Kai Leng, The Most Obnoxious Tryhard In The Galaxy (Mass Effect) 

Ignore 14:51-14:57 Troy Baker actually sucks :( Here's 15:11 for catharsis

I've seen the problem summed up succinctly as "You're not fighting Kai Leng. You're fighting the writers.".

Kai Leng in cutscene: badass and edgy Kai Leng in gameplay: weak and a crybaby

Kai Leng is the most edgiest character i have ever seen. When i was 13, i used to write an Assassin's Creed fanfiction, and even my edgy Marty Stew russian assassin from XVII century was somehow less edgy then him. Hell, even Shadow from Sonic is less edgy.

For me I think it would be cool if he was connected to Shepard in a backstory way like if you chose Sole survivor:Kai leng was a Cerberus spy from the start and he was in your squad they led you all in a trap.that’s why when you would see him in mass effect 3 Shepard would have a reason to hate him (more) and why leng thinks he’s better than you knowing that he killed a entire squad without the alliance or you knowing. Ruthless:on ruthless they especially say Shepard was heartless person sending people to die without a care about others what if Kai leng was a soldier under Shepard’s command and on the last battle of the Batarian colony Kai leng felt hatred over Shepard for making him feel expendable so when the fight was over Kai would join Cerberus to get revenge over Shepard which would make him have a actual reason to hate Shepard (also if you’re going for a paragon route but you chose ruthless you can have options on saying sorry to him or make him know that you’re not that type of person anymore which in my opinion would give greater story telling to ruthless having the options of forgiveness and have the player feel like there are more choices then going complete renegade options. War hero:Shepard and Kai would both be defending the colony from batarians when the battle was over only Shepard would get the credit and Kai not being mentioned would give him a jealous outlook over Shepard making him join Cerberus to get back at Shepard making them feel like equals because of only two of them protecting the colony give a feeling that there both equally skilled. Ps:hi I know this is really long post for that I’m sorry but if you do read this I thank you.

I feel like most of the problems with Kai Lang also apply to Cerberus in ME3; cartoonishly evil, super OP for no reason, and overall boring and undercooked. Cerberus in general should have taken a backseat in ME3, with maybe one chapter focusing on them (kinda like the geth). The whole point of Cerberus is that they were this super secret rogue black ops organization that people knew nothing about, who worked in the shadows. Then they just became a generic evil empire who somehow rival all other council races. What happened to them kinda reminds me of what Bethesda did to the Brotherhood of Steel, turning them from weird, xenophobic technohorders to a major military force throughout the series. Maybe Kai Lang would’ve been better as a sneaky assassin character or something rather than a generic soldier with a sword (you’re gonna assassinate a major politician by walking up to his face? Really?), going in line with old Cerberus ideals, but even then, Cerberus overall just can’t be saved. Still, respect to Bioware though, I think they did the best they could with the small amount of time they were given for this game. Edit: It makes sense that Cerberus was in the game; video games need a wide variety of enemies to fight to be interesting, and only fighting reaper forces would be repetitive after a while. I just wish the main humanoid faction was more fleshed out. Like I said before, Bioware did the best they could and the game overall is still amazing story-wise (aside from the original endings).

I hadnt thought of the Jacob headcanon and now im tossing it around in my mind. Jacob is a biotic, and his power was Barrier, so it makes sense to have a reaper-augmented barrier become an everything-proof-shield. His noted problem with Thane becomes personal, as does his betrayal. It might seem like he was brainwashed but it gets revealed that he got augmented willingly. When Miranda left Cerberus, Jacob didnt. That makes the final line about avenging Thane feel even more personal, since Thane was intensely loyal to you to the bitter end, and Jacob is willing to throw everything away.

I felt he was such a random addition. He just leapt onto my shuttle and I was like "who the hell is this dude?" I thought there'd be some reveal about him being connected to the past of one of the squadmates. But nope, he was just a random assassin hired by Cerberus. Ended up hating him, especially those damn rechargeable shields of his! I was playing as mostly paragon but I took great pleasure in renegade killing this dude.

Clone Shepard is actually a better Kai Leng than Kai Leng is. It is a better rival, better villain, a better foil, and the battle actually makes sense and is more fun to play (Clone Shepard uses Shepard's skills, and even use Medigel to revive Brooks if she is down). I know Clone Shepard is designed to the campy Citadel DLC, but honestly, I take Clone Shepard more seriously as a threat than Kai Leng.

