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@@ryanjosef The voltage doesn't really matter, they can just add 2 more cells making it 12v, ni-mh resting voltage is more around 1.36, ni-cd are 1.3, so the total voltage would actually be around 13-13.6v and still totally acceptable for a vehicle as alternators push around 14.2-14.5v
@@redrevo_117 18650s come in many different grades with the cheap knock-off stuff not even pushing 10A per cell vs 50+A peak for the good ones. Probably best to start with at least two parallel strings to avoid grossly overloading a single string with an almost dead-short, 100+A short-circuit current through a single string won't be good for their health.
@@teardowndan5364 And there is 18650 cells made for different applications. Cells which are used in power hand tools can give larger current than those which are used in laptop battery. Laptop needs quite small current in long period whereas power tool needs large current for short time.
@@Topsiekku They were redoing an experiment they already have before in this case. But typically these videos aren’t brand new as they are uploaded in Russian first and occasionally take years before being uploaded in English.
Next time add the batteries in reverse order. The reason the first batch of 120 discharged is because the first row of batteries drained with the first tests. This caused the battery pack to become unbalanced. The batteries added subsequently then began flowing current towards the previous row of batteries as the first rows had lower voltage than the new rows. Trying with rechargables would also be great!
no. that should not be the case as each set of 8 batteries are running in parallel with the previous set. otherwise the voltage would not remain at 12V.
@@carlosgaspar8447 Yes the batteries are in parallel and that's exactly the reason why one parallel set would drain into the previous parallel set. If one set has drained to 11V after testing the starter the next set at 12V would have a 1V difference and it would start to drain onto the previously installed set in attempt to balance each other. This kept happening each time they added a set, tested the starter, and then added another set.
The contact surface not being individual would also mean there are probably not full contact on all rows at all time. It's not a true scientific experiment, but I don't think they ever aim or claim their stuff is😊
@@ChicagoMillingCo. no. You are describing batteries in series. Each battery in a set of 8 drains to the next. 8 to 7 to 6...to 1. Then there is a large plate of copper which directly attaches to the battery terminal.
already been done (electric cars) and the issue is the bms to deliver the amps required. if u ignore the bms u may be able to get 25 amps from a battery and u need between 300-600 to start a car. 14.5/3.6 = 4ish 400/25 = 16 4*16 = 64 18650 batteries to start a car with no bms to reach the required amps and voltage which is why lead acid outperform lithium batteties when it comes to cca and why they wont be replaced anytime soon.
@@Nickerian91 Lots of BMS units use contactors as charge/discharge for this purpose. LiPo may be a better choice also thanks to higher C rates. A decent 4S lipo could replace a car battery for sure (cycle life would suffer however).
@@mike-drums-maine your welcome, 12 cylinder and diesel trucks take more 500 amperes at 13 volts...diesel is high compression 25:1 so allot if amperafe starters
What would really make this work better is a capacitor start system. Have a look into using a capacitor bank. Then you can slowly extract all the power from a few AA cells and use it all at once for starting.
@@gizmofrek and 3.7V instead of 1.5V for AA AA alkaline is 1.5V at 2200mA max 18650 is 3.7V at 2200mA to 10000mA But note A is max not amps per hour. Meaning the AA has only about 60 seconds at 2200mA.
Bear in mind - AAs have a very little high current capability, if you short an aa, it gives about 5A peak and QUICKLY drops.. It would want 1more battery in series (9S instead of 8S), THAT would help. Next time try 18650 lions (3S) or 18650/21650 lifepo (4S)
The cable you're using may be too thin. That looks like maybe 12AWG stranded, which is good for ~25 amps but not much more. I wonder if a thicker cable could've helped reduce the voltage drop.
I feel that with a user name like yours you probably know that as they pull cranking amps the resistance of that small wire creates enough voltage drop that the starters available torque drops off dramatically?
This is a real experiment. The amps is the importance here. Maybe not the outcome we wanted but still a real deal figure it out thing. I say good job fellas 🥂
Its not consistent enough, though. A proper experiment would have used all new cells for the entire battery with each test, as battery voltage wont be able to exceed what the lowest cell can produce, thats why you cannot replace one D cell in a dead flashlight and get it to work (as a cell discharges it will have higher internal resistance and will drop the circuit voltage). Yea that would be VERY cost prohibitive which is why they should do this experiment again but with rechargeable cells (recharge after each test)
Excellent Garage 54 ... awesome episode. Although it should be certain that all the batteries should have perfect contact! Should be a better system, spring loaded or so! for each row.
