How Much Power Are You Losing w/ Smaller Batteries? Dyno Testing For Science 

4ah has 10 21700 cells. The 5ah has 20 18650 cells. Its massive.

The reason why Makita is making you buy a whole new platform is because these xgt tools have more power, run cooler, quieter and smoother, twice the run time literally every which way you slice it. That is something that the existing tools from Milwaukee and DeWalt can't even come close to doing they just get louder, heavier and more violent with the larger gigantic the battery you put on those old tools and they still can barely compete w a 4.0ah. If you use your tools every single day for real world applications not just testing you will see that Makita is by far the superior product for some of the reasons I listed above. Makita and Hilti truly are the best built tools in the market they don't win everything but that is the truth.

@@clarkfos3447 You meant to say "my opinion" when you said "the truth".

So ah, one thought I had during this portion of the video: An XGT wrench costs $240. A 5 Ah battery costs $280, and a 4 Ah costs $200. It's kind of a wash on cost, buying a new tool or buying a new battery. In LXT land, the 17Z is $200, and a BL1860B (which you didn't have to test) is $120, so less of a difference. My feeling is if you want more power, it's gonna cost, no matter what. oh also I use Milwaukee's 1" impact professionally sometimes, and it suuuuucks. Everything we use it on is about head height, and often vertical. Holding that much weight up and controlling it sometimes takes two people. It also frequently fails to bust loose nuts/bolts, requiring pry bars and ridiculous cheater bars. Not as in every other bolt, but at LEAST twice on any job we're using it for.

No surprise 5:23 told yo so, and I was surprised that you hadn't picked up on something this basic on power tools that the amp ratings will elevate more torque' if anything else is equal and your not circuit limited by some protection circuit. Was very surprised that your channel literally believed that there was no difference and amp rating had no impact.. even the "real tool reviews" dude with his Skidmore bench torque-rig, also had to conclude this after we debated it, though many years back.. - and have in mind' you dont have to guess what amp/wattage these tolls can take, for a channel like yours, it would be quite straightforward to purchase fx an 8 USD 150A ampmeter with incl. display for RC and DIY rig that in between the tool and the battery and here you would see what exactly is taking place hence voltage drop, and find the exact middlegroud for what amp rating is ideal for a certain tool, as I would be supprised if fx 1.5A and 2A batterypacks aint choking under load with these beefy impact wrenches. and if you wanna take it a step further, a current clamp + fx an oscillioscope would grap it out to what your heart desire.

We plan to revisit DeWalt battery types, yes. Although we expect the 6 and 8ah XR's with 21700 cells and their huge discharge rate would outpace the flashy flexvolts that have the eye catching 60V on the side so it would feel like its supercharging your 20V tool, but is really just more 18650's inside at 20V to your tool.

@@TorqueTestChannel the 6ah flexvolt is the only flexvolt with 18650 cell. The 9ah and 12ah use 21700 cells. While you're at it, can you test the Makita with dewalt or Milwaukee 21700 batteries using the battery adapter. It worked well for the ryobi so it might work well for the Makita as well.

From what ave eluded to... the flex volts could yield 60v if the tool was designed but at the imbalance of the pack. Possibly wearing it out faster

While your doing mid torque wrenches, how about a test of Dewalt's 894 mid torque wrench?

@@TorqueTestChannel have you guys revisited the Dewalt battery types yet?

Same here, in 10 years ive dropped heaps of makita batteries and only one has the yellow part break off. I used to have 2 fake batteries that looked genuine and they both have a broken case from a small drop.

This comment right here is on the money. 100% agree with you. I would trust a Makita battery over any of the other top brands in a fall. The plastic is not cheap at all. It is Polycarbonate. I like all brands but when it comes to build quality I think Makita has Milwaukee and DeWalt beat.

Just as an fyi to this the first two numbers of the battery serial number are the date code but there's a bunch of weird versions of the batteries cause I've seen newer ones without the gauge on them makita kinda tends to have a bunch of similar but different models of tools and can be a bit confusing If you don't know or look at the model numbers the amount of models for drills for example

I don't think you'll be saying that after he gets his hands on the new XGT platform.

@@clarkfos3447 It proves my point. If I wanted to gain more power with Makita tools then I would have to buy into a whole new line of tools. At least Flexvolt batteries can be switched between 20 and 60 volt tools.

