How does Baseplate Shimming Work? 

Thanks! Please let us know how your testing works out!

Nice, that is one way to do pretty much the same thing! You'll likely want to re-shim your tail as well and now your mast and more importantly fuselage are flying at a slightly different angle. Depending on what speed your are trying to optimize for this could be a good or bad thing. Awesome that you are building your own gear man!

@@omenfoils Thanks, for me the biggest change for shimming (the mast) is not how it rides at all but my posture riding the foil. I still maintain my COG over the foil but the Axis gear uses a built in climb angle on the front wing which I don't agree with but I copied that angle for potential stabiliser compatibility part way along my own journey of wing design. To my mind, the wing already has an element of lift from foil top convex surface so if I want to climb MORE (Like starting or pumping or almost stalling) then I'll do it with angling the board with my feet. At cruising speed, I want the board flat, I want the front foil flat. At takeoff, I don't want the extra drag from mis-alignment of the board under surface and the foil angle. Of course Axis may have done it themselves in the beginning to compensate for boards with a lot of tail rocker, I'm sure they felt it was positive for them. I think they have reduced the climb angle on their newer foils since they started with it but it takes time, change the front foil angle and then you need to compensate with the rear stabiliser angle. Mast plate shims and doodad shim-angles leave that setting alone though, they just change the ride angle of the board. But you guys seem fairly tuned in, I forgot to mention on my first comment that the original shim was for the mast.

Great points Bekanav, no doubt you are correct that operating past the designed efficiency range of your front wing also increases the drag due to the angle of the fuselage. So of course the best thing to do is to rig a smaller wing, however, this is not always an option, and some riders may need the larger wing to get on foil, so a baseplate shim is the best option in this case. On our Operator foils not only is the wing designed to have a broader efficiency range but also the fuselage is made smaller to reduce the drag when it is operating at lower or higher speeds than ideal. Together, this significantly increases the range of conditions that the foil can excel in.

@@omenfoils That makes sense. In some foils shimming front wing isn't even possible so then you have to try something else like shimming board/fuselage angle from the baseplate, if some changes are needed. I've always just thought foil should travel pretty much level when riding normal speed and it was a surprise to hear that some foils could have negative AoA at high speed. Of course amount of this can't be big, perhaps a degree or two and therefore can be tolerable even though it is a bit weird or less than ideal. I've made few complete foils and many wings during the years and then I had to think through the physics and variables. I have long history in kite design so things that fly were familiar to me, and foils just fly in water. Less than 10 years ago foils used to be much smaller but also much faster than now usual big foils. Winging wasn't around at all, it was all kite foiling. It was much harder to learn then because you needed more speed to get up and then crashes were harder. I remember how beat up I felt in first summer learning foiling😅 My latest project is monowing, just to see if it is usable or more fun. Auto stable airfoils are widely used in foil kites but there is of course many parameters to think and hopefully eyeball correctly enough. Nice shaping task anyway Last summer I tested a thick 1500cm2 foil and it was much too powerful for me, my speed was ridiculously slow and I had to keep my weight very much on front foot. I was kite foiling, for wing foiling it might have been a usable setup. What is best or most suitable for you is a personal matter and depends on your style of riding etc. Foiling is great sport but it also has that technical side in it. Some misunderstandings of foils, how they work and for tuning are quite usual. Good to see a channel like yours which clearly explains these things 👍

@@bekanav Thanks for the support and great engagement, you're absolutely correct the negative angle at high speed is generally very small, however it does cause a big drag penalty since the speed of the water is high over the wing and fuselage. Ultimately this non-linearly increasing drag is what places a practical speed limit for a foil at a specific rider weight. Similar principle applies to low speed which is why a larger foil will actaully be more efficient in small waves than a small foil since the angle of attack of a small foil operating just above it's stall speed is quite high it makes the whole system very inefficient.

Appreciate the kind words, drop us an email and we'll send you a file to 3D print a reversible baseplate shim

Awesome, let us know how it works for you!

