How Money Issues and Lawsuits Ruined One of The Best Female Vocal Groups of All Time | En Vogue 

Entertainers get their money from touring and live performances. Money from record sales goes to the record company. Entertainers wanting the money from record sales would be like record companies wanting their money when they come off tour. THis isnt 100% accurate but its pretty close. I was surprised the first time I read this, I think in Mary Wilson's book Dreamgirls. After that, every book I read about the music industry was almost identical in regards to who gets paid from what.

@@ceeceetracey9839 That’s not completely accurate. Artists still make money off of records sales if they are very successful. En Vogue was a very successful group and should’ve been making more from the record sales. The deal they were in was basically what they call a “slave contract” in the industry and it was typical of what a new artist would sign, especially back in those days. They should’ve been able to go back in and renegotiate after the 1st album and definitely after the 2nd album.

@@fixthatface483 i agree with you 100%. I wonder if they ever tried or was it just constant bickering and arguing. I'm going to look into how much entertainers get off of record sales because i never saw where it was much. Maybe more than 2 cents but not much more. The Supremes got a penny.

@@ceeceetracey9839 that's bullshit times have changed its time for those standards to change also especially since there's no more physical CDs that have to be printed up and most Artists marketing is online the Labels change things when it benefits them like when they brought in the 360 to try to get money from the Artists shows Merch and Everything else it's time for the Artists to get a bigger cut

@@Stonecoldalston Ask "Chance the Rapper" How come he didn't go through NONE OF THIS !!!

What about your friends They meant that

Exactly that’s what I love about them they stuck together and went after their money and got it

I don’t understand how the people in the music business can sleep at night knowing they rip people off and to justify it they say well you signed the contract with TLC CRAZYSEXYCOOL made about 175 million dollars and the girls only saw 2.3 of it and that’s not even 2.3 a piece but in all which after taxes they got about $300,000 a piece that would eat at me if I was the record company

If they had things could have been different

@@jamesde74 it really be the ones closest to you financially that will leech its so sad that people exploit other peoples talents and God given gifts 😑

I agree she wanted to give them what they deserve

Yes so.true i also.bought Terry album to support her . But it wasn't good at all. But hey itsball good dawn and Maxine are working on there cd and its gonna be fantastic. Dawn cd that she did it is a very good cd totally love it

Wasn’t she messing with the manager or something like that? I heard something like that back in the day

@@lilmoepal Unfortunately, Yes She Played herself by sleeping with one of THEIR Manager's Denzil (Denny)Foster formerly of/from Club Noveau (RUMORS,Why You Treat Me So Bad) .Denny obviously saw the she was the most gullible/ naive in the Group,and preyed upon her (weakest link out of 4 BLACK Women). HE knew he couldn't get over as easily on the other 3 Wonen. So he finessed&,gassed her Up and had her thinking she was gonna have her oyster & pick all the Pearls of the World,He OWNED her ,that's why when came time to speak up about "the Group " she was more concerned for/about HERself. She believed they were initially gonna marry & have a Family etc..and TRULY have the American Dream. She really disappointed Me when I found out what she Did.

They all CAN sing..Not one was better than the other

Agreed

FACTUALS, Its just DAWN Had more sense and decided not to sit around and get played like Debbi DUMBar!

@Nicole and Entourage Yep I remember That in the Movie

That some Chitlin circut kinda deal?! The fuck going on

No one could live off of that now let alone 30 years ago!

Right! She has a very soft tiny speaking voice but when she sings...the lion comes out!

@@MitchMitch77-77 very different from Beyoncé and Mariahs speaking voices.

Usually a lot of singers have soft spoken talking voices

She's always been really feminine and it shines through. Makes her so damn attractive.

