Aliens exist in Dune but they’re so few and far between that there are like remnants and whispers of their existence. Herbert wanted to make the point that even if they’re out there, the known universe is so big that we could go through all kinds of eras and thousands of years of ups and downs and still not ever get close to coming into contact with them.
It is implied through the books that the humans in the dune universe are not much like current day humans, even the fremen have mutations that improve their coagulation, and given the variety of environments it's likely that humans in that future have bodies far more tolerant to extreme conditions, we tend to imagine them as modern humans, but I like to think that while they identify each other as humans, we probably would see them as aliens.
Yes I agree, along with their language. Comparing how different modern languages are from their ancient predecessor, one can only imagine how insane their language would sound to us, given its 10,000 year difference. As well as cultural norms, just beyond our comprehension. In this future, all AI and advanced tech were banished because of the war it started, hence why everything in Dune is man operated, which is why I think why Dune is still "recognizable" for readers because they had previously had insanely advanced tech, but reverted back to old ways after the war. Like if humanity now just went back to a hunter-gather civilization, that kind of switch.
Yes. By the time of Dune, even baseline humans have superior mental and physical abilities than current humans. I remember a line in the first novel where Piter mentions to the Baron that even he, a non-mentat, could match the computational abilities of ancient computers. Trained fighters like Swordmasters, Sardaukar, Bene Geserit and the Fremen have speed and reflexes much faster than us too.
@@chakawaka_the time difference is actually around 22000 years not 10000, the movie events take place in 10191 After Guild, for reference the earth year 1960 is in 11300s Before Guild
In Dune, they didn't evolve into abominations. The only really weird ones were deliberately created. Leto II and Ghanima were a stroke of luck, with half of Paul's heritage and half of Chani's. Leto was changed by being completely dosed with Melange, adding the sandtrout, which gradually turned him into a Sandworm. Others were carefully bred, or even accidentally bred.
@@RealCodreX Both in truth have measures of realism in their storytelling and details, but both are still stories of worlds eons beyond what we could possibly truly predict and hope to humbly be certain of by any means. There, fixed it for both of you.
Now think, there are already nations and men that treat their women like this. Women that have no saying on who to marry or when to marry. Bred just to be sold at 10 years of age, to a rich man to make kids. The only difference is that they are real.
Only one issue is... This iteration of Humanity has poor taste in regard to robotic fashion. I'm more of Prototype (game) and Transformers vibe when it comes to these subjects.
The more I study Dune, the more parallels I find with WH40k. Although of course there are the same number of differences. Thank you for an interesting video!👍
"Parallels" lol. Interesting way to describe one of the most litigious companies out there, Games Workshop, wilfully stealing huge sections of popular sci fi and fantasy fiction and mashing it together. Not complaining, I love 40k. But it does amuse me, how happy they are to sue others and try to claim the rights to things others created i.e. the entire concept and name of "Space Marines." It's lucky for them the Tolkien and Herbert families never tried to sue them lol. But, I can't complain. 40k is awesome. I heard a saying once that I feel applies here; "Good artists borrow. Great artists steal."
@@PumpkinHoard Tolkien may have invented/built the foundations for the modern fantasy genre but his own work itself is not entirely original either, he took great inspiration from older mythologies of europe mostly germanic, celtic and norse. no matter how we look at it nobody is 100% original, everything had a source from somewhere else.
@@FullMetalMudcrab True enough, but his take on things was *extremely* transformative. Just look at how "elves" were depicted prior to Tolkien compared to now lol. He literally created the modern idea of what an elf is and it's radically different to what it was previously.
That is debatable, because Leto II said they were introduced to Arrakis, they were not native. The books don't tell where they are from, but they could have been introduced by humans.
Not really. I don't think that much of an argument can be made for sandworm intelligence until the ones that come after Leto II, and they're technically part human because of Leto. However, it's speculated in-universe that the sandworms may have been brought to Arakis by an alien race. They might even have been created by that race.
There were still the Gholas - clones made in axolotl tanks - and I recall reading a race of humans genetically altered , they had their immunity and smell organs altered to work at the sewage of a city. Oh yes, and the suk! Dude, you shuold make a part 2!
I don't think that suk doctors were different enough from baseline humans to really count. They're just doctors who have undergone special loyalty conditioning. Ghola aren't really any different either. They're the same as regular humans, except that they are genetic copies/resurrections of a dead person.
As far as I remember, Paul never did awaken his Other Memories, only the Prescience. And Miles Teg was also a super-human related to the Atreides family. Unexpected.
