Here Is Why The Horten 229 Is Garbage In Air RB 

Yeah, but still, nothing beats the experience of me having one of my first matches in the P-51H a few years ago, when I flew past a Ho 229 going the opposite direction, not really thinking much about it except for "it's a jet, I can get away before he turns around", immediately looked behind me to see where the 229 went, and he was already turned around and shot me down. Absolutely shocked, it's stuck with me to this day.

Hmm, this seems familiar... Some commenter on my Horten video straight up tried to tell me its a good energy fighter. It took me every ounce of my self-control to not tell them they're insane.

Well, the best thing is when you actually manage to hit and all you land is "incendiary", which basically is armor piercing, because at longer ranges it does absolutely no damage and doesn't explode like a shell filled to the brim with incendiary-explosive (yes, Barium Nitrate 50/50 with Al-Mg does explode with quite some power when you set it off in an enclosed container).

Ground RB ruined this plane, It was too damn good at killing from top down and pulling out. Back then it had a full belt of HVAP ammo, and the guns had no spread to them. I think over the course of a year in 2016/17, every update made the plane worse and worse, from 1/2 hvap and added spread to like 1/4 hvap belts and shotgun spread

As someone with 1332 matches and 1504 kills in the Ho 229 with 1331 of those matches and 1502 of those kills pre patch 1.91, I can say with utmost certainty that when 1.91 dropped, the Ho 229 became the most painful aircraft in the game both to fly and to think about. They nerfed the already barely usable roll rate, and the maneuvering and vertical energy retention that patch. However, this change was never announced in the patch notes. Towards the end of my time with that aircraft I started getting regular aces and 6-7 kill matches with a notable handful of 8 kill matches in air RB. I really loved that plane. It was the reason I started playing War Thunder in the first place. The last match I played in that thing was day 1 of patch 1.91, being September 11, 2019, on the Normandy air map starting from the west spawn. I got my last 2 kills in it being an F8F-1B and an F-89, and decided I was done with the Ho 229. That was when I decided to start investing more time into more worthwhile aircraft like the He 162 and Ki-83. Two and a half years later, I am still waiting for them to make the Ho 229 fully usable again. If they can make negative changes to the Ho 229 without substantiating their decisions and citing sources, they can make positive changes without substantiating their decisions and citing sources. One can hope.

the problem with the ho you always have to contend with/ compensate for is that it cannot retain any energy when you put it into a normal bank and turn maneuver. Having played this plane for a quite a while and gotten ace qualification for free with it, this flaw will kill you 90% of the time(the other 10% being having no roll rate). I feel like the best way to use this plane is actually to almost never turn in it, despite how good of a turn it has on paper. B&Z all day and when the shit hits the fan hit the panic button and out-turn everything. None of this will help with the guns being ass though :P

I was a Ho229 main at 7.0 when i still played Air RB and i must agree with everything said in this video, yes it can out turn almost everything at its BR, it can out accelerate quite some planes when zooming out, its cannon do quite a punch when it hit something, the thing is, for everything said before and more, you have to think 2, sometimes 3 steps ahead of your enemy when, with other plane, you would just react to him, just because you dont have a rudder, i can somewhat ignore the low rate of fire of this thing because when it hits something right it is reduced to ashes, but the lack of rudder is really a pain. Nowadays i just use it to have some fun because it is unique, it is my Maus at air combat, except it is not outside of the main tree yet.

He ammo just doesn't do enough damage to planes. It makes no sense that armour piercing ammo in a lot of cases is better than belts which are specifically designed to fight planes

This is one of the coolest looking planes I've ever seen

The 229 is a beast in sim. It flies perfectly normal when the instructor is out of the equation. Same thing with the P-51s.

I remember seeing videos back in like 2014-2016 about just how insane this thing was. About half ago I decided to play Germany again and get the Ho229 expecting that insanity still, especially being that i was still fresh from a long break from the game. I just thought i was bad at flying this thing lmao also i think they recently nerfed the pen on its cannons so that thew me off for when i use it as cas

If you want to get your guns on target with the Horton after your first turn you have to absolutely predict your enemy and roll there before he gets there, it's incredibly hard and requires a lot of practice and a bit of luck but it's doable because most of players do the same maneuvers over and over again . And the low rate of fire an inaccuracie is something you can get used to but till then it's absolutely painful.

