GREEN Speed Limit Signs? 

Evening Dan. I’ve not seen any in Merseyside where I am and I’m sure you’re right with them being a way the Parish Council are trying to calm traffic. I’ve not seen them in the Traffic Signs Regulations and General Directions so I have doubts they are even legal. Interesting video. 👍

My issue with these signs is that they have apparently been authorised without any research as to their effectiveness and any potential negative impacts. Two such negatives immediately spring to mind: Firstly 8% of males are colour blind, and the majority of these people have difficulty differeciating red and green. Therefore if a parish council decides to have these signs, but tries to be clever (you know what these councillors can be like) and not include the Advisory this could potentially cause problems for a significant number of drivers. Secondly, studies have shown that increases in the amount of road furniture and signage actually causes safety issue, which is why the road sign legislation was amended around 2015/16 to reduce the number of roadsigns. This unofficial "policy" is actually detrimental to that direction.

Key word " ADVISORY" ,in other words,not legally enforceable as speeding .

Based on my walks with the dog each morning, a lot of people think the usual 30mph speed limits are advisory too.

The regulations that are in force detail size, text, colour, etc. as an ex traffic officer on the motorway they even detail the size of cones, for what use, the spacing, the size and colour, placement of emergency traffic management measures. Even the illumination signs in the rear of police, traffic officer vehicles is detailed, even the scrolling.

I am currently training to become an Approved Driving Instructor, so much swotting up on the laws of the roads. I haven't seen any of these signs here in Sheffield, but forewarned is forearmed. A helpful video. Thanks.

Surely, this proliferation of road confetti is to confirm the area is best avoided and that under no circumstances should anyone visit shops or business there or waste money buying things there. As a small child I used to visit Gloucester, about 30 years later I needed a topping point on a long journey, but the road system ensured I took my trade elsewhere.

Hi Daniel, I’m an Approved Driving Instructor based in Worcestershire. One of the routes I teach on has such an advisory sign, which in addition has the wording “20 is plenty”. This sign is located within a 30mph zone, and has therefore caused a little confusion with my students. How I’ve always explained it to them is something along the lines of “it is our responsibility to drive at an appropriate speed within the speed limit of any road, allowing for the conditions at the point you’re on at any time. If you consider the location of the green bordered 20 sign, it’s at the narrowest point of the 30mph zone, so it would be advisable to adjust your speed to a more appropriate level in any event. My guess is that the local council have installed these to “encourage” a lower speed, and as they’re not bordered in red are not enforceable”. Or words to that effect. I hope this makes sense. I’m glad your video has somewhat validated my thoughts regarding these.

The choice of green is very confusing for ~8% of males who are colour blind. Red-green colour-blindness being the most common.

Has anyone even tried to "speed" past a school, it's simply not possible, due to the oh so entitled in their "chelsea tractors" basically blocking the road/pavement!

We have some of these in Belfast. Ours just have the green circle and the 20 but not other text. I assume it is a cost saving measure to try and reduce the speed on the road without the expense and paperwork of getting it legally changed to 20

Thank you for this, One of my brother in laws like you is a barrister and has said just the same as you. It's local and advisory, Thank you for your excellent information.

A school near me put up unofficial "no parking" signs on the grass opposite the school, and also "no school traffic" signs, again not nzta approved. I have received requests to enforce both types of sign, and I have had to respond that they are not legally enforceable.

Really the highway authority now have a duty to remove them.

There's been a big negative response to 20mph limits, wales for example is now having a rethink, maybe these are an attempt to slow traffic without being accused of forcing motorists to obey.

So basically some local bizzy body is bored and wants to waste somebody else's money.

What I make of these signs, is that after failing to adjust your speed an accident occurs where speed is an issue. The presence of these signs may provide evidence in a civil injury claim. It would be a matter for the judge to allow the evidence to be admitted.

As has been suggested, it is an offence under the Highways Act, 1980 to erect any sign within the public highway without the consent of the Highway Authority for the area. We used this clause to remove signs for boot sales, exhibitions, you name it! .... and A-boards outside shops. The owners of the signs are responsible for the cost of removing the signs.

Unless the Parish Council are ‘the Highway Authority’ for the highway concerned, then they have no right to erect signs on the highway implying that the speed limit is anything other than the speed limit in force for the highway, as administered by the highway authority for the highway… In fact, under the Highways Act 1980 (as amended), posting of unauthorised signage on the public highway (without the consent of the highway authority for the highway), is illegal, and renders the person(s) posting such signage to prosecution under the Highways Act 1980, and may result in fines and costs in respect of the removal of such illegal signage on the highway…!!

