Seems like the iso cab has a resonance at around 190 - 200 Hz, there's a fairly pronounced "G" I can hear once the cab was isolated. It seems even more pronounced with the lid open. I suppose It's something you could correct with EQ, and is probably worth the isolation you're getting. Great (and thorough) demo though, as always!
Wow! I don't have a need for the 'isolation' per se, but MAN that box really focused the tone vs. the open room. Never thought the room was THAT a big deal with loud close mic'd amps. Making me rethink recording live amps now... Thanks for this!
@@creativesoundlab that's one of the brands used in computer cooling. Computer geeks often want to minimize fan noise because that's the bulk of noise a computer makes. (Particularly now that SSDs are so common and optical drives are being used less.) That said, the fan is hardly the biggest source of noise when you're talking guitar amps. You'll probably get more noise just from turning up the gain.
if youre going mod this fan though youd better be sure they operate within the same voltage range, you could easily end up with a fan that doesnt move or a fan pinned at 100% rpm which is loud as fuck
@@Jabskin You're right, although Noctua has 2 options 12v and 5v, the latter can operate from a USB port, they even include an adapter in the box. You second point, that's a given. Any fan you use in that cabinet will operate at 100% RPM, I doubt the cabinet has any fan control (voltage regulated or PWM). But then again Noctua fans are very silent at 100% compare to any other option but you get a LNA (Low noise adapter) in the box to operate the fan at a lower RPM despite the lack of fan control.
Love the double tracked 57 tone! I gotta say though, I prefer the sound without iso cab. It sounds a lot more open. Obviously a good option if you don't have a soundproof liveroom, but I would prefer building an extra room for guitar amps if I was looking for isolation.
@@creativesoundlab that's what struck me the first time I heard a guitar amp through a mic. Mics lose tons of what you actually hear in person, because they only pick up a small amount of the overall sound. Hence the pain in the neck it is trying to get the mic to match what you hear in the best possible way.
You could maybe use a live room convolution very low in mix. What seems like a problem is maybe not being able to mic with distance. Seems like i would want one double the size. Its just a different sound avoiding proximity and you could compensate for the change in sound doing this. However it may pick up more "boxiness", so for cleans perhaps I would even prefer taking out the box in an untreated room.
jorgepeterbarton I don’t think a convolution will solve this issue. It’s not about the reverb, but it’s more about the frequencies that are being quickly absorbed by the iso box. Those frequencies are able to move around freely in a larger room, and while a convolution can create reverb, it can’t create the frequencies that were coming from the cab in the first place.
Technically, since that is an open-backed Fender, to get the out of ISO sound inside the ISO you need to pipe the back of that cab into a separate ISO cab. As is, all of that air pressure that normally dissipates out the back and away from the front (where the mics are) just gets blown back around the cabinet and interferes with the air pressure near the mics. That obviously reinforces the more powerful frequencies (lows) and muddies up the highs, ie bye-bye sparkly chimey Fender sound. That would drive me insane. I would cut a 6" hole in the back of that ISO cab and run a PVC pipe out of it into literally any box of equal size a few feet away. Of course, the extension cab and pipe would all have to be dampened and weighed down. Otherwise, it's unusable imo - except for closed-back cabinets.
Definitely something I could use in my home based studio. Tried to connect with the company website, but having issues. If you are in contact, maybe pass that along.
It's for sure a great option for recording a live session where mic bleed is both a blessing and curse and some amps just doesn't sound good at low volumes. A cabinet and a head would reduce the need for the fan. I've got an old trunk with steel, brass and wood which I'm gonna turn into an ISO box.
