This is how much I made for my own quoted job and how much I charge as a sub contractor. I'm making this video to share how much can be made as a carpenter, as I have had a lot of questions asking if its a career worth considering
One thing I didn’t talk about in this video, is the money I make from making these videos. My priority is to continue to make these videos better and better, so that they make a good chunk of my income. By doing this I can quote jobs lower, and I can also take my time with my jobs and set up a camera to film the process, rather than rushing to knock the job over and move on to the next.
If you don’t already follow him … Head straight over to Scott Brown Carpentry. He’ll have great tips on videos and how to make the main income for RU-vid rather than the carpentry side.
Awesom mate, appreciate the transparency. Some of us dont really have anyone to compare our prices to so its nice to have an insight from someone in the same business. Looks like my pricing and system is practically the same as yours.
Hey bro cool very video👌🏻 I would definitely be charging a bit more. just remember to charge yourself out @ your rate/hr and make sure to add margin for your buisness to thrive. Also try charging your man out at 1.5x what you pay him👍🏻 Obviously you are a talented young guy. my advise as a 35 year old carpenter would be, get to know your own value and think bigger and more outside the box in the way of what you should/could be charging. I know the feeling that goes through your mind on “AM I CHARGING TOO MUCH”. Just remember you have invested time & money to acquire these skills and this is your time to make good coin 💵 you can always come down on price to win a job. You are going awesome and a great example of what a young tradie should be, keep up the good work 💪🏻
Interesting video, thanks Dave. It seems as though you should definitely have quoted more, you seem to be worth it. And good on you for being fair to Mitch with the pay. It's a big struggle these days being an apprentice.
-Min for a trade qualified Carpenter should be $65PH +GST -10% on materials as you get get them at trade price anyway -lastly some kind of margin to make it worth your time and to help you grow (trailers, tools, so on) around 15-20% is a good starting point.
Nice one brother! Another great vid, it would be great to see work-arounds for sparkys vs Chippys when it comes to light installs when joists are in the way, when you've done the job and their trying to get their light fittings symmetrical after the install.
Great video Dave! I came across this video last night. I have now subscribed to your channel. I read your comment re. subsidizing your income via money from YT videos. In your industry do you use the 'rule of 3rds' when quoting (which I refer to as the 'rule of 4ths'). As in, decide what 'you' want to get paid per hr (to keep as personal income - eg. $30, $40 or maybe $50 per hr), then times that by 4, so that 1/4 covers expenses (eg. Xero, fuel, tools replacement, maintenance, marketing, etc, etc, etc... and all the other hidden costs of running a business), 1/4 as profit/ business capital (and to help with business growth) and the final 1/4 to pay tax. Plus add what you plan to bill your sub-contractor out at and add that. Plus then add material costs (with some mark-up) on top of that... and maybe add a bit of 'contingency' to your quote for 'unknowns'? That's one way to quote in the industry I am in, which isn't the carpentry building industry. I use the 'rule of 4ths' when quoting to give me a quote starting point. I then might use a 'sliding scale' method to reduce the quote a bit if I feel I need to (depending on the client). I do also allow for negotiation, sometimes agree to price match (if the potential client is getting other quotes),.. and sometimes I even offer an early bird price if I feel I need to sweeten the detail a little (but the stipulation is to receive it, they must sign up and pay a 50% deposit by a certain date... which helps my cashflow and helps them pull the trigger on my quote... vs them procrastinating), etc. Your work quality looks great! Great work too on your videos!
I enjoyed that. The heat seems nice to me as I was in the snow today😢. I allow 15% extra materials for jobs like that, I mark up my materials 25% and then add 20% on top for profit. That deck looks unreal, not much hardwoods used here in Canada.
Great video as always Dave. Thanks for sharing. I have been self employed for 3 years and still manage to stuff up a quote once in a while. My biggest piece of advice is to not itemize quotes. Write what you are doing EG: supply & install 10 Black Aluminium windows & reveals Price $3600 inc gst. If you quote materials and kabour seperatly clients think the labour is negotiable.
