How Dangerous Are Knockoff Tool Batteries? Let’s find out! 

He finds a way by having almost three million subscribers and he's monetized, so he's doing okay. LOL

Thanks!

Is there a way to measure RU-vid channel effectiveness? *cue project farm voice* Let’s find out!

@@jakester455 Yes indeed, but he had to do all the good work to grow his channel, and for a long time I’m sure he had to spend more on it than it returned. The fact that it’s financially self-sustaining now is great for everyone, because it allows him to do what he does without bias towards brands or sponsors. It’s a shining example of how somebody can create an honest business that benefits themselves and others through ingenuity, integrity, and dedication.

@@brystmar 🤣🤣🤣

Thank you very much!

Project Farm is the gold standard. Scott has put in the work to get here.

I agree!! I've been saying that for years now!! This man is a legend!!!

in what comparing dated 18650 packs with new tech 21700 packs. and only disclose that in the end..even when weighing, and indicating look at the difference in "quality" , when its 18650 cells vs 21700 cells. maybe you should have informed that its two different techs anybody that have anything with battery will know the difference that 21700 cells have vs 18650.

@@JAKOB1977 _"comparing dated 18650 packs with new 21700 packs."_ Except ... the 5 yr old, 5AH Milwaukee battery also uses 18650 batteries.

Thanks so much!

Thanks so much! Glad to hear!

Amen, love the brotherhood, honor the king, fear God.

@@cosmicallyderivedno

I read this comment in your voice! Love your videos!

​@@azizchaudhry9544thanks, not my voice right now though, I'm in the hospital with a brain injury... Really crazy stuff, but I made it.

This man has his notification box checked..

On the Max Torque test chart, you have the Milwaukee 5AH and 6AH label flipped.

Thank you very much!

Thanks!. That means a lot to me!

Thanks for the suggestion.

Heyy, cool to see you here ThioJoe!

Meh. It really depends on your use case. If you're a pro, yeah, you NEED the real batteries. But these knockoffs will be good enough for 95% of the average homeowner.

@@Techno4more if you are a pro, the Labtec is more productive. 4 Labtec vs 1 milwaukee all day. If you only have $100, Milwaukee can only powers one tools while the Labtec can use two while the other two on the charger.

@sportsonwheelss yeah, if budget is a concern then ok I see what you mean. But if power is your concern, you need the real ones. Especially if we are talking about Dewalt 60v batteries which is what I use

Thank you very much!! I have a LOT of fun testing the claims of manufacturers!

I was just about to leave this same comment! 😂

LOL, that's when manufacturers go into 'pucker mode'.

Never heard this before but yeah makes sense

Thanks for sharing.

Sketchy? How

Just remember that only way to put out a lithium ion battery fire is take the heat away , power cell itself has everything it needs to burn inside it . So dropping battery in bucket of water is most practical , after that the water should be treated as toxic waste . Lithium ion power cells have only few grams of actual lithium, even if it reacts with water , there is so small amount of material its no concern . Problem is that those power cell can get up to 1000°C/1832°F when burning , compared to wood fires burning temp being round 600°C/1112°F

@@pete_lind thanks for the info. i looked it up further an it seems you can estimate lithium content in a battery with a simple formula , grams of Li = 0.3 x Ah

Thanks for the suggestion.

You know he’s gonna get right on that…. 😀

I understand cork is a great sound blocker/absorber and fire proof too@@ProjectFarm

​@@dwaynemcallister7231Rockwool works pretty good.

Thanks!

Thanks for the feedback.

Good point. This could be the most valuable test yet.

So true after that test where the battery Was smoking after being used, I was always scared to charge them Now I am scared to use them not worth it

I use genuine de walt batteries with adapters in all my tools de Walt or not

I always take a look inside eBay/knock-off powered stuff. Some are fine and some are shockingly poor for basic safety design. PCBs need proper trace separation to avoid mains voltage jumping to the low power lines and killing you.

Same feeling I suspect lock makers have when LOCKPICKINGLAWYER reviews their products. Both he and Todd certainly give manufacturers info that if taken under consideration would make their respective products better.

