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you guys nailed it perfectly- lds church immature belief of having eternal slaves and lds members are allowed to talk smack but non believers are to keep quiet. smh
I prayed for him once and then I asked my mom why Satan can't ever get a second change. My mom said oh he's an Angel so he made his choice and he betrayed god. As a kid it didn't sit right with me because I was told that god was forgiving and could forgive everyone. Wouldn't it be better to forgive Satan and possibly come to an agreement? But then I was like he's evil so Satan deserves it.
Jesus didn't forgive the FAIRisees, Lawyers, Sadducees and Zealots either, so there! Oh, and slavery was cool as long as they did not die for a couple days after obedience-beatings.... He ragged on FAIRisees endlessly. Follow Him!
Y'all are so articulate. Loved this. When I was 8, I cried myself to sleep for months because I believed I was going to hell. My sins? Saying the F word and wanting to go to my friend's non-Mormon church. My curiosity about other religions was from the devil and I felt I had "denied the Holy Ghost" just by wanting to go to a different church. That poor 8 year old girl!!!! It was traumatic to say the least and a big reason for my leaving the church as an adult. The guilt and the shame taught in the church is outrageous. And constantly questioning my thoughts ("get out of my head, Satan!") was fucking exhausting. Not only have I been happier since leaving, my emotional intelligence and critical thinking skills have improved by bloody miles.
My last girls camp at 17 (a year after I stopped believing but hadn’t told any family or church friends yet) we went canoeing one day in the lake and the leaders of the camp we were staying at made us all join in a group prayer beforehand so that satan wouldn’t have control over the lake and drown us all. My friend and I laughed during the prayer and we got in trouble :/ lmao
I loved your comment on spirituality. My philosophy is that religion is for people who are afraid of going to Hell and spirituality is for those of us who have already been there.
Satan is an excuse religious people use to explain why they act shitty..."the Devil made me do it". I always wondered if God is so freaking awesome and powerful, why would 1/3 of the "Heavenly Host" rebel against him, Satan especially? They had to know that they couldn't beat God, but they rebelled anyway. Maybe God isn't so freaking awesome after all. I think the OT testifies to what a dick he can be. Luckily he is a fictional character as is Satan.
Do you invest the same amount of time to debunk a fictional Santa Claus? Read Romans 1 and try to rationalize how it doesn’t apply to your rebellion against God.
@@margaritam.9118 So God is like a Mafia boss? God is still doing the dirty work only through a proxy. In our world, you will go to jail for hiring a hit man because you are guilty of the crime. Basically God then is responsible for all the evil done by Satan. Did you ever stop to think about just how silly this stuff is?
@@kacylay528 I really don't care what the bible says. How can I possibly rebel against a fictional character? You God is as made up as Santa Claus. Are you LDS?
Sam Huff Formal LDS, now evangelical Christian. You rebel by pretending like He doesn’t exist yet you feel the need to do so anyways. I would wager that every other fictional person ever created doesn’t muster your attention like God does, because he is written on your heart and you can’t get away from that.
Im church if england and only slightly interested on mormons since yew lot send so many shall we ay , less than fully taught gentle folk up to the uk, welcome but not other bibles than the main one, a skitzo god that puts his revelation in more than one , makes no sense to me times that 66 books takes multiple ages to get through. www.thekingsbible.com I would like to quickly state mormonism doesnt hurt me but as a man, ye lot are weird, does the devil quothe own water, err no, gods a creative god and even owns satan at this point. heck in britain we have saints always slaying it , margaret, george and every bugger else. in exegesis , if he was linked to water , id say tht darkly isiah could be done, pull water away from good , may be. ... isaiah therefore with joy shall ye draw the water out of the wells of salvation... Luke 7:44 And he turned to the woman, and said unto Simon, Seest thou this woman? I entered into thine house, thou gavest me no water for my feet: but she hath washed my feet with tears, and wiped them with the hairs of her head in our book j.c walks on water, that shows superiority, and if he rewards a weirdo woman for cleaning his feet in luke... her satan water tears and greesey hair could at least be seen as more respecting that the wall fly diciples. but not some type of mormon ezster egg. i love pure scripture
I think my empathy for Satan was one of the things that lead me out. And also in seminary this kid was talking about their friend who committed suicide and the teacher was like "what are you grateful for in this experience?" And that really rubbed me the wrong way. My empathy is probably the main thing that got me out and then I learned critical thinking and now I don't have the "what if I'm wrong" thing anymore
I was seeking comfort once and a sister said, the bright side is one day you'll know the best thing to say to someone going through what you are now. I just wanted her to tell me it would be okay, that I could rebuild a chosen family, anything except "think of the other people your hurt might help"
“Your own personal redemption of satan is your own personal redemption.” Tanner you nailed that!! A little over a year ago, I went to the temple (on the mission) and felt so much sorrow and compassion for satan. My life has changed drastically from that moment and it caused me to think of him as a brother (I now acknowledge the lack of his existence). Thank you thank you for that comment!!
