After losing my membership 2yrs ago, I have been down many roads trying to make sense of my testimony. I never lost it, but certainly had many of the history issues challenge me on occasion in the year after. My problem was, I always knew the church was true even though I didn't have the answers to these questions. This video intellectually gave me all those answers, and was confirmed by the Spirit. It feels like this will be the answer to my prayers for my young married children who are struggling as well. I can't wait to get the book.
"...and was confirmed by the Spirit." Most other Christian religions also point to "the Spirit" as confirmation to them that the LDS Church is not true, the Joseph Smith was not a prophet of God, and that the Book of Mormon is not a historical record of ancient Native Americans. So, is a confirmation by "the Spirit" really a reliable way to know whether something is true or not?
@@bettyking5032 In this context it is the Holy Ghost. Which gives you true enlightment; an intellectual clarity of the truth though you may not be able to express it in words.
@@bettyking5032 Without using the word "salt" or "salty" how would you describe what salt taste like to someone who had never tried it. The spirit can be like that. You can't always describe it but you know it when it "speaks" to you
One thing Hannah mentioned in another interview is how the enemies to Christ did the same thing that many are doing today (including in this forum), which was to try and destroy the character of Jesus Christ. Saying he has a devil, he spends his time with the low-lifes of society, that he is no more than the son of a carpenter. Many listened to those voices, to the point where enough believed them that they actually murdered the Son of God. Now, as we get closer and closer (we can all feel it) to the Second Coming, Satan is going nuts trying to get the world to destroy the character of Joseph Smith by relying on falsehoods, character witnesses from people who were enemies to him or his family, etc. It would be like having the gospel according to Judas Escariot, or the Sadducees and taking their word for it instead of what we get by those who truly knew and loved the Lord. Am I saying I think Joseph Smith was perfect? No - I didn’t know him personally, but when I read the history from reliable sources, including some of my own ancestors who knew him not only as the prophet, but as a friend, who helped remove the tar and feathers from this man who the very next day would stand and preach on forgiveness. As for me, I’m 100% on team Joseph Smith.
It's by faith in Jesus Christ we are saved. NOT faith in Joseph Smith -- or anything he said or claimed. There are 2.83 billion Christians currently in the world who will spend eternity in Heaven with God and Jesus -- none of whom have a "temple recommend" nor could care a rat's butt about Joseph Smith. But you go ahead -- have your 100% team Joseph party, wear the sacred undergarments, get the temple recommends, wear the baker's cap and apron, get that secret name, use those sacred handshakes to call your wife up into non-existent exaltation, become a god, have sex with your heavenly wife, make spirit babies (and try to get them to behave well in their pre-mortal existence so they won't have to work through so many issues during their mortal life), get your own planet to rule . . . Have fun. While it lasts. Before the the multi-billion dollar corporate organization known as the Corporation of the President of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints and its subsidiary, the Corporation of the Presiding Bishop (aka "the church") backtracks on everything it has claimed for it's own financial cya, and detaches from any and all claims with the following disclaimer: "While we cannot guarantee that anything we claim to believe is true, and cannot guarantee delivery on any promise made, nevertheless we believe that if you believe these things you will be blessed" (the gist of the Gospel Topics Essays). In other words, FIND OUT FOR YOURSELF. Don't take what we say as a promise or guarantee of anything, and do not hold us accountable for anything (i.e. believe it at your own risk). ( . . . and, oh yes, btw, DO keep your tithing current ...)
Andrew Ehat is the real deal ! We were in his ward until we just barely moved away. He always has had great insights during Sunday-School and Priesthood Meetings. 17:13 and 45:45
I agree. No one ever tells a story exactly the same way each time they tell it. If they do tell a story word for word each and every time then they’ve rehearsed it.
I actually bought her two books before this presentation and have finished the first, getting into the second. Well researched and very informative. Makes me want to go out and defend the faith, the history and the doctrine of the Church like Hannah is. Hoorah for Israel!
They aren't defending the prophet. They are giving an overly whitewashed take on their lives. Joseph Smith was amazing because of his strengths, weaknesses, and complexities. The Lord used him to translate The Book of Mormon. The Lord doesn't use absolutely perfect; something the Stoddards never understood.
I recently read a book published by Deseret Book that stated that the church no longer warrants that the Scriptures are without error. They state that when God speaks with man he uses the language of the God's. Therefore error is possible. I was always taught that when God speaks he does so clearly.
out of curiosity, when did the church ever hold the position that the scriptures were without error to begin with? I know that a lot of protestants are extremely sensitive about the inerrancy of the word of god. however, the LDS scriptures are full of phrases like "the most correct" book on earth (not a perfect book, just more correct than others). or "if there be mistakes, they are the mistakes of men", or Moroni asking us to forgive us for his weakness in writing the text. or nephi saying that if he could speak instead of write, it would be more accurate. The 8th article of faith casts doubt on the idea that the bible is without error, and does say the Book of Mormon is the Word of God, but it doesn't go so far as to say "without error". I dont think that the church itself has ever had a stance on inerrancy of the scriptures, only that the source of the scriptures is God. The idea that scriptures are inerrant is an idea brought into the church by its members, not taught from the top down (to my knowledge).
