Folks, do not respond to messages from anyone pretending to be me, asking you to connect on the Telegram app. This is a scam to get your personal information. (I promise you... I don't know what Telegram is.) How to report a scam on Telegram: www.redpoints.com/blog/how-to-report-scam-on-telegram/ Should this be happening on RU-vid? No! Do I have a human contact at RU-vid? No, I do not! In this world of depersonalized tech platforms let's just do our best to watch out for one another.
I learned so much from my uni’s brain lab. One of our donors had dementia, holding that brain taught me more about that disease than a textbook ever could. Infuriating that people would disrespect remains like this 😡
Absolutely. There is something about actually Seeing the organs and all the structures. That the best drawing etc Cannot compare to. Also. I think it's awesome that they now have online dissections and such..where you can access it from anywhere.
Treating non-consenting human bodies as sources of "curiosities" is appalling. These people didn't want to wind up being decorations in some weirdo's house, they wanted to be used for the education of the next generation of physicians.
But this makes me wonder if there is (or could be in the future) some way to donate your body specifically for things like that. It's super shitty to have it happen to people who didn't specifically consent to that, but I've thought before that it would be really cool to donate my body for people to use for artistic purposes. There must be other people out there who feel the same.
@@TheMissPoovey there is, in fact, a huge difference between your corpse being artistic decoration and... you being alive, and having practice tests run on you. namely the ol' difference between being alive and dead
And unfortunately there's not really any option for people who *specifically* want to be decorations in some weirdo's house. I've wanted to be skeletonized and articulated for display in a tattoo shop for years, and that just isn't an option pretty much anywhere in the states.
Well the problem is USA allows selling of body parts by private companies and individuals! This is not allowed in the developed world! Its absurd mythbusters can go down to a store and buy recent deceased human bones for their show! Harvard should have to pay millions to each of the victims family! The couple should be jailed for life!
Several years ago my husband was the whistleblower in a case involving photos taken of dead bodies posed with props in the local morgue. It went to trial, and he was the key witness. I think this sort of thing happens much more often than we are aware. I find it repulsive.
Kudos to your husband. In 2004 when the news broke that esteemed British journalist, Alastair Cooke had his body parts sold in NY, I started looking into this subject. The body parts industry is rife with corruption...and why would it not be? The money to be made rivals selling drugs.
My father always said that he wanted to donate his body to science. The owner of the local funeral home warned me that we might not have closure by not having a funeral. I realized that I would always feel badly that I did not follow my dad's wishes. He was donated to the medical collage nearby. I always felt that the closure I had was perfect. Talking with the students after the memorial was wonderful, hearing thier experience and gratitude for the experience made me feel so proud of my dad. He did a good thing.
Not sure if that funeral director was just really uninformed or trying to manipulate you. There are plenty of circumstances where people can still have a memorial service for their loved one without actually having the body be present. My uncle's brother donated his body two years ago and his family still had a funeral for him.
You still could have done a funeral, you dont need a body to do a funeral. I many cases wher epeoples corpses cant be recovered whyever, they still get one. That should not be issue i mean and what the heck that funeral director , why he was dishonest. Like good if that was fine, but he should have told you its no problem and whatever you want.
Sounds like Dad was honored all around. I can understand the funeral director's thought. Dealing with my moms death presently, lots of family/unwanted opinions...on top of that, i dealt with a death there was no funeral, memorial, nothing, i just had to ID the body and say a prayer. That is more the way i'd prefer, but there was only 2 of us in the room, i think others may have had a better time digesting everything if there was something of a funeral. Its a hard time either way, maybe the director just wanted to be sure.
My partner's mother died during Covid (it was an inoperable blood clot that claimed her). She was cremated and almost a year later, we were able to get all the family in town and a bunch of her friends together to do a "Celebration of Life" gathering. It was beautiful and it gave closure to everyone involved. I'm not even sure everyone was aware that the box with her name and likeness on it was actually her urn with her ashes in it. And really, I don't think it matters. The point was to remember her and the impact she had on all of us. It certainly felt more meaningful to me than any "traditional" funeral I'd ever been to.
my mother had terminal cancer and we talked more than once about how she wanted her remains handled. she wanted to be donated to science (her dream was to end up at a body farm) but said that she knew it would make her sisters uncomfortable. she told me she didn’t like the idea of cremation either. on her deathbed she decided to be cremated to save my aunts feelings and make things easier on my dad when it came to funerary services. i think i’ll always hold resentment that she was made to feel like what she wanted was less important than other people’s feelings.
I was one of the med students who benefited tremendously from kind donors. We met our donor’s family…apparently he was a teacher and he had told family that this was his final teaching session
I also choked and teared up and flashed back to my best Teachers and how important their efforts still are in my life.... Lucky students to a Great Teacher.
I've missed you, Caitlin! Yours is one of the few consistently intelligent, well written and organized, and INTERESTING channels on RU-vid. And you do it without being stuffy or elitist. I love your work. The RU-vid part of it, not necessarily the handling deceased bodies part ( I merely admire you for that part). I truly hope you're treated as well by RU-vid as the game-players and makeup gurus are.
My grandfather was a part of this. He used to joke with us about how he "was going to Harvard." This has caused my family so much distress and grief. Thank you for covering this Caitlin. Edit to clarify, he was a cadaver.
You're not responsible for what your grandfather did, use this as a motivation to be an example for others, never feel ashamed for who you are, you're the better part of his legacy.
Im surprised they werent charged with desecration of a corpse. I know the bodies were donated but medical dissection and selling someones face are two extremely different things. Its shocking that peoples family members are being treated as "stolen goods." They were people!
As a nurse, we have to count narcotics in our cart at every change of shift to avoid someone diverting them. I would assume that there would also be that sort of fail safe for HUMAN BEINGS!!! Unbelievable the lack of respect and accountability for these people!!!
My sister used to work for a private career college that had to scrap it's pharmacy assistant program, because they had an epidemic of people registering for the program, for the sole purpose of stealing prescription drugs during their work placements.
When I was in Nursing School at BYU in the 80s the rules were very clear: If you made any disparaging comment or jokes about the cadaver, you were immediately removed from class and dismissed from the University. Done. Gone. The privilege to study these donated bodies was treated like a very sacred event. I am grateful to those persons who selflessly donated their bodies to medicine and the knowledge of students.
