How China was once part of Middle-earth... 

So Saruman was the creator of duolingo

@@thekuan7002 The Two Towers (of Babel)

​@platitudepete8 or the sponsor of this video, babbel

Perfect.

John Xina would like to apologise for differentiating Taiwan(An integral part of middle earth) and for hurting the feelings of the middle earthen people.

Surprised you recognized the reference few know of the Mongolian Death Worms in western culture

... Thank you for providing another rabbit hole for me to get lost into

@@ryancarter1080 Yeah, it sounds kind of obvious, if you know about them. Recently they are becoming more popular to fantasy fans, e.g. they were included as sandworms and olgoi-khorkhoi recruitable units in homm2 extension town type of Factory. I wish we had more cross-cultural references is the fantasy genre and more of far east and south (and north) in tolkien lore.

that's what I always assumed the line meant anyways

Super cool cyptid legend, always wanted to see a cool novel about them, temors gets there in some ways but just feels cheap

nah tolkien just likes changing spellings around, right? Thats what the video says

I'm aware of wyrm. The spelling in the draft was wire-worm.

Ottoman/Persian definitely fits because they were both nomadic tribes that eventually settled into empires and threatened western civilization

​@Captain_Insano_nomercy Iranian it really depends what dynasty. The Achaemenids and Sassanians were not nomadic originally (granted Achaemenids are always a little hard to track before their imperial ascension). The only pre Islamic dynasty that definitely were were the Parthians who arguably weren't that Iranian to start with (but definitely became much more over time).

@@thomassaxon8254 the Parthians were not Persians but they were an Iranic people. But honestly that is just a minor nitpick

@@thomassaxon8254 not to be that guy, but you might want to doublecheck that, because Achaemenids were originally nomadic as well. They settled in during the bronze age along with the Medes. I was reading a book about it recently by Lloyd Llewellyn Jones, Persians: the age of the great kings

And I disliked their depiction of the Variags as samurai. WAY too far for the proximity of Khand in relation to Nippon. The Age of the Ring team came up with a much better design.

"...its name is Â-Mâzon, Breaker of Souls."

They took our jeeeb

Ok, but "the architecture of Gondor" is mostly an invention of Peter Jackson. He didn't really follow the description Tolkien gives of the city, apart from copying the general shape from the cover of RotK. Tolkien actually described it resembling a Middle-Eastern city, and used a map of 3rd Century AD Jerusalem as inspiration. For reasons I don't understand, Peter Jackson made them French. The architecture, clothing, and armor designs all seem to be inspired by 12th Century French designs. This bothers me, because Tolkien went out of his way to make these people seem Jewish FOR A REASON. Quite apart from Gondor being in the "middle east" of Middle Earth, he was also trying to make Aragorn a Messianic figure straight out of the book of Isaiah (not a parallel to Jesus, but more the kind of Messiah Isaiah himself would have imagined). Also, because he was annoyed that *certain people* tried to take the Judaic elements out of The Hobbit, so he tried to make it impossible to do that with LotR. Actually Minas Tirith should not really look European at all (apart from a bit of Greco-Roman influence perhaps, but it definitely should not be a giant motte-and-bailey castle like is seen in the movies), but more like a combination of the Temple Mount and Petra. Peter Jackson's artistic decisions are not canonical. Tolkien did not only take inspiration from European history and myth, he also used biblical stories, Greek, Egyptian and Sumerian mythology. And his description of Romenna, the harbor city Elendil ruled, was inspired by Roman accounts of Phoenician Carthage. Again, Tolkien really went out of his way to make these people seem NOT European.

You can't really change it because Chinese architecture is already that fantastical IRL. Also the SoW image deviates a lot from actual Chinese architecture, including the placement of a Paifang (gateway) on top of the roof. But you are right that Tolkien wouldn't have enough knowledge about China to do it right. Cathay in Warhammer 3 definitely passed but there's still much left to be desired, also it got off easy since it didn't need to take into cultural stuff that much. However, if someone wants to do a fanfic, taking the mainstream/court culture during the Zhou with aesthetical consideration from the Xia and Shang as well, it can paint a very different China than what the incorrect stereotype people have of ancient China usually portrays and still remain accurate and unmistakable, to a Chinese that is.

@@sophiejones3554 What? Movie Gondor looks nothing like Medieval French architecture, it's mainly Roman inspired. The fashions isn't French at all either. Peter Jackson did use Mont-Saint-Michel as an inspiration for the general shape of Minas Tirith, but that's because they are both multi-layered fortress sitting on a mount (and none of them look like a motte-and-bailey ffs). And Gondor is not particularly inspired by the Jews in the books either (unlike the Dwarves), but by Ancient Egypt, also with strong parallels to the Roman / Byzantine Empire. Also Númenor is very reminiscent of both the myths of Atlantis and Arcadia.

it would have been really ignorant and racist, given his background. I'm glad he didn't do it so Chinese and other Asians can enjoy his work and instead of looking at it with extreme cringe. Africa and Middle-East, not so lucky.