I have looked at it from the perspective of God's Word is infallible and inerrant, but it goes through human limitations to reach us. A good example of this is comparing Lehi's Dream with Nephi's Vision of that Dream. Both came away from it with different information because of how differently each one if them thought. The Book of Mormon has the most perfect translation, but it still came through the mind of an almost illiterate farm boy, so there are mistakes, but they are the mistakes of men.
I also watched a general authority give a talk at a fire side. He told those in attendance that the narrative the church has used for 150 years is gone. He stated that we have a culture in Utah that we need to maintain and is worth maintaining. He stated that a new narrative needs to to created and taught. In doing so the church may lose grandma to keep the Grandson. Read the CES LETTER. It will help you understand what is meant when he says that the old narrative is gone.
I spent over 2 years looking into the "stone in the hat" stories and came to the same conclusion that the Stoddard's did. Studying the history of the" history " was an eye opener where much of the revisionist history comes from. In my mind most revisionist history is benign but some can be faith bending when it's presented as absolute fact when, in fact, much of it may or may not ITSELF be misinterpreted, distorted, or false. It's fine to present something as " here's what some people say..." but to kick out traditional history and replace it with something that itself may not be fully factually or is greatly distorted will result it conflicting emotions in almost everybody. Since none of us lived on earth during early church history how are we to interpret this history? And even when it comes to interpreting current events, how do we put all these puzzle pieces together? There is only one way... our spirits must be in lock-step with the Holy Ghost.
"I spent over 2 years looking into the "stone in the hat" stories and came to the same conclusion that the Stoddard's did." LOL. Maybe you should forward your research to LDS Church president Russell Nelson, who said: "The details of this miraculous method of translation are still not fully known. Yet we do have a few precious insights. David Whitmer wrote: “Joseph Smith would put the seer stone into a hat, and put his face in the hat, drawing it closely around his face to exclude the light; and in the darkness the spiritual light would shine. A piece of something resembling parchment would appear, and on that appeared the writing. One character at a time would appear, and under it was the interpretation in English. Brother Joseph would read off the English to Oliver Cowdery, who was his principal scribe, and when it was written down and repeated to Brother Joseph to see if it was correct, then it would disappear, and another character with the interpretation would appear. Thus the Book of Mormon was translated by the gift and power of God, and not by any power of man.” (David Whitmer, An Address to All Believers in Christ, Richmond, Mo.: n.p., 1887, p. 12.) ---Ensign magazine, July 1993. You should also let the church scholars who published the Gospel Topics essays on the church's website know about it, because they wrote this: "Joseph Smith and his scribes wrote of two instruments used in translating the Book of Mormon. According to witnesses of the translation, when Joseph looked into the instruments, the words of scripture appeared in English. One instrument, called in the Book of Mormon the “interpreters,” is better known to Latter-day Saints today as the “Urim and Thummim.” Joseph found the interpreters buried in the hill with the plates.16 Those who saw the interpreters described them as a clear pair of stones bound together with a metal rim. The Book of Mormon referred to this instrument, together with its breastplate, as a device “kept and preserved by the hand of the Lord” and “handed down from generation to generation, for the purpose of interpreting languages.”17 "The other instrument, which Joseph Smith discovered in the ground years before he retrieved the gold plates, was a small oval stone, or “seer stone.”18 As a young man during the 1820s, Joseph Smith, like others in his day, used a seer stone to look for lost objects and buried treasure.19 As Joseph grew to understand his prophetic calling, he learned that he could use this stone for the higher purpose of translating scripture.20 "Apparently for convenience, Joseph often translated with the single seer stone rather than the two stones bound together to form the interpreters. These two instruments-the interpreters and the seer stone-were apparently interchangeable and worked in much the same way such that, in the course of time, Joseph Smith and his associates often used the term “Urim and Thummim” to refer to the single stone as well as the interpreters.21" I suggest that you also inform the Mormon apologetic org FAIRLDS, who published this: www.fairlatterdaysaints.org/answers/Book_of_Mormon/Translation/Seer_stone#Question:_How_did_Joseph_Smith_use_his_seer_stones_as_a_youth.3F And maybe you could pay attention to the person who was closest to Joseph Smith during the production of the Book of Mormon---his wife Emma: "In writing for your father I frequently wrote day after day, often sitting at the table close by him, he sitting with his face buried in his hat, with the stone in it, and dictating hour after hour with nothing between us." Or maybe you could ponder the account of Joseph Knight, who was one of the first people to ever join Joseph Smith's church, and was a lifelong faithful member: "Now the way he translated was he put the urim and thummim into his hat and darkened his eyes then he would take a sentance and it would appear in brite roman letters then he would tell the writer and he would write it then that would go away the next sentence would come and so on. But if it was not spelt rite it would not go away till it was rite, so we see it was marvelous. Thus was the hol [whole] translated." Or maybe you could just continue to believe Hannah Stoddard, who is wrong about virtually everything she talks about regarding Mormon history.