I'm not Mormon, used to be evangelical, but never heard anything about Lucifer and water. I'm not sure where LDS gets that idea since it wasn't in the Bible.
One way to actually reduce sex trafficking is to decriminalize consensual sex work and protect workers! But of course none of these people that condemn sex trafficking can even start to have that conversation.
Sex trafficking has increased in areas where it's been decriminalized. You're making it easier for them to do it. The best thing to do is implement the Nordic Model and make the Johns and pimps the criminals, NOT the ones being prostituted.
i used to feel so bad for satan as a kid and then used to get mega conflicted cause i was like wait is that just satan getting to me? oh no im gonna slip away from my faith but at the same time i was being taught forgiveness and empathy and i was just like ??? what do you want me to do!?
I'm Jewish and the idea of Satan as "the enemy" and "the king of lies" has never made sense to me. Why is an all powerful God letting a brat who spoils all of His plans run amok on Earth? In Hebrew, Satan just means "the accuser" and is used as more of a foil device in stories such as Job. I'm pretty religious and trust me I have no feelings toward Satan at all, much less as an equally powerful anti-God.
Satan honestly isn't that biblical either, until you get past the time the last books were written. Like you said it's just meant to be a foil, and most *modern* ideas of Satan come from Paradise Lost aka Christan fanfiction
I found it so strange as a Mormon teen that other Mormons and Christianity in general didn’t respect peoples’ agency. I remember being taught that agency was a gift of God. How then could you judge another so harshly when, according to your theology, we all have the same exact agency. If we fought so hard in heaven to have this choice, shouldn’t we celebrate all the different choices we can make in life? You’d think that believing agency was God’s gift would make you vastly more empathetic. I’m an atheist now and have a different view on choice now of course but I remember thinking this as a Mormon teen.
Makay, you totally nailed it. We were taught how wonderful it is to have freedom of choice, but then you realize that 95% of the choices are already made for you if you do what you should to stay on the straight and narrow path. This oddly seems A LOT more like Satan's plan, but I guess you do get that 5%.
Myles Markson thank you! So true ha! They sure do love their agency until they have to actually use it! I made a comment on a Jimmy Snow video the other day when I realized that probably a part of the reason TBM are so scared of exmos comes down to the fact that they’re scared of making choices bc they either have to be “good or bad” and there’s so much fear around making the wrong ones. Us exmos must seem like we’re making choices willy nilly. So scary! 🤣
The mental health being linked to making religious ideations worse is close to home for me. My mom went undiagnosed with Bipolar with schizophrenic tendencies for most of her life. It wasn't until the last couple years of her life that we knew and that explained so much of my childhood honestly. I vividly remember her telling me that she saw a demon in our basement (where we slept) and that it threw her up against the wall. I was 11. there were many incidents that make more sense now knowing she was mentally ill. Sadly, it was too late and she ended up passing away a few months ago from complications from early onset Alzheimer's. I wish mental heath wasn't such a taboo topic. I truly believe that is the biggest reason why she got Alzheimer's so young..
Have y'all read "Mormonism and White Supremacy: American Religion and the Problem of Racial Innocence" by Joanna Brooks yet?? It's very good. Would really love to see you discuss it in depth.
