Welcome back! In this video, we finish welding the 4V V10 heads, valve covers, coil covers, and cam caps. But with every step forward, we fall two steps back. Stay tuned for what's coming next! Hope you like the video!
I've had the same dream since 2017 when I bought my own #modmotormustang. Now to one-up them with a v12 boss 6.2 block with both 2v and 4V heads available.
I’m late to the party but why not use dowels? You could drill the oil passageways slightly oversized and use a press fit dowel between the two head pieces. You can do the same on the coolant passageway after you weld them up.
@@Blown460 I’m no machinist by any stretch but I’ve definitely got a few in the family. It’s always the simplest things that get overlooked in my opinion. It’s always easier to spot someone else’s mistakes after the fact as well. I like to keep at least one lazy person around on every project because they will find the lazy way to do anything you give them.
Dowels are good for connecting the flat surfaces of two whole/complete parts with each other. But trying to create a single part, maintaining a single flat surface with 2 pieces by using dowels is something way different. Drilling would have to be machine shop precise. The dowels would have to protrude a good distance and be press-fit tight between the heads. You'd need a press to force the two heads together. Only a machine shop would have a hope, and even then, very unlikely to achieve the flatness required relying on dowels. Press fit dowels would strengthen the connection of the two parts, but I wouldn't rely on them to locate the two parts into a single, perfectly flat surface.
When I seen the two head halves, the first thing that came to mind was to dowl the oil passages. It would have to be done in a machine shop where precision holes could be machined. This would help immensely in your quest to keep the heads aligned. This would also help in keeping oil out of the water. You guys are doing a killer job!
Tip: mineral spirits (or something equivalent) works MUCH better for leak checking.. Water is too viscous, has a lot of surface tension and won't make it through thin cracks and holes like a solvent (or coolant under pressure) will.
also a tip pre-heating and insulation and filler-rod size helps a lot, if not sure error on the smaller size and or get a cold-wire feeder setup going learn'd the hard way on steel/college classes and trying to be laziness* and or not burning my gloves smaller+steady-handed and higher speed's feels nicer than hugging and over sized rod etc anyways 👍for tip's on modified engine blocks and or head's need to work on my D8's/freanken-hemi iron combo, if i was more ambitious id try and do a doomsday-dodge v8
I admire the ambution behind this build but i think a lot more planning (and welding practice) would give this a better shot at successe. I dont see that bead with minimal prep (bevelling) holding up to the extreme heat cycling an engine sees. If joining cylinder heads by welding like, the castings should be beveled to full depth, yeah, its gonna make for a lot of cleanup/machining after. Filler material selection is critical to ensuring close expansion rates as well. As for cam alignment, i would have welded the bores or the cam towers to a smaller diameter so they could be align bored back to the correct bearing diameter after the head is full welded to ensure alignment
I was literally about to post the same thing after watching their videos.... Their ambition and skills are undeniable!!! But..... Like you said the preparation and cleaning of the heads should have been done prior to welding. I also thought they didn't bevelle deep enough for welding. With multiple heat cycles I think they will break apart unfortunately.... Maybe their next step would be to take their time make another good one. Unless they have them cast as a whole piece.
I had just “Found” your channel today when you got the V-10 running for the first time. CONGRATULATIONS. So being a ‘ol motor head who loves to work on cars and car engines, I started to watch from first video and just finished watching how you welded two pieces of heads together. Now THAT IS WILD. MUCH PROPS TO YOU GUYS. I’ll finish series tomarrow as it’s late now. CHEERS
Sorry I'm late. Great content, very unique!!. If you ever do another one where you join the heads.. For the oil passages(in the head), to prevent leaking and join the 2 pieces, I would have machined the holes open a few thousandths on both heads and used hollow dowels between each piece. For the water jackets I would have had a groove machined completely around the passage on both sides. Then use an appropriately sized round rubber gasket that would sit inside the groove when joined. Then would only have to weld the outside of the head. The doweled oil passages would line everything up to assemble too... Hope this makes sense.
If the heads end up a little warped from welding you could talk to a machine shop into line honing the cam caps . They do it on pushrod engines I don’t see why they couldn’t do it on these . Edit , I continued watching I saw that you guys came up with that plan anyways lol .
I would toss the cam caps and get late model ones from like mmr and have single caps on each tower. plus you could always have machine shop line bore the towers to make them straight after welding and use cap bearings.
Just discovered y’all’s channel today and I’ve been binging all the episodes. Subbed and hit the bell. This is no easy task y’all are tackling, but it’s definitely awesome.
I'm a year late to the party, your completion video popped up on my feed, then i heard what ya'll were doing, I had to watch it all before I heard the start up.
I'm in awe: 1- that you guys are trying this and 20 that it's working! I can't wait to see what happens! This is what happens when you don't listen to anyone else (or yourself for that matter) when they say it won't work; it isn't that simple. I am 100% rooting for you guys! New subscriber here!