Thanks @IAMFOXON!

Thanks Jonas!

Thanks!

A great point, and certainly works well in high wind. In very light wind though by applying more front foot pressure to reduce the angle of attack of the board you increase the required speed (and therefore energy) required to take off on foil. The baseplate shim allows us to take advantage of the physics of the foil to get better light wind performance out of our equipment.

Having read your description, I realize your target is for wing foil or surf foil people. I am a kite foiler. I water start and normally get up on foil without the board touching the water. Sorry about not having read your description.@@omenfoils

@@chungchichiu9779 No worries, that makes sense! Kites have so much more power that board efficiency is much less of a concern other than very light wind conditions. Board shim could still be useful for tuning board angle. I see lots of kitefoilers at our local lake in permanent "wheelie mode"!

appreciated, glad folks are getting value out of the content

Right on, nothing magic about the shim material. We made ours to be more convenient and easy by design but no performance advantage over just a plastic scraper cut to shape provided you get the thickness/angle more or less correct. Good luck on your winging journey, drop a line with your progress!

awesome, you're going to love it at high speed - more secure feeling in carves and better touch down performance!

That's happening to me too my board is angled down at medium and high speeds so my back leg is slightly bent will shim it to level out the board

That all sounds logical @cefirmeza, what angle is your deck relative to the bottom of your board?

great point Josh. Depending on the conditions I'm sure there is an ideal angle as a compromise between take off power and high speed riding comfort.

Nice! Do you notice your board starts pointing down slightly at high speed?

Hi @kountchev1, we are making our own reversible 1 degree baseplate shim at Omen that will be out in a couple weeks. Goal is to make it easy to rapidly identify which way to face it when setting up. That being said - really anything works provided its from stiff plastic, so if you have access to a 3D printer no reason not to DIY!

Hi Thomas, you are correct that the baseplate/board shim controls the angle of the board when the foil is flying but could be thought of as to control the angle of the foil when paddling the board on the surface. In your case it sounds like your foil has either too large of a tail wing or too much angle of attack (too much nose down angle) on the tail. This would make it feel draggier at low speed and have an overwhelming amount of front foot pressure at high speed. It could also lead to feeling like the foil is trying to rise too aggressively when catching a more powerful wave, however, I think this is more due to your foil being a bit too far foward in the tracks. Check out the video we made on tail tuning to get your tail dialed in. Similarly, watch our track position video and place your foil a bit further back than the balanced position to make it a bit easier on yourself when catching waves. The source of power matters, but in general wouldn't affect the way I tune since I'm optimizing for wave/bump riding either way.

Many thanks for your answer that add a lot to my comprehension … which stays quite low has this topic is very complicated ! About the position of the mast … it is already at its most back position. nothing to do here. I’ve watch carefully your video on the tail wing and will try to play this side … hopefully it will work ! Your videos are very nice and very well explained ! Very good job.

@@ThomasGic happy to help Thomas! Please let me know how it works, and if it's not possible to tune properly due to gear limitation get in touch with me for an upgrade :) greg@omenfoils.com

Thanks for your comment Gary, completely agree the baseplate shim adjusts the angle of the board relative to the foil, and assuming you mean it only affects lift when the board is on the water - I also agree! I'm sure there is a simpler way to explain it all, but we worked hard to make it very clear how and why it affects feel and performance of the whole system. In my experience this is key to riders being able to incorporate a tool into their everyday routine. Sorry to hear the content wasn't helpful for you, we're working on more videos and will strive to continually improve.

​​​@@omenfoils I'm not sure how it was for others, but for me it really helped me understand the reasons of why you would shim for different conditions and the benefits associated. Lots of ppl talk about tail shimming but I have not found too many ppl discussing baseplate shimming. It's good to understand as it's another tool in ones arsenal and is alot cheaper than another front wing to get more range out of your equipment too.

Thanks@@danno9846 !

I’m not sure that I can agree with you Gary. One or two degrees of rake are noticeably changing your riding especially in higher speeds and cornering.