@@akiadima3814 it was something that light can't exist without dark, satan is apparently yah only unredeemable person and like what if he didn't want to be condemned. I'm like ninety-three percent sure the kid is going to grow out of his faith.
Somebody needs to write a musical pointing out how Satan and gos are in on it together playing us all and Satan is getting a massive kickback somehow because he saved gods ass by being the bad guy. So much potential for mockery of religious gobbledygook and would be so funny.
I understand why you talk about this Mormon doctrine so much, and why it is upsetting to you. I have studied the religion because I have 2 siblings who were baptized lds as adults. Both of them older than I , one even becoming a bishop, I heard an earful from them. Giving me the 'lessons' asking me to pray blah blah blah. Since age 14 I spent many years questioning what was the truth. It is easy to believe what one is told from missionaries and well meaning mormons. But now I feel it's a trick, the idea of 'milk before meat'. I don't believe there would be many mormons if people were given the full truth about all the church's beliefs. It's like a grooming of sorts, trickery and mind games to bait people with the good stuff like families are forever. Then when you are 'stuck' in a way, you learn there are many gods, headed to godhood, polygamy everlasting covenant, etc etc. Mind control really. I couldn't just say I believed in JS and the church, until I found out about everything first. Even then it was so seductive the idea that someone or some doctrine had all the answers and everyone SO NICE and producing 'good fruit', all about family community. That is what most people want is a place to belong. Even after 40 years I still think, wouldn't it be nice to belong to a group that shares same creed and understanding of life? But I've seen the dark side of lds, the pride, judgmental vainity of being lds, and 'worthy'. The fact that it is hypocrisy and sorrow that comes from a community so bent on self righteousness, it's passive aggressive nature so sublime. Even the mind control is so powerful that many mormons won't look at the past of the church and JS with critical thinking. So yes I find your anger and heartbreak with these doctrines completely understandable. I never joined the church and I'm even frustrated every time I try to explain the lds nonsense I've learned over the years. People are baffled at the anger that rises in me about the subject. I love hearing your perspective. I'm proud of you for being so brave to escape, considering you were facing loss (and "outer darkness"😏). Keep up the good work
I’ve always kinda felt bad for Satan, why is he the only one who isn’t forgiven? When his plan would have guaranteed everyone got back to God. Like he was just trying to help 😂 also like they always say someone had to take that role...so like how is that fair
@@makeitstopnow well in church of england you can ask anything, but usually hard questions such as did judus , if he is sorry get to heaven , even after the biggest sin ... 1. it does have only 1 unforgivable sin there, ye didnt do it, 2. judas was a diciple, if god is omnipotent or omnicient, he can see everything coming... well... God = jesus christ , could have not befriended him and let him stay on a farm somewhere. 3. judas needed to betray god , and had tretchery armour , doing bad to do good, god forbid. the good part getting god onto a cross in a way that hits the mark of various old testement prophetic things about being betrayed ~ after studying judas, then we can move on to s. well somehow any fallen angel , devilette or lesser bad , can come into repentance , i didnt find anywhere that anything but s. can't change alliegance. a turncoat devil in the eternal kingdom could be quite usefull , there was a great series ~omen~ , it was on british television & it is goods and bads but were not supposed to say it. I got baptised anyway... nothing else matters. repent repent repent =) can s. get saved, yes , in method but a) god wont allow it, he is a hard unforgiving god on that and is the lord of vengeance b) the devil may have been a special case that got a one time only chance in mediation but rebelled anyway, to be led in this way is the leaders at fault... i talked about an unforgiveable sin... Mat 12:32 And whosoever speaketh a word against the Son of man, it shall be forgiven him: but whosoever speaketh against the Holy Ghost, it shall not be forgiven him, neither in this world, neither in the world to come. Mark 3:29 But he that shall blaspheme against the Holy Ghost hath never forgiveness, but is in danger of eternal damnation: Luke 12:10 And whosoever shall speak a word against the Son of man, it shall be forgiven him: but unto him that blasphemeth against the Holy Ghost it shall not be forgiven. www.thekingsbible.com/Search/SearchResults if your clever , you can see ww2 shewing out that, in judgement , its only the top brass, at the high trail , they get jailed or killed, they; the conclusion being that everyone in the war gets forgiven , with a bit of effort but we can cut the head off the snake so to speeck
In the LDS church they believe Satans plan would mean everyones choices would have been made for them and he wanted all the glory for himself and taking away peoples agency.. Id like to see a source of who says he needed to take that role?
