few buried so close to the surface they were scarred by plows." And I'm supposed to believe that root structures that can travel up to a couple of meters below ground wouldnt damage anything? This is absurd.

The first house I lived in was taken by a freeway. Our neighbor worked for the highway department and knew very early it was coming. He did a butt load of improvements to the house and property. The freeway took about 10 ft of his yard. He's got a real nice house and yard right up against the freeway fence.

This is a good debunk. I sort of get the feeling you pissed everyone off 😂 also a shame no one bothered looking into the clear human motive of GREED before dieing on their hills.

Damn gave em the treatment on that one. That ending... ooooh boy haha

To be fair, I doubt the farmer was even aware of the potential damage to the site. He needed to up the land value quick, and olive trees establish fairly quickly.

To me it is weird that they don’t plan to excavate this extremely interesting sight for the history of the human race! This makes no sense.

Nice PS2 poster. Lol. Best console of all time.

I interpreted the intentional burying of the sites as protecting them from destruction. The long list of archeological wonders that have been bombed or defaced is a long one. Maybe these sites are better preserved for more deserving civilizations.

Wait. I thought the trees were recent and planted by the new owners NOT private citizens. If that’s not the case the VERY first thing they would’ve said in their defense would’ve been WE DIDNT DO IT THE PRIVATE LAND OWNERS DID . And that’s not been said

Great video Dan! Your last sentence was my favorite part lol. Its no wonder these people arent trusted when all they do is blindly parrot the mainstream talking points without ever actually giving it a second thought. They can NEVER take a stance in agreement with somebody or something that opposes them. At a certain point it makes ya wonder, are they really this programmed, are all these supposed experts and professionals THAT invested in always owning the chuds, can they really never have their own thought and say something that shouldnt even be considered contrarian, OR whether they even know it or not, is there some reason they all seem to follow the same narratives and scripts to the point you can practically predict it? (Not just this subject either, but anybody in the establishment in general) Science should constantly be challenging and questioning itself, but the older I get the more I realize, that is just not the system we have set up, its almost the opposite of that in many ways. Not just scientists/academics but many people in general nowadays are literally unable to question most things or even hold conflicting ideas in their head. Its very odd to me the more blatant and noticeable its become. I also think social media has warped our minds so much that almost everybody has become an activist of SOMETHING, many become almost radicalized over their SOMETHING, clouding their judgement and intellect, and those that have some kind of clout or power in their SOMETHING dont want to ever give it up, will always defend it, think it matters more than it does, and will do whatever it takes to fight for it, even if that means cutting off its nose to spite its face. Some of the hills people are willing to die on these days is absolutely ridiculous and shouldnt be any kind of battle to in the first place, but oh wait, did you just say you're against SOMETHING.....RAWRRR!

i'm no expert, but it seems to me that those trees aren't as old as they say. 30 years they should be bigger. Another thing, they waited 10 years to buy the land? they discovered Gobekli Tepe in 1994, started to escavate, and only 10years after were the Olive Trees planted, isn't that weird?

Strikes me Hunker are pretty much confirming the horizontal issues, rather than discussing depth issues, since they're on about them spreading out beyond the width of the canopy not going downwards to destroy stuff below. Do like your point about fertiliser and snails. 👍

From my readings it was illegal to remove or kill olive trees in Turkey until 2022 and that the law allowing it relates only to mining and other areas of deemed significance. It may have been misreading on my behalf, but playing devils advocate I would be curious to know how much of the hesitancy to remove these groves is also partially related to that series of laws and inherited cultural beliefs. Also be very curious to hear your take on that Dan with a bit more thoroughly research and explored related ideas. I deeply want to see Gobekli Tepe fully excavated, but I do legitimately want to know if it is more than a westerners perspective informing the olive removal without them actively excavating those areas yet (and with their 'close monitoring'). So even with our desire to remove them now, there may be legal or political ramifications no one wants to deal with currently

Been working in drainage and ditching for 20 years in South Western Ontario. We use certain grasses from the prairie lands for erosion and also farm nitro run off.

I saw Jimmy's video and I was hoping you would do a reaction vid. I think you are the most balanced voice in this space and I am disappointed in the archeological community to discover that Jimmy's findings are mostly correct. Keep up the good work. Your content will stand the test of time.

