How Mass Effect Wastes The Geth 

Here's that promised pinned comment: The only way that Legion is not entirely out of character, is if the Reaper code has 'indoctrinated' them. Legion going from entirely anti-Reaper to demanding the use of the Reaper upgrade code would be entirely explained if the Reaper code in their programming them was what was influencing this decision. It would also explain why Legion keeps deceiving and lying to you in the missions. Potentially even meaning that they show you false records of the morning war. But there's zero evidence that this is the case. It's never even considered in game that the reason Legion could be so insistent on using the Reaper upgrade code is 'indoctrination;' and in the end Geth work to destroy the Reapers, so obviously that code is doing an awful job at controlling them if it really was what happened. As I said, this is basically a mix of stretches and head-canoning, but sadly it's the most consistent interpretation of Legion by a mile.

Even with the ability to bring Legion on Tali's loyalty mission the true highlight of it was still the Qwib-Qwib.

My only explanation is that the Reaper upgrades gave Legion an understanding of what individuality is. & He determined that he wanted the rest of the Geth to experience it. In ME 2 you can see Legion struggle with the concept of individuality. Explore his dialogue enough & when something indicates he has individuality he freezes up a little & becomes thoughtful.

On the Quarian death toll, I think something often ignored is that the Geth weren't just a labour force, we see how Virtual Intelligences are integrated into every day life in Mass Effect. It's reasonable to assume the Geth were similarly integrated into the Quarians vital infrastructure to a significant degree. Imagine if our modern society had all of it's essential infrastructure that keeps food, power, ect going stopped working, the Quarians basically went to war with their own infrastructure, the death toll from lack of supplies was likely equal to those killed directly by the Geth. There is also how Geth intelligence works, the Geth become smarter the more there are due to their hive mind, while a single Geth intelligence is described as being on par with animal survival instincts, are which is why when the Quarians destroyed the Dyson Sphere the Geth's collective intelligence took a massive hit and they took up the Reapers offer. The Geth were both far less advanced back then and had a number of units destroyed during the opening stages of the Morning War, the Geth were likely operating on pure survival instincts and the second the Quarians fled Rannoch they were now able to properly consider the implications of annihilating their creators, since the threat to their survival had passed. While I don't think it excuses the Geths responsibility for the sheer number of Quarians killed (whether done directly or indirectly), I think it does provide more context for the numbers thrown about. I also think it is just another case of writers not comprehending scale and just throwing numbers and statistics without really considering the implications they present. The Writers also absolutely had a bias towards the Geth from game one, Shepards conversations with Tali in Mass Effect 1 show as much where the paragon options are mostly sympathizing with the Geth.

One of the worst decisions Bioware ever made is locking him behind a mission that triggers the endgame. If you want to achieve the best possible result from Suicide Mission you have to recruit every single squadmate and complete their loyalty missions before recruiting him.

Pretty hilarious that the misunderstanding of the writers ends up making legion the opposite of his goals

The geth indiscriminately attacking in the morning war reminds me of the bugs in starship troopers (book) where they couldnt conceptualize individuality or individual responsibility so they assumed it was a species wide decision to land on one of their planets

I had completely forgotten about the "get do not INTENTIONALLY infiltrate" comment and I'm so happy I was reminded of it 😂

The bit with the N7 armor being pushed forward by someone not involved in Legion's writing is very sad. And very telling of how this industry works and why we're missing out of solid storylines in gaming sometimes.

One of the things I had a problem with in ME3 is how they tried to force the whole AI vs organics thing as the main thing of mass effect. It was a point, but it was never THE POINT.

I would absolutely love a video on the crew kidnapping. It's such a poorly thought out bit of an otherwise great game.

The way I'd have ended it, is change Legion to be the only true Geth without Reaper code imbedded in him. Then he 'disseminates' himself to spread the original backup of the Geth code out to all Geth, thus restoring the Geth to their original self's. Also, whilst Legion would effectively be 'dead' at the end of Mass Effect 3, the fact if the Geth continue with their planned upload all units to the Dyson Sphere, Legion has a door to be returned to the cast as a Messianic-Geth like figure.