That is a very good practice! When I was in nursing school in the 2010s and observed electroshock therapy, it was disturbing just to see but even worse bc the staff were joking about the person’s body. It was an older woman with a wee tummy and they joked “she’s pregnant.” Really disrespectful. I did talk to my professor about it. I wouldn’t want to be treated that way. I am not sure if she could hear it or not.
My dad was there at BYU in the 90s, he was in charge of making a speech honoring the donors when they were done studying them, before cremating their remains (kind of like giving them a second funeral in a way)
@@thetitanian5544 I typed that on my phone, it never looked like it sent so I pressed the button multiple times 😅 I didn't know it did this until I saw your message
Five years ago, my mother-in-law's body was illegally sold from the hospice care where she died to a local university. This happened before we were even told she was dead. Cue five days of frantic searching before finally receiving a box of cremains (even though MIL was adamant on wanting a burial). Both the hospital responsible for the sale and the university that received the body have refused to cooperate with the investigation or with the lawyers we hired after the fact. What infuriated me about the whole affair is that I myself am a big believer in donating one's body to medical science, and this exact scenario--that one's body will be snapped up, parceled out, and sold off to unscrupulous buyers without one's consent--is a fear that prevents many people from checking the organ donor box.
I hope you've gone to the media with your story. Sometimes the bad press is the "incentive" these organizations need to start cooperating with investigations.
My grandpa passed in 2019 and he donated his body to Harvard wayyyy back in the 80s so he is a part of this case. My family and I joined the lawsuit and we get occasional updates on the case but it’s likely going to be a long process. The only good news is my grandpa would probably think it’s pretty funny that his skull might be chilling on someone’s shelf somewhere 😂 Update: was notified by the legal team that this case was dismissed! They are working towards an appeal but no updates yet…
During my first anatomy for the artist class we had to purchase replica casts of skulls. The teacher insisted we treat them like they were real skulls because they were cast from a real skull and it's important to remember that. My first time handling real human bones during my Forensic Anthropology class, the teacher made sure to stress we always remember we are handling the remains of a person. It boggles my mind how people forget these were real people and just treat them as objects and toys.
A forensic anthropology class sounds so interesting. How come you had to purchase a replica cast of a skull for artist anatomy class? My art school had skulls/anatomical models we would gather around and draw. School is free where I live though if that makes a diff(Scandinavia).
It's not that surprising when you remember that it's pretty common for a statistically significant portion of the population to treat living people that they know as objects and toys. Which makes the treatment of the dead pretty unsurprising, really.
in archaeology we deal with old or decaying bones all the time, and we still treat them with dignity and respect, i don’t know how people can be so callous with recently deceased remains ://
Caitlin my dear love, I'm glad you're here again! In my country, Colombia, there was a terrible tale of something like this, except... THEY WERE KILLING PEOPLE. When they tried to kill a homeless man, he pretended to be dead and when he opened his eyes, other victims were next to him. Only the guards commiting the murders were convicted... So terribly sad. It's called "matanza unilibre" of The murderers of Unilibre. It's suspected 50 people died.
That is insane. I went through a year of Gross Human Anatomy, with lab (yes, we dissected human cadavers), and my professor made sure that the bodies were always treated with respect, and all parts were kept with their respective bodies. He made sure we remembered that these were people, they were someone's loved one. Treat them the way we would want our relatives treated.
Yes. I had a human cadaver lab for my undergraduate anatomy lab. There were strict rules for keeping things with the body. The only exception was artificial implants and I would not be surprised if the pacemaker and the joint replacement parts were sourced from somewhere else.
Current medical student here; we are not allowed to know the donor's name or meet the family due to HIPAA stuff, but we treat our bodies with immense respect and hold a memorial service at the end of the year for them. I may not have known who I dissected, but she will forever be my first patient and I hold her in extremely high regard.
My mom knew the first name of hers, I wonder if it differs by situation (maybe the request of the deceased) or if a fake name was chosen. She was also told about part of the patients life that affected the condition of her body
@@mzmoon100 We got to know the cause of death, but I assume the name is dependent on what state you are in. We wrote cards for the families but they had to go to the group that provides us our donors so they could connect them appropriately
I think it differs based on the institution and also the laws of the country where the institution is based. When I was a student, we didn't know the names of ours (although the staff at the anatomy lab had come up with affectionate nicknames for them, e.g Granny Jane, Uncle Barry, that sort of thing). A family member went to medical school in a different country and he said the school would organise a memorial day for all the cadavers that were being retired, which would be attended by faculty, students and the cadavers' families, and that the school also covered the costs of burial/cremation, as a thank you to the deceased and family.
I was able to request to the college who got my grandmother to know how her body was used and they were awesome enough to even mail us the notes from the students that would have been cremated with her remains when done. She was used for Occupational Therapists! It was neat seeing the notes about how much she taught them!
"They were paying each other through PayPal. They have Instagram accounts. The future of body malfeasance is here and it's absurdist." 😲 Quote for the ages, Caitlyn.
I lost my father last month and my uncle (who's a funeral director) tried to upsell us on a casket and thanks to you I told him to show us the cheapest one they had since my dad wouldn't have cared. Thank you for giving me the courage to speak up even in one of my worst moments.
STOP!! I lost my dad pretty early, I'm 24 now and he passed when I was 14. My parents were not married, only together for 19 years when he passed, and his sisters got lawyered up to get my inheritance and also on top didn't contribute even flowers to his funeral. My mom covered everything whole. My "aunts" did nothing but perpetuate more misery in time of death and grief. I haven't talked to them in person since. I feel so deeply for you! I hope you got time to grieve in peace! 🙏🏼
My mother’s donation was misused by Tulane University. I’ll forever be scarred by her mishandling and lack of details of what happened. Thank you for bringing a voice to these realities.
When I was in undergrad I took a poetry writing class and wrote a poem about bodies being divided into parts and auctioned off to the highest bidder at a university. It was written from the point of view of one of the bodies. My professor told me that it was too macabre and that the idea was too over the top and something like that “would never happen at a university medical school.” She said I should focus on more realistic topics. Now I just want to send her the articles about this story.
