How Did the Guild Discover Spice? The Possible Alien Origin of Sandworms 

Never underestimate the human drive to find new and exotic things to get absolutely blitzed on.

“Ain’t nothing here but worms and cinnamon smelling powder” “well can we smoke it?”

The Spice Melange gives off a odor like that of cinnamon. Anyone arriving on Arrakis for the first time would have noticed that smell and wonder where it was coming from. Even breathing in the unrefined spice dust could have had immediate effects on the consciousness of those sensitive to it's properties.

"Was it aliens? Ancient astronaut theorists say yes."

Pre-guild explorers found the planet. Found a spice blow. Collected samples for analysis. On a dare some person tasted the samples and got a mind opening experience. Convinced others to try some. Spice / drug trade starts.

I think the sand worms were a once sentient species that chose their 'golden path' or their variation of it.

The Spice isn't just a "substance", otherwise some chemists of the future would have been able to synthesize it. Considering how good our chemists are today, in 20,000 years I wouldn't imagine any organic molecule would be so difficult to manufacture. Consider, the only attempt to make Spice artificially that was even close to being successful came from the Tleilaxu, a race known for their specialty of cloning. This leads me to believe that the Spice is more than just a chemical; it is actually alive, perhaps a spore of the Sandtrout. If it was only a chemical, it would be easy to make, but the spark of life is never easy to create in a lab, even with 20,000 years of experience. So the reason the reason that the Spice changes the physiology so much, for example the Guild Navigators, is because it is a symbiosis of human and Sandtrout spores. Like a lower level version of the change that happened to God Emperor Leto.

The Guild did not discover the Spice.... the Spice created the Guild

I always thought spice did not make space travel possible, but the precognition allowed for travel safely. It’s precognition allowed those to see collisions and change the outcome. So a pilot could have been under the influence after stopping on the planet for a short time realised quickly the advantages.

I have been here since DAY ONE of your uploads. Your first video on your balcony just talking about Ice and fire is what hooked me on your content. I have also said this to your before. YOU ARE THE REASON I GOT MY SON TO READ. When you started uploading Dune a little over 4 years ago it gave me a chance to connect with my son on a book he might enjoy. NOW 4 years later and my son is a book nerd. I CAN NEVER THANK YOU ENOUGH.

It is really sad that both Herbert and Asimov passed away before they could complete their stories. Both were hinting at aliens, especially Asimov.

I love how grumpy you sound at the end when you said, "If it can be handled properly."

Two thoughts come to my mind: Frank Herbert was fascinated by the concept of ecological systems. Their function and change lie at the heart of the Dune saga. To imagine an invasive species maybe brought by accident to a favourable condition which resulted in that species eventually changing a whole planet's ecosphere for millennia to come is a masterpiece of an ecological thought experiment. The second part is that even on our world we have evidence of species that evolve independently but ave strange synergies with each other. Fungi who have existed long before trees, but now help trees to facilitate their species' health by transporting nutrients through their mycelium networks, or other fungi which deliver psychedelic experiences to humans who have literally evolved millions of years after they did.

Leto mentions that Arrakis was "wet" when the worms were first introduced. According to the Dune Encyclopedia, Arrakis originally had three moons, but 200,000 prior to the story a comet/asteroid destroyed one of them, and the debris crashed into the planet. Prior to this, Arrakis was a lush planet, but the bombardment started an ice age, and the planet later became an arid desert. So, if the worms were introduced when the planet was still "wet," it would have to have been more than 200,000 years in the past. This was long before humans in this universe had access to space travel. So, the worms couldn't have been introduced to the planet by human hands.

I think the mystery of the sand worms origin needs to be left a mystery. Any explanation will not live up to what has been imagined. Ridley Scott explained the origin of the Xenomorph and fans were left disappointed. Some things need to be left ambiguous.

Maybe the worms were once a sentient species who genetically engineered themselves to create their own intoxicant. Thus, the worms explore their melange-inspired dreams for thousands of years under the sands.

It was me. I put them there. This epic story had to happen. So I put the worms on Arrakis.

