Myth Busting! Can You Restore a Dead Car Battery With Welder? Let's Settle This! 

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Lol, I buy tools based off Terry’s reviews, I also brought some fellow tradesmen to this channel. There has been lots of Job site conversations regarding the Project Channel.

@@ProjectFarm If you want to try this for tool batteries, I've got a dead DeWalt 20V I could send in.

​@@HariSeldon913 those are lithium ion so it's a completely different process and chemistry. And the older ones were Ni-Cd. I can't remember the last time I saw lead-acid power tools.

He’s doing the lords work. Truly

A lead battery should never be left discharged which causes rapid sulfation. Also, it can freeze and bust when discharged. Lead wants to be fully charged unlike lithium which is happy around half charged. Every day a lithium is at full charge it's life is shortened. Even stopping the charge at 4.10 instead of 4.20 per cell can increase the lifespan as much as 4 times.

Thanks for sharing.

So rinsing and flushing the battery could extend it's life dramatically? When I do this on a 200amp charger I've had a couple batterys that have a dead cell that will come back around but usually only temporary. I have tons of cars so never enough batteries. Do you think building a setup to safely flush and maybe filter the electrolyte would save some dead cell batteries?

@@jasonbirch1182 I wouldn't say dramatically, but yes professional battery recyclers/refurbishers do flush out the batteries as well as high amp charging/reconditioning. Battery refurbishing used to be more common than it is now due to manufacturing scale and consumerism. Modern batteries use much thinner plates to both be cheaper and to fit more in, which makes them harder to refurbish. I believe there is a way to filter and clean the old battery acid too. However the problem is there are many different ways a battery can fail or go bad. Every time you charge and discharge, lead is transferred from one plate to the other. That means the plates are constantly changing shape. It might only be slightly but it adds up over time. Also the sulfates in the bottom contain lead that didn't make it all the way across or didn't stick very well, so the plates are constantly getting thinner and smaller meaning less surface area. When the battery is charged there's a higher concentration of acid so it's harder for the water to freeze. When the battery is dead the concentration is lower so it's easier to freeze which will also misshapen the plates or potentially crack the plastic. There's also a separator membrane or mesh between the plates that could deteriorate or get contaminated. Finally the plates are tightly packed in there, closer than you think, so it'll take a lot of agitation to flush between them, and multiple flushes to get everything from the bottom out. So it ends up being a lot of work for no guaranteed results. It'd almost be easier to open the battery up and wipe the plates off but at that point it's just a bit more work to melt the lead down, roll it into sheet, and cut new plates from the sheet.

@@jasonbirch1182 But also when you do flush it, you refill it with fresh 50-50 acid water mix and so having fresh fluids at the proper concentration could potentially help too. Many people, myself included, commented on this video that after he flushed it out with Epsom salt he had to flush the salt out then refill with fresh acid. But he either didn't know, forgot, or maybe didn't have any fresh acid

Thanks!

you forgot to mention the dry sense of humour :-) Cousin Eddy always wants something! lol One of my fave vids was driving back and forth many many times on a lawnmower towing varying weights. They were shot from afar and edited consistently so was really effective at showing poor old project farm working 96 hours a day to make sure the test was thorough.

You are welcome! Thanks for sharing.

Thank you for sharing!

I would agree. Not sure the rejuvenation will last all that long.

​@@gordonwedman3179 it should last long. The reason the cell was damaged is due to a short between the plates in the cell. By using the welder with high current it'll melt off the shorted pieces. The main reason these batteries lose performance is due to sulfate build up on the plates. By removing the short using the welder, you're left with the sulfate build up which could be bad or not too bad. I.e a sulfated battery that has a shorted cell can possibly be improved using a welder to remove the short, but you're still left with the sulfate buildup

​@mennims the biggest killer of batteries is short cycles. Should be 30 minutes running or battery never really fully charges. Especially in colder climates.

Would be interesting to see if draining them and then refilling with either 1) distilled water & 2) sulphuric acid after the welder treatment also provides an additional uptick in performance as all the crude in the bottom would be removed

Good Point! Thanks for sharing. Glad you were fortunate!

Oh, man, you had a rough day! 😬 I'm also glad you are okay!

The battery definitely charged you with assault & battery

You nearly had to change your name to EyeOpenNoFear!

@@daewooparts I see what you did there . "Grinning"

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Thanks for the feedback.

How much current we talking here?