I mean anyone that knows even a little bit about medical history knows that stolen corpses sold for cash were pretty much the foundation for modern medicine… ridiculous that your teacher didn’t see that
such a cool piece of writing I'm sure. Not cool this happened for real, but I bet you wrote something great!!! I used to get a lot of trouble in elementary school for writing horror stuff, like when I wrote about a witch eating a baby to destroy her family's happiness only for the baby to come back and watch over the family, making them immune to her spells. teacher REALLY didn't like that one
@@karak962 I have never understood teachers who assign creative projects and get upset when a student's form of creativity doesn't match their own. Creative writing, art, etc. is all subjective. Different forms appeal to different people. These things should never be graded based on the subject matter, but on the way that the student applies the lessons learned in their execution of the creative process.
Y'know, it's wild how free-and-easy it is not to sell body parts. I've been not selling body parts my whole life! Rarely am I even _tempted_ to sell a body part!
My dear friend taught gross anatomy with human dissection for years. She was a lifelong educator with contagious enthusiasm and a laugh that brightened the day of everyone around her. She died of cancer last year and donated her own body to education. Always teaching, even after death
As a professional fine artist, the idea that my bodily remains could end up incorporated in , forgive me, some half ass creepy art project providing profits to a stranger, just offends me beyond telling. I would be soooooo pissed off. I would haunt everybody involved until the end of time. Glad you’re back. Missed you! ❤
I think art with my bone and skull would be pretty cool but NOT in somebody else’s hands. just my family’s, because this doesn’t really feel like art it’s objectifying and dehumanizing.
@@comfortme My FIL told us we get first dibs on his body parts when he dies and I jokingly told my husband "you think they'd give us his skeleton so we can have a fully articulated skeleton Dad in the house?" He was like "wait that would actually be so cool!" Knowing my FIL he'd get a kick out of that but obviously it's all a joke, that's a little too weird even for me
i’ve needed cadaver skin from a donor for only about a week. maybe i’m just mushy, but i almost wanted to ask whose skin it was to thank the family for having a kind relative. i didn’t since it felt dramatic but needless to say, i think these donations are so important. this story is truly so disturbing
@@wordzmyth yup! the nurse actually referred to it as “cadaver skin”, i said “WHAT?!!?”, and she explained the skin is from an organ donor :) i’ve heard others get pig skin for their burns more commonly tho so i’m not sure exactly why they used human skin
@@ryguy56 people who are organ donors really want you to have that skin as a gift to help you live your life. It is nothing to do with the other negative subjects of this video. I am an organ donor and hope that if I die my body can benefit as many as need spare parts if that is a way to put it.
I understand the reluctance to be 'mushy', but I think this is a completely understandable emotional response. Please don't feel ashamed for your humanity and compassion
This is an incredibly kind gesture and there’s nothing odd about wanting to thank the loved ones of the person who is helping you heal from a traumatic injury. You have a kind soul. I wish you a swift and pleasant recovery!
We wrote thank you letters to family members. No cameras were allowed in the lab. We also kept every bit of human tissue in a bag that was kept with the respective body, so absolutely nothing was thrown away or mixed up. When i went on to another school, we used a digital program of a scanned body. Before we started class, we learned that he was a prisoner on death row who wanted his body donated to science. These cadavers truly are our first patients.
My husband passed unexpectedly in 2022 and always wanted to donate his body "to science". He didn't have a will, and his family and I had to try to remember his wishes as he'd communicated them to us in the past. The hospital social worker was supremely helpful in finding a way to honor his wishes because, as we found out, it's tough to "donate a body to science" if not planned in advance (at least in our area). He was able to have tissues, organs, corneas, and other parts provided to many in need, and I've received very kind letters from recipients over time. Make a will, folks. And please consider donation to help others ❤
That is so sweet you received letters from those people. Knowing how parts of him would continue to live and help others and having that confirmation that it was put to good use sounds so comforting after watching this video.
The letters sound so nice. When my dad passed, they called to inform us that his eyes could be going to a new home if we gave an okay. We did, and that’s all the information we ever got. I did a little bit of research into if it’s possible to find out where his eyes ended up, but apparently that’s really hard to get access to if it wasn’t arranged through certain organizations. It’s nice to know that somebody out there is potentially benefitting from that piece of him though. I just wish we knew more
I'm an organ donor and I hope I can help after I die but I also would like to be naturally buried in a nature preserve. How do I make sure that happens?
that is why I love my province's healthcare so much. Every citizen has a government insurance card and you can sign at the back to have your body/organs donated. A system that saves many lives.
Two relatives of mine are/were doctors. One told stories of the homeless being used by the prominent university he worked for, scooped up dead off the streets, for experiments (or sometimes maybe almost dead). The other was involved in a medical school that treated the donated cadavers with immense respect and gentleness, my relative even cried at the service they held for her before she was finally cremated. For everyone’s continued benefit we need the latter experience and no leniency for disrespect.
How long ago? In my city, homeless unclaimed people who die on the street are cremated, and then everyones urn is put in a vault in the cemetary under a headstone with the year and a small poem on it. A ceremony is held for them, where all the names (if known) are read, multifaith prayers and secular poems are said. A lot of people go to the ceremomies, usually friends of the deceased, homeless advocates. If family members show up and want to claim the remains later, the urn can be disinterred from the vault.
Our colleague's city is nicer than ours. Here, it's like Chicago animal control. 24 hours with no comes to claim 'em? Ashes to ashes and they don't bother to check if the dead had family. And they don't bother with urns.
Having such different experiences is a problem imho. There should be nationwide regulations for donations of bodies and I know for a fact there are regulations for unclaimed bodies so a medical school using them is horrific to me
Can we take a moment to recognize that Patreon song for the real banger that it is. Missed you, Caitlin! This whole ordeal is insane and so devastating :( Thank you for all that you do
OMG thank you! If I don't hear this the next time I'm at the club I'm going to be highly disappointed, and I'm only half kidding. This slaps so hard and I honestly need to sign up for her Patreon now. If this isn't the best advertisement I've ever heard for anything, I don't think I'd survive anything better.
