Goku Vs Piccolo: Start Of Dragon Ball Z: Who Would Win? 

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Pretty sure Mike’s channel got a zenkai boost. It was not long ago, this channel was retired, only for Mike to return, stronger than ever, giving us even better content than before. Keep up the good work my dude 😎

I think he said Goku couldn't be wished back because if you get killed by a demon the soul never reaches otherworld?

Piccolo wins with medium diff😅

6:29 vegeta's technique never gets old 😂

Goku having a roughly 2% edge over Piccolo may not seem like much, but i'd wager that since Goku has a history of doing *better* in the rematch against tough opponents, taking down Piccolo despite being relatively even is something he could realistically do

This is still one of the best fights in the entire series. Also, it didn't have filler in the anime, which makes it even better.

A part of me has always kind of wondered what if Raditz never showed up and all the alien elements of the universe were never introduced, how would the rest of the Dragon Ball story play out? Like if Goku and Piccolo were allowed to settle their score uninterrupted and the tone of the series remained in it's early martial arts roots?

Yes light of Death sounds Cooler then special beam cannon but saying it out loud isn't

8 points may be more of a big deal than you give it credit for. At the time those levels were introduced, Toriyama also ascribed past levels to prior fights. All of them reflected the outcomes of the fights, including Tien and Goku's levels being exactly the same during the 22nd BT at 180. Correct measurement was obviously very important to Toriyama at the time, until he tired of the idea. Having Goku being only marginally stronger than Piccolo would be an accurate representation of their potential outcome at the time. Goku likely would have won in the same way they did in the 23rd, where the difference in power was only 5. Hard fought but with Goku having the upper hand aside from moments of laxness from Goku that allow Piccolo to exploit them. Power levels of course are portrayed as being inaccurate later. First, because scouters aren't accurate enough when enemies can conceal their potential. (The power levels if accurately measured in this case are still perfect.) Then second and much later, it's implied a weaker character can win a 1v1. Although we don't really see this in practice, besides when multiple characters team up on one enemy by combining their power levels...

I doubt Goku's going to just sit there and let Piccolo charge a special beam Cannon so the fight would probably have a similar result of their last one.

Oh. I thought this was going to be a video about how Goku vs Piccolo was basically the unofficial start of "Dragon Ball Z" in a sense of, like, what the show would eventually become (action-wise, particularly). Lol

My head canon is that Piccolo design the specials beam cannon to pierce through a clash with a kamehameha. Yep, you ended up saying the same thing. I agree then. Goku probably would have found a last ditch way to counter it, though. That plus plot armor.

Piccolo and Kami went from demons and gods to alien slugs and guardians

Mike, amazingly well-constructed presentation as usual. I didn't even consider Piccolo could reduce the charge time on the Makkankosappo because Goku wasn't at Raditz's level of strength. Bravo good sir!

How strong would the fusion between Tao Pai Pai and Master Roshi from the original DB be? Would this merger be able to beat a reborn King piccolo or Piccolo junior?

My theory is that most characters fight in a right handed fighting stance, with their left arm forward, and that’s why left arms get damaged so often.

Piccolo would beat goku then Gohan would beat piccolo if Goku was Killed by piccolo

Mike! Your passion, hustle, and charisma are catapulting your already-existing presence in the dbz community. Thanks a lot for your content and I'm sure there's even more, in the future 😎

I always thought Raditz was 1,200 but when charges up his attack it would be 1,500

I'm sure Goku would be wished back for round two

Another great video. I especially like the comparisons with anime and explaining the dub issues :)

In truth, Goku is slightly stronger than Piccolo at the start of dragonball z, but Piccolo has a stronger technique. While the special beam cannon had the power to kill Goku, and actually did even though Goku let it happen, it still isn't enough to give Piccolo the edge over Goku. After all, the special beam cannon had a slow charge time and if it is initially dodged, the technique becomes less effective. If Goku and Piccolo fought at the start of Z, Piccolo would have a chance to win, but Goku would likely win.