@@Bombur888 The dwarves aren't that inspired by actual Jews. There's a kind of resemblance to Jewish stereotypes but that isn't the same. They are pretty much just the dwarves/Svartalvar of Germanic tradition (they were characterized as greedy long before there were any Jews in Germany, the svartalf archetype was applied to Jews not the other way around). Remember, the name "Gimli" is ADUNAIC, as is clearly stated in the Appendices of LotR. It's not his real dwarvish name. It's Adunaic that has the distinctly Hebraic flavor, "Gimli" meaning "star" is practically identical to the word with the same meaning in Hebrew. The fragments of attested Khuzdul do not give the same vibes. If the place had looked Egyptian I wouldn't be complaining. If it had looked like ancient Tyre, I wouldn't be complaining. If it had looked like medieval Byzantium even, I would not be complaining. It looked like f-cking France. I have been there, I would know. Tolkien did not like French stuff, he was an Anglo-Saxon fanboy who viewed the Norman invasion as a tragedy. I am a Francophile myself, I like French stuff, but it has no business in LotR because Tolkien did not.

Was London nicer when the professor was alive, because if not boy Howdy, is that a downgrade.

@@allthenewsordeath5772 yes he was very anti industrialist. The hobbits also get fucked over by the humans who take their land and hunt em down

some treat tolkien legendarium as pseudo history of ours. And we currentlly live in 7th or 8th age.

In mine they went to India and became Vishnu and Krishna (they're blue too).

This is some Cathay level shit

I only agree with you on one part. The Blue Wizards are definitely in China/ Rhûn.

The blue wizards are Confucius and Lao Tzu

Well Tolkien shrouds what happened to them in mystery but does say that they entered the lands of the enemy. Plus Sauron spent tons of time in the East where none of the free peoples could stop him. He does later say that the blue wizards purpose was to resist Sauron in the far east and must’ve played a large part in hindering Sauron’s plans in the second and third age. The Istari didn’t enter middle earth just to mess around. They came with a purpose entrusted to them. Whether they all stayed true to this purpose to the very end is another story though.

The would suffer the same fate as the Great Armament,Eru would bury them as well. Danes are Middle Men,not Edain like the Numenorians.

@@c.antoniojohnson7114 Yes, but this makes my point. Eru would do it while the Valar themselves do nothing. I know Eru and the Valar's actions here are informed by Tolkien's Catholicism, but I've never liked this aspect of his writing.

@@c.antoniojohnson7114 "Middle Men" is an Elvish and Numenorean term for their contemporary peoples in the First, Second, Third, and presumably Fourth Age. How do you determine whether the Danes would be deemed as them, and not, say, "Men of Darkness"? After all the Dunedain did not use "Men of Darkness" only for nations serving Sauron, but also nations deemed not Northern Atani - Edainic in descent. What is it that makes the Danes Edainic?

That would be fascinating but I doubt any author that good would want to spend that much time writing in someone else's universe.

We really don't need stuff like that. Let Tolkien's work be Tolkien's work.

​@@istari0Just about any fantasy author that isn't George RR Martin would jump at the chance of guaranteed sales from writing in the Tolkien universe. It amazes me that the Tolkien estate isn't handing out franchises right now, now that Christopher Tolkien is out of the picture.

for me it makes the setting more cringe-inducing, as does the entire 'ancient earth' framing device.

There's also LotRO where the Easterlings are more treated as mongols to some extent in costuming mixed with some of the more middle eastern pieces mixed in, probably due to the conquests in history at the time

As a Chinese person, the Easterlings seem more similar to the Persian(especially) Sassanid dynasties or the Medieval Turkish dynasties in Iran and Central Asia.

@@KaiHung-wv3ulSame here. I still have a feeling Khamul is implied as a Chinese emperor in particular since his nickname was "the Dragon King" in MERP

@@user-rr2ui5dx5y Haven't played MERP(Middle Earth Role Playing?), is it good?

​@@KaiHung-wv3ulthe "Easterlings" that we actually see in the movies were supposed to be axemen of Khand, we never actually see any proper Easterlings/Men of Rhun.

The Hobbit was not part of the Legendarium when Tolkien first wrote it.

Exactly, and if you hear a random calm and graceful voice out of nowhere. It's an Elf.

I’d love that! Lots of cool lore hidden in old tabletop RPGs.