I’m forever grateful to the woman who donated her body so that I could study it as a doctorate of physical therapy student. She was a nurse; her generosity and heart for helping others touched not just her patients, but also mine ❤ I’m horrified and saddened to hear of the lack of respect these people had for the donors and their families.
My little sisters body was donated and a few years later i connected with the woman who inherited her heart and it was AMAZING to hear Gabbys heart beating so strongly again. ❤
As a "goth" who got into it via doing a lot of hospice/good death work as a teen and liking the music scene, one of the biggest cultural divides for me are the human body part art people. Order of the Good Death has really helped me point to the specific legal and historic basis of why I'm REALLY DEEPLY UNCOMFORTABLE around people who desecrate the death under some "oooo spooky" aesthetic. The Philadelphia MOVE bombings were within my lifetime; those could have been my skeletons. Nope nope nope.
I'm into the spooky art but it's kinda funny you mention the MOVE bodies as in addition to the city "losing track" of them (along with evidence in many many cases), there was just a recent headline that someone donated 2 preserved fetuses to the mütter museum... With no note or anything, or official channel of donation.
@@StonedtotheBones13 yeaaahhh. At this point, if it's not your grandpappy's femur he kept around after his amputation, I just don't think you should have it. The provenance of human remains is just too damn iffy. In a world with 3-D printers and apoxie sculpt, if an artist can't be spooky without using a non-consenting corpse I honestly think they're pretty crap anyway. (Look at claymation, it's plenty spooky!)
I watch a lot of true crime, and on one video, someone commented about their experience as an EMT. They were called to a scene where the person could not be revived, and they had to transport his body to the hospital. This was the commenter's first experience with a dead person, and he was anxious. His senior EMT colleague told him, "This is a person who needs help. And we help people. So, we're going to help him get to the hospital, and that's all it is." The commenter says that's how he thinks of all patients who die under his care--they are still patients, and they still need help. It really impacted my own thinking about the dead. A person who dies is still a person, and they can still do good, or need help. The comments on this video talking about the respect medical students give to those who donate their bodies reminded me of it. Thank you for talking about this case Caitlin and always reminding us that even though someone is gone, their remains are still PEOPLE, and they deserve respect for that, and for their loved ones' feelings.
My mum donated her body to the University of Queensland because she loved medical things and always wanted to go to uni. Two years later our uni choir was invited to sing at the uni's thanksgiving service for the families of donors. Although I teared up because my mum was one of the donors being honoured that year, it was beautiful and I'm always thankful that I was able to sing at that particular service. Of course I found this episode to be a bit tougher to watch than usual, as I was imagining the grief those families must be feeling about the treatment of their loved ones, so the Patreon song at the end was the perfect mood changer.
A lot of people loop around from "dead bodies are not anything inherently spooky or taboo that can only be handled in quarantine" and end up landing on "it doesn't matter what you do to a dead body".
I feel like in this day and age it's nearly impossible to not know that most human body parts not coming directly from the person or their family members, that you can buy for art, are sourced extremely unethically
My grandfather donated his body to medical science and i always worried about "mishandling", but We live in Scotland and there are rigorous checks in place when it comes to this kind of thing . I remember When my father got the call to go pick up my grandfather's ashes afterward, the person allowed him into the crematory and explained how everything worked and showed him an in progress almost done cremation. He talked about it like it was the most fascinating thing.
Yeah, man. If I'm dead, I don't need it anymore. Obviously, if anything can be used for transplantation, that's my first concern. In fact, I think everyone should be considered an organ donor unless they've filled out a form to opt out. But after that, have at it.
@@crystalcoolidge6297 They've actually restructured the law in the UK to make it an 'opt out' - so you now have to actively say you don't want your organs donated.
In most US states, that is not one of very few sanctioned post-mortem options. I truly wish there were a clear way to donate your body to be used as art or curiosities
@@crystalcoolidge6297 Nope, opt in only. If my family got paid for the organ donations then yes i'd consider it- after all the hospital and doctors make money off the surgery so why not pay my family for the organs. Otherwise no, wont donate.
Thank you for reporting on this. I had the deep honor of being able to do some of my paramedic training with a cadaver lab. We knew who our donors were, how they passed, and the entire class wrote thank-you notes to each family of the donors. Our instructors made damn sure we were respectful the whole time. This is infuriating.
My grandmother wished to be "donated to science" upon her passing, she had many ailments and surgeries throughout the course of her life and wanted to help future generations of doctors to help people like her. Unfortunately, her wishes were not honored and she was cremated and stuffed in a cardboard box for the funeral. I wish they had honored her wishes, as I felt her decision was a noble one and could have helped people.
Well someone like me and her have "unwell" or defective body parts that means we wouldn't make a good specimen no matter how much we love science (╥﹏╥)
I just got a job at a crematorium and I just wanted to thank you for being the reason why! I started watching your content when I was 14, I’m now 20 and I’m hyped to start my career in funeralcare! You’ve been such an inspiration :)
My Dad donated his body to one of our state’s medical college. He had idiopathic pulmonary fibrosis and wanted to inspire medical students into research or cardiopulmonology. The college held a beautiful memorial service where I actually had the pleasure of meeting a few students who studied his body and needless to say, they were all so very thankful and appreciative. It was truly a humbling experience all around.
As a medical student in the early 1990s, I was extremely grateful for the people and families who donated remains to help me and my classmates become better doctors. Many thanks to your dad and your family for your donation. Each of the students your donation helped educate likely went on to save lives. As contributors to their education, you also bear some credit for the people those students went on to help and the lives they saved.
I graduated medical school in 1991. We had a memorial ceremony for the people who donated their bodies to teach us. They were treated respectfully. I would have felt fine about donating my body until I learned about people like this in the video.
Caitlins outrage is palpable and warranted. Incredible. What is wrong with these people? And who collects body parts for art? Who buys that art? Crazy. Thanks Caitlin
I mean, there are totally people that do donate their bodies legally to art specifically, and it is something that happens in the Fine Art world, but those artists don't typically do commercial stuff in the same way as the people in the video.
there are some crazy people in the art world BUT historically both doctors and artists have paid handsomely for cadavers from grave robbers. Leonardo da Vinci for example. His studies of anatomy are all from these cadavers that he paid grave robbers to retrieve for him. Meanwhile, surgeons used both stolen cadavers and prisoners to teach medical students.