She's fabulous

Right the record execs living in mansions while the girls are in apartments and if they weren’t getting out there on that stage the record execs wouldn’t have any of that. I saw one interview where Dawn said when they walked into their producers house she said so this is what our money bought you. If only they had stuck together like TLC but Terry was dating their producer so that’s a recipe for disaster right there

Yeah that Sylvia Rhone is a crook. No different than Berry Gordy

Damn right she had valid points. If their album makes platinum, that means 1 million albums were sold. 1 million albums x .02 per album = $20,000. I would have cuss someone out and left the group too. All that hard work for .02 per album? I don't get how Cindy and Terry would be happy with that God-awful deal. Remember when Prince had the word, Slave, written across his face referring to his treatment by Warner? Now I get it.

That was Dawn. Not Maxine. Maxine was with EnVogue. She may have jumped on Dawn's bandwagon but that was way after the fact.

Well Terry was dating the producer so she was getting the money on the back end so I guess she felt like why mess with anything I am getting something they didn’t stick together and when they are able to divide and conquer it’s over with

P

No, the label's greed just like 99% of other cases did it.

Well it was a group designed to be controlled. They probably didn’t even write their own lyrics

Thank you

Exactly!! Stronger together.

They sucked awful singing

Even If you're getting ripped off AND splitting it 4 ways??

@@steviepigford1912 Consensus says otherwise. You must not know much about music at all.

WHICH is why I Don't understand WHHYYY Cindy &TERRY STILL WANNA perpetuate the "AIRHEAD" role and Not understand Dawn's & Maxine's P.O.V. of NOT letting MEN or Women (Greedy Producer's/Executives)play you like lil puppets on a String,and Control your EVERY move. As BLACK Women, they Embarrass me, bc Cindy&TERRY showed how they have No Self Respect & Dignity for THEMselves & or to Stand up for what's Right! Just being Beta/Passive Women & let other people control your Life & Destiny! #ToH🔥with THAT!

Exactly. You can always tell when someone tells the truth. Dawn is consistent and detailed. The other two are always elusive in their approach when discussing it. Had they stood together and did a TLC move they would’ve gotten paid and been able to continue making music on their own terms

They should have paid them what they deserved because without Dawn and Maxine, it was not the same.... They were the spice.

@@rissaceehart4076 Maybe they are airheads...just happy to be famous.

@@Boobalopbop Not the same at all! I never quite bought into the 3 member group

That was what TLC did. They band together and got what was rightfully theirs. They also hired a manager who had their best interest at heart and fought for them.

as much as i get tired of hearing people crying about dawn's interviews and those two pennies, this is true.

yes / the girl groups of the 90s were amazing / so were the female rappers

...EVER....!!!!

You are going have to go thru the music of the 60s, 70's, and 80's to prove that claim..

@@basquait1 I already have, don’t limit a collection of albums you’ve never seen 😎

@@sunsetnwaves I am curious to know what one or two albums that I need to know? Please share.

And it's sad people still jump head first into the entertainment industry without going to college to learn the business part

The lawyer usually works and gets paid by the label

It's often a lawyer supplied by the label. People are so eager to get on, they don't see the obvious conflict of interest.

@@Bellissimma Oh yeah, you have to know what you're doing/signing bc the lawyer will simply sellout for his own good

Today’s hip hop artist don’t get reeled in like this. They have more power and more control and most have a tad more knowledge than artists of the past.

@@stonedog23 True but some are still taken advantage of even today... especially new artist trying to break through... but even established artist be looking to break away because they come to know they deserve better and more.

Not to me

#1👑

@@liljay3006 I don't think that's what the comments were trying to say maybe it was because en vogue was first and they are better singers than all female groups combined DC is my second favorite female group after En Vogue.

@@liljay3006 yes to me they did I bought albums from every group you named I still have plenty of DC albums my en vogue ones were lost 😠😠😠😠.

SAD 😔 that these AMAZING singers couldn’t seem to STAND UP for each other as STRONG 💪🏽 WOMEN should. It only took one ☝🏽 “TOXIC” relationship. Who could accept .02 a record…DEPLORABLE situation. 🙇🏻‍♀️🎼🎶♥️🌟 If other groups can learn and see the value of being cohesive and protecting one another from being taken advantage of by greedy music reps. Lovely but talented singers will always be a NOSTALGIC memory for me.

