HORUS LUPERCALS THOUGHTS ON HIS BROTHER PRIMARCHS 

I have many brothers and I’m 100% positive that this is just the humanity flickering through. As a brother you want your brothers to love and respect you through your actions, it’s just human of Horus to wish his brothers supported him because he obviously still admires them (the loyalist) in some way, shape or form. I know If I pulled a similar act against my family I’d have many doubts and insecurities, the one thing to nullify that would be the undivided support of my brothers. I feel as though Horus is in a way regretting turning against his brothers because deep down all he ever wanted was their admiration and support (pre heresy). Now it is past the point of no return and looking at the pieces he has measured against the Loyalist Primarchs, it’s beginning to weigh on him *heavily*

Amusing. Horus states of how Guilliman "would laugh" at him. Cut to ~10,000 years later in the Gathering Storm, and upon seeing what's become of the Imperium, Guilliman muses on how Horus "would laugh" if he could see them now. They're both wrong about the other.

I really doubt Guiliman would have laughed at Horus. I think Horus is projecting his own insecurities onto Guiliman......but the Lion 100% wanted the title.

I think that true issue Horus (and many others) had with Guilliman was indirectly highlighted in Know No Fear. For Roboute saw a role for himself and his sons after Great Crusade. More than that, Ultramar was proof that it can be accomplished. Think of it, his domain embodied the future of Imperium. He might well have been only Primarch free of this fear that one day, with Imperium victorious and ascendant, they (and their sons) will be dirty tools to set aside.

I see some people disliking how 'perfect' Guilliman is, but the character I've been reading in both the Horus Heresy and Dark Imperium is among the most interesting of the brothers due to his imperfections. It really feels like Guilliman was resented by all but a few because he was given the skills to manage an empire, whilst many of the brothers were given the skills to build it. The only primarch that I think truly knew the man beneath the armour was the Lion, the only one who could glimpse behind the golden veil to see the insecurities beneath. Horus was blinded by ambition and pride, which is why he couldn't look at Robute objectively, whilst to the Lion - to whom loyalty is its own reward - could truly see Guilliman for what he was.

Russ: Should we fight? Horus: What? Russ: Brother's of a king on Fenris often fight. Should we fight? Horus: No..! Russ: I think we shall fight.

So tragic for Guliman in know no fear when he names his friend brothers he lists Horus as a friend. He takes a long time to believe Horus turned instead choses thinking lorgar is acting independently. Oh and when his legionaries are shit talking Horus and bigin up Guliman he shuts them down and tells them to respect their war master. Later when the legionaries say the planned campaign against the orks is a waste of time, Guliman makes excuses for him saying Horus knows about the rift between the world bearers and ultramarines and is trying to use the campaign as an excuse to mend weak links. So basically it’s clear Guilman had ridiculous respect for Horus and we very fond of him despite Horus believing the exact opposite oh poor Guliman 😂😂

I may always comment to assist with the algorithm, but today I comment to say that I listened to this while painting my very first minis.

Horus might have made a good Warmaster if only he had cultivated good relations with those he saw as his rivals. Imagine, Guilliman and The Lion squabbling in a military meeting with Horus, with him playing the role of keeping a certain amount of order like Sanguinus did during Imperium Secundus. Truly, none would have had a chance against the Three Great Generals standing together, and if Horus managed to have friendly relations with the others, he would also have managed to stay confident enough not to fall.

And Guilliman though that Perturabo wanted nothing but to be a weapon. But this is Perturabo's fault, he did nothing to make people think otherwise. It is interesting to see the primarchs perspectives of each other

I think my favorite moment of clarity for Horus is at the Istvaan massacre when Angrons feet hit the planet and Horus just says "Why am I not surprised?"

“Calth burned yet our brother still lives Roboute wise Roboute.Roboute with his scratching quills and his plans and his hope to understanding to strong to damned perfect” -Warmaster Horus having a conversation with the skull of Ferris manus. Damn haha posted this before listening

It makes a certain kind of sense for Horus to be jealous of Guilliman, once I though about for a minute. Their paths were not so dissimilar pre-discovery, but Guillimans accomplishments dwarfed Horus's. The gang lord had to measure himself against an emperor.

I suppose he thought so well of Roboute because of his all-round competence. His organising/strategising mind considers and takes account of so many possibilities that it would translate as well to war as to the ruling and administrating of an empire. Or probably any endeavour you'd care to mention, come to think of it. I think he got the best/most useful gift when the Emperor was divvying out his abilities in the Primarch creation.