I would like to mention that, according to the protection analysis, half of your shots (tracerless HE iirc) have a muzzle velocity on the 500s m/s I thought this could be just a wrong number but I did some long range shooting in the test flight and I think it is actually correct And thats on top of it having the spread of a shotgun and being impossible to aim due to the lack of a rudder

I initially had big problems with the roll-rate of the Typhoon Mk1b/L, and it took a fair while before my noob self understood a workaround. But GOOOOOLLLLLY am I never gonna play the Ho 229 with THAT roll-rate

can totally relate to your review... spaded this thing in air rb, but it was frustrating. i really tried to like the plane, as it looks awesome, its a beautiful plane. but the rudder nerf from gaijin put this thing in trash tier for air superiority. you also cant hunt bombers, u are a massive target, which is hard to miss, and when ur wing gets damage, your flight control is basically trashed, as you suddenly have a strong rudder which always steers in one direction^^. the funny thing to know: the original had smaller airbrakes in the wings, that should work as rudder, but gaijin has not modelled them. i also can not feel the rudder, when trying, so i guess they forgot about it^^ i then tried to use it in ground rb, as the gun offer some penetration, and the thing can make circles over the battlefield. that works kind of. but as u are a massive target, and u get slow fast, when doing that. if u get an only semi decent AA driver on the enemy team, u are basically doomed... after those experiments i never took it out again, but i still think the model looks adorable, really nice design from mr. horten. and i also got a learning out from the horten, i really had to work on my alignment of my wings to the enemies flight path, which made me a less sloppy pilot in other aircrafts as well

6:55 that maneuver was pretty cool not gonna lie how much of a difference would having even a small rudder/vertical stabilizer have on the aircraft's top speed, if they really wanted it to be as fast as possible they probably would have also given it less wing area too, i dont know much about the ho229 outside of war thunder, but i always thought that the plane would be significantly better if they put a small rudder in between the engines and then clipped the wings a bit

My favourite maneuver kill in WT was I had about 6 people chasing my 229 in an air AB match, I flew straight towards a mountain, waited to the last second, pulled a 32G turn, two people saw it coming and turned away, and the other 4 flew face first into the mountain. One of the funniest things I have ever seen.

I actually quite enjoy the Horten 229, even back when it could face 8.3 sabres and Mig-15's. Idk why, but I did.

I'd love to see this thing with the same all-HVAP belts it had when first added. It'd at least make it better for ground RB lol

I have maybe about 10H on Ho 229 but easily one of best statistics that i have with planes in WT , Tho it is extremly slow i would like for it to recive a slight and only a slight boost to it's engines and it's going to be perfect ! Guns are not an issue for me now u just get just to it and they absolutely decimate everything they touch and never sparks

The design of this fighter was solely based upon speed, the actual design was to be used for the „America Bomber“ project which would have had 6 BMW turbo jets, and was to carry a nuclear bomb and deliver it on New York. The fighter version was to have been given different weapons and there was the night fighter version with 2 crew members, all planned but never built

Sad to hear how much its fallen but glad to see you made a video on this boomerang at least, more content to watch

I bought a talisman for the HO-229 when just before it got moved to 7.3 (I think this happened 2 years ago?). Back then I loved this, now I hate it.

The Ho-229 used to be a hidden gem for a player that knew how to play it circa 2018/2019. I felt invincible in it, I knew I could outfly anything and I would only die if a made a mistake, and even if I did make a mistake there was a high chance I could get out of it. I could even get used to the guns, I was damn good with them even. Then it’s flight model changed, and they introduced that premium American jet with the rockets. I don’t play it anymore, it is garbage now.

Flying wings in general have great potential but it doesn’t work out due to the details it has to work around.