Back in my FSAE days, the dude who was in charge of welding would heat up aluminum parts on a portable grill prior to TIG welding. I've also heard for castings, applying localized heat on the joint for additional heat up and to decelerate cool down after laying a weld down helps with warpage. Also, and this is hindsight for me as well, as there exists a clearance between the cam and its journals on the head, perhaps using a precision fit rod in place of the cam would have helped with the warping. So a rod that had an O.D. that is an exact match to the I.D. of the cam journals. To keep everything straight and honest. Oh, more hindsight, perhaps decking the block and two heads before welding them up. And precision decking the two heads at that to make sure they mate up exact. Bottom line though, this is an amazing project and you guys are doing a great job...! Kudos...! Ford back in the day would use laser welding for a job like this so the fact that you're tackling this at home is cool af.
Loving this build. I'm thinking with these heads you may have structural issues because the weld material just sits on top of the casings and there's not very much fusion with the underlying metal. For the cam covers it shouldn't be an issue but the heads may give you trouble down the line. the heads mostly just sit there and most of the strain is on the combustion chamber, but with heat cycles metal tends to fatigue and crack if it's really thin. I've seen this on cast iron quite a bit. Hopefully with the aluminum this will be more forgiving.
U r possibly correct. Probably needed 2 chamfer the welded surfaces 2 get the " Weld " further down in2 the Heads . Apart from that 4 young fella's they r going very very well & there thought process is sound . Hope they don't run in2 issues once they fire it up on the Dyno
Aluminum is WAY more forgiving than Cast when it comes to heat cycling. That's the main reason it's become more popular with engine manufacturers. "Back in the day" aluminum was expensive as it had limited availability. As to the welding, those weld should penetrate at least 1/8" into the parent material. Not sure what gas there were using, but if there were smart they'd have used Helium instead of Argon.
@@mikeford963 Thanks for the input. Something definitely wasn't right with their weld process if there's enough porosity that leaks form upon grinding. Might be the gas thing as you say. I've been taking notes on all of these videos of putting heads on engines they don't belong on. I have a dream to build a 300 i6 with some decent crossflow heads from a V8 application, so I'll definitely have to learn how to weld aluminum.
@@randr10 Bob Glidden did that back in the 70's using Cleveland heads. Another optoon might be to look into Barra heads from Australia. As to the porosity in the welds, that could simply be from the porous nature of metals in general. Aluminum is BAD for taking in oils causing issues with welding
@@mikeford963 Barra head wouldn't work on a 300. Bore spacing is .040" (4.08 vs 4.48"), difference plus the DOHC thing. I'd sooner import a whole Barra to swap in before doing that, which I think would also be cool. Maybe like an early '60s Falcon or Mustang for that one. I want the 300 for a truck motor. I was actually looking at specs and the bore spacing on 7.3 godzilla heads are only .005" bigger than the 300 (4.53" vs. 4.48"), they're aluminum, and they're a very good flowing canted valve head like the Cleveland heads are. When I'm ready to give this a try I might go in that direction if it's doable.
I know this video is old.. Being a bit experienced in welding cast aluminum- and with as much welding as you needed to do- the first thing to do would have been to bead/sand blast these heads- cast aluminum will test your patience to the absolute max. Super clean aluminum is the key and sometimes you have to weld, grind weld off then weld again to get a decent non porous weld. Also, preheat on aluminum will greatly help when welding thick to thin.
I just found your video. I have been a jack of all trades forever. I don’t know if it will work on aluminum but when I was working on diesel trucks, you may have a truck run hot and hairline crack it. Little seaps. Filled it with water and liquid glass. Sealed up like crazy. Found out that Cummins has done it for years.
I think I would’ve put the two heads together and put a piece of junk Kim voltage between them, a piece of manifold for the exhaust and intake to hold the heads together and then welded them together. Also keeping the ad surface affixed to something flat doing a couple small welds Around the circumference, and then rotating and adding more.
As for the cams you could just call comp cam they do v10 cam shafts just have them do two sets of 2v cams and have them put the all exhaust lobes on one side and all the intake lobes on the other side like a oem 4v cam.
We thought about doing that initially, but the difference is that this engine is even firing order, so the cams actually will need different lobe positions and profiles. We did call comp but they no longer do v10 cams and were not willing to make custom blanks for us, unfortunately. We have something in the works though, so stay tuned!
Holy shit. This isn't an easy project. Not run of the mill stuff. I'm just amazed that the channel isn't bigger. Great content. I'm following. Beats the hoonigan shit 100-0. What chassis you're gonna use?
Great job on the build. I'm glad someone decided to tackle a progect like this. I think Ford passed over what could have been a great engine with a 4v V10. What was the purpose of blocking the water passage off between the sections of head? Seems like you could have used a sealant between the sections and welded the outside edges to maintain coolant flow. Also, how are you going to figure out how the two pieces of camshaft need to be clocked for the firing order?