It would pay to test each cell individually before you install it as one bad cell could be a resistive weak Link in the chain for the output of all the rest of the batteries in a series configuration
Excellent demonstration of voltage vs power. You can have 12V nominally but, if the current isn't there, the power isn't there. A few rows of AA's in parallel looks like a lot of resistance in the circuit. But lots and lots of rows in parallel reduces the internal resistance of the whole down to the starter's own internal resistance. Enough current flows and voila, the starter windings do their job.
capacitors unlike batteries can expend their total electrical potential in an instant , I mean you could get some of those large caps from car stereo setups but you would have to make a circuit to keep the capacitors from instantly discharging and do some math to have the farad rating over time with a limiting circuit = the amount of time a battery can deliver the power (amp hours or something) . it certainly could be done but it would be very dangerous.
@@ryanjosef A capacitor, Garage 54 style, would have to be a gigantic stack of 4'x4' sheet metal separated by wax paper. Put a heavy weight across the top to minimize the gaps between the sheets and charge it up to, say, 96VDC for starters. Put a current limiter in there and see if it will start a Lada. It may turn out to be a big flop but, Garage54 does what many people wonder about.
@@ryanjosef A capacitor will only deliver the amount of energy that the connected load is drawing. Capacitors can and will dump all of their energy in an instant if you short out the terminals and give a direct low resistance path for the charges to equalize. But, if you connect an LED light for example, even a 5 Farad super capacitor will only discharge the amount of amperage that the LED consumes. Although the water analogy is not that great for explaining electricity, think of it like a 3" fire hose being hooked to a fire hydrant on one end but then on the other end you hook up several adaptors to choke the outlet down to a 3/8" bathroom sink flexible water supply line. That fire hose will only flow what the 3/8" supply line will allow through itself. If a starter motor can draw 100 amps at 12 volts and run at that current for 2 seconds to start an engine and you build a super cap bank capable of delivering 1000 amps at 12 volts for 1 second, you will be able to run that starter for several 2 second bursts. It won't dump 1000 amps into the starter and blow it up. That"s not how electricity works.
@@mannys9130 The only problem is capacitor voltage being charge dependent. Even if you spent small portion of the capacitor charge, output voltage will drop significantly.
The energy density of the car battery filled with AAs vs its original state is interesting. Using higher density cells would be interesting to see how few cells of similar shape would be needed
Those batteries do recharge but to get sufficient current back to start the engine again they need over 10 minutes so they might vent or leak as they are not designed for charging operation. I've charged those AA's for as long i can remember me, usually 2-5 minutes on a charger just to increase the voltage and you get somewhat an another round on whatever you are using but the problem is the voltage drops suddenly because they can't get an actual charge before things turn sketchy, however i did charge a lot of them for hours, most didn't show any external signs of failure except that they were getting hot, they just seemed like they gave up and didn't last a minute with a load. You can just increase their voltage a little bit for 1-2 times.
96 d-cells wired correctly will start a car... once! Yes I tried it and I'm glad I did it outside. Nearly half of the batteries popped, the rest smoked. The carbon rods in each cell super-heated rather than going flat. This was in the late 70s when alkaline were still fairly new and very pricey. I made 12 battery packs of 8 each, giving me 12 volts. I then connected those packs in parallel to boost the amps to a measly 10 amps, just enough to turn over a 4 cylinder car engine for 5 seconds. once it fired I let go but it was too late, the "battery" I made LEAPED off the fender with a bang loud enough to make my ears ring, plus I had hot materiel splat on my arm and the side of my head. DO NOT TRY THIS, IT WILL HURT!!! A lot... The hospital told me I had 1st and 2nd degree burns over 10% of my body and it was a week before I could hear out of my left ear. I was VERY lucky I didn't lose my left eye. I was a dumb teenager that was just messing around and it cost me and my parents big time. These were carbon batteries, not what they used in the video. And before someone says I wired them wrong etc... I did not because they were sitting there for 20 minutes while I was rigging them up to the starter leads. I knew quite well how to wire 2 or more car batteries in parallel to get more amps and to not cross wire it so they back-fed to each other. The only reason they exploded was the sudden and rapid discharge caused the carbon rods in the batteries heat up fast to red hot, the water from the electrolyte paste flashed to steam causing the battery cases to burst. Need more proof? Take a old style carbon battery, remove the rod and hook jumper cables to it and your car battery (leave it running, it will drain the car battery too) it will glow first red, then white and pop. Like a firecracker. Yes, I have....