I do! I collect all kinds of body parts, mostly skulls and bones, not so into the taxidermy side of it. I have two real human skulls, but most of my collection are other animals. Bone is a unique canvas unlike any other. To create something from the remains of an animal that was once alive, just like you and I is a singular experience. Art is a deeply personal thing; what’s weird and disgusting for some, another may find beautiful.
I can understand using parts of dead people for art - Just in a way so utterly different than this as to be a difforent thing altogether. The practice would be a fundamentally different and more respectful thing if the person physically in the art and their family had known the artist and the work being considered and consented to it. I'm gonna bet there would be far fewer creepy cheep-horror-inspired dolls and that blood painting could be poignant and intimate for loved ones. Also, I'm gonna bet there would be huge legal issue to field for what would be a very niche business. Would it be healing for a grieving family to collaborate on all stages of making a meaningful painting with a loved one's old art supplies and other cherished things and also their actual blood? I can see it being really special and beautiful and absolutely nothing like the exchanges in this story. I must say, though, I do wonder about the technical constraints of such art-making. Blood is protein-rich, so keeping it from smelling and "going bad" in any number of ways in this process seems challenging. How you would then make such a fundamentally living liquid an archival medium, so that an heirloom like this could be passed down and loved forever is quite the art chemistry question, and I wonder how the stupid, heartless blood hobby artist here managed to make and pedal such work, given those concerns. Also, anyone whose ever dealt with blood stains knows it turns brown with time. Would such hypothetical meaningful memorial works be vibrant or rosy in their blood reds, or soft and sepia cream and brown works? Anyway, Caitlin is right, this whole story is just beyond awful. Clearly I'd rather follow the nearest tangent that leads to ideas actually reasonable artists might pursue. Is it worth the legal hurdles and spending years and great funds slowly training yourself to paint expertly with hogs' blood for the few people who's love this? Probably it's not workable. Still, for some artist, somewhere, who cares enough, it's a beautiful idea.
We got to see human cadavers in nursing school for our Anatomy classes. Ironically, in my second year of my nursing degree, my Poppy passed away from cancer. He donated his body to my University so they could study him (he had lung cancer). My school had a memorial service for our family members and I was so happy to know that he was going to be helping future doctors and nurses and also - everyone in my class were so respectful to the cadavers. It was drilled into us that we must be respectful. The fact that people have no moral compass to do this just blows my mind. And I also am so thankful to those who make the decision to entrust educational establishments with their bodies.
As a medical student it’s honestly appalling that the final wishes of these people were neglected and ignored, I’m so thankful to all the donors who help me learn it truly is a honour and gift!
My great-grandmother's dying wish was to return to her alma mater and former workplace, UC Berkeley, as a donated body. For several reasons (including the older relatives in my family being scammed by a shady middleman), that didn't happen. I'm forever haunted, not by her everlasting spirit but by the fact we couldn't accomplish her final wish as she intended it. So what Caitlin had to say about holding our middlemen to high standards of transparency and care, I couldn't agree more. Her (Caitlin's) kind words almost made me cry.
the thing that's wild to me is that i'm sure there are plenty of people who would donate their bodies to be used in art. why is there not a program for that? could've helped prevent a lot of heartache and headache.
Or they could just 3D print the bones they need, or use animal skin and organs. There's no actual need to use human body parts, and a whole lot of reasons not to permit it.
I live the next town over from Salem, and this was shocking. Salem frequently has outdoor markets, especially around Halloween season, and I go regularly and I swear I’ve seen her booth there with her dolls. Knowing now that there were human remains incorporated into those dolls is sickening. It’s wild how these people have zero empathy for the families of the deceased they stole. How violating. If someone stole and sold the body of my family member, I’d be so engaged idk what I’d do.
Oh I can't wait to watch this. As a local and vulture culture enthusiast, I met Kat when she was vending at an event in Salem. Was really creeped out by the presence of human bone among her wares, and asked her how she sourced it. She made some hand-wavy excuse about how "when people donate their bodies to science, eventually science no longer has a need for them". Of course, I did not buy any. When this news broke I can't say I was shocked.
Sounds like something the event organizers should be looking out for. That's a really bad look for them not vetting their vendors - or they knew and were cool with it
@@3nbyBl3uI3I2 I'd say it's an oversight on the events organisers part. But they have always operated on an honour system. No one expected people would be so unethical. Yes, in hindsight it was a bit naive of them to act like this. But they've operated on a system of honesty from the beginning. As I said above no one thought anyone would behave in a way that brought the entire system into disrepute. Since the various body part scandals of the past few years. Alot of vendors are making sure they have documentation they can show buyers. Where the parts came from & who they got them from. That way they know its above board. Not all vendors do this, so if you're looking to by body parts. I'd oy buy from a vendor that's willing to show documentation. Or just buy a well crafted fake to avoid all doubts.
@@3nbyBl3uI3I2 I'd say it's an oversight on the events organisers part. But they have always operated on an honour system. No one expected people would be so unethical. Yes, in hindsight it was a bit naive of them to act like this. But they've operated on a system of honesty from the beginning. As I said above no one thought anyone would behave in a way that brought the entire system into disrepute. Since the various scandals of the past few years. Alot of vendors are making sure they have documentation they can show buyers. Where the parts came from & who they got them from. That way they know its above board. Not all vendors do this, so if you're looking to by parts. I'd buy from a vendor that's willing to show documentation. Or just buy a well crafted fake to avoid all doubts.
@@3nbyBl3uI3I2 I'd say it's an oversight on the events organisers part. But they have always operated on an honour system. No one expected people would be so unethical. Yes, in hindsight it was a bit naive of them to act like this. But they've operated on a system of honesty from the beginning. As I said above no one thought anyone would behave in a way that brought the entire system into disrepute. Since the various scandals of the past few years. Alot of vendors are making sure they have documentation they can show. Where the bits came from & who they purchased them from. That way they know its above board. Not everyone does this, so I'd only deal with someone that's willing to show documentation. Or just get a well crafted fake to avoid all doubts.