@@hellsfavoritesaltyberserke4724 What are you talking about? Haven't seen any of his videos which were trying to sell something, though I admit I haven't watched any in the last couple months.

You are welcome!

Thanks and you are welcome! Thanks for the feedback.

Thanks! Thanks for the feedback.

yep

Buy 4 Labtec for the price of 1 Milwaukee. Makes my mind up.

@@BoltRM i bought 2 9.0Ah 18v for $90.... they are complete garbage

​@@BoltRMBuying 4 chances for a shop fire for the price of a Milwaukee lol

Thanks!

Yeah, I agree 1000%. But more than or apart from just an award, continued support so Todd can be able to sustain his tests and reviews that are part of an invaluable public service. Todd's videos are a universe better than those silly, non-sensical videos that flood youtube and unbelievably achieve big support despite being useless.

Thanks!

Here's a suggestion for you, best bicycle / motorcycle outdoor covers. Rain / UV protection keeping out / dealing with evaporating moisture / breathability and finally staying put in windy conditions, maybe storability as well?

The silver covers probably work best

Thanks! Thanks for the feedback.

Likewise, you don't get what you don't pay for.

Idk, 3/4 the capacity for 1/4-1/3 the price can be very compelling depending on what you need.

​@emptylog933 a used Milwaukee 5ah battery is $25

@@throbbing1380 But it's a lottery getting a good one

Thanks! Glad to hear!

Thanks and you are welcome! Glad to hear!

Thanks! That means a lot to me!

You are more than welcome! Thank you for so much excellent content

Thank you very much!

@@ProjectFarm - You uncovered a beautiful secret which I had not considered... The genuine batteries are using a larger cell such as the 21mm X 70.0mm lithium cells (that is what the size nomenclature means) for added power. I am also curious if they are using flashlight lithium batteries and not the higher current capable rechargables (but at reduced capacity) which is why Milwaukee is using the 21700 for the added punch. This is another reason why they use special cells in vapes which are made to produce much higher currents. I am also quite surprised that some of these batteries did not self destruct or just plain catch fire. Love your work. I would like to see the USA or EU mandate that the tool manufacturers settle on a standard battery interface and let the manufacturers of batteries and chargers battle it out for the best product, all compatible with each other. The nightmare of most manufacturers... But that is exactly what Android and the PC are... cross compatibility.

Thanks so much!

Thanks so much! This means a lot to me!

Thank you!

Almost 3 million subscribers?

​@@brianwilliams3146Right? He must have been stuck in that truck for a few years.

It's hard to beat almost 3 million subscribers as recognition.

Thanks and you are welcome!

Thanks! Thanks for sharing.

Thank you for sharing!

Second this!

I would agreed to that they do make some noise an aren’t that quick

Yea, dumb knob that works in IT - but I've used Fluidmaster whenever I've needed a replacement. I just checked my main-floor Kohler commode that's seen 18 years of daily use - Fluidmaster 400 series. All original parts - including flapper - Wife and I had the house built, I do all the maint. Unless the Weathertech guys snuck in overnight and changed it out, it's original.

I've been using Fluidmaster 400A for decades. I use the Pro 400 now but it's still pretty much the same. Only big differences, the pro series has a plastic flow restrictor in the shank vs a rubber one in the standard ones. I recommend removing the rubber (corkscrew shaped) restrictor from the shank before installing. If not, it will dramatically slow the fill of the tank.

Thanks for the feedback.

The Labtec would be a great value for most people who just use it for Quarter inch impact jobs and regular drill use. I build cabinets and we have alot of these cheap batteries off amazon, for the most part they work just fine for our uses. Every once in awhile you will get a very weak dud, but overall getting 4 batteries for the piece of one is a no brainer.

Can always replace the cells with higher quality ones, as long as the bms and case are decent.

That is where the savings are usually lost in longevity battery cycle life.

Probably have a shorter life due to being discharged deeper than original batteries because of the lack of internal protective circuitry

Thanks!

Thank you!

Thanks for the tip!

@Magrath For highest accuracy, a scope with the current clamp or a shunt resistor is the best bet.

