How DRIFTING keeps getting MORE EXPENSIVE! Rad Dan and I try to SOLVE IT! 

I feel that two ways of going forward on the viewer amount is 1. to fix the judging, actually the whole system needs an overhaul, people often say to me they choose to watch another series because the judging bothers them and 2. make sure that the show flows better, more driving less downtime. Driftmasters just seems to have a better strategy to kill the downtime

Chelsea beating the fact that these cars are trying to kill you is is actually insane

I think one of the main issues is with the judging. If the judges rewards you for building a high grip car that is hard to control but extremely fast, that is what people are going to build. If the judging instead rewarded control and smoothness, I think the cars would start adapting to that rather quickly. Probably the most efficient way to force that change would be to change the rules and the judging simultaneously or you would still end up with cars that tries to kill you, just slightly slower.

I like the idea of a 245 or 255 tire cap to limit the craziness of cars. Even if it was a different series. Klutch kickers in my opinion should be that so anyone can show up and have a chance at the money.

This is such an important topic, not just for FD but for grassroots events too! Also I personally think that Drifting and Rallycross Racing is way more entertaining to watch than Nascar however when it comes to getting more exposure, all it would take is airing either FD Longbeach/FD Irwindale on a major sports network OR even getting Google/RU-vid TV sponsor it and they can negogiate the terms and conditions of getting said event on a major network for thr final day of competition. Just ideas 🤷🏽‍♂️

Brought my family and friends to their first FD event at SLC in 2022. None had ever seen drifting before. They were blown away and now fans. If there were weight, tire, power limitations I still feel like they would be hooked. The drivers will always find a way to take what they are given to the edge (and put a good show on). Personally, like watching grass roots like Klutch Kicker even more, unexpected podiums where winner is not decided by wallet.

VERY interesting insightful conversation, thanks for uploading Chelsea. I'm looking forward to this season 🔥

Although he hasn't ran FD I feel like Taylor Ray would have some awesome input on this topic

I agree with the tire size limitation. Horsepower becomes irrelevant after a certain point with a set amount of grip. The biggest cost in any car is horsepower, but there's also a lot of other costs that come with more horsepower. I think most people who run pro-am or lower level competitions have somewhere around 500hp, and if everyone's running 5-600 hp, then a lot more people will be able to compete, even with less than 500. It's still expensive, but it is exponentially more expensive when building for higher and higher horsepower. And there's so many good drivers out there who simply can't compete (even if they want to) because it's too expensive to build a competitive car, and there's also bad drivers who can compete because they have more money than skills. Ultimately, if there's more competition, then better drivers will be in competition, and the unskilled drivers will be knocked out much sooner.

Chelsea, this is a legit conversation that I would love to see again. Next time please facilitate it with more articulate drivers. This is one of the few places people like Ryan Sage can see fans comment on the topic.

i'm glad you talked about drifting still being a owner driver motorsport, it hasn't hit that nascar level yet

Hey Chelsea Hit up Jeff jones and fly down to watch one of the HotPit rounds this year we are running a 265 300tw rule which is a SUPER accessible tire to the public. We also have pro1 drivers up against prospec drivers up against random proam guys as well. There are actually VERY close battles between 170hp bmw vs a 800hp pro car. Also bring your foxbody and drive with us!

I so hope you have this conversation with other FD drivers. Its cool to hear everyones thoughts about this. Go talk to LZ, Im sure he has great ideas as he did it himself for two season in Pro level.

- for Pro drifting limit HP and tire size and compound. every other motorsport does this for safety and keeping it competitive - for am and semi pro we need a SCCA like class and rules for FD. - entry level class i.e stock, stock w suspension, stock + suspension + angle kit, etc, etc. IMHO this will make it easier for people to get into competitive drifting and not feel the need to fully build a race car to be competitive. make it less about money/sponsor and make it more about different styles of drifting - encourage different styles of drifting taking race lines v. drifting in zones v team styles. every FD event is the same... it's who can does the best burn out around the suggested "drift zone" around the track. it's great for pictures and promo video's but as a spectator it gets pretty boring.

FD needs to figure out how to get more exposure or something. I didn't realize it was even still running until I started actively getting back into the car scene. you need to be able to attract casual fans if you want more money in the series. no idea how and I'm sure they already talk about it often, but the hardcore drift fans is only so large of a group.