Mass Effect 3 and Wasted Potential. Literally go together like PB&J. Seriously the best Geth scenes are at Operation Earth and you have to let the Quarians Die, and then you get to talk to the Leader Prime who is actually Chill. Seriously the Fact we couldn’t get a few missions with Geth infantry was so dumb.

I wanted to table-flip by the time you got around to the Reaper code. There is absolutely no way you can fit that into existing canon. None. Spot-on. It’s like the new writing team in ME3 were incapable of thinking in any alien terms.

Legion: I have to go now. My planet needs me. That's how Legion's death has always felt; just nonsensical. I love this analysis, I miss the ME2 version of the Geth and what could have been. I don't think Andromeda touched the Geth at all besides explaining that the Initiative were able to get real time date from Andromeda while in the Milky Way to pick golden planets using some magical Geth telescope.

One of my favorite lines of Legion is; "There was a hole." It's so perfect. My friend who had never played Mass Effect, watched as I spoke to Legion and he quickly became his favorite.

I'll never forget how the Geth-Quarian resolution made me feel the first time I played it. I'll never forget the fear the non-peace outcomes of the war left me with when I first witnessed them, to the point where I refuse to play Mass Effect 3 unless it's through a save file that allows peaceful resolution. And I can't hear anything you say in this video and absolutely say you're wrong about any of it. This was an exceptionally eye-opening take on the whole thing.

I understand that it may not be the story we want, but the easy fix is to address head on the how fucked up it is that the only way for the Geth to be accepted is to fundamentally change themselves. It only requires a few additional lines, and it mostly squares the circle. I actually hope this is how the sequel handles the event. I think a lil' retcon here allows for much richer Geth storylines in the sequel.

I was so disappointed with Legion and the Geth in ME3 for all the reasons you mention in this video. But also because they’re all probably going to be dead in ME4 because the only ending where Shepard lives is the Destroy ending.

I think these kinds of videos are important to help people remember that it wasn't just ME3's ending that was badly written

I feel dumb now, I always disliked the Geth wanting to use the Reaper upgrade code because of Legion's philosophy of independent evolution to attain one's goals, but i never appreciated the depth of the stupidity at play. That human-reaper example you gave around 15 minutes is perfect, how does he go from thinking thats amazing, to thinking that they aren't really alive??

It's mad that there can be so many plot holes and mass effect is still loved it's my favourite trilogy ever I've played it so many times

Wow that bit about “Legion welds the piece of armor on AFTER being on the Normandy to signify his integration” is WAY cooler than the obsession route.

The video was good. Another way for Legion's Story to end which would have a nice thematic resonance would be instead of Legion always dying, there could be some kind of Renegade/Paragon Check to force Legion to permanently cut himself off from the Geth Network, isolating him and his Reaper Code, making itself a full, individual AI. Legion would have to reckon with the fact that they're now in the same position that Shepherd was in at the end of Mass Effect 2 after the Human Reaper battle, a decision that they didn't completely agree with at the time. Legion won't respect this decision though, having its agency stripped by Shepherd making a choice for them in living without the Geth Collective. Not seeing any point in their own personal destruction, it chooses to continue to live, but not as a part of Shepherd's squad. Maybe, since it lacks the collective, it will set out to see and experience as much as it can, as an individual. Legion's survival could create some nice moments in the Citadel DLC or some nice conversations and analogues with Edi.

I like to imagine Shepard meeting Legion before going to Omega to recruit anyone else, and then I use a save editor to add Legion to get earlier conversations from it. I tried it once and all the conversations made me love Legion and therefor I do that every playthrough since then.

Good to see you back on RU-vid. I especially enjoy your videos on Mass Effect and this one was excellent.

I completely agree with you on all points. The geth are expanded upon so much in Mass Effect 2 through Legion, shown to be something so unique and interesting. ME3 simplifying and dumbing them down hurt my soul and Legion's death being both baffling and unavoidable was just the icing on this turd cake. Also, I thought I was the only one who referred to Legion as they/them but it's really cool to hear you do the same. I never understood why characters in the games refer to them as he because a) despite my best efforts, I have been unable to find any genitals on Legion and b) there are 1,183 geth programs on that mobile platform, Legion literally is not a singular individual.

