I like how both are beast at halos, but Issei is really dominating winning r16 twice and winning seven to smoke at IBE 2013 not to only consider he is only 16. Props to Hong 10 too, the ground power legend.
i really like the system, im sure in the future it will still improves and develops. Bboying is becoming more like a sport. Maybe one day Olympics will have bboy competitions :)
Yeah 2005-2006 is my favorite Hong 10 as well lol. But the only problem with that Hong 10 back then was that he ran out of moves in just about EVERY battle he was in and ended up repeating the same halo freeze variations. At least this new Hong 10 has a way larger pool of new moves. I don't think he lost muscle (maybe he did). I just think he wanted to change his style.
i watched that little clip where hong 10 tried to recover from a crash at the end no matter how many times i look at it it will always look like a crash to me ... and i was actually rooting for hong 10
What you guys don't understand is that musicality doesn't contrast with powermoves at all. And "Dynamics" in this battle pretty much means power. Issei had musicality in his powermoves.
You just got to the point. Issei's job was crazy difficult and technical, but I really can't see how his originality and foundation overpassed hong 10's one. The kid is gonna be a mad beast, but I honestly don't think he shoulda won this battle here. Props to both, specially to Hong10, it sure has been rough to him...
I think hong 10 did good in this battle, a lot of people said that last few years hong 10 hasnt been doing so good but i think 2012 was a sign that he was coming back
i agree, i think sometimes ppl forget that hong 10 doesn't do power moves not because he can't but because he has moved beyond it, everyone can do those powermoves and he knows that but no one can do his moves i.e. hong 10 freezes
love to see the constant progresion in bboys. in 04 and 05 Cico and junior did straight power moves and won. Lilou came along and stepped it up with fresh moves. now we are getting complete Bboys like Lil g, born, and machine who have bee in the game for a while but push the envelope. Beat eaters who can powermove to the beat with clean foot work and originaitly.
How is the system flawed? The system itself doesn't magically select the right full winner, the judges do. What the system does, is provide transparency to see what the judges are looking at, and if they are doing a good job. So the system is doing what its supposed, the only problem is that some people in the community isn't, which is looking at the judges scores, agreeing or dissagreeing... and respecting the judges, the events, and all the hard work put in.
wow! love to see hong10 in the cypher once again. i thought it will take like, 2 years again. say, i don't know how this was judged but, hong10 killed the beat on 1:08 and fyi judges, 1:17 aint no crush. solid round 1 for hong10 imo. i think he did enough to win. no props to issei though. i just love watching hong10 vids period. hope to see more before he finally retires.
I beg to differ, Hong 10 is totally in the flow of the music, what i see is his footwork and groundwork is sync with the music in the 1st round , his footwork kept "the same tempo as the music" ; If you were saying hes NOT on beat in the second round, then please tune up your speaker's volume, and listen to the bongo beat behind the music. I respect judge's decision, but I don't think musicality cause Hong 10 lose. Peace.
This is the problem with R16, each category has a few subcategories. We don't know if a judge is considering ALL of them or some, and we don't know which if only some. For FOUNDATION a judge may consider cleanliness in foundational moves, how much confidence they show in their rocking, variation, gestures, musicality, etc. IE: Profo Won in R16 NA gave out A LOT of 1-3s, if I had to guess, he gave bboys like Kid David's round a good score.
Give the system time. Eventually there will be consistency. Even though there is in writing what should be considered for each level in a category. The judge still has to obey those.
It could be an essential,But sometimes bboy without foot work(less footwork) win.In BC ONE 2006,The End got 4th Place with his amazing Powermoves(few footwork ). Blue got 2nd Place at the BC ONE Asia qualifier(he didn't show footwork much)
it doesnt matter if he CAN, it matters what he showed in the battle. Flashhhjordan didnt say issei COULDNT do footwork, he just said that he didnt show it, although it is an essential
Hey R16 Crew! How would you counter bboys/bgirls who do excessively long rounds to, essentially, "cover all their bases?" Like cats who do a bunch of power and a bunch of footwork, etc all in one round to get good scores on all the categories?
LMFAO @ Born. He's a great bboy and a great rocker, but he's a horrible judge. 2 for Hong 10's musicality when he hit the beat with a freeze just like Issei... really?
I think the foundation category should be split in two: a musicality and a confidence one. Also 5 is not enough to judge it properly, needs to be out of 100 or something, at the moment a decent power set gets 5, then if the next bboy does 10 one-arm airflares in a row he still can only get a 5... For the system as is the scores look ok to me, maybe hong10 should get lower than 4 on his 2nd round though.
@Heheh274 if thats part of the move then he needs to clean it up cause if you think about this and im not alone in saying this ... it looked like he crashed so SOMETHING NEEDS TO CHANGE
As I said, It has all been done before. Germans were doing this stuff in the 90's. O.U.R systems own rules, says that foundation is 1) confidence, 2) Approach to Music and 3) 1 or more of the 3 original bboy styles. 1 and 2 I would say would be tied but hong 10 showed much more of the original bboy styles, Also the judges are more experienced than me, but they did not stick to the criteria or the system. This system was made to make it a lot easier to see if a judge screws up.
Quando assisti essa batalha pela primeira vez achei que o Issei realmente tinha vencido, mas assistindo hoje eu sinceramente NÃO FAÇO A MENOR IDEIA de como os jurados não deram a vitória ao Hong 10... O primeiro round chegou a ser desproporcional!
I agree with you.New-gen kids have so much awesome skills nowadays.They're definetly coming to beat old-gen bboys.Vicios Vic,Sunny,Pocket....Now, Issei.They're all TOP bboy level already.