I can't say I have any great objection to advisory speed limits, they're just a version of "please drive carefully through our village".

Typical lack of communication between the County / Borough and Parish Council. They are usually at loggerheads. Also could be the community 'Police' you know the ones, retired with high viz jackets on with nothing better to do. Bradford on Avon springs to mind.

What an EXCELLENT IDEA.... *Let's make our roads even safer by putting up yet more distractions which confuse drivers* Many here could no doubt advise quite accurately where these signs might usefully be rolled up & inserted?

There was a FOI request to Somerset back in 2011 about these signs so they have been around for a while but perhaps local authorities are putting more up Has there been some safety conflab with some organisations that put this into a report and councils are thinking “Ooh, thats a good way to reduce speed without red tape”

As they have a green surround perhaps they are meant for EVs only and the rest of us 'normal' ICE drivers can ignore them?

They keep pushing and pushing and pushing......

So no order from the council, which means no street works permit either, going to be some rather hilarious and expensive fines handed out when these people get caught.

A preson with red-green colour blindness may mistake it for a red-bordered sign. People with red-green colour blindness are predominantly male.

There's two ways you can look at this, I think. My first thought was that signs of this type are not in any edition of the Highway Code that I've ever seen. The Highway Code states that circular speed-limit signs with a red border *must* be obeyed. These green-bordered signs are not mentioned, so - as far as the Highway Code is concerned - they don't mean anything. You can ignore them and stick to the red-bordered speed-limit as indicated on the last set of signs you passed. My second thought, though, was this : if you become involved in an accident in the area indicated by the position of the sign, a magistrate may very well ask you if you saw the sign. If you didn't see the sign, then a prosecutor might be able to build a case for driving without due care and attention. If you saw the sign and ignored it, a magistrate or prosecutor might well ask if it even occurred to you to slow down. While you are not required to adhere to an advisory speed limit, it's always better to slow down (even if you end up travelling at a faster speed than the advisory limit). There are two reasons - first, it gives you more time to deal with anything unexpected that may happen; and, second, it shows that you are noting and observing all information that may be relevant to the safety of your journey, and, thus, driving *with* due care and attention. A third thought has occurred to me while I was typing. This may simply be a way to employ psychology to ensure that drivers will adhere to the 30 mph speed limit. (I assume that the places where they've put these signs have a mandatory limit of 30 mph.)

I've seen a few of these put up by Newcastle City Council; just the roundels, without any explanatory text. I've only seen them used on roads that are busy, but residential and/or have a school on them. On some roads, the council have subsequently introduced a mandatory 20mph speed limit. So my guess is that the council hoped that putting advisory 'limit' signs would reduce traffic speed. And if it didn't do so, they opted for a mandatory limit. One thing I have noticed is that when the limit was made mandatory, they didn't remove/replace all of the green signs. So driving along, you might see a red 20moh, followed by a green one and further along another red zone. So, don't assume you can always simply 'ignore' a green 20mph sign - you might already be in a mandatory 20mph zone.

Advisory signs/ signs in place not being council approved "For a sign to be enforceable, there has to be an order..." - does this also apply to signs on public street furniture about private car parking conditions?

There are loads of them across Lincolnshire… mainly outside schools. The one that sticks out to me is the one where a 30 MPH speed camera is right next to one of these signs in Tattershall on the A153 it causes a lot of confusion…

All I hear was, No permission needed to put up my own advisory speed signs in 30mph zones saying 40! .

As usual, he is quite correct. I was at a meeting when these were first being discussed- they were not universally liked by those voting on them. They are not compliant with regulations (Road Traffic Regulations Act, IIRC) and so aren't enforceable in any case. What was discussed, which our learned friend here didn't mention, (either to agree or disagree) is that if you are involved in an accident whilst exceeding the 'recommended limit' then whether a Court could be persuaded that you were driving without due care and attention or worse. On the basis that the council might argue that they specifically warned and you ignored... Even the Police liaison officer in the various meetings was not certain. But that's WNC for you.

I wonder whether the idea is to exploit a fixture in many modern cars: they can read, using an in-built camera, road signs and warn the driver if the vehicle is exceeding the indicated speed. I'm guessing that the image recognition software is 'colour blind', ignoring the colour of the border, thus reading these unofficial signs the same way as official ones

We have a similar conundrum in the USA. A yellow diamond sign warning of curves ahead typically has a speed limit posted…also in yellow. From my driver’s education training, this is an ADVISORY sign and not a mandated speed limit for the upcoming curves. IF the need to do no more than the suggested speed was mandatory it should be a white sign with red border, but I haven’t seen one of those in years. The issue is that sometimes the yellow sign isn’t kidding about slowing down, but most times it’s just an advisory.