I got one of those compact "emergency jump-starter" lithium packs, and it's about 1/8 the size of that Lead-Acid battery. I wanted to see if my little 4-cyl Sunfire "could" start before buying a new battery for it. It had been sitting for about 8 years, but it cranked faster than it did with the new battery. Those LiPo batteries are no joke.
For this to work properly you would need to add some diodes and capacitors to make sure no drain happens when not in use but than give all the current at once when switching on the starter. That's why in every electronic that's battery powered uses diodes and capacitors to make sure you get every amp possible.
5:45 this is funny. The student is ready to do what he tells but doesn´t know if he is going to tell. He looks into the camera by keeping his face straight and the students face is confused.
Alkaline batteries will definitely recharge. You used to be able to buy wall chargers for them. The cells are not designed to be good at recharging though, so you only have a very limited number of times that recharging will work, and each recharge is less capacity. The problem here was you didn't let them recharge long enough.
bmi russian, your awesome for how you translate what these guys are saying, and for sticking with it. I'm used to that voice and changing it would kinda suck.
Thanks for showing us why car makers dont use alkaline cells for cranking :) I wonder if using C or D cells would improve the current draw capability, perhaps you could get away with less batteries (cells) even if they would take up similar space. Also I concur with other comments, try using rechargeable battery cells so you can start each experiment from the same state of charge. Most rechargeable batteries have higher current draw capability as well, but the important part is to start each experiment the same so u can have an accurate test result.
Lol!!!😂😂😂 SMFH, You guys kill me!!! Once I was running late for work and it also just happened I had left a interior light on in my car that night before! So the wife was already gone for work, but I needed a very quick solution for a jump start and not a charge! At this time I had 4+ Craftsman rechargable 19.5V battery packs for the cordless equipment. I decided that it would have to work! I have rolls of heavy 12ga wire in the garage, so I made a quick few jumper wires across 3 of the 19.5 battery packs In our to increase the amperage of them and doubled up the 12g wires to the cars 12v battery. It was completely a very quick fix I was praying would work and not fry the cars electrical system! I attempted to crank the engine and it to my surprise turned over, but it wasn't fast enough. So I had one more charged 19.5v left I wired into the series now going with 4 battery packs to my cars 12v battery. Believe it or not, it cranked the engine right over then and it started. That was when I was much younger and more eager to take chances with everything in life Lol. But today I play things much safer...... But when you are in a desperate situation and don't want to lose your job, you are willing to do dumb things I guess? So yes it's more than possible to start a vehicle by using much smaller batteries if you have enough to tie together in series.
1.5V Alkaline batteries generally comes with 1580-1590mV out of the package. Let's say 1.6V each. Lead-Acid batteries can store potential voltage 14.4V-14.7 for cycle use. 15V won't damage any electrical component on a car. 16V probably won't damage too but can't be sure. So instead of using 8 series, if you used 9 series of batteries you could get more Watts from the batteries thus you can start the engine with less batteries.
If you use NIMH batteries, I expect that you will require fewer of them because the internal resistance of them is much less. Also, I wonder if the batteries were configured a bit differently, the results would be better. Make several 6 volt packs in parallel and then put those packs in series. That way, every "pack" of batteries won't be stacking each cell's internal resistance. Or maybe that makes no sense? I would have to think about it more.
There are differences in batteries you might missed it. Normal Alkaline has bit higher internal resistance. So it will not give a lot energy immediately. Maybe 2-5A but sure not a lot. Rechargeable has much lower internal resistance. So it can give more energy. More than 10A is possible. But it will make battery also hot if used long time. Problem is the lower voltage, just 1,2V but thanks to lower internal resistance it will make enough energy for starter motor, and you can charge it up. If you charge NiMH more up, it can go to 1,35V! That is much higher, but its designed to hold 1,2V for long time. Lead battery holds itself less energy per area. NiMH cell is better to hold energy per area. Li-Ion is much higher. Special 1,5V rechargeable batteries exists but they're less cheap than 1,2V batteries. Rechargeable Alkaline battery exists. Box full of NiMH batteries has more energy than standard Lead battery.
