I feel like what many people who are against combo scaling removal misunderstand is the fact that FCs don't get devalued at all. The only change is that now it's possible for plays that prove a certain performance level to also grant PP without the necessity of the play being an FC.
@seanscott1308 An FC will always be worth more than a missed play. Besides it's all progression. You can farm all you want but you still need to improve your scores to get the most pp
@@Loooksee When improving a score to an FC goes from very valuable to kinda valuable, fc's have been devalued. I get what you're saying, but the above is still true. Edit: To the people replying. It's 100% reasonable to think FC's should be devalued! But be consistent/honest about it
@@seanscott1308A 99.90% acc S rank play being half the pp because of a single singlebreak in the middle is stupid, combo scaling removal fixes that issue
The amount of scores that I have gotten that were wayyyy better than others, but rewarded less pp, because I got a 1 miss in the middle of the map, instead of a 3 miss at the start is just stupid. Good change.
Who told that "developers said it's a bad idea" this is straight up lie the idea is not bad, this is just not possible to implement globally, but it could work in the local space where you have all replays available
Quaver is able to detect which parts of the map are more difficult based on amount of notes in a section and duals and triples. I feel like osu could incorporate that to some degree and take fail points to make misses more or less impactful depending on the section of the map.
that honestly makes no sense to me especially if we're getting rid of combo scaling. why should misses be treated differently depending of when they occured? if you shitmiss you should take the L because you skill-issued.
3:20 this is what the mania pp system does, im like 20k rank on mania and i would set 200 pp scores like on any map that allows it . However many of those maps game the difficulty system so hopefully something like that doesnt happen, its a lot easier to make farmy maps on mania than it is on Standard.
the only problem i have with mania is that farm maps are either jumptrill spam to inflate the star rating and pp gain or just stupid tap lns that also inflate pp while being extremely easy, if the mania pp system adds some like form of checking pattern difficulty like quaver does it'd be perfect
there's another big problem with mania tho : one of the main factor of pp calculation is note density, not patterns, which means jumptrills, double trills, hammerjacks, etc... gets HEAVILY inflated versus pattern that could be just as hard but with less density like LN walls or LN+trills tech edit : just realized that's what you were talking just above lol, i generalized it
The thing i hate most about osu! Mania's pp canculations is the fact that there isnt any factor towards a patterns awkwardness because it only takes density and ln is of course so overpowered
Combo scaling is why i never took osu standard seriously and just played it for fun. Instead went in mania and got to 4 digits since you actually get pp even if its not an FC, it accounts your overall score amd accuracy (its on score v2 as well basically). Grinding mania was actually fun.
i love playing maps that are absolutely at my limit because i like getting better but i also like seeing pp grow so sometimes i got to easier maps that i can fc so this would let me do both
Some of ed's ideas are really sick and i love them, i just wish the other game modes got this kind of love, its just a whole nother level with osu std which is understandable
As a person who plays various rhythm games this change was like even fundamental and had to be done just so much before, but only osu players now realize that performance is something "perform" continuously, even if made a miss along the way. The majority of rhythm games scales their maps that way, so combo still matters but not that much so acc is actually relevant. Heck, its even shown on other osu modes that i do believe it wasnt done before just bc the code was so messy to come with an answer before or people just were proclaiming osu is built diferent or some kind of incomprehensible thoughts around it. This change is the for the best for a RHYTHM GAME 🤷🏻♂️
I am pro this change but I also agree if you miss on a difficult part (or hit a difficult part) you should be rewarded and everyone is saying we don't have the realtime computation power to achieve this but do we really need it? Go to any map on the osu website and you'll see a "points of failure" graph along with a success rate, the points of failures should be able to be assigned to certain time sections of the map. Can't we use this to dynamically update scores. (Yes I know your score changing months after setting it is a problem but this is to prevent people trying to ramp up a point of failure on an easy part of the song in it's infancy to game that system). If you miss on a high point of failure section pp won't be affected as much, and if you fc that section you get a boost of pp like you'd expect. I don't know how hard this would be to impliment but it sounds possible at the very least?
it'd be horrible to implement, because the points of failure change over time and for example, on a newly ranked map, there's no points of failure or they're all over the place. this way the servers would need to update ALL the scores for ALL the users on a daily basis, which requires way too much computation power. it's way easier and cheaper to do the math required to find out what objectively is the hard and easy parts instead of relying on people, which are not perfectly consistent like math is
5:40 a more accurate system would be for only accuracy, aim and speed (maybe ur) to matter for pp. However, if you take off combo, all maps would need to lose like 20-40~% of their pp (12 star to 10 star), because it would be WAY easier to get excellent plays. The system I am talking about is basically adding mania's system to the game (also, misses mattering less on diff spikes would be cool).
A good way to do this would be to see the avg accuracy of every 100pp until 1.2k where 1.2k+ should be used instead with the top 5 pp plays of the game being the 40% cut
Mental is important for the game. If they remove the mental regarding combo the game is less fun and challenging. It's good for PP but not for the feeling of achievement.