​@@RogerPackI have done it after filling with distiled water and starting voltage 12.4. 1st cycle 25 amps for 5 minutes (1 cell didnt buble) 13.1v 2nd cycle 30 amps for 5 minutes (all cells buble and electrolite in 5 turned black in one turned gray) 12.1v 3rd cycle 35 amps for 5minutes (all cells bubles equally) 13.1v 4th cycle 40 amps for 5 minutes (Little bubles) 13.1v Battery runs quite good and holds 12,4 v even if left for 2 weeks in car. I do not know how much it will last but i am happy with results. Now i think if it would be better if i have flush it with distiled water after welder cycles and then fill it up with fresh electrolite. My battery is 2014 Chrysler OEM battery 80ah 640A

Thanks for the video idea.

​@@ProjectFarmI second his idea.

that sounds like the makings for a Project Farm Movie given how much testing that would need, but I'm not opposed to sitting here and watching an hour and a half of fuse testing and popping.

I like this idea too. I want to know if a cheap Chinese fuse blows at 6A instead of 5A or if it just randomly blows whenever the hell it feels like it. If it says 5A, can it do 4A continuously or is it always slowly blowing?

@@shawn576 my understanding is that the fuse is designed to blow at that set amperage. Regardless of how close it is. There is a video someone on RU-vid of someone testing a 20 or 25 amp fuse and having it hold nearly 100 amps before popping

how much time would you leave the battery on the high amp engine start mode?

I remember buying batteries with 11 or 12 years warranty. Now best we can get is 5 years warranty.

What are the details of the "high amp" maintenance/recovery process? Looks like 6 times 5 minutes at 100A.

Thanks! Thanks for sharing.

@@marcelo403polo2 Most batteries have a "free replacement" warranty and no pro-rated warranty beyond that. I remember when the warranty was 80-90 months with a 1,2,3, or 4 year free replacement period. I have heard the only difference between the cheap batteries and the more expensive batteries is the distance from the lead plate grid to the bottom of the battery.

Thanks! Thanks for the suggestion.

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Thanks, will do!

Thanks so much!

Thanks, will do!

You are sooo right !

Thanks!

I was just about to say that. You have to drain the salt mixture out and replace with battery acid.

Can you please explain the chemistry and why acid is required rather than salt water? Thanks.

Thanks for the constructive feedback.

​@the upscriber with sulfuric acid it creates a process that is chemically reversible. When discharging the lead combines with the acid to create lead oxide which is deposited on the other set of plates, when charging the opposite happens.

@@theupscriber65 Ask ChatGPT nobody on youtube comments has the time: Certainly! A lead-acid battery is a type of rechargeable battery commonly used in vehicles, uninterruptible power supplies (UPS), and other applications. The chemistry behind a lead-acid battery involves the interaction between lead and lead dioxide electrodes, sulfuric acid (H2SO4) electrolyte, and the production of electrical energy. In a lead-acid battery, each cell consists of two electrodes: a lead dioxide (PbO2) positive electrode and a lead (Pb) negative electrode. These electrodes are immersed in a diluted sulfuric acid solution, typically with a concentration of around 30-40%. The sulfuric acid acts as the electrolyte, providing ions for the electrochemical reactions to occur. During the discharge process, the lead dioxide electrode reacts with the sulfuric acid, producing lead sulfate (PbSO4), while the lead electrode reacts with sulfuric acid to form lead sulfate as well. The overall reaction can be represented as follows: Positive electrode: PbO2 + H2SO4 + 2H+ + 2e- → PbSO4 + 2H2O Negative electrode: Pb + H2SO4 → PbSO4 + 2H+ + 2e- As lead sulfate is formed on both electrodes, the concentration of sulfuric acid decreases. This leads to a decrease in the voltage of the battery and ultimately its capacity to deliver electrical energy. When a lead-acid battery is recharged, the electrochemical reactions are reversed. Applying an external electrical current to the battery causes the lead sulfate to break down into lead and lead dioxide, and the sulfuric acid concentration is replenished. This process allows the battery to be reused multiple times. Now, to address your question about the use of acid instead of salt water in a lead-acid battery, it comes down to the specific chemistry and the requirements for the battery's functioning. While salt water (sodium chloride solution) can conduct electricity to some extent, it does not provide the necessary ions and chemical reactions for the lead-acid battery to work efficiently. The sulfuric acid in a lead-acid battery plays several crucial roles. Firstly, it provides the necessary ions (H+ and SO42-) that participate in the electrochemical reactions at the electrodes. Secondly, it facilitates the formation of lead sulfate on both electrodes during discharge. Finally, during the recharging process, the sulfuric acid allows the lead sulfate to break down, replenishing the acid concentration and restoring the battery's capacity. In summary, the specific chemistry and electrochemical reactions involved in a lead-acid battery necessitate the use of sulfuric acid as the electrolyte rather than salt water. The acid is essential for the functioning, efficiency, and reusability of the battery.