I started drifting (spinning out in parking lots at night) in 2008 and started competing grassroots level in 2013. I did pretty well that year and wanted to step-up and run pro-am. In the middle of building my car for that, the level of competition (car builds) rose dramatically and the car I was building would no longer be competitive (also had some major supporters leave town). Gave up on any dream of some day running pro-level competition by like 2016. The costs were astronomical and I saw no way I could make it work, especially after watching so many local drivers I looked up to and respected try to make it and end up giving up because they would spend themselves broke to make it to half the rounds.

Chelsea with proper insight. I love the message about keeping your car simple and enjoy driving it!!! The less it costs the more you enjoy and drive!

Television still matters!! So many people watch football and they have all kinds of ads from household cleaning supplies to cars,trucks,vacation trips,soda companies etc etc etc If FD could get on cable it would be a massive game changer.

Love these videos. just the sit down and shop talk. I go through two sets of 245/40/18s a year for yearly trips on mountain road twisties. not near what this is but I feel it. still want to see FD to the Freedom Factory. loved Klutch Kickers there.

You two are important people in the world of drift ! This is a terrific video so the rest of us can get a small glimpse of how it is in the drift world. Thank you!!!!

Great conversation...maybe look to something like the intent of the IROC races where standardization really highlighted the driver talent for the course...just adapt to drifting

I'm proud of you for having this conversation, you NEED to keep it going. Remember its about the fans so the better it can be run and the more people can have access to run then the better the "shows" will be and more people will come.

Two of the most talented drivers to take up a wheel kicking it. Sick vid, thanks for keeping it real!

Fd just needs a stock class and an outlaw class. Would be cool to see the same drivers run different cars and new drivers come up in the stock class.

Drifting is getting more expensive and more tracks are getting shut down or bought out by big companies. We need more tracks especially down south east coast!

Love videos like this because I speak on very similar stuff all the time and I often times go back to watching xdc when I was a teen in Texas and how crazy things have gotten since then. The og Japanese drivers we mostly got influenced by had way less power, smoke and speed is pretty much was a cool presentation of driving. I wish there was more comps based around that . I think the other part about going down in tire size would make everything more scalable from a drivers perspective. Developing and selling parts and setups to The general consumer could almost become like a spec setup where they have very similar setups on their street/ hobby setups as the pros. So it may make more sense for sponsors to invest in it. And the tire used would be easily usable for a general passenger car

It’s literally why I won’t get into actual drifting and why I’ll stick to my sim drifting cause the prices are insane now

Some racing series are doing standardized space frame chassis with the car's body panels bolted over the top, the cost of the chassis may be slightly more, but the cost of parts will be the same or less, then it's the team setup, V8 supercars are doing it with the GEN3, I think they've done it the best, where 80% of the surface of the represented car is 1 to 1 match, just some aerodynamic treatments are tweaked for parity, the engines are different to suit what the car comes with, but makes the same power and torque (600hp actually lol), gearbox is spec ect

I really enjoy these types of videos its great hearing the stories behind the early days of FD when I was watching it on TV you are just a wealth of knowledge and everyone looks up to you and values your opinions

Alot of great solutions here. Ive been a mechanic for about 7 years but im just now getting into it car stuff for the past couple years. I took my ls1 E36 to a local drift event last year and realized its not as easy as yall make it look 😂. It was still one of the greatest times of my life. I cant imagine how much fun it is for you guys that get to do it all the time. I wish I could. The weight/tire size makes sense.

I think moving towards a smaller tire could be the key. I just think there would be some folks who get up in arms about it. Really appreciate these types of videos. Super interesting and really good for the industry as a whole to hear from you guys in a less hectic setting.

Really enjoyed listening to this banter about the stuff we don't get to see or hear about as much in FD. Will be cool to see how the sport evolves in the coming years ]

If only sponsors saw more talent where there’s limited exposure. Everyone loves an underdog story

Change the scoring system to include proximity sensors on the cars/walls/clipping points as 80% of the score and human judging to 20% of the score. Viewership would go up for sure. Offer the rear windshield, or anywhere on the vehicle, to smaller company sponsors and have the area on the car for those companies QR codes for fans to scan. The tire size seems like the way to go. Great content, as always.