In Australia we have [rectangular] yellow signs with advisory speed limits. Completely different to our red-circled white signs. Typically these are accompanied with a pictogram of the hazard (i.e., winding road)

Here in wales a huge amount of roads are going back to 30mph. the backlash was incredible. Schools and hospitals remain 20mph

The Freedom of Information request should be addressed to the parish council, and we may then have found out more.

Hello, we have 20mph boards installed in Thetford, Norfolk in areas where there are Council housing estates where mixed age group families live. These signs however are properly installed with the required legislation, therefore black numerals on a white background within a mandatory RED circle. That's the difference. Red is an instruction, green is a suggestion/advisory. Working on the Red for Danger, Green for Go/all clear practice my opinion is that these particular advisory green bordered signs ought to be Yellow bordered, serving as a Warning. Jon Barnes, Retired.

Given this information I would suggest if you object to these signs appearing around your area you are perfectly entitled to remove them. The Parish Council has no more right to illegally erect signs than Jim does of Jim's Fish and Chips shop. Parish councillors should be discouraged from doing what they like.

"Advisory" is such an Americanism. It would read better as "Advised".

I live in Northampton and they're popping up everywhere. I feel sorry for learners doing there tests, not knowing what they should be doing

There are several of these in Pembrokeshire but they are in black. Since they are advisory there is no end of limit sign too, which really confuses the automatic speed limit recognition systems on the Tesla and BYD.

Why advisory? If there's a need for a particular speed limit then make it statutory. These green signs with a speed indicator are just confusing and spending extra funds unnecessarily. Typical local government 😢

Here in Australia we have forty kilometre speed limit signs near school that have hours attached to them for example 7am to 5pm school days. Advisory speed signs usually before corners are yellow with black borders and are on the same post denoting the curve direction and are not enforceable.

As a colour blind person and with all the current wokeness and disability awareness going on I am always surprised that nobody gives any thought at all about people who are colour blind . For example I used to have a car with red numbers on black on the clocks I couldn't see them at all! These signs are red as far as I am concerned ,and green,and orange etc

We have a similar sign in Australia, it is just a recommended limit for drivers that aren't familiar with the driving conditions ahead and isn't compulsory. It's a yellow sign with black text.

It seems to be a good idea as an advisory sign as long as it is consistent and needs to be added to the Highway Code so everyone knows !

Hmmm, maybe I'll make my own also. Advisory put £20 through my letter box and see what happens! 😂😂

Under the Vienna convention, the proper sign for advisory speed is a blue square with the speed posted in white letters. This openly contradicts the Vienna convention, which the UK has signed and ratified.

I would always try to be helpful and lower speed further if the surroundings warranted extra care.

In the US we have advisory speed limits on most curves, at least in my area. In California for a speed limit sign to be regulatory it must have black letters on a white background rather than a yellow, however, if you did 30 MPH around a curve with a yellow sign advising 10 MPH that would probably be enough for the police to articulate reckless driving or other traffic offenses more serious than an infraction

Hmm so the council don’t have a clue they were there? Because they have “not” been authorised by their own statement so why are they allowed to stay without planning consent 🤷‍♂️

This was a thing on the street of my secondary school in Newcastle around 4-6 years ago. Wasn’t too effective. I was on the eco-council at the time and campaigned for them to be changed to mandatory 20 mph signs. Apparently the reason they only used advisory signs was because the busses couldn’t keep to their time table if forced to go 20 on that road. Nevertheless, a couple years later, they were changed to mandatory signs, probably because there were several near-misses and accidents after school when kids crossed the road for the bus stop. TL:DR, street near secondary school in Newcastle had these. Made them advisory only due to bus time tabling. Changed them to mandatory later as people never went 20 on that street.

I’m a driving instructor in Aberdeen, we’ve had these signs for about 20 years, as long as I’ve been an instructor. Here at the foot of the sign it reads “Twenty’s Plenty”. They are purely advisory. I also understand that the are a lot cheaper to install as there is a lot less admin required in terms of orders, as you mentioned. The local examiners don’t bother much with them as long as the pupils speed is always appropriate. I have noticed over the years many of them are getting replaced with mandatory 20 MPH signs.

These signs stuff up the Speed Limit Assist on cars that have that system. Mercedes had to switch the system off in Australia because of the number of NOT speed limit speed limit signs. A great safety initiative that defeats an existing safety initiative. Great work!! Also IF you have an accident AND your exceeding that limit I'd bet your going to feel all 3 axles of the bus you get thrown under!

We often get these here in Canada, but with signs that say "Slow Children at Play." ☺️ It's the wording that gives us a laugh.

