How Close Is LeBron To Being In Discussion For G.O.A.T.? | First Take | May 2, 2017 

If we're debating whether or not he's in the discussion then he's in the discussion.

Lebron is Lebron. MJ is MJ... End of discussion... Why is this even a question?

How can Lebron be in the goat conversation when there's lavar ball

LBJ is in the discussion already tho even tho I'm not a LBJ fan he really is the best 2-way player in the league

Dirk > Paul Pierce

Robert Horry won 8 championships in his career, Bill Russell 11 so does that mean Robert and Bill are better than Jordan

1. Jordan 2. Kareem 3. LeBron I'm a huge Jordan fan, he is the G.O.A.T, but you have to be ignorant as hell if you don't think LBJ is in the discussion for G.O.A.T.

why do we punish Lebron for playing in the NBA when he was 18-20? he was arguably the best player in the league in his third year, while MJ was in college those years. we can't expect him to carry a team to a fucking NBA championship when he was 21, especially when MJ didn't do so until he was 27

LBJ will never be MJ, MJ is the GOAT of his era. LBJ is just beginning to start his own journey of becoming the GOAT. There will be always an argument of who is the greatest, but the truth is, they are both the Greatest of all Time in their own era. They are practically the highest standard, who would be the next MJ? Kobe is the closest. And Who wiĺl be the next LBJ? I haven't seen anyone close enough.

MJ beat Pacers, Heat, Knicks and even a Shaquille and Penny team got swept in ECF. Don't just look at the numbers. The competition back then was WAY WAY harder. There's no competition in the East. Mind you, MJ didn't jump ship just to win a championship. Then go back and have Irving and Love to pair with the right solid role players.

If LeBron continues to beat the Golden State Warriors, maybe twice more, he's the greatest. That's a superteam no one has had to face ever.

Lebron cruises through the east to get to the finals each year. Jordan played with some watered down greats and teams. Jordan is 6-6 and Lebron 3-7...Lebron been to 6 straight Lebrons better all around player...Jordan top 3 scorer ever and one of the best defensives guards all time... Hoenstly this argument of who is better has the same points brought up over and over but they always have something else that can be said to dis value them. but anyway imo i think jordan the goat and Lebron became an all time great/ top 10 all time by like age 28 and in the end Lebron will end up as the 3rd best player to ever play if you dont think he is already.

I've never seen Jordan choke (especially in the 4th) I've never seen Jordan recruit or SCREAM "I need help" I've never seen jordan say I need rest I've never seen Jordan in a game 7 in the finals I've never seen Jordan guarded one on one and dominated in a finals I never seen Jordan get swept in the finals I could go on, all respect to LeBron his the best right now but not the goat. I haven't even said what I've seen Jordan do

Jordan never beat the great teams. Didn't beat Isaiah Thomas until his career was over. Couldn't fuck with Bird. Stop acting like he has this unblemished record.

if Dan Gilbert would've brought talent to Cleveland the first time around, LeBron wouldnt have had to leave.

Lmao I'm not even gonna say anything Jordans face in the thumbnail says it all

Jordan never went to 7 games because his competition was trash

Lebron is top 3 all time. It's him, Kareem and mike

Jordan never did something like what LeBron did last year in the Finals.