Many comments seem to be eschewing the iso cab a bit but the whole point of these cabs is one of utility over tone. In places where you can't have an open room mic situation you aren't left with a lot of options to capture a "real" tone. I'd rather mic in an iso cab than use modeling in my home environment. Even with 20 db down through an attenuation device, its sketchy if I'll wake up my daughter and my wife complains if she hears it at all. In the room sound is a comfortable level and records well for me. Alternatively, they can be a good solution to a bad sounding room. I think for the right people it lets them have a chance at hearing their own gear on the monitor instead of using models or IRs and essentially using someone else's. I'm almost always more satisfied with my own equipment. If I could open room mic my cab with two mics and no regard to volume, I'd love it but its not in the cards for me. Equipment like this can make it possible though. All that being said, I like the sound of the open room mic the most too lol!
Thanks Bill. I think you've captured the essence of what this cab is about, and I like the tone outside the box too! Ryan really put it to the test by using ribbon mics! I think he did that because I told him that was one of the worst mics for this cab, but it still turned out ok. :) Sennheiser e609 is one of the best case scenario mics for this cab.
For sure as long as you dont expect it to mimick being loud exactly. A lot of that is moving air and how it changes the room sound being loud. To me its for when yoy dont want neighbors knocking down the door. Sometimes acceptable level i can hear the unplugged strings coming in! And that doesnt cook the tubes or speaker much either.
I wonder if you could've gotten them to sound pretty much the same with some eq on the amp and adding room in post. Feels like the high end is bouncing back and being captured because you know, high end, but not happening in the cab because of course not.
I built a smallish vocal booth with a feet thick of mixed sound proofing material and air traps. I use it so often for recording cabs and sometimes I mix the dry sound with a cab recorded in a room. I Highly recommend one of these. I Usually just put the speaker cab in the booth and have the amp outside so it doesn't get too hot. That way I can also tweak the settings as I go.
Great vid. The cab looks nice, and it is useful I think, when necessary. Good build quality as well, but I still think that it sounded better without cab. More natural and open.
You’d be shocked how quickly the material costs for a DIY iso box add up if you want to do it right. I’m not sure you could build one yourself for much less money.
What tends to be the price killer for me when looking at DIYIng road cases is all the extruded aluminum hardware. Buying a meter or two at a time costs a LOT more than buying in bulk like a commercial product would.
@@dcurry7287 same goes with rivets, corners, latches, handles and good casters. I built a flight case for a Marshall head 20 years ago. Despite the project going way over budget, it's held up like a champ and kept my amp safe from travels.
The optimum DIY approach would be to pick up a new or used flight case at the right price, then add the insulation, wiring, fans, connectors...which bumps the cost up - plus all the time to do the job. Could be worthwhile, provided the end result/sound is good.
Very hard to believe this is 93db. 4:00 I just did a VERY similar test in my studio with a home built iso box. Same reduction achieved here, about -20db. Even with the amp in the iso box it was loud in the room at 85db (measured 105db outside iso box.) 85db was still too loud to monitor in same room. I'm skeptical you didn't lower the volume for this video.
I guess it would depend on the weighting used, but if you can speak over the amp in the cab, wouldn’t the dB be more in the ballpark of 60dB? Regardless your still looking at the same dB attenuation, 20dB is nothing to scoff at.
Hey Cameron -- The reduction increases with frequency. At 500hz, the reduction is about 36 db. At 4khz, it's 52 db. badaxecabs.com/blog/3-ventilated-cabs-compared-for-sound-reduction/
The isolation works pretty good, but the downside of this is that low mids and lows can built up in certain spots in the ISO Cab. The cab obviously stops a lot of those lower frequencies from going out, but that means they get reflected inside and probably not absorbed enough. The absorbion just seems a bit thin to achieve high absorbion levels at let's say 100-250hz. The highs obviously get absorbed completely in there. So I guess it's a matter of thinking what's giving you less trouble. The bleed/noise or the low mid built up.
