How Honda's IMPOSSIBLE Engine BROKE MotoGP! 

Perhaps Honda should get ANGRY again and perhaps start winning races again?

Honda has forgotten more 4-stroke technology than most companies have learned

they should sell a v5

What Honda did with the crank angle to solve the V5 puzzle was genius. But 5 cylinder engines work well, even in a straight engine. Like the 2.5L petrol Audi engine in my humble VW T4 Transporter. With petrol engines between 2 and 3 liters. A four gets too rough, and a six gets too long. Five works. With the caveat of fuel injection. Trying to get a straight 5 run with a single carb is damn near impossible.

I think some Honda engineers lay awake at night coming up with these things while their competitors are comparatively lazy or less skilled.

Oval Pistons with 2 connecting rods per piston. Remember??. Incredible that those even ran as long as they did.

I miss when Honda still made innovative and experimental designs...

A 5 cylinder had the same weight limit as a 4 when GP went to 990cc At that time it was also not as much about fuel conservation and the max tank size was quite generous, they didn’t want half the field running out of gas on the last lap in 2002. My guess is everyone assumed a five was not practical but Honda (and later Team KR) did it

Very nicely done mate. Subbed.

Remember the 2T NS500 that won the 500cc championshp was a V3.

That was a great breakdown. At the beginning I tried to imaging how I would do it. I wasn't even close.

Amazing engineering, good video explaining it all, thanks

You do a great job explaining the mysteries of weird engine configurations. Thanks for the info.

During that time Aprilia ran 3 cylinder engines built by Cosworth, using F1 tech. They, the RS Cube, were the first GP bikes with ride by wire and pneumatic valve train and were considered the most powerful engines on the grid. However the electronic rider aids weren't nearly developed enough and the Cubes were extremely difficult to ride and also had other issues, one caught fire and tried to cook Colin Edwards.

Recently discovered your channel and man this is a goldmine

At <a href="#" class="seekto" data-time="172">2:52</a> describes using common crankpins while the image is of individual crankpins. Couldn't stop myself from pointing this out.

Honda also raced with an oval pistoned V4.

Amazing vid - TY ❤❤

And now I know about this V5, I need on in my life

I believe minimum weight regulations played a role too; going to a V6 would have raised the min. weight (undoing some of the power advantage) but going to a 5 allowed them to keep the same weight as the 4-cyl while getting the benefit of the added piston, ie. best of both worlds

Considering some of Honda's multi-cylinder mini monsters from the 50's & 60's, the only surprise is that it wasn't a V10 that revved to 25k+...

Be interesting to throw 500cc Direct Injected 2-Strokes into the mix but I doubt we'll ever see that. Good info, thanks.👍

I may be wrong on this but didnt they have a 5 cylinder back in the 60s? I think it was a 250 and the RPM range was insane.

An excellent presentation. The explanation of primary balance in a V5 was well put. But the back-to-front baseball cap! Really? At your age? Despite that, I've subscribed.

Love the video!😁😁

Can you please tell me which simulation is that when Doohan rides a 2T Rothmans Honda and is there an editor available for it? V.Z.

Imagine a 750cc or 990 two stroke engine - would be interesting to see in comparison regarding the power this might generate with the new technology like anti-wheeling and traction control

Interesting video but Honda's withdrawal from GP racing in the 60s (both 2 and 4 wheels) was not due to rule changes but the enormous drain on the company's resources and a need to prioritise efforts for normal production of products to sell. The company had by then achieved its objectives in establishing a strong global reputation for their engineering prowess.

Interesting story! Ir would be fascinating to hear how the designer engineer(s) came up with so radical a concept, let alone then convinced management to fund its development.

While Honda was overtaking other bikes in straight, still remember that goosebump triggering line from star sports commentator.. “Look at the power of Honda!!”

nice video. I do wish Honda still ran a v5

So why did they stop racing it? Rule changes?

Unbelievable, fun, and thorough review. Peace

There may be a point you are missing. I had read that since Honda was racing a v4 in WSB and had been for a very long time, they had complete knowledge of its advantages. No one else had a v four. If you take the v-750 ( RC45) and add a 5th cylinder you basically get the 990cc moto gp engine. I know its not that simple but Honda had decades of v four engineering behind them.

great dissection

How about the NR motor? That was truly bizarre

Did not mention how good the V5 sounds.