I think these are for traffic speed reduction with the aim of reducing noise, particulate pollution and for pedestrian safety. They are not enforceable. I drive past some (with a red border but rectangular) every day on sharp bends and also warning of queues. Mandatory speed limit changes are tightly regulated, for example they can't be imposed on certain roads until the number of road deaths within a certain distance exceeds a threshold defined IIR by road capacity, usage, speed of traffic, turn radius, proximity of junctions, slope and more. I've been trying to get something like this on the dual-carriageway running through my village since 2020, because a 50 mph advisory is the single thing which would improve quality of life for the most people. The current limit is 70, and as a firefighter and since leaving that service, I have attended many deaths there - but they are not sufficiently frequent and are too far apart to merit the signs.

We've a recommended speeds in Czechia. I guess the distinction is better since max speed is red circle with white filling (shape for bans), while advisory is blue square (just informations - like the sign that you have a right of way over oncoming vehicles). It's usually in places like a lot of sharp turns in forest, places where frozen road is frequent etc. It just tells you there's probably something worth slowing down for.

Interesting to note that insurance companies have discovered that the claims rates are at a fraction in 20mph than of those in a 30mph zone

I am a driving instructor and ONLY speed limits in a red circle are mandatory any other speed restriction signs are advisory only

Cant remember if the ones i saw had a black or green circle around the speed numbér, but saw them on a motorway i am sure it was a temporary speed limit they are allowed to use when working on the road or at the side, temporary as in 30 minutes then removed. Sure i saw something in the highway code few years back now 😊 found it. Black circled signs are orders black triangle warn, black oblong inform, where as red edged circles triangles oblongs are must do 😊

Same with orange flashing signs on motorways. M66 has them every night from 8pm for roadworks starting at 9pm

Very educational indeed Daniel really enjoyed that something I wasn't aware of . Regards . Haley

Ignore any sign unless there is a means of enforcement alongside them, just like traffic lights in the middle of the night

Another one for you to ponder! The Night Mare for London "President" Khan wanted to make speed limits in Central London 10MPH till he was told to go do one!.

A minor irritation of these signs is that the cameras in new cars that pick up speed limits for their limiters think they're normal road signs. That means the car starts bonging at me that I'm going too fast when I'm not...!

Just a thought; with automatic speed controllers to be fitted to new cars, and particularly where they operate through a camera reading a sign, is the idea to restrict traffic speeds without the need for the detailed and lengthy process to do it "properly"?!?

surly they are illigal due to the fact that a colour blind person would struggle to tell the shade difference between green and red boarders which could cause confusion on what is enforcable as well as to a colourblind person these signs could be seen as inpersonating legal signs.

It's advice which I hope will decrease the average speed through these areas to safer levels.

In Canada offramps from highways have yellow speed limit signs which is only a suggested limit, so the highway speed limit is still in effect until you reach the next white speed limit sign. ( not that you could maintain that speed with most vehicles, except perhaps motorcycles and good sports cars)

If a traffic sign is NOT in the TSRGD then it can't be placed on the public highway and certainly NOT by a parish council as they are not the highway authority.

On a related matter, I know of a road that has very convincing 5mph signs with a black 5 in a red border. My friend who worked for Highways at the council assured me it wasn't official and not enforceable. It is interesting that it is legal to put up signs that are the same as the official ones.

If the parish council responsible for these signs don't also own the street furniture they are attached to then wouldn't that mean that they'd need permission to attach the signage? It wouldn't surprise me if the traffic department of the local council, now they have been made aware of these signs, removed them and charged the parish council for the service and any subsequent damage that has been caused.

A whole BIG group of people got paid a big amount of taxpayers cash for essentially nothing

These aren't new but sometimes they are written in white on the road like they are a limit. I was once driving with loads of cars up my backside in a 30mph limit. I got the the 20 mph advisory and carried on at 30mph. There was a speed van there and all the inpatient people jammed their brakes on down to 20mph. I continued at 30mph and smiled a lot! PS the council should have wrote back to the FOI requester and advised them to contact the parish council.

My assumption when driving along would be this advisory speed limit is an official sign that replaces the last sign I passed, giving me the discretion of driving at whatever speed I considered to be safe with only an advisory for 20mph.

Parish councils are the worst. People who get a tiny bit of authority and somehow think they have power to do anything.

Unless a Parish Council is the 'Highway Authority' with powers specifically delegated to them by the Borough Council or Unitary Authority in which the parish lays, then these signs can - and should - be removed. It is muddying the waters of liability if adherence to the instruction contained with the sign contributes to an accident. Also, all road signs must meet the specifications contained within the Traffic Signs Regulations and General Directions Act 2022. If they don't, they are unenforceable.