🎶 doot doo doot doo do, mahna mahna, doot do doot doo, manhna mahna, doot do doot doo do doot doo do, I’m charging my attack 🎶

Wow dude...This videos timing is very scary. I just read all of OG Dragonball for the first time(finished about an hour ago) after reading and watching Z and Super for the last 20 years.

The real question now is why Piccolo didn't use the mafuba against Raditz ?

Mike’s channel is the whole package creative, knowledgeable, entertaining and has the perfect radio voice Thank you for feeding my dragon ball addiction

I will say this is one of your toughest topics because even though Piccolo calls Goku a slacker after tossing rocks across the ocean both Krillin and Master Roshi have to admit Goku didn't seem to get any weaker after being married abd having a kued for 5 years. As far as the battle with Raditiz goes even though we do see the numbers given one of the things that is missed is I don't think Goku used a Super Kamehameha against Raditiz. So even with a regular kamehameha Goku was able to keep up with Piccolo in terms of power and Raditiz had to admit that by focusing there power on a single spot the earthlings could raise their power levels through the roof where most members of the Freiza Force couldn't do that. Now unless the Special Beam Cannon has an ability to punch through the Kamehameha which it might, I don't see the fight with Goku and Piccolo going any different. Because remember Goku seemed to react quicker and dodge Raditiz's Double Sunday, but also withstood tge Saturday Crush all be it not well. So overall in terms of full power I don't see that much of a difference between Piccolo and Goku so I really don't see a difference outcome from their previous battle, but man is it a close one.

So i guess it was a good thing Raditz had his Scouter, because unlike Nappa and Vegeta he might have died sooner because he was probably would have tried to thank thr special beam cannon

Mike i think there is a slight contradiction on your logic , on one hand you argue that Goku and Piccolo are essentially the same due to their power level being 8 in difference while also arguing that power levels maybe didnt mean much, now dont get me wrong i do agree that scouter readings were a bit misleading given the habit of the Z warriors of hiding their true power and only going full out when needed, also i think you overlooked a small thing about the double sunday attack, Goku was able to dodge it while Piccolo wasnt, i think the difference between them was bigger than you account for, earlier Master Roshi comments how Goku is still quite strong when they are skipping rocks in water with Krillin

Goku wins. That Special Beam Cannon was taking too long.

Its not that piccolo has better stamina. It's that his flight technique is better(at that time). Goku used a strong enough attack with less charge time. Goku was also said to have gotten stronger despite being a father. Piccolo said he was lazy in terms of creating a technique. The whole point of sparing piccolo was to give Goku something so he'd stay training. Also whether piccolo's technique takes more time due to raditz or not isn't clear. In the manga he just said the technique takes a lot of time to be done. We saw some techniques take time just to be done, like how the anime portrayed the kienzan ect.

Future Gohan vs Kami Fusion Picollo? Both fought android 17 and fared well in a one on one. The android 17s are different in strength but a cool idea.

5 minutes isn't even thay long Frieza and Goku fought for 5 minutes look how long it was

Goku would have won because the creator of Dragon Ball would have made where he wins

goku had a higher power level, and piccolo needed time to charge the special beam canon, goku wins

Incredible video as always man! Your analyzis and cover of these topics are through the roof! This series is awesome!🎉🎉🎉🎉😊😊😊😊😊

Kinda makes me wish we had more stories between DB and DBZ! Piccolo and Goku, best frivals at equal, competing powers? Sign me up!

Yeah, Piccolo totally takes this. His static power may have been like 8 lower, but that's basically errelivanet. Piccolo had regeneration, a stronger special attack (one that pierces no less), a collection of more unique other moves, was in more ready fighting shape, and most importantly would be going into this to win at all costs unlike Goku who would be looking at it like sport as well as needing to hold back to avoid killing Kami. There's also plot armour and stuff, but at the point of early dbz I'd put my Zeni on Goku losing this what if battle.