Interesting Post: -Michael Jordan never got swept in the finals 🐐 - Michael never lost back to back finals 🐐 - Michael never had a team mate average more than 22 in the finals, Kyrie (over 28) and Wade (over 26) lol - Michael Three peated twice, Lebron's so goat but can't do even one Three peat with stacked teams on two different franchises - Michael never let any team celebrate winning a title on his home court, unlike Lebron ('07, '11, '15) 🐐 - Fans never burned Michael's Jordan's jersey on Television - Michael never took the easy way out and bailed on his city or team and join two other Superstars. He always wanted to face the best competition, not join them 🐐 - Michael never had a meltdown like Lebron had in the '11 finals, or lose in 5 games by a NBA finals record margin - Michael never lost to a team in the finals with one Superstar and role players past their primes lol - Michael never got saved by Paxson or Kerr. He set those plays up personally and it's documented, look at the interviews. Lebron needed Ray Allen to save his legacy. And Kyrie won last years ring. ABC has the footage. It's documented - Michael never got cramps and had to get carted off. He played with the flu in the finals and still dominated single handed, no Pippen excuse Lebron fans 🐐 - Michael never lost in the finals and had to jump ship not once but twice. That's Two times. And jump to another team again ring chasing just cause he's so goat that he couldn't stay and get it done like the legends do - In the biggest stage of them all it doesn't matter how many times you made it kids all that matters is if you won it and how you won! Jordan's finals record is 1991 - W (5 games) (MVP) 1992 - W (6 games) (MVP) 1993 - W (6 games) (MVP) Don't use the Paxson rebuttal kids, see above I just explained it 1996 - W (6 games) (MVP) 1997 - W (6 games) (MVP) Don't use the Kerr rebuttal kids, see above I just explained it 1998 - W (6 games) (MVP) Lebron's finals record is 2007- L (Swept) 2011- L (Lost in 6 games) 2012- W (Won in 5 games) 2013*- W (Ray Allen's finals winning shot) 2014- L (Lost in 5 games) goat 2015- L (Lost in 6 games) 2016* - W (Kyrie's finals winning shot) Stop the comparisons with Michael when he's got to catch Kobe first smh. Kids and millennials individualized stats to make a player look good doesn't tell the whole story in this watered down era of basketball with no physicality, hand checking, true 4 and 5's. Watch you Lebron fans make an excuse for each blunder in his record that I just pointed out lol and never accept the blame lol

I'll entertain it if he completes at least one 3peat, which starts with last year's championship

if he beat the warriors this year then yes

Idk why Stephen a Smith trynna defend Kobe saying he came off the bench. He wasn't instantly great and that shows lebron is better. He was NEVER a bench player

LeBron is 3 for 8 in championships. Jordan is 6/6. Case closed.

LBJ wins 2 more rings he the 🐐. LBJ has lost to dirk, Duncan (2), warriors. LBJ took bums to the finals and got swept doesn't count. LBJ lost two of his all stars and lost to warriors don't count. LBJ right now is number 2. If he wins 2 more he would be 5-4 he would've beaten Duncan, a 73 win team and a team in OKC who had 3 potential MVP on it. And the greatest team ever on paper. If LBJ had played The jazz, Barkley suns, sonics, he would be 6 for 6 as well. Someone please argue that Jordan has faced tougher competition in the finals

MJ beat mediocre teams. Fight me

both are amazing players and am just glad I have been fortunate to watch both play.

Soooo ... we don't have any topics to talk about, so we are gonna go at this thing YET again? AGAIN?

Well Jordan never faced a stacked team with 4 superstars and 2 top 3 players in the league/ hall of famers, 2 all time 3 point shooters and arguably the 3rd greatest scorer of all time. Let's keep 1 hunna

Jordan never lost a finals series. Enough said!

Shout out to Stephen A. for giving Kobe his due. People always ignore the fact that he was the 13th pick and played his way into the starting lineup of a 50+ win team with 3 all-stars (O'Neal, Van Exel, Jones).