From a writing, inner-conflict perspective, I would've made Kai Leng and the Illusive Man a mirror to how fans like to headcanon Shepard and Anderson. Not a parent-child dynamic, but definitely a parental-like figure. Maybe Kai Leng was taken under the Illusive Man's wing after he was kicked out of the military for being too violent. The Illusive Man would recruit him, shower him with praise, and tell him he's "The best humanity has to offer." IM builds up his ego for YEARS. Then Shepard comes along. And suddenly the IM has a new prized pony. Leng becomes just another foot soldier in Cerberus who doesn't even get the decency of having the IM give him missions directly anymore because he's so preoccupied with Shepard and the Collectors. Eventually, he gets so jealous of Shepard that he leaves Cerberus and becomes a rouge agent (mirroring how Shepard had to leave the Alliance to work for Cerberus.) They could've had him be a whole DLC in ME2 in which the IM sends Shepard after him after he stole Cerberus tech. The player would've mostly been in the dark about why Leng left, but they will find out that he used to be the IM's right hand and personal attack dog. Shepard thinks they've killed him by the end of the DLC (or they could actually kill him via a Renegade option) but Cerberus brings him back and gives him his super cybernetics that he has in ME3. By the time Lag wakes up, Shepard has told the IM to piss off and returned to the Alliance. The IM treats Kai Leng's betrayal like nothing more than a teenage rebellious phase. Leng is eager to prove himself now that Shepard's gone. However, The IM keeps speaking well of Shepard, saying that their determination is admiration, that *Shepard* is a great soldier that humanity should look up to, even if their idealism blinds them, etc. It starts to drive Leng crazy that even after betraying him, the IM still speaks highly of Shepard, meanwhile, he can't even get a "Good job on that mission" nowadays. That way his jealousy for Shepard doesn't just feel like it came out of nowhere. I would drastically change the scene on Thessia too. I didn't have a problem with Kai Leng before that point but seeing the writers make Shepard's team fumble around like little kids in a moving bouncy house made me dislike him on pure principle alone. Plus, having the IM play favorites would add a little depth to him beyond 'control the reapers.' It just emphasis how much he's pushed aside for his cause. I don't think Mass Effect would ever be adapted for tv or film but if it ever is, that might be Bioware's only chance to 'fix' Kai Leng lol. Unless we get some big fat remake sometime in the future.

Thane mocking Kai Leng for being able to prevent him from killing the counselor is pretty rich seeing as he, a guy with a gun (an exceptionally skilled guy with a gun) was defeated by a guy with a sword.

Waited the entire video and I was not let down with the empty cereal box THANK YOU

Ive always thought Jacob shouldve taken Kai Lengs role if the writers were just going to make us hate him anyways they might as well have gone all in and made him a cerberus loyalists

"Space Nightwing in a skirt" is how I often describe him. There's so much that could be said about Kai Leng, this video did it better than I could, but one there is at least one thing not mentioned. Something that bothers about the ME series is the transition from RPG-shooter in ME1 to shooter with RPG elements in ME3. In ME1, tech characters had a power, "Damping," which disabled tech/biotic powers on a targeted enemy. On the hovercar chase on the Citadel, I immediately thought it was nonsense that Garrus/Tali (always with me) couldn't use this and disable Kai Leng's everything proof shield. One could say that it might affect the car as well, but we already crash-land in that scene, so what does it matter? Also, I always have Liara and Samara/Javik in the squad on Thessia, who should easily be able to counter Kai Leng's biotic augmentations. In short, Shepard and squad should once again be able to effortlessly wipe the floor with Kai Leng as he is written, and I will never forgive BioWare for the second half of ME3.

Everyone explaining why it wouldn't work to have Kai Leng revealed to actually be either Kaiden/Ashley now warped by Cerberus finding and modifying their body, turning them into a brainwashed agent of Cerberus. Because Kaiden/Ashley would have been vaporized by the nuke on Virmire. Meanwhile Shepard gets point blanked by the Normandy SR1's explosion, has 90% of his/her body destroyed and yet Cerberus still manages to resurrect Shepard.

Honestly, Kai Leng was the character Mass Effect 3 did most dirty! While he was done bad in the "Deception" novel, the author had no connection to the franchise and of course most fans have disregarded it--though let's face it, Bioware will never come out with any rewrites! Drew Karpyshyn did a heck of a job with KL in "Retribution" and the fact that Mac Walters did just as bad a hack job as "Deception" just goes to show both how overrated Mac is and how much ME3 really suffered without Drew's involvement!

That whole sequence at the Temple on Thessia is painful. Just one of the worst cases of where the writers just needed to have something happen but couldn’t actually write it in an intelligent way. Agree that Jacob would have been a much better choice to fill that slot. Where he does meet Brynn after ME2 but as they plot their escape from Cerberus he is actually captured and then combo mind controlled and slightly huskified. Or have a nice tie in to his Dad where Cerberus went back to that planet and had developed a mind control derivative out of the food that had been robbing the crash survivors of their cognitive abilities. So if he had never gone to get closure with his Dad they never would have had the ingredients to also take his life later.

I _think_ that in the Shepard/Leng "banter" during the last fight on Cronos, it's mentioned that KL is, in fact, reaper tech enhanced. Apart from that, he _is_ a destestable little vorcha poo, but, unlike other characters we hate because they are written to be hated (which makes them well-written), we hate him because he's written as a weird anime/ninja/edgy hybrid who sorta clashes with the general settings (ie. the sword). And also because Shep seems to lose half their neurones in his presence, the worst being during the car pursuit when all Shep has to do is drive one meter up, and that bridge does all the work for them. They could even have him survive the crash and fall for plot purpose, but that would have been some good moment : giving a cartoonish character a cartoonish "death". My theory is that Leng is simply jealous of the attention and respect Shep (and to a lesser extent Miranda) gets from the Illusive Man, and that _this_ is his motivation. I also headcanon that, on Cronos, TIM sends him against Shepard with, this time, little reinforcement, because he's betting on Shep to win and get him rid of this annoying lackey. The only positive point is that final brutal Leng killing which is so incredibly SATISFYING.