Oof, rough question as always. I feel Piccolo may have surprised him. Buuuut, they are very even.

Love your videos man! Always make my day! And Goku would have won!🧡🧡🧡🧡🧡

I also want to note as Piccolo develops he becomes more of a skilled and technical fighter. In the original fight it appears to me that Goku is just the more experienced battler as Piccolo keeps falling into rookie mistakes.

Loving these versus battles, keep em coming! :D

If i remember correctly. Goku stopped training after dragon ball. Though he should’ve gotten a power boost from the Zenkai, he still stopped training. And if him not training is like Gohan’s he lost a lot.

if piccolo swallowed his pride and fused with kami at this point in time he easily bodies goku.

Very poetic, Piccolo worked so hard to be more powerful than Goku, only for it all to be ashes in his mouth as something more monstrous was coming.

Son Goku was still stronger then Piccolo Jr but Goku has nothing or couldn't do anything to stop or counter The Special Beam Cannon

I feel like Picolo would outsmart Goku. When Goku starts taking a lead, he'd get an idea. He'd say, "I have a move that you could never beat." Goku would immediately be curious, "Oh yeah? Seems like I'm winning at the moment if you haven't noticed." "Just give me five minutes to gather the energy." "Five whole minutes of no fighting!?" "Make it two." "You got it. Just yell out the name so i know it's coming." "You insult me. Of course I'd yell out the name first!" "Okay okay. Two minutes." So Goku stands there staring at picolo holding his two fingers to his bald head, both having taken off their weighted clothing. Two minutes later... "MAKANKOSAPPO!" Goku stares realizing he'll never be able to dodge it. "Kamehameha!" But Picolo's Makankosappo drills right through Goku's Kamehameha. Now i think this early of a picolo may still have had the intent to kill, but I'm not so sure he'd have gone through with it. I think he shoots him in a barely non-vital area. Making a long healing time, even for a Saiyan without a senzu, but letting them train until the next Tenkaichi Budokai. Like they were destined to at least have a friendly rivalry. Let alone Picolo raising Gohon.

If the charge time could be brought down, then so would speed and power. Meaning if Raditz could dodge, so could Goku. Especially since it would be a 1v1, not 2v1 where Goku is distracted by another fighter. A 2% power level is good. You got to remember. Goku barely got stronger number # wise from being flicked by Kami, to being stronger than him. Goku also has a 2.2x in his Kamehameha, which didn't need a noticeable charge. Most of the time it's not a charge, just dramatics. Goku realistically got a Zenkai after the 1st fight. Which means he didn't need to train as much, since he was already pushed further by it, so Piccolo needed to keep up. This is also not gonna be a tournament fight like it originally was. So Goku is less restrained.

This would be extremely close. There are pros and cons to both characters. Goku is slightly stronger than Piccolo but Piccolo has the ability to regenerate as well as the special beam cannon which he developed specifically to kill Goku. However he just developed this technique and it isn't viable in battle yet. The charge time is ridiculous and he'd be a sitting duck if he tried to unleash it. Regeneration is definitely advantageous for Piccolo but it isn't without drawback. It consumes a large amount of energy which would leave Piccolo weaker with each regeneration. So while he doesn't he have as many techniques as Piccolo, the ones Goku does have are more refined and would play a factor. One last factor is Piccolo would be fighting to kill, while Goku is fighting to win. So yeah.....it would be very close but I'd say Goku would have the edge. If the special beam cannon was mastered and didn't require a 5 minute charge time, then I'd say Piccolo would win.

U can’t give Goku massively faster than light status in this arc just because he avoided the eye beam. We (and presumably Goku) very clearly saw the eye beams charging up in the previous panel. He probably just avoided where the attack was obviously headed.