A spec class would be cool. Just like SCORE in their off-road program. The 6100 class is awesome. Keeping the unlimited class as well for innovation and excitement. Just 1 class is hard for large growth and the “average joe” to get in. Would be pretty cool to have a class breakdown instead of only unlimited. Horsepower cap (sealed motor) spec chassis etc

I'd love to see a power cap. Part of the draw of motorsports is "hey I could own that." Or "I could do that." Bringing in a cap could help recreate that illusion that made 70-80's stock car racing huge. After that there needs to be more standards and a clear judging rules. You can't piss off fans with weird judging and expect ppl to want to watch.

Well, from my perspective on the clearest way to make it cheaper.... reduce the grip. Less grip, less mechanical wear and tear. The grip levels have naturally jacked the power range up, as well as beefier components to handle that much power. -As far as reducing expenditures for travel, team, all that, only getting tracks and schedule that is more concise. -A very large amount of time and money can be saved in full potato heading organization or parts/resources. That means documenting everything expected lifetimes, keeping high wear stuff on stock... etc (I got awarded in military for that) Past that, I personally don't have nearly enough on ground experience in your field to say.

Great conversation guys! could watch you guys talk about drifting and all your stories for 10+ hours easily, an hour wasn't enough haha

Don’t forget we were already on tv before and it didn’t bring the returns to be worth it. Drivers and sponsors competitiveness pushed everything to where it is today. Stuke ran the prospec tire in pro this year and definitely out performed a good chunk of the field using good strategy on entry and a light car. The second somebody gets gapped the check book and the tools come out trying to build the next advantage over everybody. So were gonna need 40+ dudes to agree with the idea of not trying to out build each other.

I think one of the most IMPORTANT things to change the game that happened in this video... was this conversation happening openly on this platform in general. I am sure it happens behind the scenes, but the more conversations between drivers/teams in small group settings that can be shared could really push for change in a positive direction. I think setting smaller tire size and weight requirement could really be a great starting point. I really feel like drifting is on the cusp of spilling over into a much larger body of water, like said also, it's just time and making sure the right moves are made to keep it sustainable in order to last that time it takes.

Love this. Would definitely watch a series of you sitting down with drivers and discussing topics like this

This was a good one. Love these discussions about the sport!

stock cars in old nascar compared to new age "stock" cars of nascar and why stock car racing had meaning/growth imo, i like the idea of stepping back the entry reqs to be competitive

Thank you for bringing this up, I've been thinking the same thing for many years now.

No caps, all the diff builds and strategies make it fun to watch as a fan. With caps everyone will just run the same car that works best under the rules

I have had a similar discussion with my drifting friends before and we came to the same conclusion. The tire change means things downstream will organically follow suit and change as well. Good chat fellas, thanks for letting me listen in.

I actually enjoy watching slower, more technical driving on tighter tracks. Watching comp’s on cart tracks is always my favorite. I think the sport would have more interest and gather more fans if it wasn’t so unobtainable.

great conversation!! the tire thing would be a very good step in the right direction

Dude, that was one of the better “podcasts” I’ve ever watched/listened to….. I dig it!

thank you both for this very much this gave me a lot of clarity and things i need to know ,when i went to fd Long Beach and fd Irwindale i wanted to ask some of the drivers the things it takes to be in fd because but I always get nervous.Now that ik this information I know how much more I have to push for this dream to be a fd driver idc how hard it’s going to be and how impossible it may be i will keep pushing forward till i make this dream possible💯🙏🏽god bless everyone I hope everyone accomplishes their goals and dreams🙏🏽

this was such a good discussion, hearing you guys spit ball ideas is so cool

I agree with trying to make the cars similar, like with the tire size, one of the bigger things for my self, that encouraged me to want to compete was klutch kickers original track, had top level cars to pretty stock cars and everyone had the ability to be competitive. That’s gonna help the sport grow!