I actually liked him for a number of reasons. First of all, he's a reality check for Shepard and his cocky crew that started believing they were the chosen ones. If it hadn't been for Lang, every mission would've been perfectly executed and the plot armor would've been stronger than usual. With him as an antagonist, Shepard actually had to rethink his strategy. Second, him killing Krios was an eye opener to his skill and tenacity. He was gunning after Shepard's crew and the Illusive Man saw him as an upgraded replacement for Shepard in his crusade against the Reapers and the rest of the galaxy. Third, how he disposed of the Thessian High Command was absolutely cold and I loved it. Those narcissistic, condescending, blue parasites always had it easy and thought themselves to be the center of the galaxy. They withheld the knowledge they'd been given by the Protheans from other species in order to rule supreme. So when Lang showed up, he butchered them and stole their secrets, proving that they really were nothing special, especially their overhyped biotic commandos. This is a guy who struck from the shadows and fought dirty, not hesitating to go all the way. He was a good villain.

Kai Leng is basically The Winter Soldier, minus all the interesting things that character also being Bucky Barnes brings to the table. Which is too bad, because that angle could've been interesting as hell to explore, given how TIM is clearly not above putting chips in people's heads and brainwashing his soldiers with Reaper tech. If they'd made him less of a smug tryhard and more of an Agent 33/Saren, we could've had something decent going with him. But no, we needed a literal edgelord, who even Paragon-only players like me make an exception and hit the Renegade stabby prompt for.

Kai Leng only serves one purpose. To show the player what Shepard could have become if he would be still with Cerberus. A mindless obeying gonk.

his sword is ridiculous but shattering it is like top 5 interrupts

7:43 About sword: James: "I just gotta say... swords? Seriously?" EDI: "Training with edged weapons efficiently desensitizes human soldiers to the act of killing." James: "Yeah, a Reaper in your brain does it, too. What do these guys want, extra credit?" Shepard: "Let's focus, people."

I'm a little late to this but... first off he looks like a reject from a goth boy boand. I remember first reading that email and laughing out loud at it. How 3rd grade! In support of him having reaper tech, the VI on Thessia says when he shows up 'reaper indoctrination detected' Having to get in close to get past the shield does make some things make more sense. As for Shepard being coming an idoit around him, I can't believe the same Shepard that told them to make sure Saren was dead after he's defeated or kills himself turns their back on a guy who multiple people told them was hard to kill. Really he's unnecessary as replacing him with a random phantom and taking out all his dialogue works much better and is an improvement both story and gameplay wise. I'd replace him with the virmire survivor. Cerberus recovers the body, maybe they had spies at the cloning facility but regardless they are the first experimental run of the lazerous project. Hard to believe that could revive Shepard without some other experiments on someone. Would also explain the illusive man's insistence that Shepard not get a control chip as perhaps they tried that on them and it changed them. Then you have this mystery person who seems to know Shepard well, stalking them only to find out its the VS, who maybe never really forgave them for leaving them behind and blames them for what they are now, a tool for Cerberus. I know a bit winter solider but I think it'd be an improvement.

Why they could not instead use a 2-meters, silent juggernaut with powerful armor and weapons, who would turn out to be a zombified Jenkins - an young and joyful marine who was part of Shepard's squad and who dies at the beginning of Mass Effect? This would be far more personal and tragic for the Commander and even more depraved for Cerberus. Especially after learning a truth about Jenkins, the final showdown with him would be truly heartbreaking, a final prove that in no matter what conflict, those most innocent are its greatest victims. He would be indeed a Darth Vader of Mass Effect Trilogy.

Every time you see him it’s just like Oh, it’s you. Are you done bullying the non-combatants? Great, guess you better start running away now.

His design is a little weird and you have good points about it but honestly, I love his design, I'll gladly admit I'm a sucker for edgy character designs Personality wise: he's so bland

I believe Kai Leng using a sword could have worked if he was more competent. In Breaking Bad, there are two cartel assassins who are tasked to kill a DEA agent. They overwhelm him in a parking lot and have him at gunpoint. But instead of just pulling the trigger, one of them says "too easy" and walks away to get an axe. This scene works. In ME2, in one of the later conversations with Thane, he says pride is what sets the professional apart from amateurs. An amateur is just happy if he gets the job done but a professional wants to prove his skill and challenge himself. If someone uses a sword in a world full of sci-fi guns, it could mean "I am so much better than everyone else that I have to use a sword to challenge myself". But Kai Leng fails every time we meet him. And Kai Leng doesn't limit himself to his sword because he brings a gunship to a gunfight. He basically admits that we wouldn't have a chance if it was just him with his sword.

Kai Leng should have been a joke villain in DLC citadel. A cringe lord ninja who would try to sabotage the party , do some crazy pointless acrobat tricks and get shot in the end. In this case, his character would do nicely.