I like the one fan art of the two blue wizards together where one of them is wearing a turban and the other wears a chinese hat, and both of them look like the biblical wise men from the east

​@@blueshit199They probably did become sages that laid the foundation for "eastern wisdom."

They were meant to remain in western Middle-earth, so they were probably European looking, and the Istari couldn't change their physical form (fana) like regular Maiar. Then again, It never describes any Istari as European looking. I'm just assuming that they did look European to blend in as normal old men from the region, but I could be wrong. They just would have had to be sent to Middle-earth in those fanar already, without the intention of them travelling east.

@@miscie-28 The Blue Wizards went east shortly after their arrival in Middle-Earth. I don't think that was by chance; it makes more sense that their mission was to work against Sauron in those lands. So, their physical forms probably looked like a typical inhabitant of those areas.

​@@istari0 Yeah, I think you're right! I had a memory of Tolkien saying that the wizards techinically failed their task by going to the east because they were supposed to help the western resistance, but I can't find that quote now. I must have misread something as a kid. I always thought that made no sense. Eastern fana blue wizards ftw!

Maybe Altai, possibly together with connected ranges such as Tian Shan, Sayan etc... Gobi and Taklamakan deserts are right east of Altai

​@@popularmisconception1 Taklamakan is far south of Altai, Gobi is very, very far east of Altai. Learn basic geography before commenting.

then what would be Numeron? Atlantis?

​@@equilibrum999the Quenya word for Numenor is "Atlantë" my dood.

​@@equilibrum999Tolkien in the letters straight up refered to Numenor as basically an adaptation of the story of Atlantis to his world, so... yes. Also btw Gondor was compared to Egypt, mainly in terms of the monumental architecture and with Gondorian crown design being pretty much inspired by the ancient Egyptian crowns.

Repulsive furry.

That's a nice sentiment.

@@DarthGandalfYT Also, like a sad "tug" at the heartstring feeling that such a wonderous world is forever lost to us, Ereol in my mind (I think) represents that glimmer of connection, of hope that the greater-than-great that is Aman is still there. I know that all of J.R.R. Tolkiens legendarium is made up (not unlike words and numbers.. ba dum tss) but still, It's hard to explain the love of the worldbuilding one might grow from reading Tolkien's books.

In fact, when LOTR was translated in Chinese, they used the same word they use for Midgard, the Norse realm. Otherwise, imagine the confusion of Chinese reader when they see "Middle Earth" thinking the story is set in China

@@NIDELLANEUM middle earth is 中土世界 and midgard is 中土大陆, so yeah essentially the same

在大古时代中，在西周朝之时，中国写文为中或。

Yes, in a way. The Americas are that landmasses that remain after Valinor was removed from our plane of existence by the end of the Second Age.

In the Akallabeth of the Silmarillion, it describes how Aman/Valinor (the Undying Lands) was diminished from the world and taken into the realm of hidden things, and that new lands and new seas were made. As a result, the Straight Road was made which is the route that left Middle-earth's curvature through sky and space to the land of Aman. Therefore it's likely that the American continents were the new lands that took the place of Aman. "For Ilúvatar cast back the Great Seas west of Middle-earth, and the Empty Lands east of it, and new lands and new seas were made; and the world was diminished, for Valinor and Eressëa were taken from it into the realm of hidden things." - The Silmarillion, Akallabeth: The Downfall of Númenor.

Tokien once in a private letter made this connection "going west" - America, but was nothing more than small throwaway joke.

​@@vladprus4019 I think he actually stated that the landmass left behind after Valinor was removed was probably the americas.

Given that Men were first corrupted by Morgoth in the East, and those who rejected it escaped westward, they probably would back Sauron. Though the geography is vague enough that it's possible that some fled to the eastern fringes instead.

@@ingold1470 I've always wondered in versions where the world was always round, wouldn't the eastern shore also have that noble proximity to the Valar that only western middle-earth had in flat versions? I mean, Morgoth was there for a while but he went back to Beleriand relatively quickly. Maybe the pacific ocean was too big or something.

With first Morgoth and then Sauron around, I doubt an empire of Men similar to China could have arisen.

​@@biggusballuz5405Chinese used Buddhism to disguise Taoist spells and rituals during the Yuan Dynasty. There is a video by Benebell Wen on RU-vid that explains it in great detail

​​​​​​​@@ingold1470no, they will back sauron to a certain extent but they will not submit to his rule. They will claim the next morgoth themselves and fight a civil war to pick the next ruler. After sauron got defeated, they should be the next antagonist.

they have in Tibet changed the meaning of some local village/town from 中甸 to 上格里拉, basically Shangri-la.