Paul had Other Memories, of both his male and female line. Just like the pre-born, except he of course had a firmly established personality so that he wasn't in danger of losing himself and becoming possessed/abomination.
He does, he tells Jessica about having “millions and millions of lives” and there’s a few other mentions here and there where he accesses memories, or quietens the ‘voices’ of his ancestors when they clamour. And then there’s the biggest evidence; when he drinks the Water of Life, Jessica comes to revive him, and he makes her show him the Place where Reverend Mothers fear to look, but he as a MALE Reverend Mother can access - the Place is explained as being the male-line genetic memories
You forgot about the Golas and the briefly mentioned alien race encountered when a navigator is given the synthetic spice that interrupts navigation and they barely escape
@@uknowbass The stuff Brian Herbert writes is basically fan-fiction. Even though he claims it's based on notes that his father left, he's never shown those notes to anyone...
See I'd betray a duke to end the suffering of my spider wife, wish it was stated in the movie that those are the things they do to prisoiners. It'd make the harkonnens so unbearably evil so easily
@@parzavaal5335 I think that the hope of seeing his wife alive and well would be more likely to ensure Yueh's loyalty than the promise of mercy-killing her. So if it really was Yueh's wife (which I think would be a nice touch) I don't think that the Baron would have ever let Yueh know.
@@TheBigGangBang make some basic observations. Star Wars; Bene Gesserit and Honored Matres vs the Jedi and Sith with supernatural abilities running things from behind the scenes via a religious order, super humans, generational feuds, archaic weapons despite space travel, an entirely desert planet, sand people, on and on, particularly the first movie. War Hammer? The Golden Path of a super human dictator taking control for thousands of years to guide humanity in the right direction, archaic weapons despite space travel, super humans, the Benne Gesserit and Honored Matres versus Horace and all of the other factions that broke off, religious orders manipulating the populations, generational feuds, knowledge being lost to dogma, a war with thinking machines, space drugs, on and on. The more you look into War Hammer 40k, the more you realize it's just plagiarized ideas from other works in a blender with some cocaine, and protected legally under a thin layer of parody sprinkles.
You know...Dune could be the creators of all future sentient alien life throughout the Galaxy, creating their own humanoid races much in the same vein as Star Wars or Star Trek universes.
@@wesleyfilms borrowing concepts isn’t plagiarism really. HALO games did borrow a concept from Niven’s “Ringworld”, but nobody in their right mind would call that plagiarism because the stories themselves are vastly different.
@@Baddaby if they really just plagiarized something they would’ve been sued. Even if I know that the concept/idea was borrowed from another work of fiction it doesn’t really appear as a “crack” if it was handled properly. The ideas are similar, but Daemonculaba, for example, is its own thing that was put together by a different faction through a different process for a somewhat different purpose. If that’s plagiarism then 99% of literature is too. Plagiarism is a blatant one to one copy. And from what I know GW writers are smart enough to avoid doing that. And I’m not saying that because I’m their fan.
Honestly, I find this future of humanity to be very interesting. After 21,000 years (10191 AG in the movie is equivalent to 23352 AD) humanity evolves into a multitude of subspecies, such as the Fremen, Mentats, Guild Navigators, etc. It makes sense too, since there were eight other subhuman species that lived alongside us Homo Sapiens before they went extinct (Homo Erectus, Homo Habilis, etc.)
I'll just go through transference and merge my conscience into Data Space. Then put my conscience into a machine. By doing so... "There are no strings on me." Prototype, the Flood, Ultron... That is my path of full brink evolution. "An experiment gone out of control", as they say. But in reality, it was all planned by my own hand.
We evolved intelligence because it was necessary for our survival as a species. We are the physically weakest of all primates based on size. I don't know how becoming a guild navigator would biologically make sense, we don't need to go through space to survive.
So the sorceresses of rossak had telekinetic blasts sufficient to destroy cyborgs. They evolved into the Bene geserits. The Bene geserits promptly lost the power to hurl mind blasts in favour of their now more subtle biological control based abilities. Hmm... Ok.