How I would have changed Kai Leng involves MASSIVE changes to Mass Effect 2 and 3. (Turns out a cohesives story though out A to Z is better than coming up with shit off the fly. Who knew...) Mass Effect 2. Shepherd doesn't die. The Reapers, don't just have 1 reaper in the galaxy, they have several small destroyers in system as well. They awaken when Sovereign is destroyed. Seeing that they can't fight the galaxy on their own, they begin working with other races. The Geth primarily, but also other races. The geth, now having new upgrades develop the ability to detect the Normandy. So they attack it. Shephard is not killed in the attack, but the Virmire Survivor goes missing and is believed dead. And Shepherd is severely injured. 2 years later, Shepherd is healed, and gets back into the fight. They find that the Virmire Survivor survived, because Cerberus saved them. They "Left" Cerberus and rejoin you as you go about fighting the Geth. The Geth, are doing largely what the collectors are doing. Attempting to Grow a new Reaper. (Note. Legion is still a character. Most the Geth, after the events of the first game fear the reapers and want to stop them) So, Mass Effect 2 ending comes up, and the Virmire Survivor, who was under the secret influence of Cerberus, tries to stop you, and the ending conflict is between you and them. Mass Effect 3. They take the place of Kai Leng.

I remember when I killed him in 3 for the first time, he did a backflip and mid flip, I headshot it with a sniper and his body exploded into 100 chunks. Then he’s still alive in the cutscene lmao.

He looks like he came straight out of one of the Shumacher Batman movies. He couldn't have looked any cheesier if they put -Bat- Cerb Nipples on his armor

Bit late to a party, just recently finished my entire ME Legendary run. Ever since ME3 DLC Citadel I feel that Mass Effect (especially ME3) was not afraid of bullshit (with Kai Leng and Blasto at the top) What I would do is another bullshit thing and bring back SAREN, now fully controlled by Cerberus as they use Reaper tech (collector base helped). Because Cerberus is unreasonably influential and powerful they recover Saren body with ease and brought him back to unlife. He is controlled by Cerberus tech support but sometimes his personality resurfaces and depending on ME1 ending he either hates Shepard or gets conscious about choice he made. There would be three boss battles (Citadel / Thessia / Cerberus) and last one would be skipped with ME1 suicide and high interrupt. He would be absent on Horizon and instead a Cerberus clean squad would be there (maybe with Jacob as he returned to Cerberus If you didn't romanced him or maybe wasn't nice to him, have a chance to kill him). This sounds quite betterer than Kai Lang :P

maybe make him the antithesis of Shepard? Introduce him from the first game, maybe have him a rival specter candidate? Give him both a gun AND sword, I know a sword can work, but making a sword a 'super does everything' sword ruins it. Make it a biotic conduit! THAT COULD WORK! then as the story goes you find when Shepard becomes a specter instead of him. He grows a hatred of you, in the second game he tries to sabatoge you in your efforts against the collectors. then in the third, joins Cerberus.

Speaking for myself, I hate him because he killed Thane. . .and he thought it was something to brag about.

Kind of would have been awesome if they tied Kai Lang to Harbinger through the reaper Tech implants that Cerberus got. Having you dual this new rival to Shepherd, well the same time a duel against what has been almost a series long greater villain.

What would've made Kai Leng better is if they showed him as the "anti-Shepard" that he is in the books, in the game as well. Show him as properly competent and skilled, not just in cutscenes, but in the times you fight him, too. Kai Leng completed the N7 training, just like Shepard. N7 is brutal. His skillset should be like Shepard's, but not necessarily exact. Keep the idea of tech giving him an edge, just as Shepard's experiences give him/her an edge. Change the Chronos Station fight to a one-on-one between Shepard and Kai Leng, where Kai Leng doesn't have a watered-down Phantom's ability set (he lacks their one-hit kill ability in the game). Make it like the fight with Mr. Freeze in Arkham City, perhaps? You need to use multiple methods to take him down and he learns and doesn't fall for the same tactic more than once. Make him a proper threat.

An alternative way to improve his character would be to just make him shut up. There is a mod for Mass Effect 3 called, "Reworked Kai Leng", and what it does is that it essentially mutes the character. He no longer speaks and he doesn't send that cringy email after the fight on Thessia. The mod also makes other adjustments. It buffs him during fights by giving him more shields, and making him impossible to ragdoll. It adds additional Cerberus soldiers to his fight on Thessia, so the odds seem more stacked against you. The mod changes his design by giving him a helmet, completely concealing his face. By making him a silent and faceless character who is all action and no talk, the vibe you get from him is that of a barely human killing machine, rather than a whiny edgelord weaboo with a grudge on Shepard. It's more befitting of what is supposed to be a super soldier made from Reaper tech.

This happens _every_ time a freaking "side content" Bioware character is added into the next game. Kai Leng, Cole, Jacob (comics). Oh, and watch for all the comic/novel side characters coming in DA4 /sigh including the baby gryphon. They want you to buy the added content. Don't. And then all the "cool anime guy moments" in a non-anime game. My gods. They even used a VA who was, at the time, most well-known for Naruto and FF XIII-2. Agree on the Jacob/Leng mashup. That would have been genuinely brilliant. I mean, unlike, say Iron Bull, we already hate Jacob so if we retrospectively hate him more, no biggie. But your alternative, also great. But also: _WHY THE EFF is killing Kai Leng at the end a renegade option?????_ FFS, Bioware.