Before Lebron joined Miami you had Eastern teams fighting tooth and nail to get to the Finals. From the year he was drafted to his final year with Cleveland you had 3 different eastern teams win the finals, Pistons, Celtics, and the Heat. After he joined the Heat it has been Lebron every year, not because he is just that great but because he aligned himself with 2 other Superstars to do it. Before he created the big three era, you had the Pistons, Celtics, Magic, Heat, and the Cavs all go to the Finals to either win a title or lose and now it is all Lebron because no Eastern team can match up against his stacked teams, this is something people like Max and Stephen A don't talk about. You had like 7 years of true competition in the East until Lebron got tired of amounting to 0 and decided to take an easy way out and join up with 2 other Superstars to dominate the east and when Miami ran its course and looked like he would have to carry the burden again, he dips Miami after promising never to leave and goes back to the team he first pissed on and does the exact same thing only younger and better. This is his legacy, this is why he will never amount to MJ, he took the easy way out and said fuck it I want rings now so I'll form a big 3. Jordan just had Scottie for the first 3-peat and no Grant wasn't the good to be considered a big time player. Kobe is the closest thing to Jordan that we had, the mentality, drive, scoring ability, championships, loyalty, and humbleness in regards to who is the greatest conversation. I never heard Jordan or Kobe say I am the greatest ever, or call themselves "King" lol

this argument is basically cats stuck in the 90s vs. cats who ain't even watch Jordan play really. Yea you have your occasion 35+ year olds who believe opposite. But LeBron is the GOAT.

lol he's not even close to Magic or Kobe. Also Jordan took off 2 years after his father died after winning 3 rings and came back again and won 3 rings. If he didn't stop, he should have won 8.

wow lebron only trails 249 points in post season scoring and he's swept so many teams and still has 5 years of good ball left in him

I say Kobe while sitting at my desk throwing a rolled up paper into the trash can

Bill Russell- Greatest Player Wilt Chamberlain- Most Dominant Player Lebron James- Most Complete Player Michael Jordan- Greatest Scorer

If LeBron wins this year, discussion over. He's the GOAT. Level of difficulty on his rings greater than Jordan's.

im so sick of youtube commercials when are we all going to come together and boycott these non skippable commercials?

Jordan was on the greatest team during his time. LeBron beat the greatest team of his time-the warriors. I've got several reasonable facts that'll shut down anyone who says Jordan is the greatest. I'm not taking nothing from MJ. MJ was and still is MJ. Disclaimer: I watched the bulls growing up. I'm not from Chicago, not a North Carolina fan. I do not have an emotional connection to MJ so I'm able to think straight.

He about 4 rings away... which will not happen.

Lmao this is a joke right? They only win by more than 4 pts in the playoffs for the first time and suddenly he is in the discussion?

Bruh Michael played 11 years with the Bulls not 13 max

must be a slow news day lol

Here we go again. We are about to hear the Jordan 6 for 6 in the finals when they should be saying the BULLS are 6 for 6 in the finals. Thats the only argument that can be used against Lebron. Lebron is just a better player simple as that. I think if he faced the competition Jordan faced in the 90's, Lebron would have more rings. Jordan NEVER faced a threat in the 90's like a Golden State or Spurs of today. The Bulls also never went into a series the underdogs. Lebrons team was maybe the favorite what 1 finals of his 7.

jordan 10 nba scoring lebum 1 jordan career scoring avg 30ppg jordan playoff scoring average 33ppg jordan nba defensive player of the year in 1988. LeBron 0 the only reason why lebron will surpass jordan in career playoff total points is beacuse he has played more years and more games than jordan....jordan career playoff scoring ppg is 33ppg compared to lebrons 28ppg. it's not rocket science.

1) Magic (5/9 in Finals against HOF competition) 2) Jordan (6/6 in Finals, but only 1 Ring against Championship Team & I believe Rockets would have beaten the Bulls twice too) 3) Kareem (6 Rings/NBA Top Scorer) 4) Kobe (5/7 in Finals/2008 Gold Medal) 5) Hakeem (2/3 in Finals against HOF competition) 6) Bird (3/5 in Finals against HOF competition) 7) LeBron James (can still move up list) 8) Tim Duncun (Boring but HOF) 9) Wilt Chamberlain (1st Superstar) 10) George Mikan (NBA OG)

Kobe fans were saying he was better than Jordan in 2008-2010 and downplaying Jordan's accomplishments. The same fans are now praising Jordan to downplay Lebron. Bottom line is, Jordan is GOAT but all three are legends.