Hannah, this is great… Thank you! I have question… Why is the church allowing this and why are they not being more forthcoming? Or is this something they are working on? I know I’ve been asked this a lot by my friends that are really struggling or have left and I don’t have an answer. Thank you.
But Hannah the church taught us that he came out publicly with the first vision in 1820 and that is why he was ridiculed and people said bad things about him and called him a treasure digger. So that’s the story we grew up with only because it was told from the pulpit. So when we find out the first vision didn’t exactly come out right after and people called him a treasure digger because he was then it makes you wonder why the church whitewashed it. Quit gaslighting everyone it is very rude.
True history states that Joseph and his father worked for someone who was a treasure hunter for a very short time. Joseph and his father even tried to talk him out of continuing with it. This is where the treasure Hunter narrative comes from. All blown up and distorted from Joseph’s haters and detractors.
Order of priority… •words directly from Heavenly Father •words directly from Christ •words directly from the person first hand… like Joseph Smith •words directly from an eyewitness… like Oliver Cowdrey •words during the time period before a falling away occurred… like the words of Emma before Joseph died, the things she said after he died and during her second marriage are completely opposite to the things she said before etc… •words said by people who have proven to be trustworthy who lived during the same time period… the further you get away from the time period, the less trustworthy these words are *Joseph’s actual words are more trustworthy than a scholar’s words who lives today etc… •working with the Holy Ghost to know which version of anything, no matter what the subject is, is correct and the one to be trusted •all words said after this are to be taken with the biggest grain of salt possible, until Christ returns and personally confirms all the things that are actually true… we do not need to trust in man, Christ is returning and we can trust him 💗💗💗
Order of priority for Christians: * faith in God from hearing The Word of God * The Bible - God's Word * faith in Jesus as Savior * The Holy Spirit * prayer * obediance: love God, love your neighbor * gratitude * joy
I watched an interview will President Nelson. He was explaining that the Seer Stone was indeed used to translate the BOM. He even out the stone in a hat to demonstrate how it was used.
Joseph Smith, Wentworth Letter, 1842, quote: "With the records was found a curious instrument, which the ancients called “Urim and Thummim,” which consisted of two transparent stones set in the rim of a bow fastened to a breast plate. Through the medium of the Urim and Thummim, I translated the record by the gift and power of God. In this important and interesting book, the history of ancient America is unfolded, from its first settlement by a colony that came from the Tower of Babel, at the confusion of languages to the beginning of the fifth century of the Christian Era. We are informed by these records that America in ancient times, has been inhabited by two distinct races of people. The first were called Jaredites, and came directly from the Tower of Babel. The second race came directly from the city of Jerusalem, about six hundred years before Christ. They were principally Israelites, of the descendants of Joseph. The Jaredites were destroyed about the time that the Israelites came from Jerusalem, who succeeded them in the inheritance of the country. The principal nation of the second race fell in battle towards the close of the fourth century. The remnant are the Indians that now inhabit this country."
@@kdeltatube Since the Tower of Babel story is fiction and not a literal historical event, and the BoM claims that it was a literal historical event that led the Jaredites to the Americas, it destroys the credibility of BoM historicity claims by Joseph Smith and the LDS Church.
You people are trying to maintain myths and fables. You can't deny the dominant narrative. Richard Bushman is not the only one facing reality. Pres. Nelson and other leaders realize this. Joseph Smith himself was deceptive about the seer stone. He definitely used the seer stone. Why didn't Joseph talk about it? 🤔Think about it.
You asked, "Why didn't Joseph talk about it?" Maybe because he had already been arrested in 1826 for defrauding others of their money by pretending to see buried treasure with it. Despite the numerous times he defrauded others of their money by pretending he knew where buried treasure was, no treasure was ever found.
@@kdeltatube The problem with that 1842 quote is that the term "Urim and Thummim" did not exist in Mormonism until after the Book of Mormon was published, and after Joseph founded his church. The historical evidence shows that one of Joseph's followers, most likely WW Phelps, discovered the term in the Old Testament around 1831, and Joseph began using it. Before then, all references to the translating device called it the "seer stone" or "the interpreters." Every eyewitness to the production of the Book of Mormon testified that Joseph used the "stone in the hat" method, rather than the "two stones in silver bows, fastened to a breastplate" method. The logical deduction being that Joseph made the change in order to distance his religious claims from his earlier occult folk-magic practice, in which he used the seer stone in the hat business to pretend to see buried treasure. As an example, the term "Urim and Thummim" did not appear in the original 1833 "Book of Commandments." When Joseph Smith revised the BOC into the 1835 "Doctrine and Covenants," he interpolated the term "Urim and Thummim" into an alleged pre-1830 "revelation" to make it appear that the term had been used in the original publication.
confused at the 11 min mark they say that the seer stone is has NO eye witnesses account yet the church is including it in their cannon on the app. so why is it NOT true but they are publishing it on the church web page?