@@Harufloof imo thats wrong. if i get a 1miss in the middle of the map but SS the rest i get shit pp for that play but its still a very good play. that should be rewarded accordingly but the way it is now its that this play will give shit pp compared to what it should be worth becuase if you miss in the middle of the map the max combo you have can only be half at most. and since you still get way more pp for the actual FC or SS in that case theres still a feeling of accomplishment in both cases since a SS or even just an FC is still gonna be a way nicer accomplishment since you played the map perfectly in those cases. the whole point is just that those 1 miss cases are gonna be valued more appropiately while FCs and SS ranks still being the kings of pp and accomplishment
I think combo scaling should exist to an extend. I dont think combo scaling should outright determine if a score is worthless or not but getting rid of it entirely is just weird to me. Like take a map with lets say 900 combo. 2 players get 2 misses each. Player 1: Misses after 600 combo twice so he has a 600 and a 298 combo Player 2: misses after every 300 combos meaning he has a 300, another 300 and a 298 combo Both plays would be worth the same, this makes no sense.
so basically, if you are at peak physical fitness, it shoudn't matter which track you run on, your lap times should be very similar every time you go for a run. idk why ive equated osu to real exercise no osu player will know what it means 💀
If i can consistently pull 300x3 on deadlift in an ideal scenario, i should always pull around the same reps per set. And siimilar to it, fatigue setting in will make those numbers drop just like sloppy technique in tapping with Osu.
oh please, I had to run the mile like everyone else in USA highschool, I know what a track is. If your analogy translated to osu!: Maps would have a scrollrate that scaled with the rate at which you played any given map, that is not the case. For runners, each track has varying lengths and difficulty to run and the ones running the track determine the rate at which they complete the track, not the track itself. In osu!: Each map has a set length and difficulty with no-mod, dt and ht. That does not change, each player is playing the map at the same rate with each respective speed-mod. This is more like, if you were in a fitness-competition and each participant was rewarded with points relative to the difficulty of each exercise/workout, it doesn't matter if you deadlifted 600kg once, or if you deadlifted 300kg four times *assuming these are of comparable difficulty, I really had no idea, I'm guessing*, they would each give you the same amount of points.
so he finally sees the point and realized he was wrong. thank god. the video where he talked about mrekks play was making more irritated than it should have.
I may be dumb, but I really dont understand why these systems have to be so complicated in osu! Why not just have : Hit note good, get points :D Hit note less good, get less points :| Don't hit note, no points :c And then value of the note is just a set max score (like 1M) divided by total number of notes. Like a map with 1000 notes would be 1000pts/note, and like 500pts for a 100, and 200pts for a 50 Rewards accuracy, don't penalize low number of misses as much (which encourages player to try harder maps) And then, when a "meta" is discovered or anything, you "just" have to change the star system to lower the diff rating of the concerned patterns, simplifying the work of devs and allowing for faster updates. Like, do we really have to consider all of these parameters when games like Quaver (or even just o!m) have good enough point/ranking systems that are way easier to understand ?
I think it's good that the combo scaling is getting removed. It sucks if i have 1 miss half way through the map and the run is over. But osu is still a rhythm game. I don't wanna see players farming 12 star maps with 15 misses, even if the score is just as hard to get as a 10 star full combo. Full combo or 1 miss should still give more pp, even if the difficulty is the same as a higher star map with more misses.
I like to look at this rework as them simply adding support for players like me; players who just don't want to play for FCs. I have a friend who's currently nearly 4x my rank, but if you ask them they'll say I'm a better player, now why is this? Because they play for FCs and I don't, that's the only difference.
I feel like with the idea of having a weekly/daily song you could make it so that it has a random mod/mods combination each time to test different skill sets. Also you could make it so every X weeks/months if you reach X score/% each time in your range you could get a free month of supporter to help more people see the benefits of supporter and maybe get it or for people that don't have the financial status to get it
Manias system is 100% acc based, miss count and combo don't affect anything (besides the acc you lose due to missing). This system is closer to what taiko has, where combo doesn't matter but missing will reduce the pp
I know this is not btmc's channel, but if this message somehow gets to him, could him please add ranks like league of legends to this matchmaking project he wants to create? I really hate having to say a number to say my rank, I'd much rather say like "I'm Diamond III" istead of "well erm i'm ranked number 120k in the world"
Imo we shouldn't remove combo scaling entirely but instead nerf it because the concept of 'it doesn't matter where you miss but how many miss' rewards too much pp, this rework feel like a participant trophies giving pp to everyone to make them feel better. all thing considered. I still like this rework but just prepared for pp inflation guyss
I actually agree with ed where misses should be punished more, people saying people think fc will get devalued is why they are against combo scaling removal is wrong(edit:ok maybe wrong is a strong statement but still missing the point), it sucks to see he didn't stood his ground and kinda got pressured, pp system should be top heavy, mrekk 11 miss on a map should kill the play, since if combo scaling is applied and he misses 11 times in a row on the very end, HE DIES
why just copy paste what willy said without even reading what i said, 1300 is not a dead play, 50% isnt dead, if he got full combo on the map and missed the last 11 notes he gets ZERO cause he DIES
Pp should be rewarding one's skill, forcing the plays to be fcs for pp gaining is not really rewarding but rather forcing the person to keep retrying or giving up as if this is something worth defending/supporting.
@@theny3631 no man, im not even against combo scaling, what kinda reading comprehension is going on in here, english also isnt my first language but im pretty sure ive said everything clearly here, im saying 11 miss shouldn't give 50% of the total pp at all, like i agree with eds first take that 1300 on 11 miss is stupid again not reading my comment