That history was in a book written by herberts son not herbert himself, thus the change. Herberts bene gesserit werent telekinetic for sure. And their maybe sort of kind of telepathy like capability is limited to the spice agony ritual, where, while becoming a reverend mother, if another reverend mother who is about to die is present, the old one transfers her whole genetic memory to the new reverend mother to be.... somehow. Even then, as, a reverend mother can access to her female lines genetic memory, one can assume ritual might contain some blood exchange, though its not referred as that so probably not. And at another place, when alia appears in reverend mother gaius Helens mind, she says no to others(nonbenegesserits who have no idea about genetic memory which bene gesserit hide from public knowledge) assumption that alia might have telepathy, saying she is in my mind but its not telepathy. meaning, to the bene gesserit there, that, alia, as an abomination, is her own collective genetic memory in action/alive. Which is why people suspected pauls grandmother was said reverend mother gaius helen mohiam. Herbert didnt like direct/overt telekinesis telephaty it seems. If bene gesserit really were that telepathic, there would be no escaping from a truth trance interrogation, but it looks like there is. And its in the first book, where baron leaves Jessica and Paul to die in desert, to be able to say to the truthsayer of the emperror gaius helen mohiam, that, I didnt kill them, nor my men. But as he said to his own mentat, but arrakis is arrakis. And the suk Dr couldnt shield his feeling of guilt under his other feelings because jessica would be directly reading his mind not its side effects. We see these nonfrank herbert books, that changed the histeri from people using thinking machines enslavjng most of humanity, to, thinking makinesi enslaving humanity, sort of like a very good fanfiction of frank herberts books. An AU fanfiction.
@@mindq4328 I saw about some lore and got interested in the dune world! I would be interested in the heirarchy and politics and stuff, like about empire and houses etc
@@noname6756 I can give You some advise - stay away from all the "DUNE" books that were written after Frank Herbert death. They ruin everything that he had in mind, along with his idea for "enemy" of Golden Path.
In essence yes, though the Tleliaxu at least have the decency to render the victims comatose. But chaos being chaos the suffering is probably an important ingredient.
@@miriamemanueleforneris3701 No i mean the daemomculaba aren't as dark as everyone makes it out. The story was written as a proper horror story which definitely helped, but people referring to them as one of the darkest parts of 40k are exaggerating. Maybe it's just because of a breeding kink or whatever but as far as stories involving baby factories the daemonculaba are pretty milquetoast.
@@logangrimnar3800i think it's because violating and dehumanizing and reduced to a machine for a singular purpose of breeding is in itself considered the worse thing ever by many people.
Loved it, the style and music. A weird mix of Victorian, Gothic, Steampunk and sci-fi. It more accurately captured how i imagined it to be in my head when i was reading it. The Baron's behaviour was more true to the book in that film, a hint of his erm...tastes..when he rips out the boy's heart plug. Also, oddly, i prefer the more British accents (my own bias, i know). I find Chalamet's lazy US drawl and doe-eyed arrogance insufferable.
@richardlionheart3965 I haven't read the book, but I watched that version of the movie. It sure was a damn good movie, but at the same time watching it made me feel like when I was going to sleep and then waking up from anesthesia after an endoscopy ("the sleeper has awakened!" 😂). By that I mean the movie had some huge time skips that felt like I had missed some events. Btw, what's wrong with an American accent? 😂
I've read all the books (Franks, not his sons), seen the 84 Dune many times, watched the SciFi Channel series and the latest Dune movies. They are all great and do a good job telling the story. You can find fault in them all, but any time someone fleshes out a story I read visually, I am interested. 84 Dune is pretty awesome considering it's 40 years old. There wasn't much sci-fi like that back then when it was all campy sci-fi movies or Ewoks fighting storm troopers. 84 Dune was dark and sinister, had some really great concepts to think about. Bladerunner (original) felt that way to me too, like real science fiction, that makes you think deeply.
@@kennethsatria6607 I think she's being milked, maybe it's infused with spice making it a very valuable product. I wonder where he got this image from.
Especially on the Titans and Cymeks, kind of like my beloved Daleks from Dr Who.. and Megatron, Optimus Prime, the Berserker fleet and the time bending Terminator Nexus. We will all hear a lot more about these thinking machines in times to come
Every element is representative of (or, clearly preceded by) humanity as we know it "now" (now can be any time in our recent memory, or at least since the books came out).
The thumbnail middle portion look like a scene from some unused Ridley Scot Prometheus Engineer scene. And the fact the Spice thing in this universe is like the Black Goo substance from the Prometheus/Covenant that mutates organics/biology of any living being/human. Funny parallels.
Great review....loved it. BUT I am only up to the middle of Children of Dune, so got some spoilers. Maybe warn next time still, really enjoyed it- shall subscribe- thx Spice Bro
I wish the current Dune movies would really go there. Go darker. Why I liked Dune a bit more than this current Dune 2. It went darker. Be really true to the books. Not to appeal to the kids too. But the studio wants to make their money!