💯 good advice bro, I never itemised quotes and refused to break them down when asked. As soon as the client sees your rates split up, they can instantly work out what your labour etc is and it defeats the purpose of fixed price contracting.
For future quotes, at least allow another 10% on top of material just in case you made a mistake. In your case $3000 I would have allowed for material, and then 950 per day for you and your worker as you’re paying him full timer rates. So your quote would have been 4900 + GST. You might think that’s a bit much, but once you’re factoring in apps like Xero, Microsoft office subscriptions, overheads such as travel and vehicle expenses you’d want to be allowing at least $65 an hour for yourself to make it worth the headfuck of quoting and doing the job.
$500 day rate (8.5hrs minus lunchbreak) in Melbourne is a must. Otherwise you are short changing yourself after paying the taxman, super, sick leave, annual leave, tools, purpose built car for the job, profit as a business etc.
Agree with the comments advocating margins. I put 25% on materials and subcontract labour and 33% on my labour (these margins can be adjusted). I used to worry about how customers would react, but surprisingly I’ve had no impact and have stacks of work on. Again agree with comments highlighting hidden costs. The margin covers the hidden costs of operating a business in our industry, helps me meet the financial outlay for the sustained operation in our industry, plus puts money away for if and when work slows down. If you read the stats, thousands of builders are going bust and contractors are leaving the industry. I also get half the money upfront to avoid putting financial pressure on myself (I mostly do works from $5,000 - $100,00). It took a while to work this approach out. I enjoy your videos, for the knowledge you pass on. You appear to be a bloody good worker/contractor, so believe in yourself. Keep up the good work.
I’m future I will, and I previously have followed similar margins. I appreciate your comment and experience on the matter! I mentioned this in another comment, but I did pick up this job last minute to fill in a day I had without work, so I was happy to quote it a bit lower just to make sure I had something to do on the public holiday Cheers mate!
@@berlinbarhounds5942so when Amazon takes the full amount from you before you receive the item that’s ok then? Sounds a bit bizarre for it to be illegal
@@berlinbarhounds5942not if it’s in a contract which the customer signs. And that’s far better than having to come back and demo a new build when the customer refuses to pay
That's something I'm working out myself. I feel it's hard for me to work out a price. I put so much pressure on myself not to be too low or top high. Also, in my last job(hourly) I would run into so many issues that made us take longer than expected. That also makes me second guess. I'm not fully independent but I am getting more side jobs so I need to get on point.
When you started did you have any certificates? work experience? etc. If not where you familiar with how to measure properly or was that taught on the job. Im in yr 12 atm and exploring my options.
I use to subby for $50 an hour and charge out private at $60. Changed that all this year to subby at $60-65 minimum and private I aim for around $100hr. When I'm quoting I round up all material to the nearest $100 and then chuck between 15-25% mark up on material. Also try to add in all my quoting/ site meeting time and travel time to the end price as that is your time which you should be payed for. Good stuff mate!!
I work in decks every day doing deck restoration and I would recommend when doing deck work or work that gets to your back especially, do yoga!!! Makes a massive difference with just ten minutes of stretching every morning it’s a world of difference, also mate you can totally charge more especially at the moment with inflation rates so high everything else is going up and you are too!! Carpenters are desired at the moment so know your worth even though it seems hard sometimes and feels like you won’t get the work Also subscribed to you the videos are great and hopefully assisting to fund you 👍
Great vid, I'd be interested in seeing how you do your quoting in more detail. I'm a construction estimator.. so I did my own quote on your work before you went through it to see how far off I was. I came up to $4,100 so pre close.. but definitely an eye opener about what is left over for the business owner.