Its understandable, Guilliman built an empire that was made to thrive without his input (unlike Kurze), plus he quickly and efficiently brought worlds into compliance (unlike Lorgar). Flaws and all, he does a damn impressive job in such a nightmarishly complex setting.

Guilleman also held Ferrus Manus in high regard. He was one of his dauntless few, and the most dependable in Guillemans view.

It's great how they've fleshed out most of the Primarchs like this. And it's interesting to look at how the one who was considered the greatest was so deeply flawed, especially comparing Guilliman's thoughts about his brothers. I like this quote from 'Unremembered Empire': 'Despite himself, Guilliman felt his heart skip and his lungs pump. The Lion. The *Lion*. There were brothers that he could look down on, and was happy to, and there were brothers that he could admire. Rogal, Magnus and Sanguinius, and, damn him, even Russ. He could admire them for what they were. But there were only two brothers that he had ever actually looked up to, only two brothers that he had ever actually admired. There were only two brothers that he felt shadowed by when they were present. Lion El'Jonson and Horus Lupercal.'

Talking very strictly about war-capacities: Horus was the best because he mastered strategy and war itself, intending war not just by fighting and winning with the best moves, but also being able to take every decision, despite of morality or weakness. I think that's also why he respected Ferrus so much, the Gorgon had an iron will and the perfect mindset of the warmaster, of the conqueror. At the same time, maybe paradoxically, Horus highly regards Guilliman because he disproves the belief that that ruthlesness is the be needed for absolute success.

Thing is, guilliman and horus are like the two sides of a coin.. They're both ambitious, both are powerful leaders, both have a vast army, both are intelligent strategists and charismatic leaders.. What set them apart is guilliman does his duties for humanity, for the imperium with no regard to his standing among his brothers.. I can't picture guilliman being as validation-hungry as horus.. Horus craved praise, he craved being looked upon as a god.. He was the most proud among the brothers in the sense that he saw himself as truly the best.. Russ was proud as well, yes.. But he wasn't beyond acknowledging that he had brothers who could no doubt best him in a fight and an interesting point russ said about beating guilliman in a fight was only coz guilliman didn't have the heart for battle, he didn't look for fights just for the sake of fighting.. I think that if guilliman was the one who turned traitor, he would've been far more effective than horus.. Think about it, he had the largest legion, an empire of 500 worlds, his legion specialized in no specific aspect of war but was capable of all of them.. They excel in no style of warfare but are able to copy others.. Think how frightening that is.. A vast army with incredible adaptability led by a brilliant tactician and strategist..

He has Perturabo's capability for the cold calculus of war without, you know, being Perturabo. Also his quotes in Wrath of Iron about him wanting to do away with his and his legions augmentations to get in better touch with their own humanity was neat and sorta implied he hoped and would have fought tooth and nail for a much MUCH better future for his sons and the rest of mankind than the one they got.

G-man was one of the few primarchs that actually could have a role post crusade. A statesman always has a use, a shock trooper? Siege master? Peace has no uses for them. Of course primarchs resent him. Some primarchs really did get a raw deal.

I always love digging into the mindset of the Primarchs. I think Horus was definitely paranoid, but I don't think you can really blame him considering the position he's in. And before stupid Erebus (F*#k Erebus) started talking nonsense, Horus was a fantastic Warmaster.

It's makes sense.. Horus and Guilliman are opposites.. Horus is proud not only of his ability to wage war and martial prowess but also in what he is.. Guilliman is not.. He is one of the humblest of primarchs.. He asked permission from blood angels marines to meet with their chapter master and asked again to make sure he wasn't being a nuisance.. He knows what he is and what he is capable of but he doesn't revel in the fact that he's practically a demigod.. Yet despite being humble, he has accomplished the most out of all his brothers.. 500 plus worlds conquered and made better, peoples he's bested but spared from oblivion to give them a better way of life.. Horus had every right to be jealous of Guilliman.. And to me, the most tragic thing out of all of that is Guilliman having said that Horus was the best of them.. He looked up to Horus..

After 10,000 years of stasis Guilliman wakes to an Empire in shambles, chaos stronger than ever, tyranids arriving in ever growing numbers. Without wasting any time he launches the biggest crusade since the great scouring while effortlessly thwarting internal rebellion from high Lords who'd rather see Imperium burn than give up their power. Now this is Warmaster worthy track record.