En Vogue could definitely do Vegas

I would make a trip to Vegas just to see to the original four sing on stage. They have such great chemistry and on stage presence together.

Yes!

The total package would have included business sense.

The industry use artist all the time!

I dont even think they are the same. EnVogue had four lead singers who could blow shit down, sing better live and their harmonies were crazy. Destiny's Child was pretty much just "beyonce and them". 😂

@@ceeceetracey9839 Michelle can really sing just wasn't given the opportunity to shine.

@@ceeceetracey9839 and before EnVogue there was The Supremes. What’s your point? There will always be someone before and after.

@@denea4418 ...include The Emotions, The Pointer Sisters, The Dunning Sisters-Skyy.......

Jones Girls, Pointer sisters and Ronettes also....

Spill tea

@James Gray boy bye !

@James Gray sometimes the attorneys are in on it......like I said! It’s dirty beyond belief. Nuff said🙏

@@deancrawford5393 My sister is an entertainment and media Solicitor and you are 100% correct.

@Michelle Rodriquez sometimes .......some attorney......not all....and.....Not only L.A.....the world 🌎

Yeah Dawn was absolutely beautiful

Still my crush to this day

She's not that beautiful

@@terrancemaloney29 If you think she isn’t beautiful, may be more into the RuPaul LaVerne Cox type. Whatever floats your boat. Who am I to judge? 🤷

🤣🤣🤣🤣

never go into a negotiation without your own lawyer

But like Dawn said you can’t be in the group without signing the contract so you can’t learn it as you go really you should learn and know what you’re getting into before you get into it or else you’ll be messed up

Why on earth would anybody not want to renegotiate and get what they’re worth is beyond me, Cindy must not have a mind of her own because Terry was doing alright dating their producer so she was in a good position even though she could’ve been in a better one getting her own money

Its the same now

Wow! Thanks for watching.

Awww

Right!

The entertainment industry is another form of slavery. With special levels of slavery reserved and 'exclusive' to Black people.

I would just say do it as a hobby if u love it. Not as a living. Find something else to allow u to earn your bread.

I say go into it if you’re business savvy. But I agree with you it’s a ripped off for sure. It use to be my dream but being broke after success, dying in a plane crash after a video because the booked you on a cheap plane, or losing your mind in that business made me rethink that idea a long time ago.

Its nothing wrong with going onto the BUSINESS,BUT You just gotta be Smart & Do your Homework & Research First!!... ALLL OF IT! Soak up & learn EVERYthing you can like a wet Sponge.This way when record producers,managers &/talent scouts seek you out ,you know how to talk their language. Converse with them on an intelligent level that way their 1ST Impression of you won't lead them to believe you are a Complete Idiot &or Dumb a $$. Bc TRUST when your entire convo begins or ends with "You know what I'm sayin"??🙅🙅🙅🙄🙈😒😒😒😒😒😒😒😒..they ALREADY KNOW they got a sucka on their hands IF they decide to do any business with You!# PERIODTT!!So Moral of Story: DON'T PLAY Yourself or find yourself getting played/exploited for personal gain. I have a business Proposition Right now that I'm looking to work with Unsigned Artists/Musicians who are SERIOUS about getting a jump on their Careers and need Legal Representation so Someone can help explain to them what they DON'T KNOW/Understand about Contract renegotiating.

They ALWAYS used the artist. Check history.

Hold On is still the jam.

The girls should have had a conference call with TLC.....

Glenn Braggs ,MLB player is her Hubby.

Glenn Braggs was a Major League Baseball player

@@rissaceehart4076 yes so thats why Cindy wasn't worry about money she had get husband to take care of her. And Terry had the producer she was dating at that time. The only thing the other 2 girls wanted was just to get paid that's all love for them to get back together I really do the album because the album they have out now with the 3 not that good.