That’s interesting how close you came! If I were to re do this job I would be quoting it higher. I’ll definitely make a video in the future going through the quoting process and keen to hear how you quote your jobs aswell
As a sparky I used to charge $120 an hour but first hour was $180 to help absord some of the overheads such as lost time with travel and so forth. Day rate for my business I would aim for $1200-1500 which also allowed for some mark up on materials and so forth so $4-5000 a week gross before tax, any less I may as well work for someone else. My builder mate would be similar charge out and working in south east Queensland, once you get the word of mouth and demand up naturally can increase charge out as your a limited commodity. Towards the end I also used to just job cost so no hourly rate so say for a small job instead of my usually hourly rate I may end up being on $3-400 an hour but your also charging for your vision, admin time and so forth..
Wow. You would never get any jobs where I’m from. I live in America and I’ve been a carpenter for 20 years and I’ve had my own business for 11 years. We build houses, additions, porches, decks, fences and also do interior trim and finish work. I’m lucky to make 300-350 per day. ( 8 hours). I pay my help 100-200 per day. I also have friends and acquaintances who are carpenters and we all make around the same.
I always sketch out putting my rafters on a faux parapet wall like that, I've had the council say that it creates a hinging point. Is this something you've encountered? I usually tied the parapet and main wall frame together with threaded rods on 1800c if I need to do this. also tie downs become a nightmare, connect the rafter to the top plate, top plate to stud, stud to bottom plate, then all over again for the bottom wall frame
It’s clearly obvious that you do quality work and therefore should be paid accordingly. You will always have work if you quote fairly and do a good job. Reputation is so important and clearly needs to be earned. I would definitely use you on my build. I like your attitude and work ethic and the fact that you did the right think by the young apprentice. To save your knees, when doing decking you should consider using knee pads.
Same pricing for subbying. Only thing with private jobs is to always allow an added day to your predicted timeline, whether you need it or not. You don’t need to let the client know you’ve priced it for 3 days however. So currently with quotes I’ll price the job up by how long I think it will take, not by m² rate. The bigger (longer) the job, the more days I add. For some reason I’ve had more success with quotes this way.
And out of that $430 you have tax, fuel, vehicle running costs, wear and tear on tools then out of what you have left you spend on more dead money, rent, interest on loans, food, insurance and all the other crap we are forced to shell out for so after that what are you really earning?, 95% of us are pretty much just working for the system while a small greedy few line their pockets, great video mate I’ll even subscribe to support your channel plus I like carpentry building construction landscaping, you name it
Firstly, good on you for treating your apprentice well, many out there don't appreciate their helpers. With that said, I'm a builder based in from NZ. In my opinion you are significantly undervaluing your services. You need to take into account the considerable time investment required for each job: initial inquiries, site visits, plan and document review, and the preparation of quotes and contracts. Furthermore, there are additional expenses to consider, such as insurance, tool maintenance, and vehicle upkeep. Let's not overlook the pitfalls of fixed-price contracts. They often entail unforeseen challenges that can end up costing you money in the long run. It's inevitable that you'll encounter such situations, so it's crucial to build a safety margin into your contracts to mitigate potential losses.
Thanks mate! I do agree and I didn’t quote this job high enough. Truthfully I was intending to try and complete this job by myself without having an apprentice to help me, which would have been two massive days to get it done, but I would have ended up earning a good amount for the job. I also was happy enough to quote this job on the lower end to be sure I would secure it, as I did have a day free that I wanted to fill up Thanks for the comment mate!
Definitely should be doubling your prices mate. Hold yourself at a higher regard seems you do clean and quality work. Better off working less but earning the same amount than working more but earning less.
Always allow for extra materials bro, easy to bring a couple bits back if you don't use them, when working out labour content add extra time for your driving around, quoting etc and work it off the hourly rate you want to make, and you need to make margin off your worker. When you do a good job people will pay you what your worth bro, don't undervalue yourself. I was exactly the same as you when I started you have to make the $ to be able to enjoy later years while your young before your body breaks down. Aim for $50-$75/hr + $15+ an hour on your worker and margin on materials. Cool videos dude keep it up. Oh and I would of put those Verge nogs on the other side of the wall save having to put nogs in to catch the soffit lining
You need to price in some risk. One day you will get a call back. Eg. adding a stubb wall on top without ceiling joists means there is nothing restraining the top plate. If the next guy does a raked ceiling the wall lining will crack at best.