Thank you very much!

This channel, Scoutcrafter and Catus Maximus tool review channel.

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"Very impressive!"

Just never do it with a lithium battery. Then you will get a very sudden surprice.

@@matsv201 free fireplace

@@LatvianVideo IKR and while a lithium jumper is probably really good insurance, I've watched enough lithium fire videos to not even want to keep one in the trunk near the gas tank, would try to find a place in the engine compartment to secure it. Probably overcautious of me.

Fact!

Thanks!

I've chosen tools based on his recommendations already. Great tests with real life applications.

That could easily be his retirement plan. If he finally agreed to sponsor products, I guarantee you there are companies that would pay him MILLIONS to have his seal of approval.

If theres no white or clear osh looking flatly rolled up stuffs where the water goes or is held in then fhats kind of worrisome for how visible the freely ,oving liquid or otherwise its water is fwiw ykwis

Additionally, every time I run it on any of my car batteries, the battery will test higher cranking amps afterwards. Usually 5%-20%.

Thanks! Thanks for sharing.

How long to you leave your desulfator on your batteries?

Thanks!

I'd never heard of the epsom salt thing before, but was also confused by not refilling with acid.

Yup, I also expected the Epsom salt solution to be replaced with sulphuric acid before finishing up.

I thought the epsom salts were just supposed to be added to the battery with the acid still in.

Wouldn't Sodium hydroxide be a better option for cleaning the plates?

@@benjaminhenry5869 That isn't a thing afaik. Sodium chloride is table salt. Hydrogen chloride is hydrochloric acid.

Thank you!

Thanks for the suggestion.

America’s Test Kitchen did this very test. Probably not as thorough as PF would be though.

Thanks, will do!

Very good question. Johnson Controls is one of the big battery producers. Something to be aware of, even though a battery company makes several brands, they are made to each designers specifications. Some people believe they are the same with a different sticker on it but this is not the case. Some of the designs are poor, others are great. Food services is another example. People see the same food delivery truck (like Sysco) at a McDonalds, Duncan Donuts, Subway and a steak house believing they start with the same product. They do Not! Each purchases different grades with different price scales and growers... Huge difference.

I can charge a battery to where it is at or above the cranking amps. However, it won't hold a charge for more then a few days. So for me, I just go out and get a new battery. Yes, it cost me $225.00. However, it's worth it to know you don't have to worry about a battery being dead when you need it and if you get 4 years out of it, that's a cheap investment in the "scheme of things" for a piece of mind.

@@trvman1 Keep in mind that driving a car will never completely charge a battery. Test this the next time you end your drive and place a charger on the battery, it will be a period of time before the full charge is complete. Lead-acid batteries love to be held at full charge and will last the longest if kept on a float charge whenever not in use, even overnight. Doing that can extend battery life to several times that of batteries just left to their own fate. Batteries are expensive so I do what I can to extend their life. Each year I take an internal resistance measurement and compare that to previous measurements. A significant increase in resistance warns that a battery is entering into the downward stretch of its life. I have one motorcycle battery still going strong at 14 years old and still testing great, another just replaced with the original lasting 10 years. One car battery that's now 5 years old, another at just about 4 years old. All testing great.

@@trvman1 I can run a small block off a lawn battery, 22$ and If Im feeling spicy, walmart sells a 50lb Battery at around 55$

Great information! Thank you

Yeah. I'm not sure if he missed something, or really tried to run a battery on pure salt water.

There's a young man on YT who's started with new batteries and used an amount of alum as well with the Epsom salt where he noted the voltage is lower, though can handle more discharge cycles and therefore acts more like a deep cycle battery.

​@@ProjectFarm I believe flushing w baking soda was detrimental. Just flush w distilled water then add the Epson salt mix. Epson salt leaches sulphur off the plates and puts it into solution. If u going to use baking soda then refill w sulphuric acid.

There are morons who think the Epsom salts themselves are a new, superior type of battery. That's what he's following, so much idiotic misinformation. Epsom salts do nothing except maybe help out desulfating, at a cost of ruining your electrolyte and forcing you to replace it.

Thanks and you are welcome!

Thanks and you are welcome! Thanks for sharing.