@@3nbyBl3uI3I2 Indeed... absolutely they should be looking into it. When the news broke in 2004 that esteemed British Journalist, Alastair Cooke, had his body parts sold in NY, I started looking into the body parts industry. It is rife with corruption...and why would it not be? The money rivals selling drugs. Did this woman also take a sabbatical from the funeral biz? If she did, maybe pulling those long, rubbery, amyloid clots out of cadavers (since 2021) got to be too much, even for her flipent nature.
I worked as a subcontractor for Harvard when this happened. I had met with Lodge a few times to service the morgue but the few times i went in, it was under strict supervision by him. That was basically one (if not only) of the few places we didnt have access to on our own. We had to make an appointment with Lodge via email in our to service the morgue. The few times i met with him he seemeed polite enough, but he definitely had a dark sense of humor. But still, no one saw this coming. For those that may wonder, everything was all put away and or bagged when I got there. No remains or corpses were left out. He kept this well hidden from everyone.
I took a course in human osteology for my archaeology degree. Our first class was a lecture on how the skeletal remains that we'd be using for the course were once living, breathing human beings. We needed to treat them with respect and compassion (some of the skeletons were quite old and rumour had it the university received remains of marginalized people, indigenous people along with remains from India and China). Wouldn't you know, within a week students were doing stupid shit with the skeletons, especially the fully articulated ones. This course was for third year university students, so I guess those in the early to mid-20s. So, I guess maturity wasn't something required for this course. While I didn't do stupid stuff myself, I turned a blind eye to those that did. Not my greatest moment, that's for sure. When we aged and sexed our group study skeleton, we realised she was a young woman possibly in her mid to late teens and had signs of having children. Of course, while aging and sexing a skeleton isn't an exact science, it made us realise that some of what we had in the lab may have had heartbreaking ends to their lives. We also had infant and fetal skeletal remains in the lab. Again, rumours abound on how those were obtained, but we were told they had records of each one and none of them were obtained in a nefarious way. Did I believe it? I still have my doubts, to be honest, and at least when I was going to university there had been issues that the department didn't really want to address with students and brushed a lot under the carpet. For the record, the university I went to was a university that is nearly 200 years old (and not American).
My grandmother donated her body to Harvard and passed away during this situation. We have been told that her body may have been impacted by the crimes. Frankly, it is disgusting that not only this happened at all but for so long without detection. And, that people were able to access the morgue which was clearly not secure to actually choose body parts. And worse for all of the families, many of us will never know for sure if our loved one’s remains were sold.
I am so incredibly sorry that this happened to you and your family. Your grandmother truly did a selfless gesture, she made a difference in death. I am sorry that her generosity was tainted by the selfishness and ignorance of others. Words will not offer closure, I hope that those responsible will be held accountable for what they have done. As a med student( granted, not at Harvard), I want to thank you and your grandmother for the privilege of learning anatomy. This type of noble act allows us to learn how to help others
I am truly sorry that happened to you! I hope you sue the bajeezus out of them! Seems that’s how to hit these types of people the hardest is in the bank. I hope you find answers and you find peace
Thank you for this detailed reminder. In our first week of medical school, the head of the anatomy department gave us a very stern lecture on the importance of treating cadavers and all anatomical material with respect and dignity. He assured us that the fastest way out of medical school was to fail in this regard. It left a huge impression.
This is horrifying. My husband passed in September, and after having a bad experience with him being an organ donor (the company was totally tone deaf), I'm feeling really triggered by these people treating remains as a commodity. It makes me all the more relieved that his donation fell through. I do realize this probably isn't the case with most donations, but it was enough to make me think twice about being a donor. I totally feel for the families that had to deal with this.
This is horrifying. My husband passed in September, and after having a bad experience with him being an organ donor (the company was totally tone deaf), I'm feeling really triggered by these people treating remains as a commodity. It makes me all the more relieved that his donation fell through. I do realize this probably isn't the case with most donations, but it was enough to make me think twice about being a donor. I totally feel for the families that had to deal with this. 😔
I was not permitted to keep my wisdom teeth as souvenirs when they were extracted, years ago, yet creeps exploiting the dead can just ship them with ease through the postal service... Wtf?
Yeah, I got all four of my wisdom teeth... Don't know where they are, but I got them from the dentist. Sounds like your dentist wanted to have some souvenirs.
I had a baby tooth until I was 32. When I finally went in to have it removed, I asked them if I could keep it. They were hesitant but I got it back and they even included one of those little tooth boxes they give kids for the tooth fairy. I only wanted it because it was special. The adult tooth that was supposed to push it out came in sideways and when it erupted, it came out the roof of my mouth behind all my other teeth. So, my baby tooth just hung out. Forever. It wasn't loose, it had no cavities. I'd still have it if they hadn't decided that removing it would be more beneficial in fixing my teeth than leaving it in. I'm rambling, but yeah the point was that I got to keep my tooth. You should have been able to keep yours!
The one side they removed, they let me keep. Then I went back for the other side and was told it's illegal. Shady! This was for braces and wisdom removal, so one side each month.
I did a cadaver lab in college and we were taught to treat these people with the respect they deserve. I didn’t go to med school or anything, I just am extremely interested in the body and how it works because I’m chronically ill. My cadaver was an elderly lady who had her nails painted, which hit home for me because it really reminded me of her humanity. Everyday I made sure to thank her for her gift that allowed me to learn, grow, and understand. I know that wherever she is in the afterlife, she heard me 💕
my anatomy lab in college had a female cadaver come in with red toenail polish. I have a vivid memory of our instructor asking us what the significance of an older woman with toenail polish was. I was surprised that I was the only one who knew that meant she was cared for by family, as her age implied she would have been unable to do this herself. every time I looked at her all I could think of was how much her family loved her, and their (and her) generosity to allow her body to be dissected for education of others.
As a kid I wanted nothing more than to make it to Harvard but I've thoroughly lost any and all respect for them after all the bullshit I've learned over the years.
I thought going to an ivy league meant that you were an exceptional student, but then I learned it’s really because your mommy and daddy have an exceptional amount of money.