Mary E I’m not sure on a source, because I was a convert to the church for 6 years and was never super into doctrine. I think someone just mentioned it in a class once, could have been made up lol.
If Satan controls the waters... it feels like he should control trampolines too. But I doubt many missionaries have tried trampolining while on their mission. lol
I served in Utah and we could get together with any other missionary from the mission on our P day. So a bunch of us went to this place with a load of trampolines. Why is Satan involved with all the carefree, fun stuff?
In an old edition of the missionary handbook (1930s, I think), there was a passage about how missionaries "ought not swim" for Satan-related reasons, complete with a quotation from an old-school general authority. Can't remember who, though.
Been having a rough couple days, and you guys brighten my mood every time you upload. Thanks for helping out a random pimo teen that you dont even know. Means a lot yall
In Mormonism angels are just dead people. Michael is actually Adam and the angel who supposedly told Joseph Smith about the gold plates was a prophet in the Book of Mormon
I love this topic. When I was in the church, I used to be scared when I had nightmares or scary thoughts (for example a dream of my mom dying) that I would be giving satan ideas of what trials to give me. I genuinely believed that thinking of something terrible would make it happen. I have bipolar disorder so I get a lot of scary intrusive thoughts. This was one of the most damaging teachings to me.
ave satana 🤘 I’m meditating on a different tenet of satanism each day this week. Today’s is: One’s body is inviolable, subject to one’s own will alone. stay strong out there, friends, and don’t let anyone try to justify using or changing your body against your will for any means.
@@mylesmarkson1686 Человек который поклоняеться тьме и демонам пойдёт к ним . Ад замкнут на себя , есть только Кали и Шива . Человек должен стремиться обрести чистое видение мира , недвойственную природу Абсолюта и выйти в Нирвану .
@@kestutisaliukonis8543 Sorry Kestutis, but I'm not understanding any of that. I'm sure it was great though. By the way, it's the lyrics to "Ave Satani" from the movie "The Omen". It's a great tune. You should definitely check it out, my bruthah!
Went to a mormon funeral of my young cousin.. they were saying to rejoice that she is in a better place now and stuff.. it just made me so angry and sad.
Omg I'm so glad y'all just posted this. My TBM sister attacked me earlier this week because I said I didn't believe in Satan. She is a qanon follower so she thinks these evil things can only happen BECAUSE of Satan. I tried explaining myself, but it was difficult. Thank you for this.
I'm a Luciferian/Satanist and I've never felt more liberated. It really irritates me when people claim all the bad things in the world are due to the Satanists and Luciferians. Yet, so many crimes are committed by religious people. 🤦
when i was 15 and realized the true power of the human brain and consciousness, that my brain wasn’t just a battle between satan and god, that was one of the last straws that made me officially cut ties with the church.
ahhh yes the classic "Satan knows you and knows how to tempt you and will lead you carefully away step by step". it's in my patriarchal blessing and it's been the #1 thing said to me by my family since I've left.
Yes! This is some of the most concentrated Mormon juice I’ve had in the past 2 years. My “personal relationship with Satan” was a major theme of my faith crisis 10 years ago...when even after I had practically lost faith in God, Jesus, and prophets,... I still had a Satan hang up. IMO evil is right there with death as the duo that compels “belief”.
We didn’t talk about Satan (or Lucifer) alot in church, perhaps they were afraid to speak of him maybe thinking that would give him power over them. Just like He-who-must-not-be-named in HP 😂 I was taught that I would invite Satan into my home if I watched horror movies (wich I have always loved) so I was really scared of that. He controls the water?That’s so fucking bizarre thinking how all of us used to believe in their deranged teachings just because we were raised in it. Still to this day I can’t believe it took me so long to get out, I will never get those years back 👿
I don't understand why they would say that Satan has a connection to water. When Christ calmed the storm in front of his disciples in one gospel story, they said "even the wind and the sea obey him"! Wouldn't that mean that Christ, not Lucifer, has power over water? Also, baptism is in water, Christ walked on water, etc.