I have not watched the video yet, and will comment my opinion after hearing what Laughingstock has to say. My theory currently is that Goku would win, seeing as his powerlevel was slightly higher to begin with, and although Piccolo had the Makankosappo that killed Raditz, Goku's Kamehameha registered on Raditz scouter around 1k. On top of that, Goku can charge his blast faster and 1k is easily enough to kill or severely wound Piccolo if given the chance. Afterward EDIT: It was a good point brought up that Piccolo would not have to fully charge the Makankosappo to deal lethal damage to Goku, being a weaker opponent. This fact may equalize the charge time difference, making it more likely of a Piccolo victory when considering the stamina point. I do believe now Piccolo *could* more likely win, but feel that the story of dragon ball would have Goku squeeze out a victory just barely. Who knows, maybe without the restrictions of the Tournament in place this time around, Goku has an advantage we're not seeing.

18:37 Few minutes is still an ambiguous amount of time. That ain't enough to discredit Kai dub.

Goku and Piccolo at the beginning of Dragon Ball Z is near-comparable to the end of Dragonball, save for a little power growth from both, and one additional attack power from Piccolo. Unfortunately, we know from Raditz that Piccolo was literally not as strong as Goku, and that his beam cannon took FIVE MINUTES to charge. Not tremendously useful in that situation.

Btw the reason why Piccolo said "Not even the dragon god can save him now" is because back then , Shenron had the restriction that it could only revive someone with 1 year of their death, and they'd have to wish his body back first which would mean that it would not be possible to bring him back within 1 year

Without watching this video yet, I'm gonna say piccolo. My logic is because they were both close in power scaling but piccolo made the special beam cannon just for Goku and Goku had no prior knowledge of the move. He would have been struggled against piccolo but lose because the special beam cannon would drill right through the kamahama wave

Piccolo was already notably weaker than goku and his trump card requires a LOTTA preptime. I'd say goku wins High-dif like at the end of Dragon Ball

Piccolo would win. Goku would fire a kamahama thinking it's a normal beam struggle. But piccolo's special beam would cut through the wide energy of Goku's blast to untimely hit him. They finally demonstrated this in the ToP.

I say Goku, this dude thought his slow ass trump card would kill anyone paying attention. You have to be SPECIAL to actually be hit by the Special Beam Cannon in a 1v1. It's even worse if you miss, telegraphed as hell.

I just realized Goku could've just grabbed Raditz' tail again after he knocked out Gohan lol

Goku's stronger, but not by a worthwhile margin. Piccolo's got a few more options, but he tried and failed at most of them against Goku one way or another. Mafuba and SBS are his surest wins, but both require set-up that Goku simply won't allow. One key factor is Goku's tendancy to lower his guard. This is present as late as Super - it's how Frieza almost killed him then, it's how Piccolo almost killed him in their original fight, it's how Radditz almost kills him at this very point we're discussing. It's highly consistent to his character, and left him requiring a bail-out in each of the aforementioned scenarios. That could easily lose him the fight, especially since this Piccolo isn't chivalrous enough not to exploit it. But then again, *this* Piccolo's sadism could just as easily cost him. It's honestly one of the most even matchups in the series, and I would say both win in 5/10 scenarios...

I am working on playtesting the DBS,Z & GT characters. I am using an expanded form of Mutants & Masterminds combined with the Omniverse Sourcebooks. Omniverse only goes to 60 for megaverse and a pure X level for anything above that. Mine goes to 200 being the max for pure omniversal X level. It gives a more "realistic" range of the power differences. I loved the idea of power levels but they were very flawed and became more so as everyone tried to estimate future levels. Even though Goku is my favorite I doubt that he will exceed Galactic level even with SS Blue regardless of hyperbolic in universe character statements I use manga only btw. Too much silly filler in the anime. . I could be wrong because I have only just started working them out with the help of Hero Lab but I will let you know.