Thank you for making this video I agree on all points this thing needs to go down in br or have some balancing tweaks to make it playable by people who aren't reincarnations of Ace combat pilots

Have you ever played the MB.5, it's decent once it has alt but it's sometimes just plain painful to play it's supposed to be a "fighter"

Personally what i hate the most about the Ho-229 is the artifically bad dispersion. Like yeah, you finally maged to get your nose on that Su-11 and then nothing happens because your rounds miss. From 200m. Like seriously guys, try to fly it with stock guns, it is a pain. But just in general, german ww2 jets are trash since you face mostly cold war jets that are 200-300km/h faster, and can have fucking Air to Air guided missiles. Now i just grinded the F-86 and club 262's. That is just alot more fun than flying 262's.

Would love to see a Ki-83 video. I'm about to finish the grind on it and your take on the plane would be awesome :)

The first jet i wanted to unlock was the Ho-229.once i had got the jet i immediately went into a game and seen how the turn, and thr lack of being able to propely aim made it hard to use. However i kept playing the 229, ans to this day i am able to hold my own against a few top tier jets (if they dont carry missles). She is a animal when you learn how to use her for what she good for. Piece og advice go for bombers first, then dive hard.

I'd be interested in you flying a P-47N.... For me its the most frustrating thunderbolt

I found your channel yesterday and wondered why there was no Horten video, now there is a Horten video. Simulation moment.

Wooo thanks for doing the Horton video!

"Please shove it in right now." - DEFYN

I wouldn't mind an updated version of this to come out. Updated engines, upgraded material used, ect. Bet it would do pretty well.

i sort of wish some rich guys just decide to rebuild these ww2 aircraft that the germans made late war in a manner that it would be like the projects had enough resources and time to be what they were actually supposed to be instead of some wood and whatever engine they could have grabbed

As I have flown this Dorito plane a lot back then, I know your pain

That last fight at the end made my soul hurt

See joe all nekst week!! :D haha brilliante videos maat.. :>

I'd like to see what you think of the F3D. SeekerHead straight up said it was garbo, but I value your opinion on low tier jets more than his, mostly because he claims it's ass.

The ho229 isnt great. But it is far more fun then the 262. You really just need to side climb and play as a support. Its guns are really really hard to aim yes but after 50 games with it I started to actually be able to aim them well and ended with a 2.5 k/d in it by the time I got the Gr 91

the title should be "pain pantsu"

Switching to mouse joystick and using roll and rudder on the same X axis helps at high speed.

I recently got a talisman for the F-80A-5 to grind out my jets and holy crap 7.0 USA teams are bad. All A2D-1's that don't know how to use it properly and B29's now that the repair cost was reduced. It's just loss after loss, so frustrating.

its surprisingly op if you only turn as much as you need to and seperate your fight or stall after one long enough to regain energy

The last fight I almost break my keyboard and I'm not even playing 229

What would you recommend as a grinder for early German jets? Are any of the tt options up to the mig 15 bis even worth considering?

The technology to accomplish what the Horton brothers were going for in this jet just wasn't there yet.

1:55 yes, mouse control in War Thunder is extremely rudder dependant, which this plane basically lacks

What's your opinion on the Yak-3 VK107?

IVE BEEN WAITING FOR THIS VIDEO. And now I’m really ducking sad

I can deal with the speed bleed and finnicky guns...but that roll and lack of rudder just ruins the plane x_x

The Ho-229 is actually a really good ground attack plane in groun RB. Because it has a low rate of fire and 90 mm penetration with its 30 mms, it can be used against basically any target, and you have almost endless ammo. And if a fighter spawns, theyre usually a prop so its really easy to kill them.

Like the part when Defyn says "guns are very inaccurate" and then guns all over the place

The ho 229s guns have been fixed now. What do you think of it now

I used to fly the Ho229 before the F89 D was introduced. It was good then. But one day I came and the sky was black because there were 8x F89 D constantly spamming their proxy rockets everywhere. Then the spam died off but some other cold war jets were downtiered and it just stopped being fun.

hi i have a question about the premium draken the 9.7 one in u vid it looked lie u had tracers in ur belts which i do not have. im having a real hard time trying to learn how to aim

so I don't know if this is a glitch or something but when I play the Horten it crashes my game and it only the horten

what other geman jet would u recomend for starting?