INDIVIDUALLY LeBron is the GOAT and Jordan is 2nd, people need to be realistic about that, the dominance, the longitivtiy, getting better and better ... his career on the other hand, which is influenced by a lot of things outside of his own capabilities (finals 2015 injuries, bad teams in Cleveland in comparison to Jordan who had Oakley and Pippen in his FIRST 3 SEASONS, Magic who had Kareem IN HIS FIRST, ...), is something different. But even there Jordan is 3 in my opinion, 1. Russel (champion of champions) 2. Kareem (6 rings, top scorer) 3. Jordan (6 for 6, behind Kareem because YOU DON'T GET A PASS FOR RETIRING IN YOUR PRIME, in my eyes it's just the same as losing). And this is coming from a big MJ fan, believe me, you just have to be objective. As a player, leader and maybe even talent, LeBron right now is bigger than MJ on his ultimate peak as a basketball player, but if you look at the complete picture MJ > everyone, don't get it twisted.

Lebron is already the GOAT. Last years finals is all the evidence you need. Lebron beat the best team in the history of the NBA who has two of the best shooters this game has seen. Not only did he beat them. He lead both teams I repeat both teams in scoring, rebounds, assists, steals, and blocks. What more do u want. Who exactly did Jordan beat during his run?

How many times a month for the past how many years have they been asking this question? And why is it even important? Seriously ESPN, you need to let this shit go.

media nowadays are too quick to call anything at the superlative degree, i disagree that last finals was the greatest performance by a team, how can that be the greatest when the cavs were almost beaten, if they swept the warriors that would have been the greatest, the media is a fuckin hypebeast

he's already there wtf

He's getting closer LMFAO YALL DO REALIZE MICHAEL JORDAN WON 3 peat twice do the math 😂😂😂😂😂😂😂

LMFAO! He's already in the discussion!

I don't think lebron will ever pass mj as the goat and I honestly don't want him to, but I don't get why we penalize him for having a losing finals record. In 2007 and 2015, we knew from the beginning that there was no way lebron's team could have won. Not even mj could have won those series if he was in lebrons place. The only finals loss in which they should have and could have won was in 2011

Am i the only one who thinks Kobe comes second????

How Close Is MJ To Being In Discussion For G.O.A.T? LeBron IS THE GOAT

Jordan had scottie. Remember when Jordan left to play baseball? 57 wins to 55. Stop disrespecting Scottie Pippen.

Of all 3 players Kobe had the toughest road to getting to his 5-2 record which folks ignore. He had to consistently go up against the Tim Duncan Spurs (winning record in playoffs vs. Spurs), the Steve Nash Suns, the Dirk Mavs who were ALWAYS great teams and ALWAYS there, and later in his career the Durant-Westbrook-Harden Thunder, the Deron Williams Jazz, that Rockets team, and reminder, that was only to get OUT of the Western Conference. All of those teams are better than anything LeBron ever faced in early rounds. The competition Kobe faced in the early rounds of the playoffs before he even got to the Finals was much more adversity than Jordan's EC and CERTAINLY more than LeBron's cakewalks to the Finals every year. The most adversity LeBron ever faced in the playoffs was that Pacers team. Other than that, he hasn't had to beat anyone of value. LeBron's Heat team had more star power and talent than any of Kobe's post Shaq teams and still they only went 2-2.

Level of competition was way higher during the Jordan more than what lebron faces today. Total garbage!!

Lebron better then jordan fax

They've been discussing it for like a year.

Max THIS SEAOSN said the "Jordan ship" sailed. Now he's switching up lol

6-0 in the FINALS please stop it

Michael- GOAT (tangibles and intangibles), Magic- most dynamic GOAT, Kareem- most unguardable GOAT, Kobe- most skilled and hardworking GOAT, Lebron- all-around and on-off court GOAT...the one commonality is that they all GOATs I wouldn't have a problem with anyone making a case for either of them as the official GOAT...Lebron been in the conversation since last year...he may very well become the GOAT...just respect greatness and be thankful you're witnessing it.