It was a genius idea - they got the best of both worlds by having the high revs of an inline 3 on one bank, and the torque of a twin on the other bank.

How about the honda st1100 and st1300 abs tourer bikes ....

Truly fascinating. Full credit all round.

Doug Hele designed a V5 for Triumph back in the 1960s - 70s. I am pretty sure he knew what he was doing.

Seems to me a V4 would have a rocking couple unless the middle 2 pistons were on the same bank and the outside 2 on the other. If this were the case then there will be a gap between the other banks outside pistons, may as well stick a 5th piston in there.

It always helps to have an extra spark plug burning the fuel as well

After Honda with Mike Hailwood destroyed every other bike manufacturer on the inline 6, in the 60s, the rules were changed to "engines will have less than 6 cylinders". Not sure if this is still the case.

Obviously square pistons would be more compact, what could possibly go wrong..................?

“My boy is wicked smart” 😉

As anyone would know , the reason for the 500 two stroke and 990 four stroke is both engines are really the same size ! Since a 2 stroke fires twice as often a 500 cc two stroke displaces the same amount of air as a 1000 four stroke firing twice as often ! Just like they still call a Mazda rotary 13b a 1.3 litre but in reality it moves 3.9 litres , as it runs on a different cycle , a rotor is a triangle , each side of a triangle displaces 650cc X 3 X 2 rotors ! Mazda is cheating , it's only counting one 650cc side of the rotor and one side 650cc on the other making 1300cc , fake it's like having a 5.0 V8 but only counting the 2 cylinders that are firing and so 1300cc and leaving out the other 6 cylinders ! Point is a 500 cc two stroke 4cyl fires the same amount of times at say 3000 revs as a 1000cc four-stroke 8cyl. And moves the same amount of air in both !

Awesome! Superbly explained 👍👏👌

While saying pistons on oposit sides share a common pin, a graphic shows them on seperate pins?!?!?! (min 2.58)

They should build a 2+4 stroke engine combined. Two 250 cc cylinders running 2-stroke and three 330 cc cylinders running 4-stroke. On the same crankshaft.

Why did the V5 go away?

Hos yes the V5 compare to crtossplane crank motors? Seems liokle the cpssplane does what the V5 .

Sounded like you said V4 engines share the same crank pins yet the animation you used sure looks like each rod was on its own pin....no? <a href="#" class="seekto" data-time="170">2:50</a> Oh wait are the crank pins much more than pins in that animation? Is each one a Z kinda thing staggering the rod positions on the two rods? Rather than straight pins with both con rods sharing identical axis well exactly like each pair of rods do in your animation of the V5 <a href="#" class="seekto" data-time="186">3:06</a>

The extra power pu;lse exp[anation is incorrect. Each engine produces the torque from 1000cc. The five cylinder Honda engine can rev to a higher rpm, thereby producing more POWER.

At <a href="#" class="seekto" data-time="173">2:53</a> the pistons DO NOT share the same crank pin!

Rpm makes horsepower displacement makes torque

Nice presentation but you missed the main reason why Moto GP went 4 stroke. 2 strokes are less efficient and more polluting, not achieving a full burn of the fuel air mixture before expelling some of the unburnt fuel it of the exhaust port. 4 strokes achieve a much higher burn rate of pretty much %100. This means that two fold if Moto GP went 4 stroke it would be a cleaner sport, but more importantly 2 strokes were being ruled out of manufacture for the road by emissions regs. So the manufacturers wanted to race 4 strokes like the 4 strokes they were building for the road.

Looks like Honda has very aggresive R&D but conservative in marketing. I've heard they have one of the biggest R&D budget in industries.

Nah, no V5... Give us back the CBX

i have a question, why didnt they create a v6 instead? i know the v5 worked out but im actually super curious why? is it something in the rules? or honda just want to do something crazy lol

Does any street bike uses V5?

Honda online 6 has perfect primary and secondary balance, but it's way to wide. So if Honda could do a 3 cylinder side block, why don't they, or others make a V6 engine so it'll have again, both perfect primary and secondary as well? By his logic, it wouldn't be too big as was the issue with the inline 6.