No worries, I'm sure they'll come around on this and eventually replace the trees with something better like kudzu. It's great at preventing erosion! Replenishes the soil too.

That excerpt from the Dibble podcast seems to be the smoking gun. It makes it pretty clear that these olive trees had nothing to do with preservation. Your hypothesis that there might be political or legal reasons they can't remove the olive trees seems completely plausible. I think at this point the ball is in the team at Gobekli Tepe's court. The potential issues with the olive trees you raised are worthy of being addressed. To address the points you've made, they should: 1) Release a document detailing how they monitor the roots. They have stated they are "monitoring" the roots to ensure no damage occurs. What does that mean in practice? I assume they have an arborist on staff or an arborist they consult with that should be able to document this. To restore trust, we need to actually know what this process looks like. 2) Release a document explaining why olive trees were selected to stop erosion. IF the olive trees were selected by archaeologists to preserve the site, then what made this plant species the ideal candidate? Why not other trees? Why not grasses? If this were truly aimed at stopping erosion and protecting the site, experts in land management would have surely been consulted. The lead archaeologist of the site should have more than enough reference material to explain in a document why olive trees are the best choice. What we have right now are appeals to authority and requests that we trust them. The public needs specifics.

As someone below commented & have't looked into it , that Gobekli Tepe was old Armenian area , may perhaps throw a religious & well entire tool box of spanners into the works of the why's & wherefores of why excavations are being stymied

Ok that's the trees. Now what about the politicians saying they want to re-bury the entire site.

I wish that 'scientology' had never been adopted as a term because NOW would be the perfect time to invent it, to demarkate the difference between actual 'scientists' and the 'scientologist' that views science as religion and PhD's as priests.

At this point, a video without Flint Dibble popping up at some point would feel a bit sad and disappointing. Thank you for sharing those infos, by the way.

Bright insight,if Jimmy with the name you mentioned is the guy I'm talking about,he to mentioned the same things about the trees as to why they were planted there,and showed a picture of before and after image wen the trees were there,he Also went on to talk about how the WEF world economic forum has there hands on that site to,and a historian who claims to know everything,by the name Karule he threatened years ago to beat a archeologist up in court and got sentence to prison for it,

Factttssss this is amazing the guys in turkey are 7:04 quit ignorant if I do say so for letting this happen and act like they know what there doing when really it’s a diversion 👀cause we all stupid people

What any expert will tell you is, once trees are there, removing the trees could itself cause problems, the ground is in a stable state, if you remove trees then the moisture in the soil will change the roots will decompose, and all of this will cause subsidence. So the question isnt whether he trees are doing harm, but would removing the trees cause more harm than leaving them in place.

Have a hard time accepting the land owner in a country like Turkey was allowed to plant trees on such a site to increase his land value. NO, it was done on purpose and those trees will be there for a long time.

This reminds me of supposed archeological sites in China that they planted crops ontop of and don't excavate.

Well said points this is why I watch

It’s sad to see “Big Archeology” dig its heels in and pick Minuteman Archeologist at such a young age poison his mind

Olive trees are usually shallow 1 meter how ever they can go up to 7 meter deep in loose soil and that solid looked loose with rocks, and it's dry so the roots will go deep to survive and find water as you have stated. I think it is a bad idea to leave them there.

I have seen only one scientist weigh in publicly on the prehistory debate, Dr. Robert Schoch.

Archeological site to tourist trap. To heck with history....there is money to be made!

Some hot archeologists should convince some rich old bazillionaires to fund some digs.

This stuff has probably being happening for millennia, it is the internet and social media that is making these shenanigans known.

Classic.

How many meters down did they have to dig to uncover the Gobekli Tepe site?

Everyone is bad with names, don't let it bother you, chuck.

Do I need to remind everybody that so-called conspiracy theories are mostly proven to be true then false.

Flint Dibble is an embarrassment to the Archaeological occupation

Its against the law to dig up olive trees in Turkey...just saying.

Different trees have different root structures, some wider and shallow some deeper.

Preserved for 10 000+ years... "Let's protect it with trees" 🗿

to hide the changes they make and findings they don't want to be public.

What sucks most about conspiracy theories is once in a while they're at least half right

Wasn't this only discovered in the 90s? Interesting... is that mud? ;)

oh, even if they excuse the trees, which are illegal to cut, i believe, what about the roads on top of the site?

All the earlier site pics look barren; its looking jungley now