This thing is the most badass-looking jet of all time.

Hm, pretty sure this is my most played aircraft, that and the 152 C-3. It was my first jet. It was the plane I saw and went "Yes! That one. That's my jet" When I was still starting out with reserve planes. Pretty sure it was the first jet I ever spaded too. (And I mean completely free, not rushing things with eagles). Think I'll take the ol' boy out just a few more times.

IIRC the guns and ammo were nerfed ~3 years ago due to incessant whining of RB tankers I mean let's be real, the whole game is utter garbage at this point

Wow it's so rare that I see Defyn complaint so much, a shame really how the plane performs, I'm still a low tier pilot and was hoping to grind the german TT but now I fell a bit bummed. Nevertheless still great content man, i love it. Edit: My horrendous typos.

for practice i used the ju-87 G-2 both have op cannons and slow fir rate

I wouldn't go so far as to claim the historical Gotha Ho 229 was garbage. After all, it was still unproven, having crashed on its third test flight. What we do know from the first prototype's short life, was that it appeared to be underpowered. The Reimar Brothers counted upon utilizing the upcoming Heinkel 003S turbojet, which promised 3,000-lbs thrust. But the Heinkel turbojet continued to display technical development bugs and so the Reimar Brothers had to settle for the Junkers Jumo 004A turbojet, which provided only 1,980-lbs thrust. This was far less than what the Ho 229 design called for. Nonetheless, the Reimar Brothers, as it turned out were lucky to just even get their hands on a pair of the Jumo 004A turbojets. During the third test flight, as test pilot, Lieutenant Ziller brought his Ho 229 down for the landing, one of the 004A turbojets cut out. Normally this is dangerous for any twin-engine aircraft. If the aircraft has powerful engines an experienced pilot will pour on the thrust for the remaining engine and attempt the landing or go around for another landing pass. In LT Ziller's case, the wing of the Ho 229 dipped precipitously. This was a clear sign the aircraft was underpowered. The Ho 229 stalled and crashed. In the early days of turbojets, advancing the throttle had to be done slowly, to prevent burn-out. Ziller was out of options and out of luck. The entire prototype was lost along with LT Ziller. Had the Ho 229 been equipped with the two, promised Heinkel turbojet engines, providing a total 6,000-lbs thrust, the outcome might have been far different than the two Jumo 004A turbojets providing only some 4,000-lbs thrust, a huge difference. And with one 004A cut out, the Ho 229 couldn't fly on a mere 1,980-lbs thrust, which was probably lower as Ziller had to reduce thrust on both engines for the landing descent. In 20/20 hindsight, the underpowered Ho 229 prototype was a disaster waiting to happen, which it did.

Intro, ideal situation and then straight pain

Can you do the Yak 3 VK 107?

Haha good to hear me struggling with the su9 isn't that uncommon, thank god i have it spaded already and can enjoy the LUDICROUS SPEED of the La-200. Also La-200 video when, it's honestly very overlooked from what I've seen

I remember dogfighting some Mig with it, some russian jet. We flew spirals and loopings around each other, corkscrewing upwards through the clouds. Finally I beat him, but he fell down into me. This angelic dance is something I will never forget.

I wonder if it would’ve been better if it was fighting aircraft around when it was built?

Funny, after starting out with jets in the 262 I was like "How does anybody have fun in the this pile of garbage?" Then I got the 229 and I was actually having fun. Sure, the lack of rudder is immensely annoying but the instantaneous pull and ability to pretty much flip around in place is really fun. With the 262 and the low velocity guns I have a hard time getting a gun solution because it just lacks the AOA. With the 229 AOA isn't an issue. With the 262 I feel like I'm always at a disadvantage because it just doesn't pull, the velocity of the guns is so shit that I have to lead so much that I run into AOA limit and the acceleration is pretty much not there. The 229 has far better acceleration than the 262, better climb and higher velocity guns. Over all I had way more fun in the 229 than in any 262, that includes the 262-C1 and 262-C2b, which are the same 7.0 shit brick just with more thrust at higher BR. Gah, fuck the 262 I have so much dislike for that flying boat.