I'm am not sure of their certification process. Anyone can get a drivers license, but not everyone can teach and explain driving to a class. Remember, this dance is at it's best when true "rawness" is expressed. that's the biggest thing missing from this judging concept. Look at the bboys who do workshops, who put their heart and souls back into the culture, the ones who have really paid their dues. those bboys should be considered to be judges.
ok issei had some foundation so he got a 3 however hong 10 did deserve more than a 2 for foundation you have to admit. dynamics isnt just power, there are 7 components to dynamics: balance, complexity, energy, flexibility, risk, speed and strength. i believe hong 10 showed the same amount of dynamics as issei its about the hardness of the moves not the impressiveness. also battle is just about effort, its also about outdoing your opponent which hong 10 did amazingly in his first set
I kinda like the old hong10 more D: it seems like nowadays he tries alot of crazy moves and ends up crashing alot of em and it looks like he's rushing. I like the old one where he took his time with all his moves while still being clean and barely crashing a single set
Hong 10 should have gotten 5 on dynamics for both rounds, they were amazing, they judged issei correctly. . .except for his 2nd round foundation, should have been less then a three, he didn't do any footwork, not power foundation, like windmill/flare/airtrack . . . but yet hong 10 clearly does steps in his set, and still get less than 3. and if it's about listening to the music, Hong 10's first set should have been at least a 4. Born is such an inspiration, but I think that judging was wack.
it doesn't stand for musciliaty. it stands for foundation. My guess is that he got points off because of the crash at 1:12. and also he wasn't making eye contact at 1:20.
there are 3 subcategories in foundation. Musicality, Patterns and Finesse. You need to have at least one of those shown clearly AND confidence to score well on foundation.
the others are good dancers. when it comes to judging, you have to be able to see the bigger picture. cico for instance is an amazing powerhead. one of the best hands down. For him being a "dynamics"judge is completely bogus. there is more to dynamics than people think. to be able to see that requires you to have not only experienced other forms of dance/moves etc. but actually go and study the dance.
Yeah, Issei on the other hand, got two 3s in Foundation which is swag/dancing. I think Issei definitely kept that up in both rounds. He kept the music in the mind and continued to hit the beat with some simple tops, amazing power, and some simple footwork. Nothing extraordinary enough to earn him a 4 but he was indeed average in foundation. I think Hong 10 got a 2 from Born because maybe born just felt that Hong 10 was throwing down sets rather than dancing.
i dont know about this judging system man...First round i would clearly give to hong 10 or at least give him a 3 in musicality, he got a 2 even tho he did great in it...
Mauritz Strömblad Foundation is the basic structure of this dance. Without understanding the basics, basic movements, basic steps, rhythm concepts, musicality. You cant create or develop a style.
Mauritz Strömblad Foundation is always good! It will give you points for doing creative stuff. Check out Bruce Almighty on the redbull bc one 2015. Vs Pocket, Sunni and Alkolil he does such innovative stuff. I mean doing 90's on a redbull can is crazy. Stuff like that have big risks, but give big rewards. If you use basic things like flare windmill airflare it's ok, as long as you put it in a dope combination. Other factors also play a big role. like musicality, flow, originality, execution, style etc. and every judge mostly looks at seperate things. That's why the outcome of some battles is sometimes bullshit haha!
Yo Zeonbboy we know that Bboy Born been dancing 4 like 20 years. He started out doing powermoves. I'm probably one of the biggest Bboy Physicx and Born fans, but I prefer hong 10 any day. Let me get to the subject. Something went wrong with born judging system or he change his ways during crew battles competitions. Have you notices that he stop giving away 4-5 and only give 0-3s. I think born got into trouble with R16 . Please respond kindly and show some love for all bboys including RocZ
I have to disagree--the fact that he's trying different things shows that he's not done with the game yet. He's already achieved so much with what he had. He's still evolving, growing as a bboy. Now, he's going to do it in new ways. Plus, aesthetically, I think his style looks better now. Given time, these "crazy" moves are going to be clean and BLOW ALL OUR MINDS.
That means if something is 'fact' then there must be some sort of pre-existing set of rules which there aren't. This is the underlying flaw with this whole system as it is still a matter of opinion. You can't refer to the official bboy rule book to contest a decision made by a judge because it is a matter of how the judge values a particular aspect.
the judging was realy good dont get it why many ppl talking. if your opinion were correct and the most precise maybe you were there judging, the judges are there because they know what they are doing.
All I'm trying to say is The judging wasn't flawed because the impression that the bboys give the judges is what turns into scores. Issei won because he deserved it. I'm sure those professional bboys wouldn't let their judging flaw for an event as big as this. i for one can see why issei one as well, so you can have your opinion for hong 10, but what's written in history now, is that issei won.
What I want to know is how these two were tied for originality. Just about every move Issei did, we have seen from other bboys. He executed them extremely well, but they're not his own moves. On the other hand, almost every move Hong 10 threw down was his own. Sure we've seen him do them plenty of times, but that doesn't change the fact that they're his signature moves. Just doesn't make any sense to me.
i think some of the the judges use a cube to make their descision... that is it what it looks like sometime the system is a very good idea but still you have the problem like before that we all cannot understand why hong 10 become a 2 for musicality but was very nice on beat... hmmm the system is on the right way but their must be some changes with the judges maybe
To anyone that says that Hong 10 won this battle then tell me how can the fall at 3:03 be justified...? ISSEI was completely clean the whole time. Just because you know Hong 10 has a lot of potential doesn't mean that gives him any credit for this battle. He lost and you can see why, especially on round 2.
Not true at all. There are probably like 100 Bboy throughout every state and countries who all come up with a unique move that differentiates them from others. Bboying doesn't have a book of moves that you can learn. You can branch off every move, add something else to it, to either make it yours or make it an entirely different move. Example. Air Flares can be done with two hands. But some people can do it with one hand.