Yeah I think Goku takes the dub. It’s only close if the plot somehow allows the SBC to hit Goku. Even if Piccolo used a quicker, weaker version, it could probably then be countered by the Kamehame Ha. So close but no cigar for Piccolo and they could still end up friends afterwards. Peace.

Picoolo doenst use the bukujutsu , Piccolo Daimao already knew how to fly , they use different tehniques

the biggest change Piccolo had was mature. He in that point now respect Goku and fights for real. in the Rematch he would not make the mistakes he had commited because of arrogance. As the next fights he had againts Freeeza, Cell and 17, we know that he would bait goku to try to do a blast fight, but makenkosappo is a piercing blast techninque just like Krulin Kienzan is a "ki body barrier" techninque proven to pierce many times stronger enemys than himself. so... Goku would fall. But i must say, Piccolo is not a character knew by his mistakes and to do a bad jugment of his enemys, if he didnt challenge goku at this point its because that he is not ready for do it yet.

Goku's got the higher power level and the Kamehameha Wave takes way less time to charge than the Special Beam Cannon. There's no way Piccolo wins.

I don’t think that piccolo necessarily had more stamina then Goku. The distance that they flew was probably WAY less then goku on snake way, and goku used Kinto to conserve energy before a big battle while piccolo simply didn’t have that option. (Maybe that’s why piccolo was at 408 to Goku’s 416). Could also be that Goku isn’t really great with flying. He only learned how to fly a few years before, and when he fought freeze he chose to start the fight on the ground, because he has an advantage fighting on the ground, (although that might have been because freezes is better while in the air and Goku is fine either way, not entirely sure).

This is a topic that apparently intimidated the writers of The Dead Zone. They totally gloss over Goku and Piccolo's fight while they thought Garlic Jr. was dead. They just kept throwing generic punches and kicks for a few seconds 🤣

I'd say Goku would win hes slightly stronger than piccolo, and his techniques are far more effective. Piccolo needs a good amount of time to chare the Makankosapo, and his regeneration is draining on his fighting strength and the Kamehameha vs far stronger a technique than Piccolo's Demon wave, and Piccolo's size expansion is worthless. I give the win to Goku, Piccolo might give him a challenge but in the end Goku definitely wins.

This was a fun watch, I honestly don't know who would win as it's pretty even to me. However I think there is a slight error in your analysis. Piccolo got to charge with no interruption, Goku was mid fight with Radditz and firing at the spot while Piccolo is still charging. Goku in way way less time than Piccolo got a Kamehameha that almost reached 1,000 on the power scale. Goku just got done skirmishing to buy time before even attempting that blast while Piccolo charged the entire time. And we all know that the Kamehameha can be charged even further to build more power. Assuming that Goku had a similar amount of time it's very possible he could have gotten enough power to go toe to toe with Piccolo's Light of Death. Of course this is just an assumption. Just like Piccolo's attack possibly being able to pierce through the Kamehameha is an assumption. I don't think it's as simple as Piccolo fires a weaker version of the attack and Goku is insta done with no real way to deal with it. That's just my thoughts after watching it. I was just like wait he really just brushed aside Goku's Kamehameha reaching that attack potency with barely any time, compared to Piccolo who has just been sitting there charging...

Lots of people say that the advantage goes to Piccolo, however, keep in mind Goku *never* has had the advantage on beams. The Kamehameha is versatile, however it is one of the worst beams in terms of damage in the entire show. Ever since Tao Pai Pai with the Dodonpa, Goku has fought characters he can't beam struggle. Goku vs Vegeta, Vegeta's Gallic Gun is vastly superior a beam to Goku's kamehameha. Even vs Freeza, Goku as a Super Saiyan tries to best him with a Kamehameha, which Freeza who is lower tanks and beats him.

You make excellent points but Toriyama clearly was implying with the power levels that Goku would edge out a victory like last time.