This was so insightful. You put into clear precise words, the scrabbling thoughts that plague my brain everyday. You two, your work is so extremely important in the post-cult community. Loved this video!!!
"You allow these people to be brought up in the worst possible way, and systematically corrupted from their earliest years. Finally, when they grow up and commit the crimes that they were obviously destined to commit, ever since they were children, you start punishing them. In other words, you create thieves, and then punish them for stealing!"-- Thomas More. It's really changed how I think about things like sex trafficking, where we tend to treat symptoms rather than find the root cause of the problem.
YES! Such a good quote, thanks for sharing! If you haven’t listened to the “You’re Wrong About” podcast it’s is AMAZING and they have a really good episode on human trafficking!
Milton's "Paradise Lost" is my favorite interpretation of the Satan figure in mythology (I consider Mormonism and Christianity mythology.) While still evil, he is courageous and has heroic qualities. A far more compelling character than the boogie man, mustache twirling cartoon character of a villain in Christianity/Mormonism. Granted, the Satan figure just seems to be an evolution and extension of the Zoroastrianism version that predates him, Angra Mainyu/Ahriman (With God being Ahura Mazda.)
acronen I was going to mention Bulgakov’s Master and Margarita (I was named after the character), but you said you don’t like “cartoonish” depictions of Satan 😂
The Up Next video suggested by YT after watching yours? "Joseph Smith: The Prophet of the Restoration" ?!? Your Satan video clearly broke the algorithm.
I never had a clear image of Satan growing up. We barely talked about that in church. We did discuss the paradox of God being the creator of all things but supposedly not of evil. But we were also taught that "the original sin" was a good thing because it gave humans freedom of decision. I'm glad I grew up in a progressive church where it was all centered around love, forgiveness and all that.
Can I just say that your videos give me life. It's almost been a year since I officially left the church and these videos really help me put things into perspective. Plus, you make me laugh! :D Love you guys, keep up the good work!
Gosh, this video is making me look back on how much the fear of eternal damnation was instilled unto me growing. I don't come from Mormonism but I feel the pain. People often say "at least you a confession booth. It's like a get out of jail, free card." It isn't because in Roman Catholicism you have purgatory where even after all the trips to the booth God will supposedly weigh how grave of a sinner you were. Religious guilt is the worse and really fucked with my OCD. I wish people so much luck trying to leave their various religions that cause so much pain.
Reminded me of the Song by Zeal & Ardor: He gon' forgive my sin Devil is kind He promise many things Devil is fine I can't do him no wrong Devil is kind
The alphabet versus the goddess had me thinking about the polytheistic explanations for why God of the Old Testament was so vengeful but also so loving: they were different gods. It follows the literacy cycles of human civilization and gives a hypothesis for why the dark ages were more female focused. And we are headed back to a visual society so the feminine is beginning to be worshipped again. It is an interesting idea.
Wow what timing. I was just watching taletell on Satan in JW he brought up that in the bible that it doesnt actually say that satan is the serpent but that that is how most religions interpret it. Did Joseph Smith change this in the JST? Anyway as an exmo I am so happy you all keep making exmo videos. It has really helped me personally with my transition.
I love this so much!!!❤❤❤ I actually am pretty traumatized from being terrified of satan and demons as a child. I had alot of nightmares and hallucinations relating to it especially in relationship to the fact that I was bi/pansexual and I had alot of guilt about it. Horrible horrible experiences that I thought were because by being bi/pan I was letting satan in and he was gonna get me and drag me to hell. (This going back to a very young age which was made even worse because when I was under the age of 8 I thought I was inherently evil because children under 8 were supposed to be innocent and not sin and be safe from satan but I was aware of my bisexuality as a "bad thing" and was having these experiences as young as 6) Anyway... super messed up and traumatizing. Taught me to believe horrible horrible things about myself. And it has been so much work to sort through all of it.