One of the biggest things that seem to holding FD back are the venues. These little hole in the wall short track Ovals that look like shit just aren't a good look for the sport imo. I think more street tracks in big name cities would be extremely beneficial to the overall growth. It just lacks that glamour and spectacle that brings in sponsors. An old beat up short track in the middle of BFE isn't enticing to big name sponsors. Also, i think FD needs to land a big name tire company. Continental, Bridgestone etc. A Single tire sponsor that everyone runs with a set size like the 245. FD also needs to land a fuel sponsor. Sunoco is one of the biggest sponsors in nascar. That's where Nascar has an edge. The 2 largest consumables of the sport have big supporters. Overall there just needs to be more money thrown at marketing the sport so drivers have leverage when trying to land sponsors. Especially the lower tier like Pro 2. There's also wayyyyy too much down time during the events, which is a whole other can of worms in itself..

Such a great video gents. A big part of why I love Drift Indy Street League, we keep it simple and make cars look good. Cars aren't "Pro AM" builds, mostly stock power cars, 245 300TW limit, and we get to shred all day on like 2 pairs of tires. We have Miatas throwing down against 450HP corvettes. It's under $1000 a weekend for event fees, hotel, tires, fuel, and MAYBE some spare parts. But bringing down the price and power point to entering FD Pro Spec and Pro 1 would bring in more talent from the field and be more lucrative to sponsors. There is definitely a problem where there isn't enough money in this sport. Some of us want to make it to the professional level, but the monetary benefit isn't there yet.

Enjoy this vid thanks Chelsea. Your rule works about the tyre size. Its what we use in our state series. I run a big power car "450kw" and dudes in Ca18 200kw cars stick it to me in the battles. Its the best

2010 style FD with 2023 FD production quality would be so sick!!

this is so laid back ands cool topic to learn..kinda how i feel about drag racing came from Wednesday night bracket racing to now running or building my challenger for the x275 class which is so much to maintain ..thinking its just a drag type issue when its motorsports in general faster you go the more you spend and more we look into ways in making it affordable

So basically take it back to the early years of drifting as far as power, track size/layout and smaller tire spec, but since the skill level is so high, the driving would make the excitement. As well as the crowd being closer. You can still have a rowdy sounding car, you’ll have smoke. If it’s a concern with getting flooded with bad talent, make a tier system based on wins or something like that 🤷🏻‍♂️.

I love Chelsea's idea for FD. I do agree it would be better for the sport. In fact when prospec said they'd do no rear rad, no sequential. I got real excited about it.

Really interesting conversation, and some good points. In Europe we also need a better or some tire rules.

Your perspective is amazing chelsea. You'll be running things soon

245 tire rule is a great idea. FD needs to look at their own sustainability in this same light and help the drivers stay in

As a pro am driver I love these types of videos, it gives a good insight on pro programs

If I'm not mistaken D1NZ has a 265 tire cap or atleast they did and still run like 650-800hp n they look absolutely nuts still doing 80mph entries. It was one of my favorite series to watch especially when their tracks where more than 4 corners

In Aus our top series is a 265 semi slick tyre rule and only about the top 6 drivers stay on door consistently, and the push is to 800-1000hp with dog boxes and now quick changes. I agree that a 245 or 235 semi slick rule would bring the driving together and the battles closer. In time the push would go into suspension setup and ultimately get the most out of the small tyre. The motors could be smaller, tyres are cheaper, and closer driving. Also a larger field of competitors at that tyre size would eventually bring more people in.

Dude... I am creating a drift league over here down in central america... this video is spot on!!! Because I am restricting tire compounds and power/weight ratio. Something like less than 300whp, at least 2500pounds weight and street tires with TW no lower than 280

Lol at 42:55, straight dead eyes when Dan almost accidentally spills the beans on deane needing a car built 😂

This is one of the best and knowledgable videos ive ever watched

Honestly its nice to see someone who doesn't personally need the sport to get cheaper and more inclusive push for that change. Obviously chelsea would appreciate being able to take home a bigger pay check but with RTR and everything he doesn't need the sport to get cheaper to keep doing it but for other people a change like that would be life changing.

Why is Nascar so popular? Because it is so damn simple to understand who is winning; Who is in front. Why is football so popular? Dude took the ball and ran into the colored box. I actually tried to watch drifting a while back and the judging just didn't make a lot of sense, it was really difficult for the most novice/ignorant of viewer to understand what was going on. Drifting could be reached by a MUCH wider audience if it can be simplified in a way that a total newbie who doesn't even understand what a damn lug nut is can watch and see who is winning. Drifting is incredible in every way. It deserves to be in the same popularity realm as Nascar.