To be better than MJ: Win a game with Ebola (flu game) Get 7+ rings Retire, come back and still dominate Never lose a finals Never let a finals go to game 7 Be more clutch Defeat tougher competition Sell more merch than MJ BEAT MJ 1V1 Jordan>Kobe>who cares afterwards. Kobe will be the only one that is jordan-like. Stop the bullshit! Jordan era was decades ago! And he's still being used as the comparison??

Jordan played with the flu, LeBron got carried off because his legs were cramping. Combine the flu with perspiring, you are severely dehydrated, and EVERYTHING is cramping, but you would still have to force MJ off of that court. No one has MJ's heart, which is what makes him the Greatest. Jerry Reinsdorf wouldn't pay MJ the money he deserved, but Jordan still showed up, because he loves the game of basketball and cares about winning. This is not a dig at LeBron, I'm from Cleveland and he is highly respected there. Michael Jordan wouldn't complain about his team being too top heavy, or him needing rest, he would play the hand he's dealt, and do his thing. Nobody could single-handedly take over a game like MJ. There was, is, and always will be only one Michael Jordan, and nobody will pass him as the Greatest.

They didn't say that he's going to pass him. They're just saying that over the last few seasons he's improved and gotten closer. Most of the commenters hear need to clean out their ears

I swear lebron has a contract wit the media! Lol for real tho

He shouldn't be compared to Jordan,totally different players.Kobe was closer to Jordan then else.

damn m.j is the most protected nba superstar ever. he the only superstar that career only starts when he win rings lls he is 1-9 without pippen, kobe with smush won 3 games in 06.

I am tired of hearing that Michael Jordan is the best player of all time. I have been following the NBA for more than 40 years and I say he was one of the best but not the best. I saw Kareem Abdul-Jabbar play during his prime, and I have yet to see any player better. Kareem won 6 MVPs compared to Jordan's 5 MVPs. Kareem is the all time scorer in NBA History, he has Jordan beat by more than 6,000 points. Kareem is in the top 5 in 3 statistical categories: scoring, rebounds and blocked shots Jordan is in the top 5 in 2 statistical categories points and steals Kareem impacted the game more than Jordan by his mere physical presence by altering shots and discouraging drives to the basket. Kareem's Skyhook shot was the most unstoppable shot in Basketball.

Lebron's dominance has been in a much weaker conference, he left his home team to create a super team (where he started with a loss and ended with a loss) and has a total of 4ls in the finals, all in 14 years. MJ was in the league for 14 years (including Washington), won more games and achieved more. I think these guys have nothing to talk about because there's no comparison

Jordan and LeBron are great cuz Refs let them get away with shit and if they get touched it's an automatic foul. The got the calls which gave them extra confidence on the court.

***The narrative in 2010*** "Kobe is now on Jordan's level" Lbj fans: "Not a chance, the defense was tougher in Jordan's era, Jordan's 6-0, 6 final's MVP's, 5 mvp's etc, etc..." ***The narrative in 2017*** "LeBron is better than Jordan" Lbj fans (again): "Yup, Jordan played in a weaker defensive era, had pippen, got swept in the playoffs, etc, etc..." Me: ???🤔???

It's funny that we live in an era of revisionist history where people either forget or dismiss that Jordan stepped away from basketball to play baseball because his father was MURDERED in a carjacking and MJ was fulfilling his newly deceased father's dream that his son would become a professional baseball player. I saw an episode of Colin Cowherd where Nick Wright was saying Jordan was ran out of the league for gambling and sucked at baseball and that was Jordan taking a "rest", trying to twist it into a defense of Lebron and proof Lebron was superior to Jordan. Sports journalism keeps finding a new low.