Yes, there's other tradies out there. But most are self interested rubbish. By that I mean most aren't reciprocal! Customers are prepared to pay us a tiny premium. For that? They get a coat of waterproof and rubbish taken on a Saturday morning. So, the waterproofing dries for Monday tiling instead of having a "drying day" and they get a rubbish free weekend at home. And a few 10 hour days to stay on schedule. Not many do the little extras!
this is why many trades have gone to commercial jobs this is what I hate about our industry do people drive around looking for a 1.50 coffee no 70% of people pay $4.50 instead of a 7-eleven coffee my point is there should be a COST PLUS normal most industries and a cost normal rate your a good tradie - tho our industry building is going through drama we are all looking for the best answers
Good to know what other guys are charging. Been working for myself for 3 years and still find quoting hard as every job is different as I’m doing maintenance and you don’t know of if your too cheap or too expensive and lose the job. I’ve learnt a few things, if you’re paying more for material it’s a high risk job so I’d charge more, less material I’d charge less, the risk is less…
Sounds like you could possibly making more. I’m not familiar with your area. If you consistently have a few months work booked, that’s when you’ll know to raise prices. Also need to make money on material mark up as well. If clients don’t like that tell them to grab and deliver themselves.
4th year chippy for 30 an hour. My goodness. I'm a zero skill handyman and I bill out at $75 an hour. Was thinking I'd be sad hearing you tell me about how you've pocketing 1k a day but nvm. I'll go to work happy tomorrow. Sanded and sealed a 50sqm deck today $1200 in the pocket after expenses. Was looking at the deck you built, looks mint, would love to do maintenance on that thing $$$$$
When I was doing contracts a couple of years ago me and my partner were earning about 40 bucks per hour of work each while we were training a new guy 18 an hour and had an offer from a fellow carpenter to work for us with his partner for 70 an hour, which would've been profitable.
Sign up with a trade body that includes trade partner discounts for materials, stuff Bunnings + buy/store regular items you use in bulk (pallet of cement bags ect) Charge a 10-30% markup on materials. Your have a great work ethic , honest quality trades are a dime in dozen - your in business to make money so charge your worth 🤙 Keep up the good work legend !
For anyone wondering - My "permenant" rate is 50 ph working as a true subby. My builder hourly rate is 65 My one off quote is material + 10% and labour at 65 ph with a buffer depending on how big the job is. That buffer either works out to be icing on the cake. Or the bail out funds. That being said most of my work is purchase order direct for builder. Good day i make 1300. Most days i make 650/850 Worst job to date paid 650 took me 3 days. Blew up a planer. Chewed a box of nails, a box of battons and whatever else. All of that is before paying an apprentice. It truly isnt the best. But in my first year working direct for builders and making it work.
Firstly, thanks for this. It's a good thing to see how others are working out their quotes. I've heard a few people mention materials + 10%, What is the thinking behind that, is it just allowing for extra material?
If you sub contract then the lead contractor is putting their margin on top to the customer which restrains the bid. Depends on arrangement but common 12 percent margin on sub trades
Can I say this is a common mistake made by contactors. Your pay should be calculated in the costs of doing the job . Additionally you have some fixed costs per day to operate your business. Vehicle, tool maintenance & consumables, insurance , Phone, Licenses. Calculate this annually then divide by working days. You will be surprised what this adds up to , Lets say it $50 per day as an example. you should include that in any quote. Add your margin to the total cost of doing the job including your wages & fixed costs . What is left is what you have made (profit) to grow your business etc. Thanks for sharing. Based on your costs this is how i would price it. Materials 2700 labour 1360 ($65 for you @16 hours + $40 for assistant @8 hours) Fixed costs 2 days @ $50 Margin 20% $832 this could be whatever you want. Total $4992 So you paid yourself and have a profit of $832 after completion.