@James Gray The trouble is they do hire lawyers that are 'suggested' by the label because the artists and their 'management' have no clue! There is a lot of self-interested back scratching amongst the people that are supposed to have the artists interests as priority but don't. The artists are just cash cows for everyone in the circle.

@James Gray They also do not READ their contracts. And some of the black artists are ROBBED BY THEIR OWN PEOPLE.

No

Idk, brownstone was equally as good. IMO.

They did blow up but behind the scenes problems got in the way. And everyone won’t be on top for ever

Supremes and pointer sisters...tops

@@flutoporter6971 ha ha ha ha ha. .no

@@juliansearcie1758 no...no...no

Nah. I say they are up there with The Jones Girls and The Emotions.

Right, that crazy to me. I would sue to be co-owner of the name.

Agreed

Which could be why they never took Dawn and Maxine side 🤔🤔

Tommy and Denny probably owned that. Cindy and Terry likely didnt feel they had to fight for it until Dawn and Maxine started using it too. This was never an issue prior to this.

Why would they own it? They auditioned for the band which already had the name copyrighted by the men who set everything up. They were performers filling a role in the end.

Absolutely 👍

It's like I'll make you famous if you make me rich hell to the nah

Me tooooooo!!! My cousin and I used to sing and dance to their first TAPE! Pure talent and beauty ❤️

Absolutely. Maxine and Dawn rounded out their sound. The 4 together were magic

Yyyyyyyyaaaaaass!

@@dpcisunbreakable they were I remember them on roc and maybe even family matters they were on the Wayans Bros too.

I used to think they were the same person too. It’s crazy hoe much they look alike and they are also very good friends..

They are best friends too

It’s even crazier that En Vogue sang the theme song for the sitcom Holly was on, “Hangin’ with Mr. Cooper.”

Exactly.. cause being a Jezebel and a baby momma is what's hot these days.. not being classy

Well if EnVogue got back together and made new music it would be for their fans. Not for teenagers.

@@Chitownhomestead Or Hot Girl/Thotiana

The music is better, if you know where to look. Don’t give up in the next generation. You wouldn’t like it if someone older said that about you.

That’s not true. Look at Bruno Mars and Silk Sonic.

If they want to make some big bucks its gonna HAVE to be the original four. However, the new argument is that Rhona has been a member of Envogue longer than Dawn and Maxine at this point.

Good one, Mr. Jackson !!!I may use from time to time 🙂

I'm stealing this🤣🤣🤣

You mean Americans or to be specific, Black-Americans?! None of these women are African or born there.

@@PopCultureCarnivore1 please stop. This is not the place for that reductive argument.

Well said brother! 💕✊🏾

Oh really do tell...

Nah,they didn't wanna mention this for fear of possible lawsuits following.

😮

I dunno. It just makes Terri out to be mindless...and I'm not sure that's fair.

@@filmgirlLisa I don't think it makes her mindless, it makes her human, it's part of the story. Almost the same thing happened with the Supreme's. Ego, love, money, fame is a dangerous combination. Add the actual talent getting paid the least amount of anyone..

Sylvia who?

@@Cleopatra1985 Rhone

@@Nikkyeshiva83 yes her name also comes up when male artists got screwed over too.

@@Nikkyeshiva83 that's the woman that shelved Adina Howard's album after she said things about her on the radio.

I get what Dawn is saying for the most part but you dont have to sabotage EVERYTHING. The way she dealt with it was beneficial to NO ONE. There was a better way.

Pointer sisters best

Agreed and what happened in that situation

@Michelle Rodriquez great taste. I have the billie holiday album "lady in satin".

@Michelle Rodriquez no I haven't seen the movie. But I'm aware about the FBI's harassment of her.

@Michelle Rodriquez I used to take saxophone lessons from the jazz musician Charles Davis in the late 1980s and early 90s. He passed in 2016. He was a sideman in one of Billie's bands in the late 1950s.