I think you see a better spread of the skills that Guilliman brings to the table in the 40K timeline than you do anywhere in the heresy novels, and it really does epitomize the feelings that we see Horus show here. Guilliman is, probably more so than any of his brothers, an empire builder. He has the ability to administrate and establish a civilization on levels unheard of by any of the other primarchs. Moreover he has a humility that few see because he has such an incredible mastery of his position as a monarch. All the other primarchs talk about how he's stuffy and inflexible, and yet he shows more adaptability across a large swathe of skills than anyone ever gives him credit for. Even in the 40K timeline you hear him talk of his love for Horus and the respect of the skills of his brothers. I think while Horus had the undeniable advantage of his charisma, everyone knew that Roboute had the statesmanship skills and patience that seemed to really start to rankle Horus as he was beginning to tip toward the fall. Rho, your summation that you see Horus projecting is dead on, and you see Sanguinius bring it up as that when you hear them talking about his misgivings after the triumph at Ulanor.

A few people had mentioned that one source of Horus's apparent jealousy might be that Guilliman seemed to have a purpose beyond just fighting the Great Crusade. I want to point out that he wasn't the only one for whom this is the case. Dorn would have had purpose in defending the Imperium once it once built, but interestingly many of the Primarchs most useful in peacetime wound up being the traitors. Magnus was intended to sit the Golden throne was he not? And Fulgrims artistic expression and search for perfection elevated mankind(and it was clear how much the Emperor valued this). If the Emperor hadn't been so dead set against religion its clear what role Lorgar would have played as well. Even the Night haunter may have originally been intended for the administration of justice.

The Lion should have been warmaster. He was the consummate warrior and general. He had fury like Angron and Russ but lacked Angron's madness and Russ's hatred. He caught Konrad Curze, an accomplishment in of itself and with Corswain's assistance, nearly killed the Nighthaunter. And unlike Horus, the chosen warmaster, the Lion would've never fallen to chaos. He was tested and tempted from the moment he landed on Caliban by the ruinous powers and as an infant he defied them. Finally he is the only one, not even Malcador, to see the Emperor's true face or something very close to it. Quite the resume

I love how passionate you are about the lore, my man. Much respect!

Sanguinius was found in the middle and had to rebuild a Legion. Oculus has done a video on it and the BloodAngels had the largest space fleet and was right behind Horus, Lion and Guilliman in Legion size, wins and during the war on Murder Horus struggled to keep up with the Angel on the front lines due to tactics and strategies. Sanguinius was very humble and didn't overstep his brother's during war.

Just finished painting my Forgeworld model of Horus while listening to this!

Guilliman: "Your a good man brother, i want you to lead for the Emperor well Horus" The Lion: ".........SLAG!"

Chaos chose the 'weaker' primarchs because they were the ones with the greatest mental flaws that could be exploited. Of the traitor 9, alpharius/omegon joined out of the idea they were still following the emperor, Magnus turns because he kept making faustian deals with Tzeentch to save people, and Horus only turned because of Lorgar's chaotic tampering with is mind. The others all turned because they were mentally flawed. the loyalists had their problems but they were not as unstable as the others. The only way to flip the script and reverse which primarchs would have turned would be to remove the flaws of the traitor 9 and give them to the loyalist 9.

Roboute' Guilliman exemplifies the ideals of the ideals of the Emperor.

Guiliman: *breathes* Horus: and i took that personally

Horus Lupercal had entirely the wrong mindset to be Warmaster.

Look forward to your videos everyday. Helps me escape the shitbag hole of life.

It may just be my blueberry smurf bias speaking, but I believe Horus, of all the Prmiarchs, understood that Girllyman was closest to the perfect Primarch. The Lord of the 13th legion was what the Emperor foresaw for humanity. He understood The Art of War like no other, but he did not let it define him. Guilliman was an empire builder - just like the Emperor himself. Same reason for Ferrus. Deep down I believe Horus understood he was being controlled by Chaos and hated himself for failing his beloved brothers. (even if all of this was forseen and planned by TEH EMPRAH for whatever reason)

I think Horus must have been referring to the pre nerf ironhands when he said ferus knew war better than anyone

Rho Makes a Video, I Hit like Instantly. I've only Read the first 5 Books of the Horus Heresy Series, Loving them so far and Very much looking forward to getting around to Reading the Rest!! But I'm always more of a Primarch and Custodes Fan :P, Watchers of the Throne FTW! Keep up the Good Work Rho! Always Looking forward to seeing your Videos!

As a blood angel, horus week is a very tenuous time. I keep seeing the duel and my lord's body. I enjoy the videos though.