You charge for your phone??? Everyone has a phone. These comments from everyone are ridiculous and all the petty shit they charge for. You would be sitting at home from where I’m from. No homeowner or general contractor would pay these crazy numbers everyone is talking about. I guess America is different.
@@Seqhaellunch, clothes, boots, gas, your hammer , tape and pencil are also tax deductible but that doesn’t mean you dump all that off on your customers.
@@jakepadgett5569 price is the price and I’ve not been sitting at home yet… they can always find someone else 🤷♂️. At the end of the day, carpentry is a skill. If everyone was a surgeon, they wouldn’t make the money that they do. It’s supply and demand.. just because people look down on it doesn’t mean it’s not valuable, and it’s as valuable as much as people are willing to pay. Not everyone is a carpenter, but with only 7 guys joining the trade for every 50 old boys retiring, that skill is becoming more and more valuable. The free market decides the price
Dude you are worth more than that. Dont be afraid to quote higher - guarantee people will pay. Your skills are high level and valuable. As a consumer, Id pay you double for the quality of work you are delivering and attention to detail. Pump up the quote and receive more, for less. All the best!!!
I honestly reckon he is selling himself short as well. I dont think it is "ripping" anyone off, but you pay a mechanic around $100/hr labour during a car service. Fair is fair
Plumb corners then stringline instead of plumbing inbetween especially if its somebody else who started the job. You probably already know this and i know i sound like those nobheads who criticize on RU-vid 😂 love you work tho brother💯
Give yourself some credit mate. I have watched only 2 of your videos thus far and unequivocally you are a gun and worth 80+ as a subby and double your quotes on private jobs. Good on you for paying the help 40 an hr but you are worth 1k per day with the output you produce. You are young but don't let that hold you back. You are very, very good at your craft mate. All the best 👍
Agreed. Minimum 1k a day mate, not many blokes can produce the goods like that, think laterally and create neat work also. An immigrant Afghan with shit quality charges 50. At least charge 87.50 so it's 500 after tax
Surely you need to start charging abit more, especially if your putting out quality work. $430/day is so low, minus super, minus your time spent quoting jobs which you may or may not get, minus having to stress about being on the hook if it goes pear-shaped, minus the overheads of all your tooling, accounting etc. Just FYI I'm on $70/hr as a sparky (thats as a full timer, with super, paid annual/sick leave, private health insurance on top of that). And my younger cousin is a unskilled labourer on like $55/hr working on the tramlines but with all the bullshit union allowances/overtime he gets is actually making slightly more than me
Preach... need the most tools, need to know the most. Need to worry about all other trades and know how their processes work. Need to know wayyy more than just building and all different types of materials/ claddings etc. Definitely get your money's worth for a good chippy...
Great video. I think many of us tradies need to remember that something is worth whatever someone is willing to pay. That’s how capitalism works. I’m not advocating price gouging/ ripping people off, but there is nothing immoral about charging enough to grow a successful and sustainable business. An old boy once told me “if you’re not losing half your quotes because you’re too expensive, then you’re too cheap”.
You also forgot to cover the time to do any admin work? Calls, invoicing, etc. Some clients dont mind paying more, especially if you communicate well and are reliable (turn up on time and do the job roughly within time expectations). Thanks for sharing your personal experiences.