Mass effect 3 is one of the first times I encountered a villain (in this case Kai Leng) where I had a boss fight with him got him down to half health and then a cutscene played and I got trapped underneath some rubble like wtf I was winning.

There is a mod that fix the whole problem. The teammate you are forced to sacrifice in the first game return as the new Kai Leng. Even new voicelines and everything. Makes the final fight very personal.

I understand the sword thing in Mass Effect. But the whole can't compete with a gun....I mean it's fiction and in some fiction characters would have super human reflects or said sword is so strong that can cut through steel. So it isn't a big deal in that regard, but I get how out of place it being in the ME Universe.

8:50 Ok, so to play Kai Leng’s advocate for a moment, this *is* shep we’re talking about. Assuming you play a tech specialist class, likely the bare minimum in physical power here due to the reliance on tech vs physical prowess, it’s STILL implied that you’re one of the physically strongest humans out there. I will use the glorious krogan headbutt as evidence for this because when you do headbutt the bastard, he shuts up and stumbles back. That’s just with your *head*, something that humans didn’t really evolve to use when smacking things. I think it stands to reason that given you can literally go head to head with a krogan, you could probably shatter a sword with relative ease under the right conditions

The thing about Kai Leng that annoys me is that he comes from out of no where just to try and make an enemy be on par with Sheppard even though Sheppard's clone already did a better job. My way of fixing him is that he should of been a squad mate in ME 2 that decides to stay loyal to the Illusive Man.

How would I fix KL? I'd swap him with Raiden. No biotics, just beat the crap of your entire squad. Last fight he faces Shephard and his high frequency blade bounces of Shep... KL: Wha...? Shephard: Nanomachines son!

I kinda love how incompetent he becomes if thane is alive. He goes from, "I just assassinated one of the most important people" to "I failed because a terminally ill dude showed up".

Am I the only one who thinks Kai Leng's role would have been played 1000x better by the Shepard Clone? Like imagine if the Illusive Man had kept the clone for spare parts for the real Sheppard and when Sheppard broke from Cerberus (and stole their best ship and all their top operatives) he just outfitted Clone Sheppard with a control chip and started sending him on his own missions as a counter operative.

Imaging him typing up his little death threat to Shepard

There's actually a mod that swaps Kai Leng with some Cerberus soldier (the one with the swords) and cuts all of his dialogue and I think that even something as simple as that is better than what they did with him.

To be fair, an injured Bailey is worth 10 Kai Leng, so he was right to get out

Shamus Young has a really good breakdown of why Kai Leng doesn't work. Basically, he's that one asshole who when told that the D&D campaign will be about a grounded realistic world with rare magic and a more deliberate medieval motif, wants to play his half dragon-half-demon-half-elf gun-warlock named Azurel Bloodleaf.

Kai Leng is basically already a fanfic character, so it's hard to make him even worse.

It’s strange how no one brings up the fact that the normal phantoms are more threatening than Kai leng from both a gameplay and visual standpoint. You know why? BECAUSE THEY USE GUNS ALONG WITH THEIR SWORD. Phantoms have deadly precise aiming and their main goal in a combat situation is to close the gap through mechanically augmented gymnastics to elude bullets and by pressuring Shepard with a retaliation of their own bullets to force them into an arguably much deadlier situation of a melee encounter with an agile sword specialist.

Illusive Man: “Do it because I told you to” Kai Leng: “BECAUSE YOU TOLD ME TO!”

He is supposed to be a replacement for Shepard, and is great at portraying just how much the Illusive Man misses the point of what makes Shepard great.

At least Sarens Virmire confrontation felt like an equal standoff, he escapes and you lose a squadmember but you still managed to complete your goal and at least you get some insights on the antagonist and the agency to choose who to save

I think you’re all forgetting a very important factor about Kai Leng and one that actually makes him the best character in the entire franchise. . . . . Good. You opened this message. This isn’t actually asari military command. They’re busy tending to what’s left of their planet. So you survived our fight on Thessia. You’re not as weak as I thought. But never forget that your best wasn’t good enough to stop me. Now an entire planet is dying because you lacked the strength to win. The legend of Shepard needs to be re-written. I hope I’m there for the last chapter. It ends with your death. -KL

Personally I just hate the forced losses and how everyone acknowledges that you "lost" but of all the times I've played Mass effect which is a lot this guy has never once done a single point of damage to me no matter the difficulty. Either I stun lock him to death or I head shot him with the black widow. If he were truly actually impossible to beat and just was too fast and hit too hard that would be one thing. But when every fight with him is the equivalence of older brother holding back some brat with one hand it's irritating to be consoled by everyone on the ship when you "lose".