And yeah, I kinda just headcannon that the Reaper code upload is nothing but a unifying tech. It gives them instant communication across all distances, giving them the goal they always wanted, total unity, and in that clarifying moment, they realize peace with their creators is possible.

In my opinion, I think it’s that the geth learn to appreciate individuality to the point they want it. During Legion’s loyalty mission he is completely surprised by the heretics coming up with infiltrating runtimes. He then questions Shepard about it, and wonders why this individuality is so important to organics. One of Legion’s defining traits is that he is there to learn about organics and bring the data back to the collective. I think that upon realizing that the Dyson Sphere was impractical, they went for the next best choice. It’s also critical to understand that the reason why the geth don’t want to be alone is because they want to be able to keep their cognizance, which is only possible by being together. If they choose individuality, they don’t need that togetherness and can therefore move past the semi hive mind desire. My guess is that they never considered individuality to be a viable option until the Reapers arrived and not until Legion returned having learned about EDI.

Another way to improve the ending of the ME3 geth storyline would be to make it purely about survival rather than individuality, and then let Shepard choose who they want to convince. They would show early on that Legion still doesn't want the geth the be separated into individuals, but they still express some reluctant admiration for how incredibly advanced and efficient the reaper code is. Then, when the death of the reaper cuts the geth off from the software that they needed to defend themselves from the quarians, Legion doesn't want to upload it to "improve" their people, but merely to avoid their extermination. At that point, Shepard has the choice to either allow Legion to proceed, and try to convince Han'Gerrel to hold fire, demonstrating to the soon-to-be upgraded geth that there can be peace, or Shepard can try to convince Legion that the geth's survival isn't worth it if it means sacrificing all that they are. Legion's actions being the result of blind desperation, rather than about aspirations of becoming individuals, seems a bit more in character. Especially given how many geth are dying, which would, as Legion pointed out earlier, would narrow their perspective. Convincing Gerrel proceeds the same way that the existing storyline does. But convincing Legion causes him to recognize their error in judgment and delete the code. Then, you could have Legion themself contact Gerrel (having a geth reach out direclty to the quarians seems like it would be more impactful than using Shepard as an intermediary, in my opinion). Legion informs him of what they've done and requests that the quarians cease fire. Gerrel hesitates, but when Tali, Raan, and Korris speak up in support of Legion, Gerrel concedes and stops the attack. By having the geth make the first move in favor of peace despite all the conflict (and risking their existence in doing so), this would conclusively demonstrate to the quarians how wrong they have been about the geth. And by having Shepard be the one to convince Legion, this would parallel the end of Legion's loyalty mission in ME2, where Legion, unable to determine the "right" course of action, defers to Shepard's perspective*. And then Legion commits suicide in order to destroy the last remnants of the reaper code. Or, alternatively, before Shepards fight with the reaper, show the reaper nailing the escape vehicle that has Legion and the squadmates, causing Legion to be so severely damaged that they'll die soon, regardless. And it doesn't need to be a speech check. Instead, it could be based on the choices you've made thus far. If Tali survived ME2, then she would support Legion. Korris would do likewise if you saved him during his mission. Raan would voice her support if you chose to stand up for Legion while they and the admirals were all on the Normandy. So Gerrel would be outvoted 3 to 2. This would help feel like less of a sudden change of heart from the quarians, and more like a long-term thing that you've laid the groundwork for, starting from the last few missions of Mass Effect 2. That's how I would have done it, anyway. *By the way, I really don't like the way that Legion's loyalty mission ends. Or, more accurately, the way that the game characterizes the choice. Namely that, based on the paragon/renegade points it allots, the game decides that reprogramming the heretics is good, while destroying them is bad. Why is it good to brainwash millions of people? Why is honoring their choice, but responding accordingly considered to be bad? Up to that point, Legion has spent all their time adding nuance to the player's perception of the geth, but then the game smacks us in the face with a black and white decision that contradicts much of what Legion has said up to that point. Personally, I think it would have been better to not assign morality points to the decision itself. Instead, let Shepard make the choice, and then later, back on the Normandy, Legion asks Shepard why they chose what they did. The response Shepard gives then determines whether they get paragon or renegade points. If Shepard destroyed the heretics because of hatred, that's renegade. If they chose to destroy them because they refuse to take away the heretics' free will, then that gives paragon points. If you chose reprogramming them to give them another chance or something, then you get paragon, but if you did it because they could be useful against the reapers, then that cold, calculated decision means you're a renegade.