I’m in the process of going out on my own and find the quoting very hard, especially for bigger projects. I somehow landed a 6 month gig on this woman’s property and just doing it charge up cos I don’t know how to quote it
Eh - red seal carpenter of 15 years from Canada here . Now general contractor. You’re a talented carpenter. Good work ,cost good money . Leave a contingency on materials when you’re supplying them for overruns. ( you’re apprentice easily could have cut a rafter wrong) and add a MINIMUM 10% mark up. Secondly even though you’re on the tools you need to account for the admin side of things. And a contingency for mistakes- it’s construction and we’re human- there is ALWAYS MISTAKES . Last piece of advice for could give is ALWAYS be cautious working on a job that’s 1/2 done and document absolutely everything and have absolutely everything in writing . I personally wouldn’t have touched that. OH !! And never work for friends! Keep up the good work Cool video I really enjoyed it
Thats terrible. What state are you in? I'm doing renos atm and I'm paying my carpenter $70 an hour which for a decent builder with 10+ years experience is cheap. Nearly all of the other subbies trades I have used have been between 80-120 an hour, plasterer was around 60 an hour.
Know your worth mate. Dont worry about low ballers undercutting you. Establish your position in the market with a higher profit margin and stay there. If one of your paslodes fucked up you’d be in the negative. Don’t forget your insurance, fuel, depreciation etc.
The best thing to do in your quote is to have inclusions and exclusions. Like fixing old broke stuff you didnt see. Exclusions are kind of tags...but be reasonable. Swings and roundabouts and all that. Customers are won or lost based on their expectations not yours.
Another hack. The 30 percent hack. Add 10 percent to prices, get customers to do 10percent more and increase productivity..or sales by 10 percent. Maybe you add some sub contracted service like yard clean after...for renos you could have subbies come paint and clean and landscape and charge margin on that. Etc
Nice work mate, but I think you’re undercutting yourself on your private jobs. You want to be making double your normal subcontracting rate on your private jobs to get ahead from taking days off. Remember the guys you’re quoting against will most likely have guys on wages and overheads their quotes will be a lot higher then yours
This. Definitely this. I always give estimates. Hourly rate + material cost. I keep the material cost discount from the stores for myself. Depending on the job the clock starts when I arrive at Bunnings. I challenge myself to get the estimate correct. I won't stand for risks financially myself, as I will never know what I will find in reno's. Yet if it only should have taken 3 hours to do something and it took 8 due to circumstances, I'll probably bill something like 5.
As a sparky and what our going rate is in Sydney, I really think you guys do a lot more physically demanding work. I think you should be paid at least $90 an hour for the sort of work you’re doing.
Working for wages. I'd say 30- 50 an hour for a "decent" qualified. More then that youre working on commercial with penalty rates. Most subbies who are full time contractors are making 45/65 an hour. Both those rates the people you're working for will supply all "consumables" except maybe circ blades. So your only real cost is fuel and tool replacement when they finally give up. Lots of people will tell you they won't work for less than 80. But that's what I've found working domestic carpentry for the last decade.
bro admittedly I just saw a small bit of your vid, but I think you said you made 4 hundy per day and payed apprentice almost the same? ffs you gotta charge more, also that extra timber from bunnings, all you do is run it past client first that its extra and add it on. If you run it past the client or principle contractor first and they ok the variation, its normal. People only get upset when they get a bigger invoice than quoted without being told first. 👌 I always aimed for a grand a day at least, even when I was just contracting, but I was doing membrane roofing and thats $$$$
Price seems a bit low mate, you're a gun chippy and as you say, you are able to run job's for these companies. That's an incredible value for them to have you on-side. With your overheads in mind, and future proofing and expansion of your business, I'd be aiming to make at least $750 a day before tax. It sounds allot, but once you factor in those overheads it's an honest day's rate for quality and consistency. An old tradesman told me a great point the other day, quality work lasts the test of time and appreciates in the value of the real estate, therefore that extra $1000$2000 on the quote as a buffer incase of misscalcs really doesn't matter in the long run. If the client is willing to see that reason, then it's likely they aren't the kind of people you want to be doing work for.. Avoid that undercutting race to the bottom and hold pride in your price and your work.
U need to understand that u shouldn’t be working EVER for less than $600 a day otherwise you are working way too hard and way too much for the money. I have many jobs where my daily rate is $1000 or more. People are paying you for an excellent result and as such you should charge for an excellent result!! Never undersell yourself bc trust me people are happy to pay for excellence my friend!!!