We had to seal off the water passages to prevent water from mixing with the oil. We have no way to ensure a sealant would completely seal out water pressure and we can only weld around the perimeter of the head. So, to be safe we chose to block them off and run external water lines to feed both sides of the head. For the camshafts, our Plan A is to have custom cams ground. This will be built to the V10 firing order. We will then have to time the camshafts using a degree wheel and valve events.
@@biy_buildityourself for sure! Btw I’m not trying to down play the effort you put in, I know the hard part is planning when it comes to this! It paid off though it all went pretty smooth it seemed like
That’s not a bad idea! We may try it next we run into a same issue! We tried using low temp aluminum weld rod but didn’t like the results so we decided to just weld plates.
Excellent work gentlemen! New to the channel and have a few questions; were the block deck & heads machined flat prior to welding the heads, any thoughts with respect to the head bolt holes between the sections-sleeve the hole to add strength? I'm sure your welds are sufficient, however for added insurance, would sleeving the oil passages be an option? Good luck with the build!!!!!!!!!!!!!
All machine work we did on the heads was after welding. We weren't too concerned with the bolt area due to seeing some other cut head builds not even welding the heads together (I think it was an LS head 300 Ford drag car). You could sleeve the oil passages, but it would be difficult to seal the sleeve to the passage I would think. Thank you!
What has me wondering is how your going to do the cams ??? Figuring out how that timing works is going to be interesting !!! Then there's the heat treatment ??? Custom cams are way too insane in price !!!
I was a tech at an aerospace and military defense contractor for a decade and I've been building and fixing broken engines for some 50 years. As a Senior with a ton of experience doing a LOT of different things, there is a certain beauty to not having a clue as to what you're doing, proper processes to achieve the goals, but just diving in head first anyway.
Your welding experience will be much much nicer if you really clean the area with a stainless wire wheel and fresh scotchbrite. That goes for all tig but double so on gungy alloy like that. Get it clean and shiny!
how is coolant going to transfer through the new head when 2 of the cylinders are blocked from receiving it? and it is blocking the cooland from making its full loop around the heads to get back to the radiator so im wondering how they solve this problem.
Welding the valve covers sure, but I dunno bout welding the heads, especially the way you guys did it, probably would have been cheaper and certainly better to just have a set of billet heads made. Cutting up 4 cyl heads for what is likely a worse product...
@@biy_buildityourselffrom what you’re saying it actually sounds like heat won’t be much of an issue. I don’t know of any other engine that cools the front and back of the engine separately, but I would assume it would make it very easy to keep the heat in check!
We will run external water lines to feed the back side of the heads. We’ll use the ports on the back of the heads or the ones on the side of the intake. Whichever ends up being the easiest to run water lines to.
@@biy_buildityourself It looks to me like the head gasket feeds water from the block up to the rear end of the heads first, wouldn't you have to grab water then between cylinders four and nine?
@@philwishart5833 aha! That’s actually what we’re working on for this next video. Cooling system! You’ll see soon enough but we definitely thought about air entrapment and we came up with a pretty neat solution 😬
What would be Super Cool 😎 Money 💰 🤑 💸 🤔 permitted would be 2 take ur welded heads 2 a Shop that Does " Billett Heads " & ur problems would be Solved . U might have 2 sell everything u own 2 do it . But would be Awesome.
@@Robert-mn8gc I mean, not sure if he'd take a job like this, ever, but, having watched his videos, I'm pretty sure the guy can make a head for this thing...
Yeah, that would have worked to align the heads while welding as well. You can watch us use the V10 cam to measure the rotation torque after line boring the heads in the next vid of the series! 😁
Like every video on RU-vid. There will always be the Should of, Could of, Would have comments ??? The best thing I Like about your videos is. You just get it done. The thought is there to make it happen regardless. It's only a shame your channel isn't more popular ?? But, there are some good things about that. When you become more popular, you need to deal with a larger percentage of idiot comments from those who think they know better ??? Thanks for taking the time to make and edit these video's. What a lot of people don't realise is ?? It's actually more work making the video's than doing job 👍👍
lets put this in my Motor coach and ill tell you hoe she does, currently I can't merge or pass to save my life, not to mention we've already spent 5k+ on a BANKS power pad system, I need more HP. 2014 Forest River Georgetown, 34FT, Class A, moving about 20k pounds.
The only insurmountable problem I see is the choice of absolutely poxy music in the background annoyingly barging itself into the foreground. Edit: nearly made it 2/3 way through but unfortunately had to tap out :(
The v8 mod motor is the only engine in history to run in every day cars and in Promod racing. Now with such a long stroke to bore size is not optimum , the head flow made up for it in power. The v10 definitely helps with cubic inches and the smaller bores but I think the ultimate engine would be a big bore like a 4.2 inch bore to the same stroke block with 4 valve heads. You would need to redesign the whole engine and heads though and that would be very expensive.