Hey Florian, you are correct about the tendency for lows/ low mids to build up in small spaces. This was a concern I addressed after some early prototypes. The front baffle has 2" of high density sound absorption, plus 3/4" foam rubber. Depending on the mic used, and the distance from the front speaker baffle to the front of the Bad Axe Cab, these effects are minimized. The Sennheiser e609 is particularly good in this respect. Check out this posting to see a comparison of frequency responses inside vs. outside the cab: badaxecabs.com/blog/micd-speaker-measurements-compared/
@@badaxecabs2593 thanks for chiming in! The measuremts on your site look very good! You are right, sticking to a tighter cardoid pickup pattern is best in this scenario. I also thought the ribbon in this test was a bit more unbalanced in lows inside the cab (being figure of 8) than the good old 57 ;)
Decent review, one thing, maybe just a personal opinion, for me, I found I lost reference about half way through each sample as my ears adjust and analyze. For me, It would be much easier to compare each if the samples were really quick like 1.5 sec each or something. Just saying this from a players perspective. When I record we do reference checks a lot, anyways, that's what works for me. I really think the amp in the room sounded best over all, there was a depth midrange not present in the iso cab, which seemed more "in your face."
Nice recordings. I thought that there must be something like isolated boxes. These would be so good for a non super soindproof house by neighbor's if you wanted to record an amp. I bet someone could build a giant one of a giant amp if they wanted to. I have seen some dyi ones, but this one looks nice to me and I believe you don't need huge amps to get good tone and medium ones should be good enough for lots of people and applications. You could even get a guitar amp miced at some venues to get it louder plus if you know how to setup a mic with an amp well and the placement you want, then you might be able to do that. Some venues Never require giant amps for music to be heard thought.
The iso-cab prevents the speakers from breathing as if it were in an open room and therefore sounds hampered or "compressed" somewhat. Sounds better without the iso-cab. BUT the iso-cab can be used in tandem with an open room amp. Granted the purchase of an iso-cab and the transporting weighs in on the overall cost effectiveness and would be worth it if one's sound revolves around having an iso-cab in the mix. Mike of Incubus plays live with an iso-cab run off a Marshall head in addition to his other amps facing the audience.
@@creativesoundlab Another thing to consider is it may be more versatile to use an iso-cab that has an internal speaker instead of putting a combo amp in a box. Although the Bad Axe iso-cab's design for the combo amp was thought out for ventilation, the acoustics of using an open back combo amp was not taken into consideration in that the front wave that normally cancels with the back wave in an open back cab is more constricted inside the box where in an open room the angles of incidence for the front and back waves are less likely to bump into each other causing extreme phase cancellation. A closed-back combo amp might fare better in that Bad Axe cab using a sealed speaker that will not be affected as the open back. Having said that, with the amp outside the box it is more utilitarian in that you can tweak the amp without having to guess and opening the box to get at the controls numerous times. An iso-cab with internal speaker will be using a sealed type enclosure with a speaker chosen for the constricted confines of a high decibel environment. This way all needs to be done is connect a speaker cable. Queensryche's Eddie Jackson used an iso-cab in addition to his bass amp to get speaker breakup during recording of their early albums.
I'm not sure where this is useful. It's an absolutely HUGE box and if you've got that much space, you've probably got a studio so noise isn't an issue. If you're working from home you probably don't have the space for the box. You are probably better off using a power-soak and software to replace the cab. Re-amp'ing later or at a studio, or, gasp, going fully software!
Hey Rhinokitty -- The Radio Shack meter Ryan has is a classic! For basic measurements, check out the Galaxy CM-130. www.galaxyaudio.com/products/cm-130
Worse thing you can do is put a guitar cab in a box, loses all the upper mids. I remember a live recording I did at a gig in a large hall, I loved how open the close mic sounded compared to when I closed mic recorded in my bedroom at home. Less walls and objects to bounce off the better. Still I guess this compromise might work where separation and keeping happy neighbours is required.
A lot of producers really swear against vocal booths. This is supposed to be done for isolation. From neighbors. From external noise. From a live band when tracking vocals. Yet its become standard, for no reason. Hey, we've got this lush treated room but record in this telephone box please??