Another power pulse is not the full advantage (if any advantage at all). More and smaller pistons do two things: More valve area that give more air in and more power out. Smaller pistons also means shorter strokes and higher revs, again creating more power. This is something Honda had done before with their 5 and 6 cylinder 4 stroke engines in the 60's. The rulebook for the start of the 4 stroke erea was largely dictated by the most influenceable manufacturer, Honda. They had their 5 cyl engine on the drawing board before the rules were set and sneaked in a very important rule; No weight penalty for 5 vs 4 cylinders. (up to this point there were a weight penalty for each added cylinder). I think that went under the radar because who would be mad enough to make an Inline 5 and a V5 was almost unheard of. The engine were a ganious construction but they had this planned and pushed those rules according to the plan.

Didn't VW also make a V5? Not sure why they did it.

The rc211v was the finest MotoGP bike ever produced.

I wonder how that would feel in a road bike

Big two stroke race bikes are just too violent in their power delivery with tiny all or nothing power bands. Winning on one took geniuses like Rossi, Doohan, Rainey, Roberts.

A V6 should be awesome

I don't know much about MotoGP but I thought they can only use bikes that are in production , I don't think Honda sells the RC213

I own an ST1300 V4. Incredible bike. A touring bike that is also a crotch rocket.

I remember VW using a V5 I just read 1997-2005?..balance issue to solve there too and yet they still did it LOL WHY?? ?? Just for less parts? Anyone know here? Oh also Audio....which may have been basically same motors IDK Anyway Honda did not actually steal from Germans as I read the VW "V" was almost a straight 5...but it is a Vee because there is a 15 degree difference....so close they could still use ONE head for all cylinders! Meaning I imagine many did not even realise they were even looking at a Vee engine lol....WTH??

all of this was due to regulations weight limits were the same for 2 and 3 cylinders and for 4 and 5 cylinders

I might be a little off because I don't have the exact years , but didn't : Rossi , Burgess , and Yammee , throw your's and Honda's theories out with their evolutionary ( ha-ha ) inline 4 ,,, ?

In the 60's Honda produced more power by adding cylinders to their bikes.

Bring back the blue-smokers

Who was V4 in ‘02?

Can Honda beats Ducati down with this V-5 engine?

Some four cylinder 2-smokers for snogo's are making near 400 hp. Think about that.

So why not a v6?

The Dream Engine!!!

HONDA; Had One once, Never Do it Again....

How the mighty have fallen.

It's still unbeatable

I love your channel and nerding out about engines and racing. Personal nitpick though: those huge flashing text overlays annoy me to no end. I understand why you do it, but my god just show me the clips without flashing huge text over it. Or put it under at least. Hope you don't mind the feedback 🙈

What happened to Hondas out of round piston engines?? I believe they were oval!!!???

It's to bad Honda hasn't had a good rider since Nicky Hayden, in addition Honda has put allot into Formula1 the last 2 decades

So why did they stop using this fantastic V5 engine?

So why for there stop usnh yhr V5? Man! That should've been an obvious thing to say at th nd.

How is a V5 "a different direction ENTIRELY" lol "entirely would be running a rotary or something not simply 5 rather than 4 cylinders.....just saying

Before we go into that, I want to tell the history of the world. Bye.

RIP 69

The Fan-Boys did it again 🤷‍♂️

This guy: “a V5 is impossible” Same guy: “here’s how they did it” 🤦🏻‍♂️

Bit of a perspective on what was actually going on here. All this was happening at the beginning of the four stroke era. These engines were being run side by side with 2 strokes and most of the paddock was still running them. On paper the V5 would have the most amount of hp and all manufacturer engineers new this. Budget constraints was the deciding factor on most teams as the majority of them were dealing with the transition from 2 to 4 stroke and many were using both types. There was nothing really genius about the Honda. It is just honda was willing to spend the money.

I dont think it broke Moto GP, Moto GP has broken them. They cant finish a race without crashing and are always last.... Cant be that good of an engine.

The big red subtitles in the middle of the screen are very f@cking annoying.

honda is going backwards Ducati have an awesome combustion chamber and aero , yamaha crossplane Honda WtF nothing as a resuly the lose the drive out of the corners and suck at the end of a straight Honda management is representative of the sickness that is japan atm

nothing in existence is impossible. improbable things arent impossible. people are morons saying impossible when things are improbable

Cool

Dude heard what primary balance was once and based his whole personality on what he thinks engine balance means