Horus is always a great subject for speculation. His various incarnations from loyal son to arch traitor make him a rich source to mine. I often wonder if say on Istvan3 if Horus while outraged his plans were upset, he didn’t take a perverse pride that his two mornival captains were confounding the strategies of primarchs. Or perhaps look at Abbadon and little Horus and wonder why they were not down there resisting him as well. As we get closer to the siege of Terra, we get to see bit by bit as Horus gives himself to chaos, the gregarious leader of the past usurped by the obsessive lord of slaughter.

I would stick with the quote from the first book of HH: "Dorn and Guilliman both embodied the staunchest and most dedicated Imperial qualities, commanding their Legion expeditions with peerless devotion and military genius. Horus desired their approval as a young man might seek the quiescence of older, more accomplished brothers." Also.. be careful with the interpretation of how was each Primarch succesful in the GC., for example one last quote from the 1st HH book: "Dorn’s record in the crusade was second only to Horus’s". And to your question why he admired Ferrus so much - well, orginally he was commanding one third of Imperial army, together with Horus and BigE, so his daddy must have had a good reason for it :)

Thank you for doing these! They’re always appreciated!

A lot of people seem to forget that Guilliman ran a fairly large empire and the biggest legion. He is also a natural administrator , it his purpose. So I can understand why Horus is jealous.

Think the best way to describe Ferrus is like the guy at your work who just turns up every day, keeps himself to himself, works exaclty to the time stated on the rota but just bosses his job, goes home, then comes back the next day and just smashes it out again, and gets twice the amount of work done. Some people will poke fun at that person as a loner or a creep, others look at that person and respect their ability to just get stuff done, without fail, and without needing reward or praise for doing it, and them just being that precise and accurate at what they do as a huge strength.

It is kinda ironic that Guilliman has never considered himself worthy of the title of Warmaster. He clearly thought that Horus and Lion were both better than him. And here Horus almost admits that Guilliman was better suited for the role... Damn, it is probably hard to be a demigod.

"He knows war as well as I do...he just wishes he didn't" Gulliman should have been Warmaster.

Hail, Wolf Lord Rho! Thank you for another great upload! May I make a suggestion? Given the Covid-19 epidemic which is casting its grim specter across the globe, stories about Mortarion, Typhus the Destroyer Hive and Grandfather Nurgle perhaps would be in order?

I have always found it nice that all primarchs except for the most lost to chaos like Angron and Lorgar seem to consider Ferrus as this sort of youngest, sweet boy of a brother. Even, Fulgrim, who gave himself fully to Slannesh, considered Ferrus true family. Ferrus Manus was that young, vibrant younger brother whose tragedy affected both sides of the Horus Heresy. Truly the saddest loss for all of them.

horus needed a hug

"What if the Primarchs are reversed?" There is an excellent version of this on RU-vid: "The Theoreticus Heresy." This is an audio story over 3 hour long with Guilliman as the first Heretic and Dorn as Warmaster.

All of the primark's were jealous of Guilliman. They were jealous of him because he built an Interstellar Empire. While the best they could do was unite one world.

I'm surprised at how dismissive he was of the Lion, especially when you consider his wins per crusade year. The Dark Angels were quickly catching up to Horus' own achievements. Maybe he was just so put off by the Lion he down-played his strengths?

I'm listening to this right now while on the way to the GW store near and I'm heading "straight in" to the black library section.

Maybe they can just make another ferrus. Why not? I would love to see Gillian go to terra, take over, use the emperors tech and replace all the lost primarchs,and start the great crusade over again. He could get rid of all the dogma and they could make tech leaps again. Could you imagine a new Horus and his legion facing down abbadon? Gulliman would know of all the flaws,and take steps to prevent them. He could be the father they needed. It could be great seeing the new primarchs fighting the old corrupted primarchs. It would be incredibly sad for the corrupted primarchs to see what they could have become. That would be some moving story line.

As far as I know Guiliman, Dorn, the Lion and Fulgrim all wanted to be Warmaster. Sanguinius never wanted to be, but Horus said at one point, that if he was the Emperor, he would have chosen Sanguinius. Different point: I think Perturabo is really underestimated by many (Primarchs and fans). He has the calculating, logical mind of Ferrus and the tactical understanding of Dorn and was probably one of the most intelligent Primarchs.

This channel deserves more attention. Just saying.

Glad to see the respect for ferrus!