My father's body was sent to Fayetteville Community College in NC. I highly recommend this program. His body was respectfully utilized jn the mortuary science department. They cover the cost of transportation and cremation. His cremated remains were returned to us five weeks later. We received a lovely card from with personalized messages from each student on how my father's decision to donate would benefit their education and other families they would serve for generations to come. ❤
Yes. They had a collection of both Native American human remains and hair that was cut off along with various items that were supposed to be returned under the NAGPRA law of 1991. Harvard is trash
Im a hospice nurse, death is very near and dear to me. We always treat our deceased pts with the same compassion as when they were alive. I have things set up to be donated, my whole family knows this. The one caveat being of one of them decides they cant be at peace with that, then they can do whatever gives them peace, they are most important. But I have also always joked that its the only way Ill ever find myself going to medical school. Being a nurse, its how I know what I know today, how weve learned and gained knowledge. Id like to ba a part of advancing that knowledge, even in death.
The thing that gets me is that I'm SURE there are some spooky folk that would LOVE for their body to be used in a creepy art piece after they died, but with permission!!! If you really wanna use bodies as art so bad, just ASK somebody 🙄 I know a few people who would say yes
as far as i know, in america, you can't. I've looked it up and it's illegal for my family to get my bones for instance returned to them after i die. I dont know why
@@alsafyche it's another thing that varies from state to state, and there are processes you can go through (and fees you have to pay, bribery will get you anywhere), to donate your body for post mortem ownership and art.
I learned a lot from Günther (not the real name, it is the one we gave him, because privacy protections meant we did not know the original), he was my "first patient". And we had a memorial service for all our body donors, that was a very powerful moment.
My brother's girlfriend is in that stage of medschool at the moment but it's difficult to have accountability on a subject with single Individuals in the chain of custody
Absolutely deplorable. I worked at a university college in Sydney for many years and twice a year we would run cadaver labs for our medical students before they continued onto 2nd year studies. Our number one focus before education was respecting the cadavers! ANY student showing even the slightest amount of disrespect would be reprimanded and face removal from the labs. This story sickens me. But then today, MANY things happening in the world sicken me.
Caitlin, your compassion for those who have passed & then cruelly sold for profit, literally brought tears to my eyes. Thank you so for your erudite support and unswerving convictions for how we treat the departed.
This just blows my mind. When I was in grad school, we had cadaver lab. We had to go through like a one hour lecture on stupid things people were busted doing to donated bodies and what they would do to you if you were caught or connected to one of the items on the big no-no list. It was drilled into every class and lab that this was someone's family member and if you so much as looked at it wrong, you were out for the day. To wak into your job and think this was ok, WTF!?!
I will forever feel indebted to the people that donated their bodies for me to be able to learn. The knowledge I gained from my cadaver lab is invaluable. I’m appalled that anyone would treat the dead, especially those giving the ultimate gift, with such disrespect. I hope the families get everything they’re asking for.
My father died a couple of weeks ago. Caitlin, oh God, I don't know how I would have gotten through it without everything you have taught me about death. Sitting in the funeral home office less than 12 hours after he died, planning the funeral, it seemed cruel at first. I understand why there is a rush but damn it was hard. Anyway, with what you have taught me about death we were able to have the funeral he would have wanted. I wasn't worried about what others would think. There was no pastor, we took turns telling funny stories, there was so much laughter. One if the ribbons on the casket flowers even said "That's all folks", something he always said needed to be included. I know 1000% it was how he wanted it. I'm so glad I didn't feel pressured to have a more traditional funeral that felt inauthentic to him. Thank you.
@@redrumax - Different cultures. And it's rare for a corpse not to buried for weeks. If the person was part of a criminal investigation, then the corpse might be evidence and retained.
@@redrumax When it takes days to travel across the country, it provides the time necessary for family and friends to gather for the funeral. Most people in the U.S. live hundreds of miles away from their families.
This case is horrifying. I’m a third year right now. My school has a memorial service at the end of the year for all of the donors. We have strict controls for our cadaver lab, including storing all removed tissue in dedicated bins so all remains go with the donor at the end of the anatomy class, and key card access to the lab only to students enrolled in the anatomy class. How these people treated the donor bodies is atrocious. I had so many moments during anatomy lab when I was on the brink of tears while moving the bodies, cutting into them, and wondering who the donors were in life.
I'm a 4th year student and my DO school in a rural state does the same; we treated each first patient with the respect that they deserve and had limited access to the anatomy lab. The urban medical school where I did my master's degree on the other hand treated the bodies and the lab pretty nonchalantly. I really won't be surprised if the next scandal will be from them.
Several members of my family and I have signed up to be donated to our local medical school. So far 1 of us passed and quickly was used and cremated and sent back to his wife. They even gave her a dvd of the service and a private RU-vid link of the service to share. Another passed but they didn't take him because he had covid. I'm not sure how I feel about this. While I don't think I'd want people messing with the remains without permission I mostly think of dead bodies as empty shells to be disposed of. The person that was in there is gone at that point. I think for my own body I'd be disappointed that I didn't get a share in the profit.
@@rozygcf6611 lol im also rural DO 😜 I've noticed these things happen the most at big academic medical centers. Surprise how in places with lots of money, stuff liek this gets through.
I used to be an eye recovery technician for organ donation. And everytime I went in the room or morgue, as part of my routine, I would greet said donor and at the end thank them as well. Nobody may be around but me, and the deceased person, but doesnt mean I would show them any less respect than my live blood donors. If anything maybe more since it is the last selfless act of generosity and kindness for a stranger.
I'm just guessing here, but I think if there were a legal, regulated way for people to donate their bodies to be made into art projects, those types of artists would never run out of body parts to work with. I think there's probably more than enough folks who would love the idea of being made into art post mortem.
I'm a medical science student and was so glad to have the opportunity to go to the memorial ceremony for the donors to our anatomy laboratory - I think it's compulsory for the med students but not the rest of us (science, allied health, nursing etc). We don't know the donors' names or circumstances for privacy reasons, but their bodies give us a glimpse into the lives they lived - from the dust in their lungs to the paint on their nails - every physical feature is a reminder of who these bodies belong to. It is incredibly intimate, and the greatest privilege and responsibility. While I know that a degree of emotional distance is required to work in these fields, I don't understand how anybody could engage with donor bodies without being constantly reminded of their humanity. These stories are deeply horrifying.