When you put a charge on a primary battery,it kills it,if you disconnect the charging system to the battery, you would have more number of starts.and if let the batteries rest a few hours, you may get a few more starts.Try this with a Dodge gear reduction starter motor,it may surprise you.
Yeah, what others have said. With only 12V of potential, need to put out a LOT of current. Remember: starter motors are essentially doing like those old time cartoon characters, like Popeye, going out to start their old-timey automobile engines by hand, by having to turn a crank that causes the engine to initially turn over. Getting the starter to turn is easy with no load. But the crankshaft, the pistons are all much heavier mechanical resistance. Then it also needs to put out voltage that'll be stepped up high enough to get the spark plugs starting as well plus carry whatever the rest of the electrical load that may be on a car, like lights, dash/instrument panel, whatever. And every time you test it on the starter, even unloaded, that's probably a hefty drain and the remaining power capacity will be increasingly less relative to each newly added rows of batteries.
Definitely need amperage. Each regular AA has between 500-700 Milliamps per 1.5 V Not sure if they're alkaline or carbon but I agree with others rechargeable batteries will work. In a jam I once used a 18V DeWalt battery pack using solid copper wire as the jumper to boost the dead 12v battery and it worked like a charm I had to let it transfer some of the juice beforehand otherwise the leads would get very hot .
Try using rechargeable 1.2V AA Ni-Mh cell, but you need to put them 12 in series to get 14.4V nominal voltage. It should be work better than this, and it is rechargeable too
Trying it with rechargables is a neat idea (you would need rows of 10 rather than 8, assuming you are using NiMH) and could you recharge them with the car's alternator?
Once we had a flat battery and my plan was to buy three six volt lantern batteries and put them in series and dump all their power into the car battery. Unfortunately the store only had two, which was not enough voltage to force a decent current into the battery (would have been almost nothing). Some know it all came up and although he did give us a tow-start, which was appreciated, he criticised my attempts to at using these batteries and wouldn't hear the point that I was actually after *three* of them. I reckon three would have done the trick. I wasn't trying to start the car directly from them just dump their charge into the car battery to get a bit of a surface charge.
You can actually recharge alkaline batteries but the process is very slow and prone to leaking. They can take some flash charge but its not efficient and with time will also leak due to the crystaline formation inside expanding and pushing the liquid out.
@@volvo09 not to mention they degrade quickly once discharged, so its best to charge them the moment they hit the floor. I was able to charge an alkaline one from 1.0V (open circuit) to 1.5V with 90% of its capacity after 1 discharge, and it worked, but it leaked a few months later. It seems something still happens inside even after finishing charging it.
Dry cell batteries will deliver you the voltage no problem until you try to load the circuit. However, their collective internal resistance will reduce the output voltage considerably. I'd love to see a temperature reading of the batteries. So 8 x 1.5 volts will not be enough! On recharging the no load voltage will be higher than 12 volts so a 12 volt charger will not overcome 300 x 1.5 volt = 450 volts.
The issue in the beginning was you were just adding fresh batteries to stressed out and discharged batteries. All those cells in series will need a balancing BMS or battery Equalizer to keep them from wondering apart in voltage. And of course, use secondary/rechargeable batteries. I don't remember why or what will happen if you try to charge primary/single use batteries.
What I really want to see, is you do this test again with ultra-capacitors wired in series to safely cover the max charging voltage of the alternator, and separately test normal electrolytic capacitors individually rated above the alternator like 16volts or something. Ultra-capacitors have a lot of capacity for a capacitor, but like those little batteries, they individually can only handle low voltages, so you need a lot wired in series, and a capacitor calculator online because wiring capacitors in series reduces their capacitance. But there are normal electrolytic capacitors that can be rated up to high voltages, like 100v, and you can just wire them in parallel to combine their capacitance. You can start with a lot of ultra-capacitor series chains or a lot of 16v or whatever normal capacitors in parallel, then start removing parallel connections, to see the minimum capacity and parallel caps it takes to crank a cold engine.
using the batteries may be nice idea but you gotta remember the "demand" of the power. not what it can give or how long it can last under load. I fly drones and use LIPO batteries, having this thought. the "C" rating where the power discharges quick. using those standard AAA batteries have extremely low C rating so this may be why it took 300 of them just to get the motor cranking. I would suggest you to try lipo instead of the AAA. but probably a dangerous idea.