Totally agree with the whole combining him and Jacob thing. If the devs wanted to have a doomed relationship, that would be much more interesting than Jacob being a cheater. They actually do something similar in one of the dragon age games, but I won’t say more cause spoilers. Also, it would make him fighting Thane more impactful, if they actually went with their issues being a fight in 2. Thane being a problematic father and Jacob having daddy issues, plus the irony of Jacob not trusting Thane around Shephard, only for Thane to protect Shephard from Jacob. Hell, even the dorky ass edgelord stuff would make some more sense with Jacob. Cause Jacob is a fucking dork who says dumb stuff already. Make him more corrupted and evil, and you could buy him being like Kai Lang.

I've never thought of making Kai Leng a squadmate for ME2, but it makes a lot of sense. Especially since it would make an interesting dichotomy with Miranda. The Illusive Man putting both of his top lieutenants on the Normandy SR-2, with one remaining loyal to TIM while Shepard earns the loyalty of the other. Plus, no Jacob is always a good idea!

"What's his motivation for trying to kill the councilor?" TIM offered him a bowl of frosted mini-wheats. "Why does he steal the Prothean VI? " TIM offered him a bowl of Cocoa Puffs. "Why does he desperately want to kill Shepard?" He thinks Shepard's hiding a stash of Fruity Pebbles. My personal joke is that virtually everything he does and all of his motivations revolve around his love for cereal.

Hell, his sword could have worked if he had something like an EMP device that can temporarely shut down your weapons and omni-tool making it necesarry to fight him in melee

Okay but I'm absolutely LIVING for the fact that Thane, a man who spent a good chunk of his life living by the idea that he should not hold grudges or be petty and all that, on his DEATHBED, took a hot second to drag Kao Leng. And I love and agree with all the points with the video, but I do like that we got a plot punching bag. Yeah he sucks in every way but the hate for this man has brought all of us together and if there one singular thing everyone in the galaxy can agree on, it's that this guy sucks and everyone hates him

My favorite part is that Anderson's "alarming" back story is basically "Yeah he was a pain in the @$$ but we shot him, so he ran away. But now he's back, so he might be stronger or something."

The greatest indictment of Kai Leng as an antagonist: I decided on a whim to beat him to death with my bare hands on Thessia. I was playing an Adept. He lost horribly.

Jack: "Hey, Cheerleader. My hair and I have been fighting Brutes and Marauders on the front lines of this war. Meanwhile, you got your big bubbly butt kicked by some guy with a sword." When even the non-playable members can make fun of an antagonist, you know you fucked up in development.

For what it's worth Kai is a good anti-example for teaching story tellers how not to do their villains. Helps me with letting go of my darlings when running RPGs. Before I pull out plot armor for my big evil it helps to ask myself: "Am I creating another Kai Leng here?"

7:24 I tried this today and the most annoying thing is that he STILL trash talks Shepard while being ragdolled across the room! Also I somehow froze him in midair at some point.

Kai Leng just feels like he was added last-minute, and the team had to quickly incorporate him into the story somehow

His plot armor is so thick it's immersion breaking. Every time he appears I don't feel like the bad-ass Commander Shepard I feel like a B list actor on set in a shitty 2 dollar action film. My headcannon is that his reaper indoctrination tech makes everyone around him act stupid, including himself.

Another issue is it felt like the writers expected us to automatically accept Kai Leng as a "Asian martial artist badass" stereotype when, since we've seen plenty of Asian martial artist badasses before, it means that Kai Leng would have had to somehow been unique and interesting to stand out. Also, the fact that he chose to use an archaic weapon should have *scared* us. It should have meant that he was so skilled and confident in the use of a regular sword against high tech, making him one of the most skilled fighters in the galaxy, but it never once felt that way.

Here's how you fix Kai Leng. Replace him in his entirety with the Shephard clone from the Citadel DLC. Instead of two fights do three, adding a short one in the room where he kills Thane. In this fight you find out that he uses powers from whatever class your shepherd is. He can trash talk various choices you made in the previous games (letting Kaiden/Ashley die for example) as if he knows you very intimately. Have him having your same powers coupled with having advanced reaper tech like mentioned in the video make in a legitimately over powering threat. Unmask him at Thessia when you put up a better fight, or maybe do it right before the final battle with him.

Oh wow.... The idea of combining Kai with Jacob is such a fantastic idea. What a gut wrencher I could have been to have a former squadmate and friend turn against you in fantastic fashion.

I would add that the game handles the whole "assassin" and "stealth" in a dumb way. Like, dude has silent sword, he has cloak device, just sneak up on people, slit their throats and haul ass but noooo we need edgy, no-brain straight-up fight because reasons. Could´ve been a better fight if you had to move in a arena-type section with narrow corridors, doorways and the like, having to stay alert and react quickly when he jumps from the shadows to strike at you, then retaliate before he disappears again. But that´s just how I´d like it.

There' a moment in the Phantom Menace in which Obi-wan is cut off from helping his master defeat Maul by a force field. He has to watch the battle helplessly, unable to participate. I would have liked to have seen more of that with Shepard's squad mates. He establishes himself as skilled by kicking around the people you care about and fight beside. Perhaps have Ash/Kaiden get injured by him at the start of the game (thus establishing him as a threat earlier). Ultimately, I think it is more interesting to have an adversary know when he is outmatched and retreat as needed. He should have won by isolating targets and taking them one at a time.