​@@wychowanek90Exactly, DMMs can't sample short occurrences of high values.

It looks like the clamp is not fully closed, no way to get a good reading there.

Exactly, I noticed that too, but after the the first 2 batteries he put the clamp correctly@@PropellerSteve

Thank you

Thanks and you are welcome!

I could see using the battery as a cheap shell, I've seen people make a short wire to a larger external battery pack done before, or battery clips for the 12v batteries

WAIT THEY HAVE THIS?!

Agreed! But it is almost impossible to see that happens in the USA any time soon. The US Companies tell the government what to do, not the other way around.

@@web3982 dont be so sure about European goverments!

@@Ariccio123 Not yet but talks about it

What? We dont have this? I cant use my bosch batteries in a dewalt or mectools

Thanks for sharing.

Ugh, I hate how much brands are pushing cordless tools these days. Most of the time a corded tool with an extension cord is just as good or better, but at a significantly lower cost with much better longevity. Which is probably why so many companies want you to buy cordless... so they can make you keep spending money on new batteries and tools.

@@torinireland6526 i totally agree that a corded tools durability trumps cordless. I maintain a steel fabrication shop that also has Ironworkers constructing that steel. In a building working at a dedicated station- hands down corded tools, but myself and the field guys, having an infinitely long extension cord is not always an option. Sure they have welders and can run extension cords from that, but then there is the time it takes to unwrap/wrap up the cords. When you have a crew of 5-12 guys making 25-50$ an hour standing around because an extension cord got cut (not to mention all the time it takes to properly route an extension cord through walkways in a building to comply with OSHA) the $ it costs for a battery pales in comparison. For the home brew guy making a mess in the garage, it IS nice to have both, especially when you have say 3-4 different tools doing a job, the heavy hitters (grinders/saws etc) sure corded all the way, but having 1/4" and 3/8" impacts, drills and flashlights easily swapped using the same battery... well time is valuable on the weekends. Not to mention you dont have to worry about dragging a cord across or through vehicles around corners and the such. Both corded and cordless have their places. I started out with all corded tools and the aggravation that accompanies those problems are equally rivalled by the cost of cordless. Dragging an extension cord 100' in the air sucks but so does lugging around 3-4 batteries that same 100' in the air and only 1 left is charged.

Thanks for watching and subscribing!

Great information! Thank you

When you say fake, do you mean counterfeit, or do you mean cheap no name brands?

Thanks! Thanks for the feedback.

Thanks for sharing.

My biggest concern is that as they aren't honest enough about the output ratings, while they might be a decent deal and properly safe now.... What is going to ensure that it stays that way 2/3/5/10yrs down the road?

@@slightlyevolved I’ve had mine a little over a year now with no issues. And at 1/4 the price of the genuine Milwaukee batteries, I’m not too concerned about how long they Last.

You are welcome!

Thank you!

Thank you for sharing!

Thanks!

Thanks for sharing.

Thank you!

For clamp meter it's very important to fully close one othervise it will show wrong meaurmens, that i conclude first 2 measurements of short circut is wrong.

@@bc-nr5tj I have a similar meter and for a 20 amp load cracking it open as shown in the video dropped the measured value to about 10 amps

@@Merv-Bob It's really about the location in the open, a little to the left, no result, in the middle, 50%, a little to the right, 70%.

Thanks! Thanks for sharing.

Be especially careful with Dewalt batteries. Unlink, well, every other battery that is sane, a few of their models do not have the BMS circuit on the battery, but in the tool. So if you get an unofficial battery that does not properly deal with that fact, you could have more excitement than you plan for.

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Thanks and you are welcome!

Thank you!

Yes, the OEM batteries usually perform better, but are they 2-3 times better? Does the performance justify the much higher price?

Thanks, will do!

Another part of the equation is what was the human cost for those knock off batteries? China is notorious for its human rights violations and outright enslavement of those citizens deemed less than worthy. I prefer to keep a clear conscience.@@brownro214

Thanks for sharing!

Thanks and you are welcome!