I used to imagine Lucifer like Loki from the first Thor movie in the Marvel Cinematic Universe when I still believed the church. He just wanted to make his father proud, but doing so in the wrong/misguided way. I brought that up to my church leaders, and was shot down, almost immediately. Then my parents heard and had this huge misunderstanding. All that I was trying to do was rationalize why Lucifer would do what he was doing. Maybe I just like stories where both sides believe they're in the right and the lines between good and evil are blurred. Or maybe the church doesn't want us thinking that way. Recently, I've noticed my Bishop get uneasy whenever I mention my favorite stories that blur the lines, almost as if I'm talking borderline heresy. (Also yes, I'm barely under mission age, still forced into the church.)
So I don’t think this was mentioned in the video but during the War in Heaven, Satan also took with him 1/3 of the hosts of heaven. Meaning God allowed 1/3 of his children to be damned because they wanted to go along with Satan’s plan, while everyone else gets a chance to live on the earth and earn eternal salvation. Teachers in church used to focus on “you are already choosing the right because in heaven you chose God’s plan so you are already better than the fallen 1/3” always didn’t sit right with me..
And why would 33% willingly choose the wrong path anyway? "Sorry God, I know you're in charge, and I'm probably gonna regret this, but Satan's plan is just so tempting!"
I had never heard about Satan controlling water. I asked my partner about it and he pretty much was saying what you all were saying! I always had empathy for Satan, even as a child bc I didn't think it was fair how he was treated and the temple solidified that for me when I went on a mission. I decided that I never wanted to follow a god who was that cruel anyways... good thing they're all fictional. And if they're not, then Satan, I'm on your side 😂😂
Love your videos. They always comfort me lol as somebody who grew up Mormon from birth and am not mormon anymore, I love seeing your videos affirm what I feel
I want to thank you two for having these conversations and making it so got damn simple. For as much push back as you may receive, there’s ten times as much expansion and awareness being spread. Thank you. 🤘🏼
You need to read the reason why Smith said the water sucks and Satan controls it, it's a classic Joseph Smith hated it so everyone else has to suffer type story: According to Ezra Booth, a convert/ missionary/ later apostate and who was travelling with Smith at the time the "revelation" was given told this account of how Smith hated canoeing on the river: Booth describes the trip home to Kirtland from Missouri in letter seven of his letters about Mormonism. He states that Smith, Rigdon, and Cowdery initially liked the idea to float down the Missouri River from Independence to St. Louis. Cover ground quicker and go on to the Ohio River at Cairo, Illinois. From there they could get tickets on a steamboat to travel upwards along the Ohio River to Wellsville, Ohio (near Pittsburgh.) And from there, they could walk the final distance to Kirtland, which was less than 100 miles. That is what Booth and the others did. However, the leaders themselves, Like Smith, sucked in the early part of the boating journey due to rough waters on the Missouri. Headed by Smith, they bailed on the boating idea before reaching St. Louis. The three leaders, Smith, Rigdon and Cowdery, left the main body, after declaring Satan owns the water, and Smith and the other two leaders went home on an expensive hired stagecoach. Both groups arrived back at Kirtland within a day or two of each other. One traveled in luxury for the time and the other group got wet paddling the lakes. So we have a very detailed description from Booth vs the vague and odd description given by the church, on the part of W. Phelps, who had seen this vision of Satan riding the waters, and so yeah Water is evil because Smith sanctioned the vision by Phelps, even though, admittedly, none of the leaders saw it but could hear it? But reading D&C 61, it's plain to see that Smith sucked at boating, spent more money to take a carriage home and tries to explain this cost by claiming the water is cursed, and he's the leader. Awesome. Some choice passages from D&C 61: 3 But verily I say unto you, that it is not needful for this whole company of mine elders to be moving swiftly upon the waters, whilst the inhabitants on either side are perishing in unbelief. (conveniently Smith gets a pass from having to get wet). 5 For I, the Lord, have decreed in mine anger many destructions upon the waters; yea, and especially upon these waters. 6 Nevertheless, all flesh is in mine hand, and he that is faithful among you shall not perish by the waters. (So if anyone dies boating then they were hiding their evil ways, so it's like a "faithful" or die test). 23 And now, concerning my servants, Sidney Rigdon, Joseph Smith, Jun., and Oliver Cowdery, let them come not again upon the waters, save it be upon the canal, while journeying unto their homes; or in other words they shall not come upon the waters to journey, save upon the canal (so they can travel upon the water if they are using it to travel home but just not while doing long distances or for missionary work). 24 Behold, I, the Lord, have appointed a way for the journeying of my saints; and behold, this is the way-that after they leave the canal they shall journey by land, inasmuch as they are commanded to journey and go up unto the land of Zion; (Yeah because getting wet sucks, and travelling by stagecoach is better).