EVERY eyewitness to the production of the Book of Mormon said that Joseph used the "seer stone in the hat" method, rather than the "two stones in silver bows, fastened to a breastplate" business. Here is his wife Emma's statement: "In writing for your father I frequently wrote day after day, often sitting at the table close by him, he sitting with his face buried in his hat, with the stone in it, and dictating hour after hour with nothing between us." And here is the account of Joseph Knight, who was one of Joseph's earliest converts, and who was a lifelong faithful member: "Now the way he translated was he put the urim and thummim into his hat and darkened his eyes then he would take a sentance and it would appear in brite roman letters then he would tell the writer and he would write it then that would go away the next sentence would come and so on. But if it was not spelt rite it would not go away till it was rite, so we see it was marvelous. Thus was the hol [whole] translated." Knight's account is particularly enlightening because he said that Smith would "put the urim and thummim into his hat." That means that the "Urim and Thummim" was actually just one of Joseph's "seer stones." The term "Urim and Thummim" was not used in Mormon circles until after the BOM was published and Joseph founded his church. Before then, the object was called "seer stone" or "interpreters". Historical evidence suggests that one of Joseph's followers, WW Phelps, came across the term in the Old Testament around 1831, and Joseph began using it in order to make his claimed translating abilities sound more Biblical, and to distance himself from his 1820s activities in which he used the seer stones to hunt to buried objects---the practice for which he was arrested and brought into court on March 20, 1826. The logical deduction being that there never was any "two stones in silver bows, fastened to a breastplate." All he ever had was the stones which he had found while digging a well or in creeks. As Joseph's father-in-law, Isaac Hale, testified: "I went to the house where Joseph Smith Jr., lived, and where he and Harris were engaged in their translation of the Book. Each of them had a written piece of paper which they were comparing, and some of the words were "my servant seeketh a greater witness, but no greater witness can be given him." There was also something said about "three that were to see the thing"--meaning I supposed, the Book of Plates, and that "if the three did not go exactly according to orders, the thing would be taken from them." I enquired whose words they were, and was informed by Joseph or Emma, (I rather think it was the former) that they were the words of Jesus Christ. I told them then, that I considered the whole of it a delusion, and advised them to abandon it. The manner in which he pretended to read and interpret, was the same as when he looked for the money-diggers, with the stone in his hat, and his hat over his face, while the Book of Plates were at the same time hid in the woods!"
@@fightingfortruth9806 LOL. First off, if those accounts are not credible, you have to explain how Joseph Smith's closest relatives and followers managed to all tell the same false story. Since the people who were around Smith during his folk-magic practice days from at least 1822-26 related that he used the stone-in-the-hat business to pretend to see buried items, their accounts of his method are corroborated by those of the witnesses to the BOM's production merely 4-5 years later. Secondly, Joseph Knight was indeed present during the BOM production process. If you'd studied the history, you'd know that Joseph Knight was one of Smith's earliest and most loyal converts and benefactors: " in the winter of 1828, Joseph and Emma came to Knight seeking his assistance. Joseph was trying to make progress on the translation of the Book of Mormon, but he was limited by various factors, including their poor financial circumstances and Joseph’s need to work in order to provide for their needs. Knight remember that he personally “was not in easy circumstances” at the time, but he gave them “some little provisions.” Then in early 1829, Knight gave Joseph “a little money to buy paper to translate.”7 "After Oliver Cowdery arrived in April 1829, Joseph and Oliver began making rapid progress on the translation.8 By the later part of May, they had run out of paper and other provisions, and so Oliver and Joseph went to Colesville (about thirty miles away) to see if Knight could assist them.9 Knight was away at the time, but when he returned home, his family informed him of Joseph and Oliver’s request for assistance. Immediately, Knight bought large quantities of fish, grain, and potatoes, along with “some lined paper for writing” and went down to Harmony. When he arrived, Joseph and Oliver were out looking for work. As Knight recalled, “They returned home and found me there with provisions, and they were glad.” ---"How Was the Joseph Knight Family Important to Bringing Forth the Book of Mormon?" from the Book of Mormon Central website. Thirdly, the Gospel Topics essay on the LDS Church's official website has affirmed the stone-in-the-hat version: "Joseph Smith and his scribes wrote of two instruments used in translating the Book of Mormon. According to witnesses of the translation, when Joseph looked into the instruments, the words of scripture appeared in English. One instrument, called in the Book of Mormon the “interpreters,” is better known to Latter-day Saints today as the “Urim and Thummim.” Joseph found the interpreters buried in the hill with the plates... "The other instrument, which Joseph Smith discovered in the ground years before he retrieved the gold plates, was a small oval stone, or “seer stone.”18 As a young man during the 1820s, Joseph Smith, like others in his day, used a seer stone to look for lost objects and buried treasure... "Apparently for convenience, Joseph often translated with the single seer stone rather than the two stones bound together to form the interpreters. These two instruments-the interpreters and the seer stone-were apparently interchangeable and worked in much the same way such that, in the course of time, Joseph Smith and his associates often used the term “Urim and Thummim” to refer to the single stone as well as the interpreters." In addition, LDS Church president Russell Nelson has affirmed the stone-in-the-hat method: "The details of this miraculous method of translation are still not fully known. Yet we do have a few precious insights. David Whitmer wrote: “Joseph Smith would put the seer stone into a hat, and put his face in the hat, drawing it closely around his face to exclude the light; and in the darkness the spiritual light would shine. A piece of something resembling parchment would appear, and on that appeared the writing. One character at a time would appear, and under it was the interpretation in English. Brother Joseph would read off the English to Oliver Cowdery, who was his principal scribe, and when it was written down and repeated to Brother Joseph to see if it was correct, then it would disappear, and another character with the interpretation would appear. Thus the Book of Mormon was translated by the gift and power of God, and not by any power of man.” (David Whitmer, An Address to All Believers in Christ, Richmond, Mo.: n.p., 1887, p. 12.) ---"A Treasured Testament," Ensign Magazine, July 1993. The Mormon apologetic org FAIR has also affirmed the stone-in-the-hat method: "Did Joseph Smith use the Nephite interpreters to translate? Or did he use his own seer stone? Joseph Smith used both the Nephite interpreters and the seer stone, and both were called "Urim and Thummim" "He also sometimes applied the term to other stones he possessed, called ‘seer stones’ because they aided him in receiving revelations as a seer. The Prophet received some early revelations through the use of these seer stones." ---FAIR LDS.org So, if you don't believe that Joseph Smith used the stone-in-the-hat method during the production of the BOM, you are in opposition to the LDS church, its leaders, and its primary scholars and apologists.