If you know how to do the home Depot hacks, the Ryobi 40v batteries and power supply will give you a lot more juice. I'm a Milwaukee guy. But I recently learned to accept Ryobi as they are very versatile and fill in nice gaps left by Milwaukee. It started with an AMAZING deal on a 10in miter saw. I think it's the highest end on their 18v line. That was followed by the very nice and compact rotary station. The more expensive one which I got on clearance for about $30. And as of recent, their new swift clean carpet scrubber. Not the handheld one. The one with the hose. But hand tools like the impact, drill, etc, I'll stick with Milwaukee. Especially anything else where the battery becomes a huge obstruction like the cordless ratchet.

Thanks for the feedback. Thanks for the suggestion.

I rebuild power tool packs. Done Dewalt, Milwaukee, Ryobi, Hitachi, Snap On and Craftsman. When you build your own, it's all about the cells. If you use Samsung 25R, Sony VTC5, LG, EVE, etc, they will be as good as a factory pack, if not better..all about the cells..

Comparing 21700 vs. 18650 is bogus though

@davidbarker3591 obviously comparing 18650 and 21700 isn’t ideal, but see the thing is, that’s what came in the knock off batteries and the 6ah Milwaukee had the 21700 you noticed the 5ah Milwaukee had 18650 also. The test was comparing OEM battery pack to knock offs… and he did a very thorough and informative analysis..

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Or some governments to be strict about safety standards on industrial tools being sold to the consumers.

Thanks and you are welcome!

Thanks and you are welcome!

You are welcome!

Thanks so much!!

I don't actually buy knock off replacements.. BUT I have some no name devices that probably/maybe come with dodgy batteries to begin with. Like the polishing machine I use once a year or the small cordless screwdriver that never sees hard work.. or some random work lights

Thanks! Thanks for the feedback.

Thank you for the video idea!

Lye. I used spray oven cleaner (with sodium hydroxide - there are a lot that don't have it anymore) on my driveway. Spray it on, walk away. I usually did it twice, and then the next couple of rains made the stains vanish. Pressure washing worked too. Even the huge old oil stain my wife made by closing the garage door on a 5 quart bottle of oil. I tried gel drain cleaner, but it didn't work as well.

Try cat litter to absorb excessive oil or grease. Then using a cheap oven cleaner on your grease spots, spray heavy amount on and leave for min. of a half hr or more at a moderate temp (70°s) keep the kids and pets away, then use an old broom to scrub and water to rinse. May have to use several times, depending on how much oil and grease is built up.

Add paint removal to that test. I struggle to get dried or semi-dried paint off brushed concrete.

@@tbelding the only thing with using lye and walking away, is that a pet or a child could accidentally get into it and could cause serious medical problems with acid burns. Or someone could walk in it and carry it into the house on their shoes and ruin your carpet. Safety first....

Thanks! Thanks for the feedback.

Where do you recommend to get reputable cells?

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Thanks! Thanks for the constructive feedback.

Thank you for sharing!

Thanks! Thanks for the suggestion.

Thanks and you are welcome!

Great point!

You're not always safe with oem though. We take all batteries off chargers at night. A guy not that far away lost his shop charging tool batteries while he wasn't there. It's not worth the risk just unplug them in the evening.

Yes and no... Generally speaking... Buying the manufacturer's battery is the best idea you can have, however if and very much if, you can find an knockoff battery that actually holds up to the standards of the oem battery or is better... It's going to be worth buying... But that's a very strong if and I don't know of any real legitimate options for a battery that's not oem. Moreover.. The proprietary nature of tool batteries should be done away with. That's the main issue at the end of the day.

Better yet is to never let something charge unattended. OEM means nothing, even 'good' OEMS can have batches of inferior cells or suffer from a lack in qc. The only benefit OEM's often can give is in their warranty, but then again aren't we talking about something where you do not want to ever use warranty on? On the other hand, knock off brands which don't specify which cells come in their packs, or the specifications of their bms, you better keep clear. But there are, especially in ebike batteries for instance, also plenty of 'smaller manufacturers' which might not have name recognition but are still using top of the line components / cells with a good battery management system and good quality control. And even there, buying from the few 'good builders', you don't leave your charger unattended over night ( in your house... ). If you need to charge overnight, take your battery off and charge them in a metal firesafe container. And add a timer to your mains charger so that it cuts of mains in x ( charging Ah x battery capacity + some room for balancing ) time. Ofc, your charger should stop charging.. and your battery bms should prevent issues as well... sadly both can fail. And lithium fires are not something you want inside your house, those fumes are not exactly healthy.