Thanks for sharing.

the explosion risk is mostly from the fact that those bubbles you see coming from the cells are hydrogen, which is very flammable. I've actually had a battery explode when it was under a cover and being charged, some spark must've formed and absolutely obliterated the battery and thank god I wasn't near that thing. Also since that hydrogen escapes when charging the battery, you should check the level and fill up the cells with distilled water to keep the level above the minimum

The danger of injury from explosion can certainly be mitigated by getting someone else to do it. Preferably in another neighborhood. 😂

I was. Sweet project cars has touted this for awhile, among others. But he's very specific about which welder to use (and kindly provides a link) but the truth is it's part science part magic part luck. One thing is FOR SURE extreme caution must be exercised it's not hard to get hurt if one is not careful. Very careful.

I want to add that ventilation and safety gear is ALWAYS important.

Thanks! Thanks for the feedback.

Thanks!

Thank you for sharing!

The principle is the high voltage of the welder causes the outer layers of the lead plates to melt and shed, thus exposing fresh lead to the acid. Problem is modern batteries are using less and less lead, so it doesn't work as well as it did 'back in the day'.

@@LordFalconsword seems like certain brands use more lead, according to this video. The autocraft seems the best

​@@ProjectFarm I wonder if the welder would work on those batteries that wasn't tried on it as a test. The desulfater tested one, zap that one with the welder and see if the results change.

@@LordFalconsword Fascinating! I’ve got numerous welders but never crossed the mental bridge this could be ‘used’ in this fashion without serious risk(s). So creative!

Great suggestion! Thank you

Explosives!

@@jimmyvaught YESSS

That would be great!

Do cost comparisons, including renting a stump grinder. My taco has a trailer hitch so I rented a towable stump grinder. Not only did it make mince meat of some 10 stumps, it was hella fun. Don't forget to include the fun factor.

Thanks and you are welcome! Thanks for the feedback.

Thanks!

Thanks for the video idea.

​@@ProjectFarmso long as you don't say the word battery 89 times in 12 minutes... Lol! I'm sure it was an editing nightmare, but you sure pushed the limit on overemphasis on this one. Great video either way!

Thank you for sharing!

Thanks so much!

Thanks and you are welcome!

You are welcome! Thanks for the suggestion.

@@ProjectFarm Yes please, hope you test Tajima's also

It would be a super long term test I'm thinking, but very valuable!

Thank you!

Thank you!

Thanks for the suggestion.

Rule of thumb is every 10C (18F) you go up in ambient temperature above 25C, the life of the battery is cut in half. This is complicated by placement under the hood, but many cars now have them under the seat or in the trunk in part because the temperature is less variable. But the interior of an AZ car left outside is still probably 30C over design life temperature.

Thanks for the video idea.

”For what will it profit a man if he gains the whole world, and loses his own soul?“ Mark‬ ‭8‬:‭36‬ ‭NKJV‬‬ “For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life.”John‬3‬:‭16‬ ‭NKJV‬‬ “that if you confess with your mouth the Lord Jesus and believe in your heart that God has raised Him from the dead, you will be saved.”Romans‬10‬:‭9‬ ‭NKJV‬‬

Thank you very much!

I’d like to see options or at least attempts to bring back SLA (AGM) batteries. I’ve had good luck with prying off the thin plastic too which exposes the little rubber caps (pressure reliefs). Simply pull the little caps off with needle nose pliers and add a small amount distilled water via syringe. Leave caps off and hit them with some amps for a few quick cycles then a slow charge at 1/10 Capacity overnight.

All the automotive or large garden equipment batteries I see are still open cap. They just make the caps MUCH more flush to hide them, because obviously the inside of the engine compartment must be made beautiful. That reminds me, since my car was totalled, and I pulled the battery, I should open it up and check the electrolyte levels.

I have access to tons of bad AGM motorcycle batteries, if PF wants to do a test like this I could send him some

Those maintenance free junk is just another topic of 'remove options to repair'. Just glue it shut or glue a cover on and they have no option to fill them back up. Where I was working at a shop, the standard procedure war to all was top of the batteries when a vehicle came in for inspection. But seeing now 2 to 3 year old batteries die due to the missing maintenance option is such a waste of recourses

Those modern batteries are still open batteries but with a welded on lid. You can pry it open.

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He’s way way way better than Brandon, don’t let’s go him 😂

@@billybowman3891 I have been posted that saying for years before that "person" on this channel

@@NITROUSnBIASPLYS well that makes all the difference then doesn’t it. Sorry to interrupt your tradition. Let’s go you 😆

Thanks for the suggestion.