They first got Mikey to try Melange: "Snort it, Mikey. Snort it!" The rest is psychohistory.

"If the idea can be handled properly." A key phrase, and I do not have the faith in Kevin J. Anderson, and Brian Herbert to be able to handle it properly. I think it is much better to be left a mystery, and more fun to speculate about it. Then to have it out right answered in some way that will be mostly likely unsatisfying to down right insulting.

If the worms came from another planet it's possible, given the timescales involved in converting Arrakis to a desert world, that the star of the original planet has aged enough to effectively destroy the original planet. Perhaps it was a g or k star that has now reached it's red giant stage.

Uroburos time travel? a pre-destination Paradox that was such a huge time loop that only the God Empiror Leto could put in place. His useing a spaceing guild navigater to not warp space but time.

One thing that's interesting about the sand worms is their complete "alien" biology. They produce oxygen. They are animals that produce oxygen! They eat sand. Their bodies are made mostly of silicone. They're one of the few forms of life that completely transforms their environment to suit their own needs. That's something that humans do. A few animals do it, but nothing like the extent of the worms. So maybe they are from an alien species. Maybe something far older and far different from humans and our animal ancestors. I don't know!

What if the spice itself is an alien species? Kinda like fungi work. And by being consumed by humans they add their alien consciousness an capabilities to them. Fungi are symbiotic with trees so the worms would be the trees in this analogy.

Worms are like living versions of the 2001 Space Odyssey monoliths

Dune and Hyperion are my two all time favorite universes. A channel like this with so many videos on each is a dream come true. 🥰

For about 35 years this question has been on my mind. Ever since the first time I read GEoD. Leto II talked of the idea for his "Golden Path" coming from someone in his ancestral past. Who in his ancestral past could have invisioned thousands of years of rule? I suggest that Leto wasn't the first to take on "the skin that is not his own". Perhaps in another galaxy there's a planet with Sand Plankton and Sand Trout. Someone else thousands of years ago allowed sand trout to infest their body, moved to Arrakis and died there. Setting in motion the events leading to the Spice. 🙄

When Quinn posts a video about Dune on RU-vid, I stop what I'm doing and watch.

Quin I love your channel, it's wonderful to see all the people you are bringing together that share love for these novels. It makes me feel more connected to the dune community! Thank you.

Ah... This was actually my first question when I saw the "There are no aliens in Dune" video. But... Might suggest that the Worms ARE human in origin.

My theory is that the Thinking Machines did it. When we find out that the Machines survived the Jihad we have a character that was “alien” watching the main characters.

When you described spice travel as hyperspace travel without computers, it shook loose the following thought: Leto's Golden Path is Psychohistory without computers.

"if the idea can be handled properly" nice subtle burn there ;)

I think it's a really cool idea that the only known ET life in the Dune universe is the very Shai Hulud which makes the universe not only possible, but distinct.

Quinn, your content is definately getting more sophisticated. Keep it up!

Seem to remember a suggestion in an appendix to Dune that The BG were being covertly manipulated by someone else with an even more long term plan.

In the books, the guild found the spice before it was founded. It was found by Tuk Keedair who introduced it to Aurelius Venport (the founder of the guild/ father and husband of Norma Cenva the first navigator).

My thoughts: 1) First, the spice may not have been the first substance used as a drug. You can call this the “Maker’s Water” hypothesis. Humans, by some chance, ingested some chemical from the worm, and gained awareness from it that would lead them to the spice. 2). “Inhalation-first hypothesis” Spice effects might be possible through inhalation, with desert dwellers getting enough of a dose that they began to make a link between psychic abilities, longevity, and the consumption of the spice. 3) “Lunch with dirty hands hypothesis”. Let;s say you have somebody working out in the desert. They work hard, and either they’re too low class to worry much about hygiene, or they’re otherwise not in the habit. They sit down after getting their hands dirty, and eat lunch... and start tripping balls! Naturally, folks are going to want to know why they’re suddenly having visions or feeling the effects.

This just makes me like dune more👍

This is the third video I've watched of yours over the course of two days. Imagine my shock when I see the advert for your graphic novel to realize that I've already bought and received it. Top work, friend.