@Michelle Rodriquez he didnt have any stories. I'm sure if I had asked he would have. He was an in demand sideman, particular for the baritone sax. He performed with Dinah Washington, John Coltrane, Ray Charles, Nancy Wilson, Abdullah Ibrahim (also known as Dollar Brand) and many more. He performed for ex-president Bill Clinton in 2002. In 1964 he was named Downbeat magazine's top baritone sax player. He was a close friend trumpeter Kenny Dorham. So he was a great instructor.

Noooo Destinys child was for the youngings

@James Gray Dude, you really should consider approaching your message differently.

@@bgcrp2005 not necessarily I liked En Vogue when I was younger and dc when I was a teenager.

Supremes....and pointer sisters are

@@flutoporter6971 I love the Pointer Sisters.

That's what I was thinking! I was like, what did they get per show!?

I agree they need all the original members

Wasn’t born in that era but I doubt it there’s no real rnb and people are more into alt-rnb plus they’ve been gone for faaarrrr too long

@@Tiajones333 they have a new member

They are all pushing 60 now.

Of they did, they’d be doing the same trash that everyone else is doing now.

I never liked the replacements

Yeah. I’m not feeling the new group.

Agreed.

Nailed it

Yes I totally miss dawn and Maxine but the sound is not there Rhonda voice is totally different from the other girl she must sing the bottom note to blend in with Terry and Cindy I know they got to do they own thing but I just miss the original sound and they use to dance now the 2 girls just stand still. WHAT THE HELL

It makes me wonder what Rhona is getting paid!

@@Cleopatra1985 She's not complaining and has returned to the group on two separate occasions after being asked to sit out for the original line-up. I can only assume that she's "satisfied" (pun intended, LOL!!) with the arrangement she, Cindy and Terry now have----??

@@jamiebaxter7965 That's a lot to ask of someone. Stepping aside while your group members reunite with two other originals more than once and not saying anything about it, at least in public?

@@kevinpayton2664 As amazing as it's been, Rho stepped back multiple times back in '05 and again in '08 (more than twice). However, this go 'round, I don't see her going away quietly, if at all?? I know I wouldn't, especially after the years I've given to the process? Ultimately, Rho's resolve and professionalism is what makes me a dedicated fan of hers.

Yep, they sang the shows theme song!

They were AWESOME on the show "Roc!"

@James Gray You must be an attorney. This is not an advertisement opportunity.

@@VoltairesRevenge He must've removed his post. I missed that. Lol

I remember the Box

@@JLPerryTV Terry and Denny were still together in 1999 and she sang background as a favor for Frank Gatson.

I've read loads of biographies by people in the music industry and entertainers usually get a few pennies from the album sales because that money goes to the record company. Entertainers get their money from touring and live performances. Its just how they divvy the money up.

@@ceeceetracey9839 that’s definitely not entirely true. It depends on your contract with the record label and management. Sometimes management gets a huge % of your tour money. Artists have to pay for every expense on the tour and end up left with nothing.

@@RP.123 that's crazy. So where does the artists money come from?

@@ceeceetracey9839 It depends on what you signed. Many are left with nothing which is why some file for bankruptcy. Sometimes the lawyer negotiating the deal works for the artist and the record company and/or manager (conflict of interest).

She can have all the questions and lawyers she wants, the band was created by other people so she either signs or moves on.

@@daisyhoward5472 thats why there's strengths in numbers. If they would have all refused, the company would have given it to them.

@@ummzaynab7702 And that's what Cindy and Terry are too ignorant to realize. Had they ALL refused, they would've been given the world.

Thanks for the feedback!😉

TLC only got 55cents per album too. A lot more than EV, but 55cents? Smh!

Add New Edition to that list

Don't mention Prince and George in the same sentences as those garbage artists you name dropped, they are legends unlike those rats

@@bigolebot You calling Em Vogue rats? 🤷‍♂️😂

@@milesthehousecollection4153 yep, especially the gay member. Terry

Agreed

@@macewbee exactly.