On the issues with Millenials... there's a lot of underlying factors. Many have never struggled with needs, they've never faced hardship. And they've been spoonfed socialism and immorality in schools. Then you also have them entertained to death. These things together they are led to believe they don't need religion. This is common in generational transfer of faith where people who have everything often don't see the need for god or religion. People who have had to struggle do.
No, the reason millennials are leaving the church is because they are learning the truth about Mormon history on the internet, and find that the truth is very different from what they were taught by the church. Another reason is the church's stance on social issues. Mormonism is no longer relevant in today's culture.
"Words of Joseph Smith" - by Ehat & Cook: All beings who have bodies have power over those who have not (pg 60) Joseph said that before foundation of the Earth in the Grand Counsel that the Spirits of all Men ware subject to opression & the express purpose of God in Giveing it a tabernicle was to arm it against the power of Darkness .(pg 62) God is Good & all his acts is for the benefit of inferior intelligences - God saw that those intelligences had Not power to Defend themselves against those that had a tabernacle therefore the Lord Calls them together in Counsel & agrees to form them tabernacles so that he might Gender the Spirit & the tabernacle together so as to create sympathy for their fellowman - for it is a Natural thing with those spirits that has the most power to bore down on those of Lesser ;power so we see the Devil is without a tabernacle & the Lord as set bound to all Spirits.(pg 68)
HI @@tvede1027FML : "...to act for themselves and not to be acted upon..." is in 2nd Nephi 2: 14 and 26. One place I found this principle intelligences coming up in a talk is: "A Personal Search for The Meaning of the Atonement" By W. Cleon Skousen, December of 1980. Almost all of Brother Skousen's talks are found on you-tube on a channel called "Light and Truth." This video name is "Meaning of the Atonement by Cleon...." It has a plain white thumbnail with black lettering: "CLEON SKOUSEN FAVORITE SPEECHES VOL 1 1 MEANING OF THE ATONEMENT." If you can find this video and begin at timestamp *34 :30* then you can hear a real nice presentation about your topic.
Hi@@pauline17ish "...to act for themselves and not to be acted upon..." is in 2nd Nephi 2: 14 and 26. One place I found this principle intelligences coming up in a talk is: "A Personal Search for The Meaning of the Atonement" By W. Cleon Skousen, December of 1980. Almost all of Brother Skousen's talks are found on you-tube on a channel called "Light and Truth." This video name is "Meaning of the Atonement by Cleon...." It has a plain white thumbnail with black lettering: "CLEON SKOUSEN FAVORITE SPEECHES VOL 1 1 MEANING OF THE ATONEMENT." If you can find this video and begin at timestamp 34 :30 then you can hear a real nice presentation about the topic.
I'm just a little in, and maybe they address it later, but didn't President Nelson in July of 1993 talk about the translation being through the rock in the hat, and didn't the church published a seer Stone a few years back in the ensign, and it seems like in the series of apologetic articles that the church put forth that they mentioned it being translated by The seer Stone also. Am I wrong about this?
What about the translation of the BOM essay released by the church? The church FREELY ADMITS that he used a stone in a hat. AND that he used that same stone in a hat to find buried treasure.
When I read the comments of apostates, like many of those under this video, it's hard for me to imagine how they could receive any mercy when they stand before the Lord, after having rejected the Restored Gospel (when so many have never even had a chance to embrace it) and ever merit anything beyond the Terrestrial Kingdom.