@@Dale37 The 40v system isn't really about gaining more power. You can get every tool in 18/36v that is offered in 40v and the 40v tools don't out preform the 18vx2 tools by alot. The 40v system is for contractors who are looking to invest in the best power tool system available that offers everything they need with only one type of battery needed.

@@Dale37 Hey now Milwaukee and Dewalt have both made you change platforms twice already? Makita has been making LXT since 2005 and it's the only platform you can still use an lxt battery from 2021 on.. Maybe you haven't been using tools for very long I don't know but you obviously don't remember Milwaukee's V18 or Dewalt's lithium ion stick batteries? Hell flexvolt has only been around for about 6 years...

You don't need to use the 60V battery on a tool, but you CAN. I'm also curious about your last statement about upping the Amps... All they are doing is putting all of the cells in series instead of parallel. Now, in order to have a larger battery, instead of going from one, or two rows of 5 cells to three, you have to go to two rows of 10 from one row of 10. I mean, if it works for them and they make sales from consumers, great, but I won't be buying into that nonsense.

@@IceBergGeo right ! Power comes from cells x cell rating. So if you put 10 cells in parallel you'll get 10 x 25A = 250A x 3,7V = 925W. But 10 cells in series are 10 x 3,7V = 37V x 25A = also 925W maximum delivery. It might be a tiny advantage over the volts drop at the contacts. But as milwaukee shows 18V is enough and if the brand needs higher voltage its more or less their bad contacts on the tool. 21700 cells can deliver more amps over the surface area. So 10cells 21700's ARE stronger then 10 cells 18650's. Physics. Makita could go the 18V route on 21700s like mil does but instead they want to sell new tools to the user and combine the higher rate 21700s with that stupid 40V 'Max' (36V) bullshittery. So IMHO makita kicked itself out of the race. I'm sticking with Fein, DeWalt and Festool.

that's very interesting but I just need to know which one gone clap the hardest

I’d like that information as well, but in the real world it either performs or taps out. Knowing why might make it tunable?

I was thinking the same thing. They could take some small wires and slide them under where the battery connects and check the voltage pretty easily. Amp draw would be a bit more work. However if V=IR, couldn’t we just use voltage with the assumption resistance won’t change? Might not be a good assumption when things heat up though...

@@montestu5502 brushless "DC" motors are just 3-phase AC with power electronics. Math for that isn't just algebraic.

With the battery adapters for the different brands you could probably jumper in some leads to measure with a multimeter fairly easily the only issue may be is that some of the newer tool supposedly have some communication between tool and battery hence the various different contacts on the batteries as opposed to just the positive and the negative although that might just be for the charging. That being said if it was an issue then the battery adapters that work between brands wouldn't work so maybe its just more marketing wank. But I guess we would find that out as well if there's a discrepancy when tested

Haha home depot in Canada doesn't seem to stock the dewalt dcf899 but I found a store that did. The website was priced wrong, think it was $100 less than the price on the shelf. "Well I guess your getting a good deal" the customer service guy said with a frown 🤣

Wow, Makita must have your family held hostage, two-dozen batteries? What the heck for? Haven't you got a charger? Have you got 15 guys working for you?

@@Senkino5o I take advantage of their frequent sales when they are giving away double batteries. It isn't particularly difficult to get a bunch of batteries if you bide your time and watch the promotions. Sometimes you even buy a tool you don't need to get a double pack of batteries knowing that you can resell the tool a few months later for most of its value and keep the batteries. There are two types of people who pay lots of money for batteries; Contractors who can't afford down time and people who are too impatient to wait on sales. This applies to any major tool line. As for the "Don't I have a charger" comment..of course I do. However when doing a job and having many tools that use 2 batteries at a time. I don't want to be constantly swapping batteries and I want a charged one ready to go for any given tool I'm actively using. So for example I was building a shed and as such using my miter saw (2 batteries in use, 2 in the charger), my 36v circular (2 batteries in use, 2 in the charger), thee regular circular for finish cuts because I have better shit to do than constantly swapping blades (1 bat in use, 1 in the charger) 3 Impacts because I'm teaching my kids how to work ( 3 batteries in use, 3 in charger) and a regular drill ( 1 and 1 respectively). That alone accounts for 18 batteries in use at any given time on one project. So no having a couple dozen batteries isn't surprising or even unrealistic.