SOOOOOO hype to start listening

This surely was a nice insight into the mindset of horus! I wonder if he had a different opinion of magnus, since he did not willingly chose to betray the emperor

I think it's refreshing that he still had some self-awareness left even after his corruption to Chaos. He knew of the strengths of his brothers as well as their faults. He was aware of his own limitations. In all fairness, these are the marks of a great leader, to know how great your subordinates are and how best to utilize their skills. I wonder if he realized that it might not have been a coincidence that his traitor legions comprised of mostly the broken and monstrous ones.

Horus would have been jealous of a pebble had the Emperor kept one as his favorite pebble.

I think Horus knew the minds and hearts of his brothers as well as the Emperor, maybe better in some cases. Guilliman plays the role of Statesman and does it well. But like all of his brothers he was made for war, so to say he doesn't know war or isn't good at it means you aren't paying attention. He didn't unite all of Ultramar with pretty words and favorable gifts. His view on his fellow traitor Primarchs is spot on. Most of them were broken and uncontrollable long before the Emperor found them. His avoiding/disregarding the Khan likely came from the fact that he knew his heart and that loyalty and honor were too entrenched in him for him to ever viable option. I doubt even the Emperor knew Jaghatai as well as Horus did. His thoughts on Ferris aren't wrong per say as he did show his battle savvy at the Drop Site Massacre by being able to cut a swath through enemy lines that vastly out numbered his Legion and was only defeated by Fulgrim's weakness. But on the flip side as a commander you need to know how to keep your cool and direct your anger more efficiently. Sanguinius, Vulcan and Corax have shown a remarkable ability to do this. All in all I think the Primarchs he laments are the ones he wanted and knew could/would follow him. Honestly I think he was surprised that Fulgrim and Mortarion turned. Fulgrim for his fan-boy love of the Emperor and Mortarion for his hatred of Psykers and sorcery. But unfortunately he ended up with the broken Primarchs.

I like the mention and hint of the emperor perhaps selecting him as warmaster , as if horus was to fail or be corrupted he could not take everyone else with him. The emperor knew the kind of son and leader horus was....

I seem to remember in one of the earlier books, Horus is stated as seeing Guilliman and Dorn as “older brothers”

Started watching these lore vids 2 weeks ago, new of warhammer but nothing about it, stumbled onto a majorkill vid and honestly, I kept watching for his humour but just found this channel and love it, luetin too, I've been watching non stop, wish I knew of this years ago

I feel sorry for Guilliman for what happened in the past from what I've read he had great respect for all his brother and often thought he was the lessor brother to all of them, I like him even more now because he is the most human he has the fears of a mortal man

I don't like how all the primarchs just disregard Magnus when they are comparing each other

A Vulkan hug could of prevented this

Another amazing video man!

I would love to hear more of the connection of konrad to his brothers and what they think of him. The traitors in special.

"I am a master of broken monsters". Says the broken monster.

you should do one with the lion and Horus, the seine were lion and horus are arguing because luthar left caliban to ansure a call

Truly great leaders understand that it is not the prowess in combat of the enemy leader that matters, it is the prowess of the enemy leaders mind to wage war that matters. Guilliman is the perfect primarch for Horus to be truly worried about...there were others who could win a fight better, win a battle better, win a campaign better but non who fielded the ability to organise a war and the logistical prowess to power it.

One of my enduring memories of reading the first 3 Horus Heresy books is seeing the friendship between Horus & Sanguineuss, the sense of foreboding and tragedy.

Vulcan should have been war master! Humble, respected by the others and a complete bad ass. Who else went 1 on 1 with conrad and beat his ass? He's the primarch that we deserved. Just my opinion lol

My first time hearing any of these mentioned passages. Quite surprised about the Guilliman "possibly gloating at his failure" shout from Horus... not so much The Lion one though. And that he thought Alpharius and The Khan wouldn't outright accept him as warmaster?

I don't why people harp Guilliman. He really is an awesome character and I couldn't think of a better Primarch to come back

I think he really envied and worried about Guilliman was because Roboute was an empire builder, a creator of laws and organizational master. Horus knew once the Crusade was completed he'd have become a side show next to Guilliman and Dorn.

Guilliman, the Captain America of the Primarchs. Horus, the Thanos Ferrus, the Iron Man?