Absolutely loved this. Thank you. I've been hooked on your channel all week since I discovered it. I've been enraptured by Dune for 6 years now, and I love hearing other individual's thoughts on it. Now I'm off to watch the trailer for Tadhya!

Your videos makes me realize modern science fiction is so far behind the curve. Hopefully some day you start looking into Ring World. Either way, another great video!

I love all your Dune content. I know your Chapterhouse video will be worth the wait :))))))

Thank you so much for doing these videos. I have been a fan of Dune my whole life. It's a real gift thank you

Thank You for adding art credits. You make great choices regarding your content, and I've wanted to find several of the pieces of are you've used before. Well done again!

I always assumed that spice was first discovered before the Butlerian Jihad, probably at the behest of the Bene Gesserits. Once thinking machines are gone, of course they would engineer the creation of the Guild using the magic dust only they knew about.

Semi-Tinfoil theory: the worms and the spice are created by humanity in the very far future (perhaps the worms are even a human descendent!) and our descendants, ensuring their own existence, send the sand trout back in time and seed Arrakis. In a fictional universe with lots of prescience and apparently no intelligent aliens in it, this seems more likely than an alien origin to the worms and fits the themes of human potential In the series. At least to me.

I think the part about Leto II having an ancestor who remembered Arrakis as a green world before the sandtrout were introduced is most interesting. It suggests humans have been in space for far longer than 10,000 or even 30,000 years. You don't grind a planetrary surface to sand in a few centurires.

You hav such a nice voice to listen to. I enjoy these videos before i go to sleep. Thank you! Please keep doing what u do 🙏

Wouldn't just going to Arrakis be enough to be exposed to the spice? The spice seems to be in everything on Arrakis. All you need is a few individuals with the latent innate ability to see the future make contact with the spice. someone that is part of the landing party might be enough. That might have been be enough to set things in motion. Granted the most likely scenario is that the Bene Gesserit played the Aurelian exiles. I always thought that they were the scariest aspect of the Dune universe. They have patience and are masters of subtlety. that is a very dangerous combination.

I think that the worms originated on a planet where they weren't the apex predator and couldn't turn the planet into a desert. When they were introduced to Arrakis, they ended up having no predators and could reach the giant sandworm phase of their life cycle.

Excellent video. There should be mysteries in books, it's very enjoyable to speculate and speculate with others, good job!

Quinn. You're awesome. I really love your productions and explanations of the nerdy and other worldly. Love from Colorado

Again it has been years since I read all of Franks Dune books , but i seem to remember that in chapterhouse it was hinted that the worms were engineered somewhere in the past for the specific purpose paul's son used them for. So when he died all the worms born from him would have a pearl of his memory. Chapterhouse & Heritics was such a trip compared to the others.

Very good thoughts, all. A couple of things crossed my mind during your talk. The first is, space is big. I'm not being facetious or overly simplistic. In the past 10,000 years, we haven't fully explored Earth and we find new things every day. The second being, a good chunk, almost 10% of our current scientific advancements are accidents. A scientist working on advanced warning RADAR melts a chocolate bar in his pocket and, next thing you know, we have a new way to burn popcorn.

You're doing an excellent job, Quinn. Very attentive to details.

I remember that revelation in CoD, but always wondered how their memories could contain that information. The presumption was through their mother however the spice predates Freeman occupation. I started to think, or maybe heard someone else’s speculation, that worms were an old B.G. experiment in genetic engineering for the purpose of producing an age slowing drug. I never got a chance to read the Encyclopedia so I really appreciate your discussion of that source to help me better understand the story. Keep up the great work!

Looking forward to this. Love your content. Stay awesome!

Looks like you read aloud the page heading ("SPACING GUILD, OPERATIONS AND ORGANIZATION") and page number (635) as though it were part of the paragraph.

That was beautifully done. Keep up the wonderful work.

A theory from leftfield; The war on AI machines was lead by an AI machine (as in the Foundation book) that wanted to improve humanity & had learnt of the manufactured drug spice (that was available & intended for a select few) so genetically engineered the worms to make it freely available. This AI then made it available to the Bene Gesserit with the knowledge that they would wisely use it for the benefit of all humility while he either hid in the background to nudge things in the right direction when needed or was destroyed in the war.