The fix would be so easy, make it so you can choose when EDI tests the IFF.

I rewrote legion's acquisition from Tali's Loyalty mission. I got so sick of the contradictive evolution of Legion and the over abundance of companions with "daddy issues". I wanted to build legion up as a real savior of the Geth, a Geth Jesus if you will, while at the same time giving a proper redemption arch for Rael'Zorah instead of Tali having dead beat parents like everyone else. I had Xen find legion damaged and near dead. Legion asks her for help and given that Xen had never seen a Geth who could talk, let alone one that would ask for help, she smuggled him back to the fleet and delivered him to Rael. Rael would go about the typical work described in the original story until near abouts the end when he and Legion begin to work on the rewrite program for the heretic station together. Because Rael had essentially abandoned the other work, Xen directed his underlings on the Alari to continue the work which leads to the Geth breaking containment. Rael's final message to Tali is not just "If you are reading this I am dead, The Geth have gone active. Go here shut this down. k, thx bye" but instead that he made a discovery that might actually deliver their people back to Rannoch without war. Here Tali not only has to make the decision to delete the Alari databases but also whether to smuggle Legion off the ship or deny her father's last request and delete Legion. As for Legion himself, I wanted him to be the last of the Geth original source code (the last remaining clean backup) who seeks to redeem the Geth. Meaning ALL other Geth were turned by Sovereign's false promises of potential. So when Legion in ME3 is presented with the brain cell like depiction of the reaper code AI, he would turn it down because it is not Geth. Legion's actual sacrifice and reason for death is that he turns himself into a anti-virus quarantine drive for all reaper code, having every effected Geth program transfer to him for cleaning, then purges himself to ensure the reaper code is destroyed. When the Geth prime shows up after and Tali asks about Legion, the prime would respond "We are all Legion." (Very similar in vein to your own idea) This is a very very very condensed version, but it gives a general idea. I also rewrote the back story of the Geth-Quarian conflict a bit, with the war being in two parts instead of one. Quarians are successful in disabling the Geth, but some manage to escape with help of Quarian sympathizers. Sovereign discovers these Geth refugees and this is where the consensus fork happens. Those that agreed to join Sovereign would be cultivated over 50 or so years into a massive invasion force and those that refused would go on to become what we know as Legion. Sovereign would invade the Percious Veil along with his new Geth army and begin their genocide of the Quarians. The council would dunkirk style rush to evacuate the Quarians (with horrific results). This would better set up how and why the Quarians were so effectively devastated and why the Council races would harbor such hostility toward the Quarians.

I really like the idea of a rewritten Legion deciding to shut itself down to protect the rest of the Geth consensus from the Reaper code. It meshes nicely with a scene that comes back over and over throughout the trilogy, of people choosing to kill themselves rather than submit to mind control that would force them to kill others. Saren and the Illusive Man are obvious examples (if you pass the speech checks), but also Fai Dan on Feros killing himself to prevent the Thorian from using him to attack you, Rila killing herself in the monastery to avoid being turned into a Banshee, etc.

Legions writer changed between ME2 and ME3 which is why he was harping so much on a safe reaper code... Which is kind of sad because that could have all been in character as long as there was 1 line of legion saying:its war..desprate times call for desparate measures and i made sure repear code wont be a problem when we upload it.

The ending got me thinking if there could have been a GOOD way to write geth becoming more standardised AI. Maybe there's a division within the geth again; some want to remain as they were and strive for unity of all geth programs, whereas others also desire greater unity with organics (for either pure interest or for survival and cohesion with the rest of the galaxy reasons) and believe that converting units full of programs (Legion) into autonomous bodies will improve their capability to unite with organics. Legion themselves could be divided in the issue. Maybe both could be possible outcomes of peaceful resolutions to the greater conflict, with standard AI geth being easier to achieve peace with but offering less war assets due to their divided nature.