It'll be interesting to see if cars with speed limiters will see these as mandatory signs and react accordingly.

I have a friend that works for the road maintenance department in Edinburgh I asked him they're not approved street furniture and a council wouldn't install these however a private citizen is allowed to install them on the street they live on/ their business is on unless it obstructs the road or pavement it's installed on and they are unenforceable at thia moment it time

As a retired instructor myself it would probably add weight to any 'without due care' offence if an accident occurred, police may often quote Highway Code advice if pursuing any offences so could well do similar with these advisory signs. Obviously breaking an actual Highway Code rule (must/must not) is an absolute offence.

These signs are a breach of the Vienna convention and the confusion they cause, as demonstrated by this video, is a demonstration of the efficacy of that treaty.

As one of approximately three million colour blind people in the UK, why are signs and warning lights always in green and red not to mention the electronics industry, TVs multiple household appliances ,these are the two most difficult colours to differentiate between, sorry rant over.

Advisory says it all.

Have seen a lot around my area but are in black. These are near schools and some housing estates. Interesting will have to look into it.

The problem with these signs is that some people obey them and others don't. Those who don't overtake those who do, sometimes dangerously, which creates a hazard.

Even if it had a red border, most drivers still see it as advisory and think they can be ignored. BTW there is no such thing as "Common Sense" anymore !

Control of traffic signs is essential to avoid ambiguity, confusion and sign clutter which may cause harm to motorists, pedestrians, property and the environment. To be legally placed, green bordered speed limits require the prior approval the national authority. Anyone placing an unauthorised traffic sign on the highway risks liability for any harm caused thereby. A Parish Council erecting such a sign without such prior approval acts ultra vires i.e. illegally.

Until something happens and the Police say that the Advisory Speed Limit was 20mph and that you were driving 50% over that. The only thing the court/Jury will hear is “50% faster than”.

The only speed limits that can be legally enforced are in a Red Circle as those are signs giving an order. Any other are advisory be it these, the ones on none smart motorways or any without a circle so you can’t get done for going over 20 but, obviously you should always travel at a safe speed.

Its happening right in front of our eyes yet very few can see it 🙄 yet

At the schools near me they just have a sign that states "20 when lights show" and it has 2 yellow flashing lights on it between about 2:45 and 3:30. It is written in a standard box sign though so probably not legally enforceable. Realistically I think these signs will just cause confusion more than anything else.

I've always assumed the "twenty's plenty" green bordered 20 signs around here were essentially a "polite request" to keep speed down in an otherwise mandatory 30 zone (through road with tight corners in a residential and school area). This seems to be borne out by the fact that in one location here, the "twenty's plenty" switches to a mandatory 20 with a red border, and in other locations have a sort of "end of 20 zone" sign alongside regular 30s.

The introduction of technology like speed limit recognition in cars could interact badly with this kind of thing. Worse, a joker could put one up saying “80”, and then what does a a Tesla do? There’s also been problems with some systems being bad at reading 3’s as 8’s. Get the font of a 3 slightly wrong and the risk goes up. Obvs that doesn’t impact a “20” but a poorly thought out advisory “30” could cause havoc.

Thats the same as a black boarder 20 speed limit. Its advisory/recommended - but the street lights indicate the national speed unless otherwise red boarder signed. Unless you're in Wales and its 20 in red national speed regardless, that looks like a dragon if you're in a school area. Local councils just want to use the full budget to get more next year. In essance putting up additional and needless signs, or replacing existant signs that already serve the purpose is just a waste of tax payers money in general 🤦‍♀️ Green boardered signs has the same affect as red paint on roads - theres not really a purpose to it other than to highlight the immediate area of advised traffic restriction and use up the budget. Thats my opinion only.

Next step: use the philosophy of advertisers. "The speed limit can vary up to 40 Mph" It doesn't say anything, it doesn't specify anything.....but we can probably give you a fine, if we feel like it, if you go over 5 mph. As someone once said: "It's enforced to buy the new Jag for the chief constable."

Not sure I like the shade of green, perhaps a little more yellow to make it more visible? If it were OVAL IT WOULD ALSO ATTRACT MORE ATTENTION. where I live we have various colours painted on our roads that do not appear in the Highway Code or anywhere else I can find. And, naturally, they paint them once, all terribly necessary, then they just fade away never to be maintained. Different department, different budget I guess.

The main road through West Haddon already has traffic calming measures. There is a give way chicane system there.

Advisory can set a standard for carelessness, though. We also have the ULEZ signage.