So when you said how much of a difference 408 and 416 it's 8 that's a little more then the average humans power level. Goku is an average human being stronger than Piccolo. Isn't that insane to think of

Hello i been lurking for a while on this channel but this is my first time commenting. I wanted to know your opinion on an hypotetical fight between Kami Sama and Young Demon King Piccolo. I would love if you could elaborate on a video like this, but if you can't a simple answer here is enough, thank you.

Guiant Namekkian .... Form. Oh thank god. They dont have those.

Lol what was Piccolo gonna do if he actually beat Goku and Raditz never showed up? Like, he clearly has no real desire to rule the world, what does that do for him? I think he'd just go gloat for awhile then sit on a rock and do nothing. Then Goku gets wished back by his friends and comes back to kill him probably.

My man Piccolo has been my favorite since 3rd grade. Win or lose, he was the coolest villain, coolest anti-hero, and became the best true hero and dad. Orange Piccolo is my jam!

"Phew, now that Piccolo spat out the mafuba jar, he can be killed *with no other consequences*."

Ignoring the instant mafuba win, it would be high diff but piccolo could probably get the win since he was probably obsessing over strategies to win more than goku was

Im rooting for Piccolo but more than likely its Goku by a bare margin unless Piccolo miraculously gets to land the makensappo

So in regards to the half of farmer power scale rating, is it the half that can of cant hold tue shotgun??? Or is the farmer ambidextrous??? Is he split in half like a hotdog or in the middle like a burger bun?😅😂

No way they had that conversation in 1 second, so itll probably take 2to 3 mins to charge the SBC still plenty of time for Goku to react.

When I was a kid one time one of my friends called the Special Beam Cannon the Piccolo Brain Gun.

It's pretty clear to me Goku would win. Piccolo's Special Beam Cannon WOULD kill him but the charge time at the time was pretty bad and he'd never be able to charge it up to hit him with it.

Something I wondered, if all the namekians on planet names fused into 1, like the universe 6 namekians did in top saga, could the namekian defeat frieza with all them fusing together or it still won't b enough?

Im oretty sure piccolo would have won here. If goku happned to be hit by a sbc it would simply be over as to where goku would have had to will his way through the fight. And piccolo was always the smarter of the two

If piccolo needs to comment that his killing move is ineffective without a distraction, he isn’t getting his move off. The actual time it takes isn’t relevant. The number of times he can use it is irrelevant if goku can evade. Goku has the advantage, and I can see goku coming out on top through a very difficult match

Actually it makes a lot of difference with the power difference because it's like eight Ordinary People beating the hell out of one ordinary person. The power levels represent how much stronger they are compared to the average person for example the farmer with a shotgun is 5 times stronger than the average person so Goku having eight points higher than Piccolo means that it be 8 average people beating the hell out of the ordinary person that is a big difference that would be very bad for that one person.

Great analysis, Mike! I'd always assumed Goku would stand a better chance since he'd won the previous time and was slightly stronger... And since he was the protagonist, of course. But you clearly demonstrated that Piccolo would have was superior at this point!

10:48 We saw the Antenna Beam again on the U6 tournament against Frost.

God dammit, I always get the wrong end result on your polls! 😂😂

you are assuming goku is being reactive and not proactive with the faster then light comment no way to tell tho tbh

prob 5 seconds in battle if it was 5 minutes it would take 2 hours of episodes

Piccolo flying there could also be the contributer to -8 power level

I think the only way piccolo could win is with the special beam cannon and without a way to get going to hold still idk if he could pull it off

Take a drink everytime you hear "what ends up happening"

YES YES YES !!! HE CAN WIN !!! HE FEELS GREAT !!! HE CAN DO THIS !!!!

13:31 Picollo thinks the dragon cannot restore Goku because if you are killed by a demon your soul itself is destroyed.

I haven't watched the video yet but my pick is piccolo

Mike uploading nearly everyday and still having great indepth discussions is honestly phenomenal godbless dude