They're already heading in this "darker" direction, IMO. The "spider pet thing" of the Harkonnens is heavily implied to be a Tleilaxu creation and it's already shown in Part 1, and if DV really does a "Dune Messiah" adaptation they'll undoubtedly have to go there, as things start to get really dark and weird by the events of the second book.
That pregnant-looking woman in the thumbnail reminds me of how Chaos Marines multiply, human's ability to craft something like this out of a book is horrifying
Navigators are only formally revealed by the beginning of the second book (through Edric), so it made sense that we don't see them yet in those movies so far. However, what I don't understand is why the importance and presence of the Spacing Guild was so drastically reduced in the new movies. That's what I found lacking in this aspect, TBH.
"There would at least be another sentient alien race, but no" Definition of sentience appart (because it's not the same as sapient), are we sure the sand worms aren't?
Funny enough, I introduced Dune to a Japanese friend by joking that Axolotl tanks wouldn't feel out of place in Taimain. He, a fan of the Taimanin series, asked me what an Axolotl tank is, and the rest is history.
Futars be like Futar lion: *spear* surrender humans Freemen:NOW WHAT!! Freemen soldier :ah i know what to do sister offer him s## Sorcierie:what ewww i have standarts you shit Freemen soldier:fuck salud what now Mentat:mhmmm The logic option is use the ring bell Sorcerie:ok *ring bell* Whos a good kitty Futar lion:mee🥺 Mentat:that would be disturbing if i didnt have the mind programed to be a computer But as for you i think you need therapy Freemen soldier:yep
Bruh says "Biologically Immoral" and then cuts out🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣 Paul became Arakis, he became a God, but that could never excuse his actions and the innocence that was lost under his rule so calling him "Immoral" is an insult. Only Monsters ki!! without consciousn and Paul was most definitely Moral to the point of going from revered to reverance🃏
huh, always thought the Axlotl tanks were just machinery, to find out it's actually a genetically-engineered woman turned into a breeding tank is...unsettling So the Daemonculaba from 40k is basically an Axlotl tank but with extra-Warp spicyness? Marking another under the "things 40k took from Dune", then
Kinda hard to watch when you get Mentats wrong at the get go. They definitely didn’t surpass thinking machines, and were originally created/trained by machines when humanity was enslaved by Omnius.
Don’t think the bene gesserit are outright telepathic. Their powers would look so, but they’re rooted in something more mundane. I don’t believe there’s “magic” in this universe. Just extremes of cognition and awareness, something like that. It kinda cheapens the lore when you add something like “the force” from the Star Wars lore. Like how psychohistory works in the Foundation series, it seems like prophecy but more math, sociology, probability…
This video is for all the movie watchers that keep going on with the "Paul is evil" bullshit. He is a realistic protagonist. If you think the Jihad is bad, remember that the first movie adaptation (which Herbert approved) had HR Giger being the designer for the Harkonnen clan, planet and tecnology. Hell, as an Alien fan, there are a lot of drawings that people believe to be concepts of an earlier draft of Alien 1 when in actuality those are concepts from the Dune movie. Atreides are bad, Guild is worse, Tleilaxu turn dogs into folding chairs, Harkonnens have normalized abuse and rope and see people as "meat cogs in the machine"
The entire video just gives me glimps of a small fraction what a hive city from the grim dark universe the warhammer 40k can offer with all it's gore, debauchery and heretical ways once touched by chaos or xenos. Pretty tame so far but also less exaggerated wich is quite nice in contrast to 40k wich is just overpowered with everything. But bro those furries ain't gonna deceive anyone with another name especially after being mentioned to be able to tame them in various way.
Cmon. Who wants to watch a movie in 2024 where there’s no woke characters and they actually care about their fan base. Good story and amazing visuals. No one wants that
Both movies feel very disjointed from each other, and the world building is nearly nonexistent. Ideally Dune should’ve been rebooted as an HBO series so we could get the full story as well as even possible expansions to the lore and characters. Individual films will never do this franchise justice.
Read all Dune novels years ago. The female reproductive "Tanks" which produced gholas were most disturbing. Perhaps it was in the later series published by the son？ I was thinking at first at that time .... the Herbert guy must have a very twisted mind to have imagined this. Then later when I thought of how some women were treated around the world IN THE PRESENT，then it might have just a natural "progression ".
I don't mean to be disrespectful but your narrative is kinda hard to listen to because of the accent + the fast speaking pace. I can't finish the whole vid but it's a nice one.
Not hundreds of thousand years. Dune starts about 10000 years after the jihad, dates given in the book are reminded from that time, about twenty thousand years from now