A college professor of mine taught us about the Manichaeism, a religion that spread throughout the world between the 3rd and 7th centuries. Because of Manichaeans, the idea of a cosmic ‘good vs evil’ began and spread. My prof believed that “good vs evil” directly contradicts “an omnipotent god,” and he implied that people absorbed the “good vs evil” worldview because it’s popular/attractive. It probably also helps fuel that constant internal “battle” and victimhood mentality…
Oh also, my prof taught that the word “Satan” comes from “ha’satan” or “accuser” in Hebrew. That’s why I think Satan was intended to be a ‘conscience’ type figure, more matronly than coercive, sent from God to remind the Hebrews to do the right thing. I see the Bible as many different stories from different people hundreds of years apart, so I personally don’t think the Serpent in the garden of Eden was supposed to be the same as Satan or the same as Lucifer. In my mind, the ties between them is just biblical fanfiction.
My main catalyst for leaving the church was realizing that I had this really unhealthy relationship with God. I would (and did) deny and destroy parts of myself in order to avoid loosing him, because in my brain that was the worst thing possible and any part of myself that might "lure" me away from him must be denied. Figuring out what I had done for my "god" and seeing how toxic that "relationship" (really just a mindset) was made me step back from the church and my upbringing and start looking at my experience of the world.
Sam I relate to you hard. When I was young I was very law and order, and thrived in structure. I recently have been dealing with my childhood trauma and had never related my trauma to feeling secure in a structured environment but it makes a lot of sense. Thanks for you doing your videos, I get a lot out of them 💕
I somehow got the nickname of Jesus from one of my friends, he is now confused about why his friend, who he jokes is the new reincarnation of Jesus, is fighting for Black Lives Matter. Bummer how the propaganda machine works but I still feel honored to carry that nickname and truly try to practice what the real Jesus would do - flipping tables in Temples and fighting Pharisees for the liberation of all.
So none of us would have freedom of choice...like...ever? I don't know what that would even look like. Would we all be a bunch of zombies like in The Invasion of the Body Snatchers doing EXACTLY the same thing as everyone else, and if someone dared to do something different, everybody else would point and holler? And then that person would be forced to fall back in line? And what would be the point? So we all make it to The Celestial Kingdom. If this was really the plan that Satan pitched, I would be like "Why don't we all just skip the middle-man (earth) and go straight to Heaven?" Oh well R-Wheeler, maybe I'm just not getting it...
Desert religions (like the Abrahamic ones) tend to be black and white. If you're not for me, you are against me. Every other clime tend to have religions that are polytheistic, pluralistic pantheons.
As a mormon kid, I was taught this dandy little song about Satan, and I think it explains a lot about the small-town utah culture of my parents. It's pretty disturbing... Mama told me something a little boy should know And it's all about the devil and I've learned to hate him so. Because he causes trouble when you let him in the room, And he'll never ever leave you til your heart is filled with gloom So let the sunshine in, face it with a grin. Smilers never lose and frowners never win. So let the sunshine in, face it with a grin. Open up your heart and let the sunshine in. When you are unhappy, the devil wears a grin, But oh, he starts a runnin' when the light comes prowling in. I know he'll be unhappy 'cause I'll never wear a frown. Maybe if we keep on smiling he'll get tired of hanging 'round So let the sunshine in, face it with a grin. Smilers never lose and frowners never win. So let the sunshine in, face it with a grin. Open up your heart and let the sunshine in.