I feel like they should’ve replaced Kai leng with whoever you didn’t save in the first game. Either Ashley or Kaiden. Just make them masked and a mystery for the most part of the game.

Kei Lang should have been the antagonist on Priority: Mars that beats the crap out of Kaiden / Ashley to make Shepard be immediately out for his blood. Of course then they would have had to come up with another scenario for EDI to get her robot body, but there's a few easy ways for that to occur with all the Cerberus bases you hit during the course of ME:3.

Honestly, I think Kai Leng should’ve switched places with the clone as a final boss. Cause at least the clone gave a more worthy challenge than the embarrassment that was Kai Leng.

A way to improve Kai Leng could be to make them a character we (Shepard) have failed in the past with our actions. Maybe swapping him out with the Virmire sacrifice (Ashley/Kaiden) or even Jenkins. Have it so after their brush with death, Cerberus either saved them or experimented on them with Reaper tech to create their own soldier, which could be tied back into the development of Lazarus & the Cerberus husks, along with giving them more history with Shepard.

Kai Leng looks like he’s Jetstream Sam wearing Raiden’s armour, but with the personality of Infinite from Sonic Forces

Honestly I think one of the biggest issues with Kai Leng is that he really isn't developed at all. If Bioware spent more time building the adversarial relationship with Leng, establishing who he is and why we should hate him, I think he would be remembered far more fondly. The problem is, the shitty little mall ninja pops up out of nowhere, shows up at a peak emotional moments without us having any real connection to him. Because there's no development it feels like Bioware is saying "here's your dark reflection, fear him" without it being deserved, and he's just obnoxious.

Kai Leng is actually Hannah Shepard, and she's VERY disappointed that you haven't tried to call her more often!

6:15 This is the ONE true reason why Liara is showhorned into the Thessia mission, despite her never displaying any real emotional connection to the planet before; Kai Leng needed someone light enough to throw.

You definitely hit the nail on the head with the game trying to make him out as a fearsome boogie man while also making him so laughably incompetent. How are you supposed to take him seriously as a threat when a drell with a crippling lung disorder beats him in hand to hand combat without breaking a sweat?

I know for a FACT my Shepherd was packing more than enough firepower, excluding actual powers, to annihilate whatever biotic field Kai Lang could ever hope to hold up, so I have no idea why the game makes it to where your guns are suddenly pea shooters.

I still grin every time reading that part in a particular fanfic, where Shepard takes out Leng early, during the Citadel coup when, during the skycar scene, Shepard simply pulls up, crashing the car against the underside of a bridge, crushing him. Made even better by her later comment to Bailey that he can "scrape him off his wanted list", mentally adding "and off the High Lake Plaza Bridge" xD

In defense of Kai Leng using a sword. In Mass Effect 1 lore at least, but I am fairly certain this applies to the whole trilogy. Kinetic barriers cannot deflect objects that move relatively slowly, or rather, they don't so you can sit down and walk normally without the mass effect field constantly being under stress around you. Similar to the Dune a lore, by neccessity a blade can penetrate a shield that a fast moving projectile can't.

Kei leng killed Aria’s hidden daughter in the books and for some reason they don’t mention that in game at all! Imagine if in the Omega DLC that’s brought up and is the reason why Aria wants Cerberus dead so badly. Honestly just make him succeed without some plot armor bullshit or see some behind the scenes of him planning

It would have been so cool if Kai leng was a squadmate in Mass Effect 2. Where if you chose to destroy the Collector base he would abandon your squad for example.

As someone who has read the books, I can tell you that they don't help with his character at all. It's just more of him being the same way that he is in the game; with the only details being he has a girlfriend in the comics he keeps blaming for his failures, and he enjoys killing/boasting when his victims are helpless

An interesting idea for his "everything proof shield" make the reason he uses a physical sword mean something. Like it is so advanced that he can't attack you with ranged stuff while it is active thus he keeps the sword to cover that weakness when he uses it. They could even use something like Thane using a physical knife in the fight where he dies to give you an answer to that shield and have either an Omniblade upgrade to deal with that or even using said knife yourself to kill Kai Leng. Would add to the "that was for thane" line if you beat him with the same knife.

i hare Kai Lang, he's such a "my character is better then your character, he's a space ninja, he can turn invisible, he's super strong in a fight, can easily take down the main character and is just so cool. also all the girls love him and want to kiss him.... and he looks like me" it's just so unearned, all other characters badassness feel earned but never his. wish they had instead done the clone story of the citadel DLC, if Cerberus had a masked operative that was elite and always seems to be just as strong or even stronger then Shepard then is later revealed to be his clone it would be a lot better, is it silly? sure but it's a hell of a lot better then Kai Lang.