On the point of the Quarian causalities being so high, I think there could be a scenario where the Geth could be acting in self defense and still get an incredibly high kill count. If you only think of the Geth as just the mobile platforms then yes it would be pretty much impossible for them to get that many kills while still acting in self-defense, but the Geth are mostly in servers. So the mourning war could have consisted of everybody going and trying to press the kill switches on their Alexas to turn off what they saw is malfunctioning machinery, while the Geth viewed that as a direct attack on them. The Quarians could have been running around their houses unplugging everything they could frantically trying to turn off everything the Geth were connected to. It wouldn't necessarily look like a war or insurgency that we would recognize because one side was basically iCloud

God it does feel nice to have my own gripe about the Quarian Genocide isn't just me. Like, no I'm pretty damn sure you can't glass a Quarian daycare in self defense.

Legion is my ultimate favourite mass effect character, and your mass effect essay vids are my favourite. cant wait to watch this

Great work, I haven't seen this viewpoint explored before. This is your best video yet

Wow. That was fantastic. I didn't enjoy the way the handled them in ME3. Honestly, this helped to put a bow on that. Will be interesting to see how the handke the Geth in the next mass effect. If the teaser trailer can be believed. Thx again

About the n7 armor on Legion, I thought your action in mass effect 1 got the attention of the main Geth, not the heretics, and they sent Legion to find out infomation about you.

a insightful and well made video as always ,good you make ME content again ,keep up the good work

while i definitely think Rannoch could have been better, the changes to Legion didn't bother me as much. he's a POW when you get back to him, and it feels like there is a plausible chance that very fact - Legion expressed issues with the 'Control' aspect of the Reaper code - landed him in bondage. one of the big themes behind Mass Effect 3 is control versus self-determination, and the Geth (being a created species) are supposed to be a microcosm of that over-arcing idea... in _addition_ to the AI versus organics theme. was it perfectly written and thought out? could the Geth have gotten away from the Reapers? it's definitely up for debate. but i went with it in my fic because i loathe alternative: that the Protheans were right, and Ai and organics can't coexist. i think that's a false premise. i appreciate the argument, though :)

I cried one really big tear while hearing your suggestion for the resolution of this conflict.

This is fantastic, and nearly exactly the video essay I've been writing in my head for years but never had the wherewithal to create. Legion and the Geth as a whole are one of my favorite takes on AI/synthetic life in all of sci-fi, and it's a damn shame what the ME3 writers did to them. You articulated all your points very well, and have certainly earned this new subscriber.

If I am correct before the attack by the Quarians the Geth were beginning to finish a mega structure that would connect all Geth instantaneously so no Geth would be alone. Why not have that be the thing Legion fixes? Like the Geth fixed it or finished it and Legion was putting the final touches on it but needed to die for it. I thought that would be cool. Neat video by the way. Pretty cool.

Aww yeah, was hoping to hear your take on Legion, thanks for doing your thing

Ayyyy, missed you these last two months since the last Mass Effect video. Really looking forward to this, Pikmon.

Personally to me the reason for legion wanting to use the reaper code and changing its philosophy it because he interacted with shepard and the crew. It caused his code to evolve and when he returned to the geth mind and spread his data to them and the code is just tapping into the evolved code to control them.

As someone who first played the trilogy last year with the legendary edition. It has become one of my favorite series and i love your in depth videos on the series. Can’t wait for more

I freaking love this video. Great job and thank you!!!

Awesome video! Would absolutely love to see a video about the crew abduction in ME2 and how forced it is. Keep up the good work!