I've listened to this a few times. And I would appreciate a return of Horus. Even if it's only as an old recording of him doing some speech or something. Similar to the Night Haunter's assassination video. I really think Horus's redemption is sort of appealing. Im definitely a fan of Kurze fan but Horus is so relatable from the older sibling perspective. And his mental health is neat look into. The pressure of being the first. And the jealously. If not fear of being overshadowed by his brothers. And I mean who wouldn't be jealous of Gulliman. He had an empire before any of them. He had an empire that probably could have put up a decent fight against the imperium. And his boring perfection is enviable. Even in the current timeline where we get to see his humanity and cracks. It basically gave him what he was missing. Id be pretty stoked to see Horus's cl9ne again as well. Or all of the primarchs clones. That could be an insane twist and a massive war right there.

now the horus heresy series is wrapping up, would be great to see a great crusade series start

Even the lion respected Guilliman. Thinking that Gulliman during the heresy had already made his 2nd empire. It kinda proves that Guilliman. Was valuable to bothsides.

With Ferrus turning it would have been a 10 vs 8, so they would obviously have a better chance and would had an even better outcome at Istvaan.

Horus and Sanguinius's friendship is very tragic. The closest of brothers. Look how it ended.

Your vids are perfect to paint to mate, keep up the great work! 👊👊👊

You know I've always liked the underarted primarchs the most. Corax has been my favorite for a long time, I just think its a shame that he was found so late in the crusade and that he's legion was one of the ones at Istvan since he had little spotlight. Recently I've been absolutely fascinated with Ferrus to the point in which I'm seriously considering switching favorites. Its such a shame how his lore had been handled up until a few years ago.

Hey every body rick grimes here today we are gonna be listening to wolf lord rho

Enjoyed the video! Thank you.

I don't think it's that unreasonable to believe that a fractured shard of Horus's soul still lingers somewhere but it's a part of him which is free of corruption due to the fact that after the emperor purged the chaos taint from his soul he used a psychic blast to destroy before the chaotic energies had a chance to come rushing in once more. Therefore the small piece that remains is pure and truly loyal to the emperor and I could totally imagine that shard reaching out to Guilliman during a time when the veil between the materium and immaterium is very thin due to a warp storm erupting close to Terra. I can picture this scene so perfectly in my mind with Guilliman waking up in a cold sweat after suffering terrible PTSD induced nightmares regarding the Horus heresy and yet despite waking he spots as if still dreaming a hulking shadow lurking just far enough away so he can't quite make it out. However instead of simply continuing to stare in bewilderment he opted to act and thus in a storm of movement the Lord commander shot out of bed and in the mere blink of an eye propelled forward bolter in hand to confront the brazen intruder but before even being able to fire so much as a single bolt round the supposed intruder had seemingly evaporated into thin air. That would be the first encounter and apologies in advance for my terrible writing LOLXD!!.. 🤣

I wonder though... are the Chaos Gods making him see what they want him to see?

I like how this was done. His thoughts are a mixture of truth and insecurity, like his thoughts on Guilliman: From one point of view, it is possible Guilliman might have been jealous of Horus. On another point of view, Guilliman might have shrugged it off and said, "Why would I want the title of Warmaster? I already have all of Ultramar to take care of."

There’s already a fanfic of that on Fanfiction.net of that. It’s about a clone of Horus created by a group of Black Legion Sorcerers deep in the Warp, but they resurrect him as a heavily guilt ridden Loyalist instead of the “Arch Traitor” of the 31st Millennium with all his memories prior and during the heresy, and sets out a quest for redemption in the War-torn 41st Millennia. It hasn’t updated in a while (about a month or two), but it is a fascinating read nonetheless IMO.

I think Horus’s statement that Lion wouldn’t be a good Warmaster is due to the events immediately preceding Isstvan. The Lion completely failed to detect Perturabo’s treachery and the massacre was a crushing defeat for the Loyalists as a result. As has been stated many times, Lion El’Johnson was great with strategy, but not so much with people this he might not be able to utilize his troops to their fullest potential

Would’ve loved to have seen The Lion vs Horus

The Primarchs were all designed to be more or less equal to each other, therefore raising one above the others as Warmaster was a *HUGE* mistake. If the Emperor didn't have such hiki-NEET tendencies and completed the crusade himself none of the Primarchs would have ever turned. Not even Angron and not even Lorgar.

Tactica Imperialis did a video about if the primarchs switched sides.

Remember. Warmaster is just like working retail. You start out pretty alright but then you snap 2 years later.

A lot of people have said the lion should be war master in the comments and personally I see him more of henchman and right hand man an enforcer like russ not someone to lead, his role would be important in leadership because the leader always needs a henchman and right hand man to back them up so I feel the tag team of Guilliman as the brains and the lion/russ as henchman more fitting then just the lion

Horus Lupercal. So great yet so small. The Devil's favorite sin is vanity. Apparently the Chaos gods agree.