If you were to try to start a car using AA batteries, you'd need a whole lot of them! To get the 12 volts required by a car's starter motor, you'd have to connect 8 AA batteries in a row. But that's just for the voltage. Now, to get the necessary power (measured in amps), you'd need a lot more sets of these 8-battery rows, all connected together. We're talking about 160 to 240 sets of 8 AA batteries, depending on the car. So, you'd end up needing a whopping 1,280 to 1,920 AA batteries in total.
A typical car battery provides 12 volts and can supply around 400-600 cold cranking amps (CCA) to start an engine. One AA battery supplies 1.5 volts, and most alkaline AA batteries can provide a maximum current of about 2-3 amps. To reach 12 volts, you would need to connect 8 AA batteries in series (1.5 volts x 8 = 12 volts). However, to achieve the necessary current, you would need to connect multiple sets of 8 AA batteries in parallel. Assuming an average AA battery can provide 2.5 amps, you would need to connect 160-240 sets of 8 AA batteries in parallel to reach the 400-600 amps required to start the car (400 ÷ 2.5 = 160 and 600 ÷ 2.5 = 240). In total, this would require 1,280-1,920 AA batteries (8 batteries per set x 160-240 sets).
You don't need just voltage. What's more important for starters and batteries for cars is amps. A car battery will have 12 volts, but it will have a few hundred amps. Amps are crucial. But I'm pretty positive you guys already know that
standard AA battery has about 400 to 900 milliampere hours with a voltage between 1.2v and 1.5v. lets assume its around 500 milliampere hours. and the car needs lets say 50 amps that would equate to 100 batteries to meet the minimum amount. "Without calculating resistance across the pack"
All batteries are rechargeable, just got to do it the correct way. Dry cell batteries need charged with a forward to reverse bias of 10:1. say 500mA forward and 50ma reverse.
Well, 13.5 volts.... Also, with discharge, the inner resistance in a battery will diminish. If coupled in parallel with other batteries, a partially discharged battery will hence cause a power drain, reducing the performance of the good batteries to the same as the discharged one
Alkalines will recharge even though they say not too. It does effect capacity rather quickly though. I used to throw then in a ni-cd charger and then use them again on rc cars. Worked fine for several charges.
You can actually start the car with a lot less AA batteries, what you do is run down a regular car battery so its to weak to start the car than string a bunch of AA batteries together so you have about 16 to 20 volts and use that string to recharge the car battery.. do not try to start the car until the car battery stops rising in voltage. ElectroBOOM did that and it worked.
Aren't you supposed to drive the car in order to charge the battery? From what I remember, load must be exerted upon the engine or simulated via dyno to produce significant re-charging. The AA's take significant load starting an engine hence it probably takes significant engine load to charge- assuming the batteries are built to be recharged instead of forcefully recharged. This can work if you use rechargeable batteries instead and drive the car to charge.
Those 1.5 small batteries will recharge if you use Re-charge-able ones just like ones I have in my shaver I don't buy Batteries I can't Re-charge it saves me lot money in my pocket.
18650s should try but need to setup alt to charge them before hand it will be a great way to see if it makes a better battery lasting longer than old lead acid
A volt and ammeter at the same time as trying the starter will give you some information that may become useful. Edit: You got to that but have you checked the weight of the new and old battery?
You would have better success using type C or D Batteries......of get a load of 18650 cells and find out the minimum to start the engine BTW....that lada engine sounded quite smooth 😊😊😊
try it with rc car battery cells and you should have topped the battery box max aa batteries that could fit and took it out as daily driver all day without turning engine the first few hours.
I believe the batteries should charge roughly 4-6 times before the capacity is lowered to far and rendered unusable. It is risky as they can only ever be charged slowly and even then they can be charged for short intervals of about 30 seconds on and off for it to be considered "safe"... not sure about all battery chemistries, but the numbers used are about average.