(Jesus just realized this comment was long my apologies lol) 22:20 I remember talking with someone about this very thing. And I get the initial reaction to it being viewed as a retcon to make the geth seem more innocent then they actually were but I just didnt see it that way. One: we are only shown 3 videos of the entire conflict. So u cant really take what we see as the while package. Two: The one curating our time in the consensus is Legion. A very biased party but one who doesnt just want to destroy his opposition. Legion lies to shepard about his intentions twice in the Rannoch arc but in a way that has no negative impact on the Quarians. Makes sense to me that he cherry picked this info to build sympathy among the Quarians when there was absolutely none, but we arent told that's what he did. However seeing as Legion doesnt want to destroy the Quarians and wants peace I believe it makes the most amount of sense. Even with all that being said I still think the 2 biggest points are that We only see 3 videos out of the entire conflict and those 3 videos are shown to us by Legion. Doesnt matter the intentions, you cant take the information shown at face value due to the complexity of the situation, the limited number of info shown, and the source the information is being given from. (Side tangent: Why would the Reaper code turn each geth into an individual? The reapers arent individuals themselves its stated in both 2 and 3 that each reaper is a compromised of billions of consciousness. Wouldnt the code just make the geth at all times connected with each other so that you wouldnt need something like a Dyson sphere? Idk it just doesnt make sense to me.) Just my view of it. Great video btw I've just recently got into mass effect trilogy and the Quarians/geth are my most favorite part about it. Hope we see what the peace looks like in the next game. Your solution at the end of the video makes alot of sense to me and would fix the problems. I would personally suggest rewriting the code into what I stated earlier. Both I feel like are better then what we got.

Great game my friend! Keep it up! Smashed that like! Happy Halloween🎃😃🍭🍫

You perfectly expressed so many of my problems with Mass Effect 3. Thank you

A shame to know about Legion's N7 armour. I thought there was something a bit more, maybe an appeal to Shephard's emotion or understanding him/her as a sort of symbol to gather around.

I don't think I'd say Mordin is pro genophage. Better to say that he is doubtful of the consequences of what had seemed a necessity at the time.

I like how he didn't even try to pronounce those two names,lol.

banger video as always man, good to see you again. i remember playing me2 as a kid and being so fascinated about legion not being able to give an answer as to why he stole a part of shepards armor to fix himself up. it was so mysterious and numerous theories came to my mind as to what made this happen. after watching your video and finally finding out why after maybe 10 years or so, was disappointing, to say the least lmao btw, can i send you an e-mail regarding your videos? got something to ask that might interest you

My headcanon is that the N7 armor and the shift toward valuing individuality are related. The Legion unit was a unique case of a physical Geth designed to operate in isolation while still retaining enough intelligence for sentience. It's said that when Geth units make contact with each other, they share all their data and form a consensus, but they operate independently when not in contact. So the Legion unit, during its mission to track down shepard, was in a unique position to develop an individual personality distinct from the rest of the consensus. This individuality would be largely shaped by its specific mission: finding Shepard. So it developed rudimentary emotion in the form of sentimentality about that mission, taking the N7 armor when Shepard turned up dead. Essentially to try to retain the purpose it had when it first developed individuality. Upon rejoining the consensus, these aspects of Legion's individuality were largely dismissed as unimportant anomalies of extended operation in isolation, without further analysis. Hence "no data" about why it has the N7 armor. But seeing the Geth consensus forcibly swayed one way and then another through hacking, Legion re-evaluates its own past experiences and concludes that individual intelligence apart from the consensus makes for a more robust civilization that isn't so easily corrupted, and which can better understand organics and relate to them. Hence its actions in ME3.

8:45 I just realised that Legion was Bioware developing an HK-47 for Mass Effect

The suggested fixes to the Geth storyline in this video are mad cool. Needing to delete reaper code, and said code being now integral to Legion and therefore requiring his voluntary shutdown are greatly acceptable and impactful outcomes. I wish we could have seen this.

Amazing content. Thank you very much!

Your videos never dissapoint, dang

13:51 There is a point where that could have changed in Mass Effect 3. See, Admiral Xen (wasted character, especially when I read what was cut) created a certain device, I forget the exact explaination, but before the Geth could react and fight back, billions, perhaps trillions of Geth (programs) were obliterated. This would have horrifically traumatized the survivors, a point Mass Effect 2 points out that could have happened if the Heretics rejoined their memories to the Geth. This moment could have changed their belief in their collective consciousness. Edit: oh yeah, now I remember a bit. They had loaded a quarter or a third (maybe half?) of the Geth programs into that megastructure, and the Quarians f*cking nuked it essentially. So yeah…. Probably pretty traumatized watching their ‘unity’ be utterly obliterated with no chance of defense.