Because many of them are confused and under the influence of others and one of the great challenges is judging men by the desires of their hearts and not their actions alone. "Before the foundation of the Earth in the Grand Counsel... the Spirits of all Men were subject to oppression & the express purpose of God in giving them a tabernacle was to arm them against the power of Darkness." Words of Joseph Smith pg. 62 "God is good & all his acts are for the benefit of inferior intelligence - God saw that those intelligences had NOT power to defend themselves against those that had a tabernacle, therefor the Lord calls them together in counsel and agrees to form them tabernacles." Words of Joseph Smith pg. 68 "A man is saved no faster than he gets knowledge, for if he does not get knowledge, he will be brought into captivity by some evil power in the other word, as evil spirits will have more knowledge, and consequently more power than many men who are on the earth." History of the Church 4:588; discourse given on April 10, 1842
Duh, if someone no longer believes in Mormonism, they no longer believe in the "Terrestrial Kingdom" either. By the way, in case you didn't know, Joseph Smith plagiarized the concept of the three kingdoms of heaven from a Swedish theologian named Emmanuel Swedenborg. That's one reason why apostates no longer believe in Joseph Smith: he either stole all of his doctrine from others or just made them up. There was no "revelation from God" involved at all.
@@Veevslav1 Speaking of confused people: Seeing as how Hannah Stoddard still believes that Joseph Smith did not practice folk-magic in the 1820s, and did not use a "seer stone" to translate the golden plates---even though the LDS church has admitted that he did both---wouldn't you say that Hannah Stoddard is quite confused?
@@randyjordan5521 I would say that there are dishonest historians in the church.;) But then again, I have been studying and researching things so I know for a fact that there are dishonest historians in the church. Further I know it is something that God has allowed on purpose to try the people. At the end of the day, all I need to know is that God testified to me that Joseph Smith is a prophet of God and that the words of the Book of Mormon are true.
I appreciate your work. Transparency is a big thing for me. I struggle to trust an organization that has so many secrets. Now, if they just claimed to be a faith and not the only true church, my requirements relax greatly.
Hannah, you presented another excellent presentation re losing the millennials. There is no question the church leadership has neglected the human side of the prophet Joseph and other aspects of church history. Fortunately the church leadership is becoming a more transparent and balanced perspective. Your illustration regarding the Seer stone vs Urim & thumin. Quite frankly, the cult of placing Emma on a pedestal is setting people for a let down. Why not teach regarding Eliza R Snow who also was a faithful wife of the prophet Joseph. The Mormon Stories are infused with negative faith destroying narratives. Mormon stories are inaccurate narratives designed to destroy faith. You're on the right track Hannah and doing a fair and excellent job in research and presentation. Salient point that there is a movement to rewrite LDS history. It is an organized effort to undermine the underpinning foundation of the Latter Day Saint restorationist movement. For example, the book of Mormon is the most perfect work in explaining, illustrating the doctrine and tenets of the precepts of the atonement. No one should be taken back by the prophet Joseph youthful experience good , bad or indifferent. It is impossible to have a correct knowledge of every aspect of young Joseph's life. The measuring standard should be the fruits of brother Joseph teachings . Brother Brigham brought order, law to a wild frontier. Brigham was s great leader. Polygamy is a universal practice especially practiced in the east. In early, western Christianity polygamy was practiced. In fact, the evidence demonstrates that even the Holy Roman Emperor Charlagmnane practiced polygamy. I am a deep admirer of Eliza R Snow, a tremendous woman of intellect. Again you're in the light track, to allow these polygamous women to speak. One will find how refined, intellectual and dignified. Excellent, the critics have buried their voices for too long. I will have to agree that the church went through a period of a mechanistic corporate presentation. That should be awknowledged, but, the church leadership is returning to the ecclesiastical roots I am glad your guest awknowledged the genuis and magnificence of the prophet Joseph. Look, who was St. Augustine in his character,? There are many manifestations of character. Even if, you don't believe Joseph was not a prophet one will have to swknowledge him as a great philosopher, teacher and doctrinaire. Listen, Joseph cannot be taken off his pedestal because his teachings and character is beyond any legitimate inquiry. God bless you Hannah in your work. The prophet Joseph is the greatest teacher and prophet next to the Savior on many multidimensional perspectives. Let people read Josephs Kung Follet discourse. This discourse is one of the most beautiful tapestry of all times. The problem is that the skeptics, critics, and mockers confuse understanding and scholarship with unfiltered uncontrolled , unproductive criticism. It is true, brother Joseph was correct when he noted " no man knows his his history". Lovely Hannah, you're correct at different times and two different audience and according to need various aspects of the visions we're shared. This is not a contradiction but points of different emphasis at various times. Beautiful
There are very few of us living members left who still believe in polygamy, and The Book of Mormon completely, and the full divinity of the Restoration. You better believe that the spirit of Joseph and the early Saints are whispering to us to spread the truth today. Don't forget we are in the majority because the angels are standing beside us. "And it came to pass that ... the people began to forget those signs and wonders which they had heard, and began to be less and less astonished at a sign or a wonder from heaven, insomuch that they began to be hard in their hearts, and blind in their minds, and began to disbelieve all which they had heard and seen- Imagining up some vain thing in their hearts, that it was wrought by men and by the power of the devil, to lead away and deceive the hearts of the people; and thus did Satan get possession of the hearts of the people again, insomuch that he did blind their eyes and lead them away to believe that the doctrine of Christ was a foolish and a vain thing." 3 Nephi 2:1-2
You should also know that the Church quotes Arrington and Bushman on history articles on their official website. Arrington and Bushman are legit scholars who love the Church. The Stoddards want a very unrealistic history.