I grew up watching the Bulls and the common statement by some is that the Bulls didn't face any competition. I would say these teams below would win a championship in today's game. Lakers (Divac, Johnson, Perkins, Scott, Green, Worthy, etc..) Blazers (Drexler, Kersey, Porter, Robinson, Duckworth, etc..) Indiana Pacers (Miller, Davis Brothers, Rick, Jackson, etc...) Supersonics (Kemp, Payton, Schrempf, Snow, Perkins, etc...) Suns (Barkley, Johnson, Ainge, Dumas, etc...) Jazz (Stockton, Malone, Hornacek, Russell, etc..) Pistons (Thomas, Dumars, Rodman, Dantley, etc..) Knicks (Ewing, Starks, Jackson, Oakley, Mason, etc...) Heat (Hardaway, Bowen, Brown, Majerle, Mashburn, Mourning, etc...) These are teams that they defeated in a series, some of the newer NBA fans don't really understand the competition back then as compared to today's game and also the rules.

Steven A NAILED this debate. 100% correct. Except maybe the Rushmore thing

Lebron isnt going to even catch Kobe and Duncan. Durant and Curry are going to pass Lebron this season

249 points and 3 championships . . . Back in the day teams scored less points per game and there was less possessions

Lebron hairline is fast approaching Jordan.

Im getting so tired of this comparison >: / but imo lebron better jordan wouldn't stop him one on one.

I Respect these guys knowledge.

I still don't get why you compare two different people, with a different position and played in a different era... I mean they're both great players. We should just enjoy their greatness and how much they have done for the game of basketball. That's just a personal thought.

People forget that Jordan retired to play baseball. The man could've had 8 rings with 8 finals mvps

Basketball is way different now than 20 years ago.

Why do people continue to OVERLOOK kobe in this discussion ?

Never!!!!! That ship has sailed. Jordan played 15 seasons, Jordan retired and came back to 3 peat a second time. Queen James already in fourteenth season and no where close to Jordan. Impossible to make up ground.

MJ never had to play against a zonal defence.

MJ played shut down defence and never took any plays off. It helped having Pippen, probably the best defender ever, but in addition to being the best scoring guard ever, he did a lot of other things very well. James is playing in an NBA that, top to bottom is less competitive and where the rules have been created to stop physical contact and increase sorting, because the league think that is what attracts fans. Fact is MJ produced where it counted six for six finals wins and six for six finals mvp

i grew up watching Jordan. He was the ultimate competitor - took his already amazing game up a notch and demanded the same from his teammates - when it came to the playoffs. He refused to lose, and for that I give him the GOAT title. LeBron is an amazing, once-every-50-years talent. But he doesn't have the win-at-all-costs fire that would elevate him to that greatest status.Top five maybe, but not #1.

If Len Bias and Reggie Lewis were alive in that era. Jordan would have been 2-4 in finals or 1-5

Max's opening statement is one of many reasons why lebron will NEVER catch Jordan.. that Dallas series can't MAGICALLY disappear.. there was NEVER a 4th quarter in the finals were MJ didn't want the ball.. ever..

Lebron's losing record in the finals and the choke againts Dallas disqualified him ages ago.. If he can 3peat against the Warriors then people might consider it

The realist thing Steven A ever said.. Don't just jump him over Kobe.

(Stephen A. voice) Wait a minute! You mean to tell me that if the Golden State Warriors, a team coming off their third straight 60+ win season, coming off a first round sweep, doesn't play well in the finals, that diminishes Lebron's greatness??! Have you lost your mind?? He still has to go out there and take care of business!

Kenny Smith said there are 3 type's of lie's, lie's, damn lie's, and stat's.

As it stands now, Jordan has 6 (6/6) rings and Lebron 3 (3/7). Let's say Lebron does get to 6 rings, but it takes him 5 more years to get to 6 rings, making him (6/12). How would he be considered the GOAT over Jordan with twice as many attempts at 6 rings? At some point, doing it in less attempts has to figure into the equation, and not just getting the 6 rings.

2011 and 2014 NBA Finals. Enough said.