I think perhaps sand worms were very different when they were first brought to Arrakis and they evolved. The combination of weather and sand minerals on Arakkis, in conjunction with worm evolution, produced melange.

I have heard that Frank Herbert approved the Dune Encyclopedia and enjoyed reading it, but did not consider it canon.

Love your channel my good man. Keep up the good work!

Love every single Dune vid you release.

The "salmon" and "worms" are genetically modified humans, that's how the B.G. directed it, and it's how they had first exposure to spice.

part of me wonders if the original plan was for the reveal to be that this is all just a gigantic cycle. After all Chapterhouse became the new Dune, the worms were seeded there just as they had been on Arrakis before it. Was Leto's job just to ensure that the lifecycle of humanity (and also maybe the worms) began again?

*brand new viewer here* No more than 30 seconds into listening to this video I didn't hesitate to subscribe to you! Your music is freaking epic and in that short moment, I KNEW I was going to enjoy this video!

Your videos have provided me an enormous sense of well-being

I always thought that Arakis was Earth, and that they were brought there from somewhere, which is why Earth was forgotten

I DON'T LIKE ALIENS PUTTING WORMS IN THE PLANETS THAT TURN THE LANDSCAPE TO HELL

I just binged watched these video. They added so much to the story.

Thanks for getting me really interested in Dune again after 30 years! Great stuff!

Maybe the worms evolved to enhance intelligent species, exactly so those intelligent species ensure their survival and spread throughout the universe. They evolved to have this symbiosis. Because they give abilities, they will always be kept around, and they will as a species persist.

Would the worms have genetic memory, that in itself is a whole series. And the great enemy might also have been deadly for the worms. The symbiosis of humanity and the worms may have been necessary for the ones that brought the worms. The hybrid of human, worm and machine being needed for the future

Imagine having memories of your ancestors, that would be so powerful

The graphics and the artwork are just stunning. They are as compelling as the Dune series itself.

My money is on they are a subsect of humanities final form that was sent back in time to allow a greater path for humanity. Think about it. After the destruction of thinking machines. Creating a better man to fill roles was extremely important. Without the spice this would have likely have gone way more perverse then what we saw in the original story.

I’ve been Audiobooking the Dune series because of these videos. I would like to hear an audio book version where you narrate.

I really like these lore videos you do. Thanks man!

Great video. Thank you. Been a Dune fan for decades now and I read the original 6 books, plus some of the expanded universe, I never realized that the sandworms were not native to Arrakis.

I'd love to hear your thoughts on how everyday folks lived under the god emporers rule. We know that life was stagnant and somewhat boring during Leto's Peace, but I've always been curious about what people actually have to DO in order to comply with the God Emporers religious teachings (or even Mua'dib's for that matter)

Or perhaps, and hear me out...Tzeentch.

Thank you so much for the update!

Your videos are always so amazing.

One of the guys in a science fiction group I was part of viewed the discussion of ecology in the first book as one of the parts of the series he found strange and boring. I was (possibly one of the few) inclined to view it as one of the more dramatic aspects since it added verisimilitude to the setting and the implications on the setting (and thus decisions of the protagonists) was more dramatic than the incidents with the palace workers. The way the digressions on the local ecology are interpreted might reveal something about the way readers view context v. subtext.

Maybe they escaped from David R. Gerrold's universe. They got tired of waiting for him to finish the series.

Man, I really like what you do. I've put a like even before watching this exact video.