I see a lot of anti on here in the comments, let me just say that I have personally seen Jesus the Christ and I have a knowledge of him and the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints IS HIS CHURCH. Argue all you want but you have first hand witness and testimony of the truth. In the name of Jesus Christ, amen.
Sure you do. I have no doubt that you believe all of that. None whatsoever. And no marvel, for Satan himself is transformed into an angel of light. (2 Corinthians 11:14) But -- are you sure you're at the right "church" ? I thought the Watchtower folks are Jehovah's Witness -- another equally-fine counterfeit christianity like LDS.
@@sagesaith6354 Yes Satan can appear as an Angel of light and can be seen by the natural man but God the Father and Jesus Christ can not be seen by the natural man, they have to be changed by the Holy Spirit to endure their presence. Satan is a spirit and has no body, Jesus Christ ascended to his Father with his resurrected body, it can be felt where no one can physically touch a spirit. An Angel also appears as an Angel of light. It takes discernment from the holy spirit to know the difference, The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints IS THE ONLY CHURCH ON THE FACE OF THE EARTH THAT BEARS HIS NAME, because it is his church that has been restored. It is organized the exact same way that Jesus organized his church while he was alive.
@@sagesaith6354 You people who leave the church have the same thing in common, you just can't leave it alone. Just like Satan has done. I advise you to go your own way, no one here wants to hear anything you say unless you are into people constantly reminding you of the mistakes you have made.
Isn’t interesting that when you introduce a person you don’t want others to believe you tell all the ugly negative things you can about them to start the story.
@@stelladavis7832 Stalin = Leonard Arrington who was railroaded out of the inside circle of the church for the evil act of including the truth and events that aren’t faith promoting. It wasn’t that he was writing false thugs, he would have been excommunicated for that. He was just a better human than the brethren who wanted to whitewash the history. It’s documented truth, both the things he wanted to write and that the brethren said that because all truth isn’t necessary. Not firs it need ti be published. Why would it be harmful? Because intelligent, honest, sincere active members aren’t willing to tell the emperor he has no clothes on.
@@Sayheybrother8 Yep, you have this strange pushback among people in the JS Foundation who want the whitewash history and get uncomfortable when their black and white history has a lot of grey. Honestly, Hannah and her lot aren't historians they are propagandists
@@stelladavis7832 Are you comparing those that have a more critical/objective view of Mormonism with Stalin? If not, then you missed the point. "Poisoning the well Poisoning the well is a type of informal fallacy where adverse information about a target is preemptively presented to an audience, with the intention of discrediting or ridiculing something that the target person is about to say." From Wikipedia
I asked Dan Peterson about the Stoddards and he seemed dismissive of your group. Would be interesting how you deal with the Book of Abraham, The scholars are now coming down on the catalyst theory like Royal Skousen..
This is Denver Snuffer levels of worship of Joseph Smith. The mental gymnastics required to ignore the mountains of contemporaneous evidence showing Joseph Smith’s duplicitous and manipulative ways are impossible to ignore.
Hannah, if the restoration of the church was true and it was the most important thing to happen in history since Christ lived it wouldn’t have anything to do with Joseph Smith but it would be about the atonement of Jesus Christ. The goal of the church fathers was to testify of Christ not to create a pathway that includes a scavenger hunt of ordinances and works to get to heaven. Sorry and I understand your passion because I had it too. The day I felt the same passion you’ve expressed here for the truthfulness of the infinite atonement there was no twisted path of research or revelation that had to interpreted with the right lens. It’s just true! Christ lives and His gospel is true and it is the only way we can return to Christ. Can you imagine a loving Heavenly Father giving us His truth in the most convoluted and confusing way as this?
Haven’t there always been prophets to direct people toward Christ? The Restoration gave us so many things that point us to the God of love, consistent doctrine that enables wholehearted worship, it clears up what philosophies of people have obscured by willfully asserting God is primarily about substance and power. Love can heal, guide, and transform the world, forces of substance and power can’t subdue the heart or transform it.
God has always used his prophets and they have always been treated like crap. Joseph and his family were never hated until he told of his vision. Then hate descended upon them. Tells me all I need to know.