This thing is great in Ground RB. Ground and pound is fun and has good range for its cannons. And seems like most people dont know how to dog fight in Ground RB so it has a decent chance.

Finally the best rolling plane! G 91-R1 the Needle Shooter is even worse. I call it the assist killing machine.

You are right on people not playing br around 7. Currently I am grinding the Ho 229 just to add it to unlocked planes. My goal is to get top tier jets. I am only playing around 5.7 to 6.0 br tops, because having stock me262 vs other jets in battles with around 6 people is not fun. Also the repairs are expensive. I much rather prefer to play around 6.0 br or ideally just use my 4.3 bf 109s to grind xp and sealclub than be stomped in high tier battle by some premium in my stock plane.

Mirage F1/J-7E/8 re-review? Especially interested in how the J-7E does now with the massively changed PL-5Bs, they pull harder and don't accelerate too fast anymore.

"I know I say this all the time but I found my new most hated plane" Defyn. My spirit animal, speaking my truths. I also keep finding planes I fucking hate, and having to go back to my only loves.

NAAAAH, it's not so bad. Just played my first match in 2 years with it (after watching this video) and I almost got 4 kills - sadly my team was dead, so I got swarmed from behind just before the 4-th. How it works for me : - I go for the attackers at the start (at about 500m) rather than climb, thus drawing some enemies and forcing them to turn with me on the deck level. I've dealt with up to 3 guys jumping on me - multiple times. This was my first jet and I even used to play it with the stealth belts somehow. Still love it :D I play the G.91 almost the same way, but with a shallow 8 degree climb from the start for more energy, and trying not to solo more than one enemy like in the 229.

babe wake up new defyn video

Not having a rudder is the most painful thing .

what decal is on your wing tip?

OMG, I disagree with your assessment. it just flies differently, and you don't reduce your throttle in tight turns. It would improve your turn rate by 40%, at least. Throttle down and throttle up with flaps engaged during up close dogfights.

Hey can you review the f2h-2?

Ho ho a rant video, a treat

SAAB 105G is even sadder than the ÖE since it can't carry gunpods + AIM-9B, only one of the two.

yo Defyn your discord server invite link doesnt work pls fix

Can you make a vid on the sk60? It seems really hard to use but interesting potential

When i see horten in air rb: Hey, this is not Ground RB🤣

That thing looks like a flying stingray!!

Played with joystick it is piece of cake, you can choose the amount of energy bleeded

"oh wow! What a cool looking plane. Im going to research it right away!"-me before i flew this plane

I jist got the horton yesterday and it is pretty solid so far. Im averaging around 2 kills per game which is decent

Ya; it isn't a fighter to tangle with other fighters it is for shooting down bombers that do not require a lot of areobatics. To disengage from fighters it had superior speed. It did have the ability to drop bombs; not that important. The problem with superior fighter jets in Germany was Hitler; who didn't want to use them. Galand had to beg to use 2 wings of Me 262s as fighters. Had the 600+ Me 262s been used in concert instead of the fuel for the battle of the bulge ; they might have stopped allied day bombing and possibly later night bombing; but then - they probably would have been introducted to the Abomb.

This thing requires skill and a lot of familiarity.

As someone who would be a Japanese main if it weren’t for heavy amounts of American bias I see the HO229 as my go to jet (even if I haven’t unlocked it yet) It’s just like a zero. The only difference is that you will eventually catch up if you are chasing an opponent.

He says that the plane is bad and yet he makes such tremendous professional moves that anyone forgets what he says and runs out to buy it xD

3:30 caught me off guard😂

Welp i never play air rb so i ain't got much to worry bout there, the Horton Ho is really nice as an anti cas for ground rb. The poor fire rate is more then made up for by the damage the he shells can do and the anti tank rounds shred medium tanks. I usually only struggle with the thick bois

Don't insult my flying dorito like that.

what if it had a vulcan?

12:41 insane drift