Ever since finding this channel, I’ve been binge watching/listening to Quinn and his ideas. I’ve never come across anyone so well versed and knowledgeable about Frank Herbert’s epic space opera, winding what it is to be human, with modern eugenics, psychological drugs, and religion. I first started reading every book connected with the series, from Chapter House Dune, through the main series and anything in between. There are few books that I’m willing to read over and over but the Alexander Text of Will Shakespeare, and all of Dune are the tales I’ll settle down and binge read given the chance. I’m now 61-yo and although I’m told I won’t reach 62, I’ve started reading the series again. I should have the time as it’s now May 2022 and birthday isn’t until end August 2022, so no problem ! Finally, am I the only one that was disappointed by the first attempt at a Dune film, the one with Patric Stewart and Kyle Maclachlan? Those idiotic voice things were just too stupid for words and there were plenty of other examples where the filmmakers drifted away from/totally ignored the storyline (almost as if they’d had someone read it, provide a one page synopsis and the result was……….crap. Finally watched the most recent offering of Dune, which tried a bit too hard to cram Dune and Children of Dune (plus bits of Dune Messiah) into a film that needs the Peter Jackson treatment! That being said I’ll admit that I was pleased that the filmmakers tried to remain faithful to the original story, with just a few important bits missing or out of order in the timeline. Thank you so much Quinn, you’ve given me the nudge I needed to read the series once more. Not sure what my brain will do in its last few seconds of life after I’ve been reading about sand worms and Fremen but it should be good - unfortunately I won’t be able to write a book report, you know how it is. All the best from Burley in Wharfedale, Yorkshire, David

Those guild dudes will eat ANYTHING. It was only a matter of time before they ingested hallucinatory worm scat. J/S. Edit: the Bene Gesserit tts's to bitter jesuit, and that made my day.

My fan-theory: Leto II. was so strong in bending spacetime that he was able to travel back in time and seeded the first worms on Arrakis, thereby closing the circle. This was indeed from another world, not in space, but in time…

Initially I missed your song of ice and fire videos but the dune videos have become just as great if not far better.

I love how you cite all the pics you show. 😊

The worms make the Spice, the spice can give people sight into time, past and future.... what if the worms history is not as linear as time? what if when the worms died off on arrakis and the beni geserate brought them back is their origin off planet? in some kind of cyclical history?> or for instance, the worm god reached back in time to inform those who were yet to know? like some kind of boot strap paradox.

Herbert presents Arrakis at the time of the events of the first three books as a stable ecology that is greatly harmed by the goal set forth by the planetary ecologist, Pardo and later his son, Liet to re-terraform the planet into a green water world as the result of Pardo discovering salt beds indicative of past seas and vast amounts of water sequestered underground. This "altering" of the planets ecology has catastrophic results for an entire economy built around the spice as the flow of spice is interupted. Yet, the worms were introduced to Arrakis in some distant and unknown past. The worms lifecycle forever altered a green water planet that existed prior to whatever intelligence introduced the worms. This introduction of a foreign species had catastrophic effects for the ecology of what once was a water planet. What is Herbert trying to tell us. Surely the ancient introduction of the worms that massively altered the ecology of a water planet shouldn't get a pass while Pardo and Liet's efforts get condemned. Interesting stuff. Could the message be careful what changes you make to an ecology whether intentional or accidental because life will find a way and the current intelligent species may not have a place in that new way?

Awesome video man! The spice must flow!

i really love this channel, thank you!

I think one possibility is that while nothing can surpass melange in strengthening prescience, it is a inherent ability of consciousness, and lesser presciences both inborn and enhanced by other, less potent pharmaceuticals could have progressively and iteratively led humanity to the futures where melange was discovered.

I haven't read any of the Brian Herbert Dune stuff, having only heard bad things about his handling of major events in the universe. So, pardon if I'm skeptical of it being handled well if he decides to touch on it. That said, it is an interesting mystery. I'm not 100% sure, but I know a lot of what wildlife is mentioned in Dune on Arrakis is said to be transplanted creatures from similar biomes.

Love these videos, Quinn.

Leto, in his unique ability to view time objectively and as a physical axial location could've seeded them. Either before his "death" (apotheosis) or after. I would venture to say after, as such concepts are infathomable to any conciousness still tied to an entropic (material) existence. This could explain so much that humanity was able to stumble upon such as the Holzman effect, the almost prescient tmning of the Butlerian Jihad and it's philosophy, the worms, the discovery of the process creating synthetic melange.. etc.. Im a longtime fan and have enjoyed watching you evolve fromca guy with a good narration voice to a true creator of content. I look forward to your continued success!