At the beginning Hanna dismisses the use of the seer stone. I do not know how that is possible. The only tool in existence relating to the translation of the BOM is the seer stone at church headquarters . No plates of gold, no ancient interpreters, no urim and thummim. Simply a rock. A rock that Joseph did use to search for buried treasure. The rock is the symbol of the founding and Joseph Smiths magic or occult world view. Gosple topic essay on translation method acknowledges the use of seer stone and JS treasure seeking as a youth. Hannah is promoting a narrative that church leaders are walking away from. Dieter Uckdorf, Brad Wilcox and President Nelson have all demonstrated how to block out light (like the glare on an iPhone) so the magic words could be seen on the rock. I hear so many people promoting faith and being faithful and protecting ones faith. Faith is a placeholder for knowledge. We are actually searching for knowledge on our lives journey. It makes no sense to hide problematic history and promote only the most faith promoting stories from history. The church is reaping the consequences of telling an untrue narrative for all these years. We hear of faithful history that is promoted by Jeffrey R Holland when he admonishes CES employees and we hear of progressive history when it approaches a more realistic representation of actual events. Jeffrey R Holland recently told a faith promoting story that he had to retract because it was untrue. President Nelson has recounted his fiery death spiral in an airplane that is not accurate. President Nelson also described an event at a stake conference that he had to pull from his book because the family involved was uncomfortable about the telling of events that were inaccurate. How many other events in Mormon history have been embellished in order to promote the religion at the expense of truth? Either polygamy was from god or it was not. D&C describes the method of practice or it does not. Priesthood and temple ban of black members was from god or it was not. Adam God was introduced to the church by Brigham Young, it was either correct doctrine or it was not. Withholding baptisms and other ordinances from children of LGBTQ parents was either revelation from God as stated by RMN, or it was not. Reinstating baptism and ordinances to children of LGBTQ parents was either a revelation from God as stated by RMN or it was not. It seems God himself is fine either way because revelation was sighted and the moving cause for the change and then the complete 180. I personally do not think the one true church would need to be propped up by a false narrative or apologists or have a repository where history is locked up. Sadly the LDS church does both. Joseph Smiths God evolved over his life time. Brigham Young created a very different God from JS. The current LDS church is molding a modern version of doctrine and causing the outdated GOD to conform to their telling of it. The one thing the church has going for it that Burney Madoff did not is that promised eternal blessing only come after you die.
Well stated. The mind-boggling thing is that all of the items you listed are true and readily available for the reading, but there are still millions of people who still believe that Mormonism is true. As I read your points, I thought of how many of those claims are like those of Paul H. Dunn, who was exposed as a complete fraud---and yet was viewed as a trusted, respected Mormon general authority for decades.
**Luke 16** 13 No [Latter-day Saint] can serve two masters: for either he will hate the one, and love the other; or else he will hold to the one, and despise the other. Ye cannot serve God and mammon [economic exchange of the world] 14 And the [priesrcrafter] also, who were covetous, heard all these things: and they derided him [Jesus]. 15 And he said unto them [Saints of God],*** Ye are they who justify yourselves before men; but God knoweth your hearts; for that which is highly esteemed among men is an abomination in the sight of God. *** 16 👉 And they said unto him, ***We have the law and the prophets***; but as for this man, we will not receive him to be our ruler; for he maketh himself to be a judge over us. 👈 17 Then said Jesus unto them, The law and the prophets testify of me; yea, and all the prophets who have written, even [Joseph Smith], have foretold of these days. 18 Since that time, the kingdom of God is preached, and every man who seeketh truth presseth into it. 19 And it is easier for heaven and earth to pass, than for one tittle of the law to fail. 20 And why teach ye the law [of the consecration], and deny that which is written, and condeem [the humble follower of Christ] whom the Father hath sent to [teach] the law, that ye might all be redeemed? 21 O [foolish LDS priestcrafters]! for you have said in your hearts, There is no God. And you pervert the right way; and the kingdom of heaven suffereth violence of you; and you persecute the meek; and in your violence you seek to destroy the kingdom; and ye [tares], take the children of the kingdom by force. Woe unto you, ye adulterers
People have been excommunicated for questioning the material so you put emphasis on excommunication as if it’s a valid reason to determine a motive that’s intelligent Hannah ! Rethink it!
Exactly so. Ditto the ad hominem attack against Arrington. History is fleshed out as documents are discovered. "The Witnesses" movie shows Martin Harris replacing the seer stone with a similar rock one day as Joseph was translating. See the whole series of short Interpreter videos on youtube... All of us who love the restored church of Christ continue to learn additional details. "We believe all that God has revealed, all that he does now reveal, and we believe that he will yet reveal many great and important things pertaining to the kingdom of God." I expect to continue learning -- and even to find out that my first impressions were incomplete or even wrong. I expect that Hannah will continue learning as well...
@@martyandsusanzmolek5046 yes, her take on Brother Arrington is brutal. I guess I’m not surprised because that is how fundamentalist believers who can’t handle the truth treat presenters of reality. They don’t like the reality then it’s not the rock in the hat or the hidden wives that are the issue it’s whoever is exposing those truths. That way you don’t have to deal with the very valid issues.
@@Sayheybrother8 you’re failing to see your own brutal judgments of her. It’s hypocritical. The same with your statements of bias. Your lens is your lens and your bias is your personal bias (no one can rid personal lens or personal bias). None of you have disproven anything she’s said. Just take your own personal truth and leave her alone. Spend time somewhere else. Dissenters seriously can’t leave the church alone.
@@No.Coincidences im responding to her judgement of Brother Bushman’s and anyone else who follows the evidence. Also, why would you call someone a dissenter who follows the evidence rather than a pre internet narrative that has been exposed as a faithful apologetic history?
Just found out you’re slandering a man who has received the whole of the gospel ordinances. Sorry to burst your bubble but that’s not going to happen to Leonard Arrington if he’s an apostate.