I’ve got a dewalt 18v battery that’s been on the charger for 7 yrs, 24-7. Sometimes I use it to power my 5 3/8 skill saw. It will only make about 4-5 cuts on a 1x4 board before it dies.

I'm confused about the "not worth it" as you can buy four times the batteries getting well over double the capacity for the same amount of money. If Milwaukee had a 2 for one sale, you'd arbitrarily be choosing to ignore that and buy (less than) one instead. I'm curious as to why?

@@duckswan9936 Not the OP, but you may have missed that they didn't just have lower capacities so they ran for fewer minutes, but they couldn't provide the same peak current flow much less sustain it. That really mattered for things like the angle grinder. You might have also missed the safety aspects. Like the battery that started smoking while he was using it. I've seen lithium fires first-hand. I don't want one happening in my hand. Personally I'll only be considering cheap batteries for lower-draw non-sustained uses now, which means I probably won't buy them.

​​@@KhanmotsI'm in the same boat. I always use genuine batteries in large power tools, but in less demanding tasks like lights the knockoff batteries seem to work well, so long as you don't put them on the fast charger.

​@duckswan9936 depends on your needs. I have about 10 genuine and 8 fakes. The fakes never last as long but at 1/4 the price, I don't mind switching them out more often. If your a occasional user, I think there fine. Had some for 4 years of daily use. No issues yet.

Yea i don't know bud. Im a dewalt user and i got 2 knock offs and a charger for 80 bucks. After 3 months of use im still grabbing the knock offs out of the truck first before 1 of my 10 dewalt batteries that range from 4 years old to 1 year old. So far they have been pretty worth it to me

There are battery kit case for all kinds of tools, so you can put Panasonic/SONY/Samsung or other power batteries in it, some might out perform than the genuine one’s a lot,and a lot cheaper.

@@jerryyu583 Is there a good search term to find such kits for sale?

Thanks so much!

​@@AndyGneissYou need to research the individual cells and buy them, Id recommend BatteryMooch reviews, last I checked Samsung, Sanyo, Panasonic are easiest to get. Sony makes the best lithium batteries overall but they are straight up Unobtainium like the discontinued VTC4-6

Same, and with different brands as well. Todd has done similar tests in the past and it's always enlightening. Certainly better value in the brand name batteries. But, I wonder if you could buy multiple of the knock off brands and get a lot more run time, even if lower power, then just 1 brand name.

@@Bakachu7 If you can do that, how come name battery can be called a better value ?

Thanks so much!

Great video idea! Thank you

Would be a legit product if they were simply honest in the Ah rating.

Thanks!

​@@michael931Right? $22 for a 4Ah is pretty dang competitive against a $90 6Ah pack. But they just had to be liars.

@@ToastyMozart You can't sell anything on amazon being honest. unless they're going to come out with a "project farm says this is good value" badge or something, if they kept their listing but just lowered their specs to honest level, that would not drive any sales

Sadly with knockoff you never know when they may decide to change stuff inside so you may have a good one. Then later buy a new one and it trash.

Milwaukee is usually the best _if money is no object,_ but looking over the progression of power tools the last couple of years, I'd probably go Hercules if I had to start over and stick to one platform.

Thanks!

Thanks! Thanks for sharing.

Thanks!

Thanks and you are welcome!

Thanks and you are welcome!

Thank you for sharing!

Great point!

i use them in my vape

Any lithium ion battery is dangerous if punctured

@@Robert-Wilson True, but watch some of the 18650 videos on here....

Thnks!

You are welcome! Glad to hear!

Thanks for the feedback.

Thanks for sharing.

@@ProjectFarm ☺☺

Thanks!