Thank you, Caitlin, for poking your head up during your sabbatical. As all your videos, this was excellent, informative, and above all respectful of the dead. You have always had courage to stand up to corrupt practices. Thanks!
Caitlin. so glad you're fining all your voices!! My Mom was meant to donate her remains to Harvard. When she died in September of 2023, we were told she was "too big". They reeky left us in a scramble that night. All worked out as we had a death care professional we'd worked with before. My Mom's younger brother had donated his remains to Harvard a few years back. About four months ago, my cousin received a really lovely and thoughtful letter stating that the medical school was "fairly certain'. that our loved one's remains were not part/s in the scandal..so comforting!! Having lived in the shadow of Harvard for most of my life I can say they truly suck as an institution. Their scandals just keep piling up...
I’m genuinely asking this and I hope I’m not coming as weird or something but how can one be ‘too big’ for donation of their body? If nothing else the school should’ve rejoice as, and I’m saying this with all respect, your mother’s body would be a unique and valuable donation. This is so bizarre to me.
@@elif6908 I am a registered whole body donor in New Jersey. There are several conditions that must be met before the medical school accepts a body upon death, and they disclose this from the start when you apply to donate. You are also advised that family should be prepared to make alternate arrangements in advance in case the donation is rejected. The reasons a donation may be declined are: the school has exceeded its capacity for body donations; a height and weight that is beyond the range limits (includes being extremely overweight or being underweight); an infectious/communicable/transferable disease; inflammation, swelling, open/unhealed wounds, atrophy, decomposition, irregular positioning at the time of death; amputated limbs or recent surgery (within 6 months of death); been autopsied, embalmed, or provided a donation (other than corneas) to The Sharing Network.
@@elif6908 Depending on how much "too big" the body was... It could be a transport and like, storage situation. If the fridges/ freezers aren't big enough, they're not big enough. And well, I've seen some tv show docusoaps about morbidly obese people years ago, where they had to like tear out the window and get them outside with a crane so they could be taken to the hospital.
Just because behind the scenes people often get overlooked, I just wanted to take a moment and say that the editors/graphics guys (Andy on this video, Timothy on others) always make my day! As someone who was a hobby editor in my youth I always pay attention to the editing in videos, and Caitlin's videos are always excellent! Cheers guys! Keep it up!
I did a cadaver anatomy class with Gil Hedley and we treated the donors with the utmost of respect. It was a peak experience of my life. The wonder of the human body is endless. And so is the fantastic song at the end of this video :)
The University of Oklahoma Medical Center lost the body of my late wife somewhere between the ICU and the morgue. Had I not insisted on them locating her she may have been mistreated as a Jane Doe cadaver, for all I know. It took over 29 days. They resolved it by sending me-her grieving husband of 31 years-a gruesome death photo for me to identify.
I cannot recall if it was discussed in Caitlin's book From Here to Eternity or Smoke Gets in Your Eyes, about medical students writing letters to the donors' families to thank them for their loved one's contributions and desired to know more about their "first patient". Bringing a more humanity and dignity to how the students approach their cadavers. I thought that so sweet and touching.
I try not to judge a book by its cover but when the photo of the suspect came on screen I said to myself 'sometimes it really is the people you'd most expect'
we all have been positively impacted by people who donate their bodies to science, whether we know someone who has received donor organs personally or not. knowledge gained from these people’s final gifts have improved quality of life for everyone, and ignoring someone’s last wish to help people to make a quick buck is sickening :( thank you for covering this!
Cases like this is why I'll never purchase any kind of human specimen. I don't trust that I'd be able to rely on the providence. I'll stick to resin for my human skull needs.
And the fun part is, if you've ever had a brain scan for anything, you can use the files to make a 3D printout of your very own skull. Or if it's for a client, you could print out their skull!
Hello, friendly morbid groundhog! I read Smoke Gets in Your Eyes & Other Lessons from the Crematory at the end of October, after my aunt passed from COVID. I had bought it when she was hospitalized, & couldn't bring myself to pick it up until she was gone. It helped so much, & is now one of my favorite books. I love that Instagram will censor a nipple perceived too womanly so fast, but not people bragging about stolen body parts as merchandise???? What a world.
@@hardtogetnamehere Only female nipples are outlawed on insta, lads with their nips out is fine, so if the algorithm thinks you look like a woman your nipples are forbidden. I believe this is what the original commenter was referring to, and it's absolutely stupid. If bare skin isn't fine, outlaw the lad nip as well!
They have to get over any squeamishness, though. Not that a dead body is precisely like touching a live one, but it's more realistic than a computer program! @@Mike232-j2p
@mickeybarton9077 artificially created body parts can't recreate the multitude of issues found in once living humans. We're all unique and that means finding unique traits in body parts
When I heard about this I was disgusted but not surprised, sadly enough. My husband of 44 years passed on Dec 7th. I had him cremated, much to his mother’s chagrin. When I went to pick up the cremains, I actually thought, how do I know this is really him! He is now on a bookshelf in our bedroom waiting for spring to take him and scatter him in the mountains of Colorado. Between watching you and Kari, I am death positive. Thank you for educating me in things some people would rather not discuss.
It's so sad that we don't have more people willing to discuss death in this culture, too, because it will affect us all quite personally one day, whether you live alone on a deserted island or not. 😂
my mom did dentistry school in mexico in the 70s and the students had to go to the public mass graves, get a permit as a medical student, and hop in to HARVEST a certain amount of skulls/jaws for their schoolwork. donated bodies are ESSENTIAL for teaching medicine.
We had the same kind of affair in France few years ago at the University Paris-Descartes. Donated bodies were piled up, stored in improper conditions, eaten by mice, and some were sold... In a more joyful way, I'm really glad to find you back on RU-vid, your videos are so great and interesting.
YOU’RE BACK!!!! Love the new background setting. That being said, this is horrifying. Donated bodies should be treated with utmost respect. At present, we still need cadavers to teach and for research. This makes people less likely to donate, and who could blame them? Just sick and outrageous.