Thanks for the feedback.

agree since starting to use these 20 yrs ago i have greatly increased battery life in my mowers, one got 15 yrs and still cranks, the sulfate from plates will eventually build up in bottom andruin battery, have yet to try reviving by removing acid and using baking soda. then rinsing and restoring with new acid

@@1toolaholic At that time, I had considered doing restores on the battery bank. But, in the long run, that would have cost me much more in my time that the actual cost of a new set. One thing that really concerns me now are these "new" Lithium "deep cycle" batteries. Now there's a term of contradiction! By their very nature, Lithiums do NOT like to be DEEP cycled! Plus, having those on a solar charging system will shorten their lives as Lithium doesn't like to be charged thousands of time. I think people who buy those costly batteries will regret their decision in the future.

lol. Thanks

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You are correct! Weak batteries fry motors and solenoid contacts. I don't do it (mechanic since the later '70s, jets to chainsaws and more).

Thanks!

Great point!

And baking soda. Maybe a cellphone too! 😉✌️😎

@@gus473 And a band-aid! 😂😊

@@gus473 cellphone, with mother on speed dial

Tub of baking soda water nearby too. Face shield is a 100% necessity. There are pictures of engine bays pretty much torn apart

Thank you very much!

Corn syrup? Does it help to prevent oxidation?

@@lassediscovers1813 I think that's the idea, it's actually put on after terminating the cables, maybe making an oxygen barrier at the mating surface? I have access to industrial no-ox so that's what I use lol

@@lassediscovers1813 Maybe, but it sure makes them taste better!

@@n1r0l They took all the tasty lead out of paint, gotta chew on battery terminals these days

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Thanks for sharing.

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Depend on welder, my welder starts from 17 V at 20 amps up to 26 volts at 200 amps

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you learn something new from this guys videos yay😃

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I have a CTEK battery charger. I love it. I also have Clore Automotive PL2320. Another great battery charger I love the 10 amp and 20 amp cycle. I feel as if the 10 AM cycle is the best.

Thanks! Thanks for sharing.

I don't get this batteries aren't cheap these days. I the price of a decent 75 Ah battery on groceries every weekend and on average about every two three days.

@@Axel_Andersen why are you comparing the price of a car battery to groceries?

@@TheBlaert Because everything is relative, there is no absolute expensive or cheap, you need to relate them to other things you use money for in life. If I can get a car battery for the price of 8 jars of Ben and Jerry that my children want to have daily I do not consider the car battery expensive. I do consider B&J expensive ;)

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Thanks!

Thanks for the feedback!

Thanks so much!

@@ProjectFarm you're welcome. I trust your work.

Thanks for the feedback.

However a dying battery can overload a charging system especially when it has a shorted cell. As a motorcycle mechanic (where batteries tend to be undersized for obvious reasons) I've seen that fairly often. I load test my batteries (load testers are cheap being basically a resistance wire, switch and meter) and marginal ones get recycled. Batteries are expensive but charging system parts are brutal and regulators/alternators never fail at a convenient time.

Welding is a great skill!

Thank you!

welder blasts the impurities off the lead plates and internal plate connections

You are welcome! Thanks for the suggestion.

Thanks for the feedback.

Thanks!

Epson salt is Magnesium Sulfate which is an electrolyte

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Thanks! Thanks for the suggestion.

The dizzying pace left me, well, Dizzy.

Thanks for the feedback.

Thanks and you are welcolme!

Thanks! Thanks for the suggestion.

Thanks!

Thanks for the feedback.

It also depends on state of charge. Battery electrolyte is chemically different depending on the charge. A fully dead battery has no sulfuric acid in it and the electrolyte is just water.

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yes, he should have don refilling with sulfuric acid.

I noticed this too. The Epson salts are supposed to remote the lead sulfate that is reducing the CCA on the plates. You need to drain and refill with fresh acid. Hopefully he can do a follow up video where he does this.

This is what I was wondering as well, how can removing the acid and replacing it with epsom salts water restore a battery? I would think that using baking soda to remove the sulfates off the plates, rinse a few times and then replace with fresh acid followed by a charge cycle is what is needed. @@Rockjob

@@nekbiodieselworks In some other videos, they just mix an epsom salt solution with the battery acid--seems like you should be able to just dissolve epsom salt into the acid and add as much distilled water as you need to top it off.

Kind of concerning ... how much does this guy really know . Back to the old adage " don't believe any / everything on the internet "

Thanks! Thanks for the video idea.

I have killed mine on the vine with neglect because I have too many cars. Ones that are maybe 2 years old just won't charge up.

Yep from vibration and heat. AGM and LiFeP batteries are largely unaffected