Legion stole every second of my attention whenever he appeared lol, I think that was his thing sure he didn't appear much but it made you appreciate the moments when he did.

24:50 THIS is the exact reason why, I always hit the renegade option with him. He was told to fuck off and save the fleet, not attack and potentially kill not only one of his admirals, but also a spearhead figure fighting the Reapers... I'm pissed at this, so ofc. Shepard is gonna be super pissed about it too! And it's satisfying doing so.

You get a sub because you had Big Dan in the Video. I was positivly suprised thank you

Solid write up,firstly yes the Genophage narrative is more or less flawless, my only nitpick is that Urz should've made an appearance, like say when you fell in the pit and had to fight the Brutes if you had Urz loyalty, he would come in and kill one of them for you or something. My main issue with the Geth in ME3 is the narrative and direction felt a bit too anthropomorphized and that I really wanted to see that Dyson Sphere/Matryoshka Brain type superstructure, I was kinda annoyed that was offpanelled. EDI has a similar issue for me with her transferance to the Eva's body. Her dialogue about being unshackled in ME2 was pretty interesting and for them to go form that to just going to human like body made her much less interesting imo To pivot from a point you made in the video, a lot of ME3 really felt like it was made for someone who hasn't played the previous games because there was so much narrative hand holding for the audience in that sense.

I'm just gonna say from my perspective the Geth when they get the Reaper code, I always took it as the Geth achieved true unity over individuality. They became an complex as Legion, so they could all connect together as one unified intelligence. Now I just feel stupid that they all became the opposite of what I thought lmao.

Incredible analysis. Subbed!

Geth do not intentionally infiltrate is such a baller line it became iconic despite how hard it would be to get it.

One trilogy I'd love to see get rewritten as an intended trilogy by the original passionate writers. Of course, that's a dream.

That's what I was waiting for.

Brilliant video! Legion is my favourite character from the whole series and yeah, his end in ME3 does always feel as... idk. Brushed off. Second thought. Like the writers didn;t care. Your suggested fixes to that finale would be so much more meaningful 😭

Easy fix they could have done in legendary edition: Add a section in the engine room with the reaper IS, you must manually go to it and activate it in order to start the mission. This allows you to freely go recruit Legion with no problem

I actually really enjoyed this analysis and I think you were dead on. Legion's character in ME3 goes against a lot of what was already established. I do like your idea as well that instead of the Reaper Code, Legion wipes the code or integrates it into itself and then shuts itself down to prevent the Geth from attacking the Quarians. This would've resolved the issue completely and would still be consistent and as you said would've made Legion's sacrifice so much more meaningful. Take my subscription and thumbs up. I'm look forward to watching more of your content.

I think there's something that you missed. It is explicitly said in ME2 that Legion is unique among Geth. Other Geth house a few hundred processes at most and achieve some degree of sentience only when networked together with other geth to share low level processes and free up processing capacity for higher thought. They never quite achieve full sentience. Legion however houses well over 1000 processes and is fully sentient without being networked to other geth. And is the entire reason Legion has a personallity of their own (Legion was also shown to be oddly facinated with Sheppard going as far as using Sheppards armour to repair his battle damage. You can question him about this and it's quite a cute scene. But I digress). Legions desire to use the reaper code is a desire to give every Geth what Legion experiences. full sentience without needing to be networked. I don't see any contradiction with that. Legion just wants all Geth to have what Legion already has. What allowed legion to forge the bonds with Sheppard and Tali. It's not about "Wanting to be a real boy" but to elevate all geth to Legions level, or perhaps beyond. It is the full realisation of the Goal of transcendence. After the upgrade is done there's no evidence that the Geth are "Individuals" like legion was. They still act as one entity but they have transcended their previous limits.

Thank you for this, 100% agree. Tragic that we never got to see the Geth Dyson Sphere.