If I was going to make Kai Leng work, I’d have made him a deadly ally in 2. Someone who either hates aliens or the alliance and is consistently partnering up on the same mission as Sheppard. You’d constantly see his handiwork on missions…his sword wounds all over the enemies you’d be facing. You could use renegade dialogue when he chimes in to clear out some enemies, only to find their eyes gouged out or their legs shredded leaving a blood trail to the door you enter from before expiring. It would be clear you can’t trust him…that you can’t rely on him not to “have fun” with the prey you send him against…but it’s efficiency and a renegade Shepard might employ him on a tactical level. If he uploads the mission at all cost, we could retcon it so he planted the Turian distress signal on the reaper mid game because he knew you had the firepower to do what needed doing. Hell, we could add him to the ship in 2 like Jessica Chobot in 3, and have him sulk around the ship hiding in the corners of the map…always somewhere else. If you manage to spot him, he compliments your eyes…and if you call him out on his brutality he’s the only crew member who never wavers or loses to your logic. He could be a real antihero to Shepard…and the MOMENT you hear about him in 3 being used against you, it would send a chill down your spine. Renegade Shepard’s would see Kai Leng as a ruthless assassin intent on killing you…and Paragon Shepard would see him as a monster who’s brutality you could never reign in. Maybe you feel regret…or disgust that he turned out that way. Maybe you save his life in 2 when he bites off more than he can chew so moments before he finishes you off on Thessia he pauses…remembers you saved his life…and just turns to leave. We treat him like he’s a loser in 3 because he comes off like an edgy teenager who just pops up in 3 and wrecks shit…kills people we love without any buildup…and is so much of a loser that he feels the need to mock you over email like an angry internet troll. If we knew him and fought alongside him while working for cerberus in 2…I don’t think we’d have seen him like this.

When Kai Leng was introduced in the story, I was so pissed at the lack of control I was given in that moment. He just walks up slowly to the salarian (because Thane died in my playthrough) and kills them. And Shepard just sits there twiddling her thumbs. I actually quit the game at that moment because it was clear to me that this game wasn’t interested in being an rpg.

What I don't understand is why even fight Shepard on Thessia if he was going to use the gunship to destroy the temple anyway? Why not just do that from the beginning? Why does he put his sword down and attack Shepard's squadmates in hand to hand? That whole fight on Thessia was stupid and made NO SENSE.

i'm doing a re-run of the whole saga and i'm laughing at the Kai Leng scene, because my Shepard in the cutscenes (so far) is using the Scorpion(that gun that shots sticky mini-bombs) and honestly it's the ultimate proof that Kai Leng got saved by the plot...

He looks like discount Nightwing.

About the book version of him. He's not much better, tbh. He's that "cold rutheless killer who enjoys all the murder he's doing" stereotype guy with almost nothing going on for him personally. Anderson ruins his legs in 3d book, but I don't think it ever mentioned in the game, or if he wants to get revenge or something.

I'm always perplexed why Kai Leng wasn't just... Miranda. She's established to be a genetically perfect human, literally custom created to do what she does, which is a great contrast with Shepherd, somebody who was kept deliberately imperfect because that's what made them human, what made them special. Miranda never had a real reason to leave Cerberus, even by the end of 2 she was still a Cerberus cheerleader and there's nothing in the games that would really indicate she'd ever stop being one. She's a spec-ops infiltration-y type, so can fit Kai Leng's role, and she's already got a skin-tight suit to give her a ninja look. Like Kai Leng she's got both biotic, technological and clear combat abilities, and we're shown how competent she was - she was almost inarguably the best squadmate of ME2, mechanically. You could even lean into that, have her leading small fire teams and giving them buffs like she gave to us a game ago. That further makes her a good antagonist to Shepherd, someone who's strength comes from being a small group because she's a good leader. Hell, give her a sword if you want. "I don't carry omnitools, too clunky, but I was taught how to fight in a half dozen different sword styles. Dad was old fashioned like that". I'd believe it, I can see her dual wielding a sword and an SMG or a pistol. Now your old friend, possibly even your old lover, is the one trying to kill you - not because she hates you, but because she genuinely believes you're wrong, she's genuinely doing what she thinks is best and really doesn't _want_ to kill any of you but values the future of the universe and her organisation over it all. It'd explain all those pauses and plot armour moments you complained about: the crew and Shepherd are all looking at someone who saved their life dozens of times, who they called friend and ally, and they hesitate, they hold back. Miranda, being both slowly indoctrinated and genuinely brainwashed by Cerberus' ideology (and maybe some genetic predisposition to that kind of thinking, if you want) has no such compunctions and doesn't hesitate or pause, giving her the upper hand above and beyond what she already has. Could even bring back the system with Saren where you could avoid fights if you had a good enough renegade/paragon score if you did her loyalty mission, and a special option if you romanced her. I'm just spitballing now though. There's so many better options than Kai Leng, I'd even have taken "It's the one who died on Virmire, Cerberus used their AI and psych profiles to bring them back, but even they're aware they're being indoctrinated and aren't a real person, oh isn't it tragic". Cyber-Revenant Ashley, make it happen past Bioware.

I always hold a strong opinion in regarding the lore outside of the game: if you can't be bother to show it in the game, I won't be bother to read up on it outside of the game. If the game fail to capture my interest in a character, why do you think I am going to bother looking for a comic or novel to read up on it later ? This has become a thing that game companies really like to do with how WoW has like a dozens books that exist outside of the game and if you didn't bother reading them up, well tough luck understanding their already convoluted story.