I think there was a lot of valid points. Initially as a viewer I found the biggest problem with watching drifting was understanding why someone won a battle. Sometimes I am still baffled however if they could make it easier that could help viewership. I like the idea of changing the tire size think if it makes the tandems easier and smoother that might make it easier to judge and viewers to understand. It also seems like changing the tire rules would be easy and cheap since you are buying new tires all the time. The real initial cost might be rims and suspension changes. I would think teams could turn down their cars with what they have to start.

I think there needs to be a new series for homologated drifting. I love formula d as a spectator because I wanna see these insane cars with you insane drivers and the insane budgets with ALL the cool parts. I do agree with you tho. An even playing field I think should come to FD but maybe not too crazy because you guys are the big dogs, everyone wants to be an FD driver and I don't think it should be TOO easy to get in. Like other sports, there HAS to be professionals that do it at that crazy level that normal people can't just hop in and go. I think the tire homologation is the way to go.

its an important topic. FD is headed to where GT3 and f4 are: you HAVE to be rich to even attempt it, and the audience is basically only family, friends, and industry people

Even for non professional drivers it's becoming very expensive especially for people who are staring in to drifting ..great conversation ...

As a fan it is really cool to see stuff running on the edge and blowing up now and then lool. I guess there is something to be said about watching the wildest shit possible. Currently, you already do have a more budget friendly series in pro spec. Some drivers even "choose" to stay but it typically isn't as exciting as pro

I think costs at the grassroots level need to get under control in order for the sport to grow and open up sponsors for FD. Tires are just flat out too much now. $150/tire when a stock 350z can smoke 2-3 sets in 1 weekend maybe more depending on how many laps you get. The average person cant spend $600-$900 a weekend on tires. $100 entry fee, Gas, etc etc drifting can easily hit $1200/weekend and thats in a stock 350z. 100% unsustainable as a sport. Building these cars has gotten nuts. $2500 angle kits, $1800 coilovers, etc etc its just too expensive. Then if you wanna tandem you gotta spend $3500 on a cage. Until these costs gets reigned in FD isnt going to grow. Ive seen so many people come and go all because they cant afford it. I've literally never seen someone go drifting and say meh id rather be drag racing...

Great points brought up, correct me if I am wrong but FD is one of the few that doesn't have a set of standards on the cars to hold them back/level playing field. I think you're right its bodyweight and tire size that are the only ways you could standardize.

I definitely love the idea of having the horsepower limits and tire limits, as someone who took family that doesn't like/enjoy cars, or even know what drifting was, when they got to see their first couple tandems, all excitement! Lowering the craziness of the cars allows more possible sponsors I would think. Tires, etc. But I also definitely think Formula Drift needs to step up their game! The championship is interesting or whatever, but so are many of the earlier battles (especially recently where the driving seems to have improved a lot) hype up the earlier battles in the bracket. I dunno, my .02 Can't wait to watch you guys this season!Get to see some east coast track in person this year! (Missing the west coast sadly)

Ah yes, another video. The combo we never knew we needed . S/O Chelsea for the RU-vid grind I see you 🔥

Denofas giving me hints on what motor swap and tire I need to run for 2023 🤔😂 ef

Man the more I think about it a power cap makes so so much sense. Ppl watch trad sports to see the athletes. Not the stadiums or the supporting kit. So maybe a power cap, standard tire size, and other baselines can help shift the focus off the cars and more to the drivers. That's the coolest part of the sport to me. Watching what the most talented drivers can do, not the smoke show. The cars have always been secondary.

One huge thing that i believe will help everyone is FD actually doing some decent marketing. Drifting is a very niche sport in the US and requires ALOT more advertising to get people to even know that the sport exists. This needs to be pushed out on TV too as there is a decent market there.

I was a fan of RadDan when he started. Now im a rad fan of RadDan because he is rad and is the man! 🤙🏻

For me low budget grassroots is always the way to go in any sport, it's there that you have the most fun, the moment you have big budget and big sponsors, you get dictated by what they want and the pressure is on, thats how the fun gets destroyed imo, i would put FD on less tire, less HP and smaller tracks, more technical.