In the original mesopotamian creation story, Enki the reptilian trickster is the one who both created humans (Adamu) and shared knowledge with the women (Eve). His asshole brother Enlil was the chairman (shatan) of the Annunaki gods and hater of humans, but this anti-human was cast as the benevolent deity in the plagiarized Hebrew version. And somehow Enki's title (shatan) got changed to evil "Satan" and was applied to the Enki imitating serpent. In the original story, Enki was the good guy as far as humans were concerned.
What? Satan was Gods son, brother of Jesus? I’ve never heard that story. Catholics believe he was an archangel. Also I always thought it happened way before Jesus existed. Otherwise I think the silly story is similar.
I NEVER heard anything about Satan being in control of the water. That must be a Joseph Smith teaching. Jesus DID calm the rough seas one time, but I don't think He mentioned Satan being the cause of it. I like to focus on the 4 Gospel Books: Matthew, Mark, Luke and John...and what Jesus did and taught(like forgiving the prostitute and keeping her from being stoned to death). Jesus is the WAY, the TRUTH and the LIFE...His teaching rings TRUE...he was kind, empathetic, patient, forgiving, etc....ALL positive attributes.
This is by far my favorite Zelph video because this is a subject that doesn't get addressed very often, so thank you Zelphers for tackling it. You did a great job as always, and it really got me thinking. As I see it, there are 2 possibilities... 1) God is all-powerful, and if that's the case, then he doesn't need a Satan to do the dirty work because he can do it all himself. He can send the good ones to Heaven and the bad ones to Hell. He doesn't need a Satan to tempt us on Earth because we all sin well enough on our own, and he doesn't need a Satan to even oversee Hell because he can do anything, so he's got this all covered from way up above. 2) God is all-powerful EXCEPT for when it comes to Satan, so he can't get rid of him, and we all live in this seemingly-never-ending struggle between Good and Evil. When it's all said and done, if the majority of the people are good, then God wins, and if the majority are bad, then Satan wins. But either way, this brings up a lot more questions, such as... 1) How many people have to live and die until it's all over? You'd think a million or so ought to be plenty, but we're in the billions now with no end in sight. 2) What happens next? This whole thinking about The Good staying in Heaven forever and The Bad staying in Hell forever doesn't make much sense either. It's got to be awfully crowded by now, and then what? Are there more tests for us to endure? If so, when does the testing-process ever end? What is the ultimate goal? 3) Does anyone really want to live forever anyway? That's an awful long time to live (especially with your family and don't even get me started on how that's NOT something to look forward to). I bet that after a few thousand years in the after-life, people are begging God to just let them die. So (in conclusion), there is no Satan. There is no Heaven or Hell or any after-life at all. I don't think there is even a God. If there is a God, I doubt that he cares about each and every one of us. There are just too many of us to even bother.
Religion ABSOLUTELY exacerbated my mental health problems. The superstitious nature of Catholicism (and most other religions) made my OCD so much worse. After becoming an atheist, my OCD practically disappeared, and my depressions and anxiety are SO MUCH better. Religion has such a horrible impact on mental health, especially for autistic people like me.
This was a great discussion. I think some of the history of satan and the separate figures, angels, demons, and legit just a snake, that all eventually merged into satan, and it is so interesting how mormons made this whole preexistance thing up. Also, I don't know too many mormons who can understand the book of Job. That's interesting. I'm thinking about purchasing a book called 'Republican Jesus: How the Right Has Rewritten the Gospels' by Tony Keddie. It's weird, because I want to dabble in so many religious traditions, but these western religions make it out to seem like you can't do that, even though they cherry-pick themselves. I actually prayed asking 'God' and 'Heavenly Mother' where I would progress best, and my heart told me that I would progress best outside of the corporation of the COJCOLDS. I'm so glad I followed that prompting, because like y'all have noted in this video, there were so many conceptualizations from mormonism that were holding back my spiritual, emotional, intellectual, and mental health progress.
What makes people think differently? I keep wondering why so few people think like me. I try to think through peoples motivations and it kinda stresses me out to see that people often really care about a lot of the same as me yet would probably be angry at me if they knew everything I believed. Are people just going to hate eachother? Can we lurn to still car about people who don't agree with us on things that are really important to us?