In summary: Geth in ME1-2: "Although having some understandable reasons for doing what they did due to the Quarians being the ones to shoot first, the Geth should be still held responsible for committing literal genocide on the Quarians" ME3: "WALL-E dindu nuffin' mang #AQAB"

hard agree. while the Rannoch portion of ME3 was satisfying emotionally in the moment, it logically took me out of the game considering what I knew from ME2 and I think more people would've been more attentive to this discrepancy if the ending wasn't as bad as it turned out to be. I know I cling to the perfection of the Tuchanka arc and the greatness of the Rannoch arc more because of my low opinion of the final 30 minutes.

I remember finishing the Genophage arc in 3 and wondered why everyone hates this game so much because I found it amazing. That was before I got to the Quarian vs Geth arc.

Absolutely beautiful analysis, thank you! Really enjoyed it.

What a masterpiece. Well done to you!

I wish we had gotten more natural time with Legion in Mass Effect 2.

I understand what you are saying and I love your ideas and never looked at Geth this way. Since we can't change the ME3 story, the best way to keep the "fully evolved AI" premise with the ME2 "Hive mined" is this. You can compare their hivemind to a tree. The reaper code doesn't separate the Geth from unison but rather thickens the core of the tree and extends the branches. The Geth still form a consensus but with the reaper code each geth in itself will be more self aware and eveloved. Thats the best I could think of it but I would rather keep the ME2 premise as in they their goal was to become as close to a unison as possible and form greater consensus as 1 combined brain.

I subscribed lol loving ur view points, I think u should do a video on Jack and her growth

The numbers could make sense if you stretch it and account for these three things: 1. As someone said the geth were responsible for huge amounts of infrastructure so that not working would cause casualties. 2. I have a theory that the morning wasn't a quarian/geth conflict but a civil war over the geth. Quarians killed each other and the winners rewrote history to ignore their own wrong doing. 3. The ships taking off only have room for so many passengers, leaving a certain number of the population behind without any support. (Possibly) If I was doing a rewrite I'd love if there were quarians living peacefully among the geth this whole time and they'd adopted isolationism to protect themselves and the geth. That could have been super interesting

Я читала что Легион изначально должен был помогать Лиаре спасти тело Шепард и этому бы посвящался начальный уровень, в котором нужно было играть за него. Но не знаю мифы это или ранние идеи. Но то что из Легиона хотели сделать яндере для Шепард, меня поразило. Даже не знаю кажется мне эта идея крутой или нет

I mean, I like how things played out. But you make some suuuuper valid points and I think a different version would have been better

Making Legion die in Mass Effect 3 and Geth die because of Destruction ending instead of only targeting Reapers was just so stupid.

Not sure if anyone mentioned it, but in the PC version (at least in the old version), you can use the save editor to 'recruit' Legion before the derelict Reaper mission. This way, you can always bring him to your missions. He has interesting lines in many missions that involve recruiting other squad members and their loyalties, and the best part is bringing him to the Tali's loyalty mission. I think initially, developers planned to make him recruit much earlier (or it's possible they did not plan on making the derelict reaper mission a point of no return). Edit - Just saw you have mentioned about save editor in the end Edit - Just saw the whole video, you basically mention this

Fantastic video, you talked about a lot of stuff I never really thought about before. Have you considered doing a video about Liara? Because I've always hated how they turned the shy, awkward and cute scientist from ME1 into yet another cynical, jaded asshole like the rest of the crew in ME2. And that she also deals in brokering information, something she never had anything to do with originally. Which seems like a really bizarre way to take the character, especially since she was already extremely useful being the Prothean expert that helped us decipher the meaning of the visions from the beacons. For an asari that can live a thousand years, they sure made her grow up real damn quick in two short years

I still like the hole and the armor.

Irregardless of everything else, that punchline at the end was hysterical and I now would really love to see your view on Dragon Age moments as well as the Mass Effect content. While I'm not sure how throughly I agree with all of your points here, I did feel that compared to the genophage the quarian/geth plot line was... less, and you brought up a lot of solid reasons why that might be. This video has had a lot of interesting food for thought.

Jacob flying across the screen in the intro has made my day 🤣🤣🤣

Playing the ending song is cheating

As far as the question, does this unit have a soul, remember that Legion was a individual construct amongst many. He was designed to operate autonomously.

Genophage Arc will always be my favourite part of the game "Would've liked to run tests on Sea Shells"

Love your content.