Tire cap sounds good. Also growing grassroots track drifting to grow the consumer base,bringing in friends and family etc, overtake the 'takeover' public image. Better public image> maybe tv/nascar style? Also..lower the damn grassroots entry fees somehow .... lol I remember when it was 30 for a small track 60 for the full track 03-05 days.

I like this spec idea you're talking about. If the driving is better from this power and tire limit then it will be more entertaining as a fan. Also less power will allow more engines to be competitive, like K24's and EJ's, that would create more diversity in the sport as a whole.

I’m relatively new to drifting but not Motorsports. The thing I love about drifting is it’s grassroots feel and the freedom to almost build a car as one pleases, as I’m doing now. The one thing that stands out the most is the drivers own their own cars. That is not the case in other Motorsports. If that changes the sport will surely change and maybe be more governed and less attainable by the grassroots crowd.

1 more idea: Accessory events more year round on a FD channel. Touge, Gymkhana... (in line with the putting eggs in basket/12 directions of investment)

It may be hard to track/implement at this point in the series, but Formula 1 has budget caps on what the teams are allowed to spend ( even broken down by division of the program, not just gross total ) and lower performing teams are even allowed a handicap on their budgets to afford them an opportunity to catch up.

We need more classes 300whp, 500whp, 700whp and 1000+ classes would encourage driver skill

2nd Idea: Look at Formula / LeMan / NASCAR history. Take a good look at how long they took to get a real foothold, and the continued issues they had/adapted/ignored. None of them just popped up outta nowhere, and they all had their fair share of people trying to destroy them.

Rad video dudes!! Love it.

idea is perfect, in Latvia there is street class competition with eu road legal cars with limited tire size and all u need is some coillovers and a weldead diff and some supporting mods

I watch FD for the drivers. If they promoted the drivers, not the cars, this could totally happen. Adam Lz viewership in prospec was much higher because people tuned in for him despite the cars being lower level.

I belive that important factor is the layout design, doing it more technical will reduce the costs itself

Good talk guys! I took some notes and imo here are somethings I have noticed and some of my friends have noticed. In some areas throughout the U.S. there just aren't tracks that allow drifting or there are no places to go. There needs to be more events that aren't affiliated with formula drift. You need another/more drift series. You actually need more contestants. The entry fees should be beginner friendly and you need to award some type of prize whether it's money a temporary sponsorship on a team gear or one of your cars you have retired. These are just some thoughts but it would definately help. Some of you have been in the game so long you know how it works you have the funds and ability to network internationally. Your goal is at the end of the day make more money the only way to do that is just more of everything. More spectators, competions, events, tracks. Right now in a few places the closest thing they have to drifting is a 4 way intersection no barriers a mustang driver with horrible suspenion/driver mods an f-150 and a scat pack just begging "chase me" which is just crazy but that's what's happening. You gotta look at the income demographics too there aren't that many people who can buy a $20k+ car drop another 20K in mods only to crash it their first event or blow a motor and wait 3 months on parts or 3 months because all their local shops are stacked with work. The cost to drop a roll cage is very expensive. The rule requirements for the cages can also effect the beginners cost. Everything pricewise seems to be going up as well. Don't worry help is on the way. I have been observing the internet for sometime and there are people making it happen. But you guys said it yourselves you are the first generation of american drifters so you have to ask yourselves how much can you leave behind for tomorrow? I promise you if I walked down the street and surveyed "have you ever heard of drifting" what do you think their response will be? Lol more advertising just because were going electric it doesn't mean we have to stop drifting

Amazing content! More in depth discussions into sustainability and the future from people who live it every day. 5/5 would watch more of this 😒

in canada the tire limit for DMCC pro was 265 and EVERYONE was on zeknova's supersport rs. theres a lot of low budget people doing podiums

We ran 2 series in the UK with a control tyre and it made the battles better and kept costs down whilst levelling the playing field massively. Would be interested to know the cost of a 315 nitto or similer for a driver who isn’t receiving tyres for free as part of sponsorship

Interesting conversation! More than size, I think compound is key! Look at the example of the Valinos, they're destroying the drift scene in Europe as they are absurdly grippier than all the rest, and drivers are blowing up drivetrains to use these, they are risking they're car and crashing in every lap, it's just absurd, tandem it's not as good looking as before, etc...