I agree. All I've got is about a dozen 5ah. And two 2ah. The only thing I use the 2ah for is the drywall screw gun because it's lighter to hold and doesn't need more power or runtime really. One battery in the tool. One on the charger ready to swap.

@@OmegaGamingNetwork not unrealistic? how often is someone using more than 1 tool at a time? but i will say your saws justify a fair bit, wouldnt say all 18 of those make sense lol

@@bradhaines3142 I am just describing how I typically work. As for using more than 1 tool at a time, that isn't really how I view it. Time spent swapping batteries around is time I could be doing something else. When I begin a project, I want everything at hand and ready to go. I don't want to be picking up a tool only to realize "Oh I gotta go grab batteries out of the other tool I was using". Especially since for all intents and purposes I have paid little to nothing for those batteries. Now again I'm not recommending someone run out and buy $1000 worth of batteries. That is of course absurd. However in only a couple of years I have accrued dozens of batteries by biding my time and patiently taking advantage of battery deals with tools that I either needed or could sell the bare tool for most of what I paid at a later date. I doubt I've spent more than a couple hundred directly on batteries. For me that is a stellar value in time and work because extension cords (good ones) aren't cheap either and frankly are just a pain to drag around. Now I would agree that most people don't need that many batteries and frankly I don't "need" them either. However I have them so I take advantage of them. Anyhow my only point was that getting this many batteries doesn't automatically make me some super contractor or someone throwing around huge amounts of money. I've built this collection up over years by being patient and taking advantage of makita's many sales. You can do the same thing with most of the other brands as well.

You got it

Right angle wrench is a beast as well.

Once he tests the right angle I'll probably get it, I've been contemplating it but haven't seen many reviews on it

The 2Ah battery does not allow you to use it on a tool like this. You would either have to cut off a stop pin on the battery or use a knock-off battery. Considering that the 2Ah batteries have had battery gauges on them since 2016 I am guessing this dude is using knock off batteries.

Don’t buy Makita from HD. The tools are different than you get at a pro center or online. As for the batteries, they are the same. You made a good purchase with your 6Ah batteries.

Not necessarily yes running for a longer time will produce more heat but its really depends on the load applied to the tool. But a small battery is not going to make more heat than a larger one because its mainly a function of the amount of current the battery can provide more cells can provide more current and therefore more watts which is more heat. its all just ohms lawe in a nutshell watts= amps* volts and since the tools are generally a common voltage like 18v you can keep that the same but the main factor to make more heat would be resistance or the ohm value which in a tool isn't as straight forward but generally more load equals more resistance and watts= (amps)^2 * resistance(ohm) since that is true amps are squared more amps will increase the heat or power in a tool given that the tool runs the same volts and the same resistance

Ive melted those adapters on a 18v dewalt sawzall. The ones i have are cool just likely not good for a hi amp tool

Makita makes a 6ah battery

@@ShopJock True they are sketchy

@@lewishein5731 Yes but I think they are also 18650 cells, so not any better at high current.

@@garycaruso4883 True, but if there are more 18650 cells in a battery the current demand on each cell is less, so the battery overall can supply more current. Seems like the world is heading to 21700s now anyway though.

We'll hit on it along with m12 right angle

@@TorqueTestChannel I'd be curious to see if there's much difference between the 1.5 and 2.0 12V packs, if you're going that far.

Makita has a 6AH. Hopefully they'll get one and give it a go.

I’m curious on that as well as what happens with a 9ah, but they don’t make them

30amps. Xgt is 40amps. Proven by the blade fuse inside the tools.

Think again... They are. they just use two "40V" batteries now. I think they needed a justification to make their oversight on larger battery sizes (21700 vs 18650) a seemingly better option instead of just going the way of MW or DW (larger cells and the ability to stick with just one battery instead of two,) and screwing their existing customers with the 18V X2 tools.

You beat me to the question. That is where I believe the difference lies between each battery pack. A motor and its controls don't care where it gets its 18 volts from and will perform the same as long as the 18 volts are delivered by the battery. However batteries as they are being used (or consumed) will drop in voltage that only a meter which can read 100ths of a volt or less could detect and reveal any minuscular drop in voltage.

@@corin164 Sorry, but nope. Voltage drop in batteries is in the Volt, not milivolt region while it's running under heavy load. If you've ever pushed the battery button when it's full, and then under load, the battery indicator may have dropped a bar (sometimes more) and that is a significant drop in voltage. (Remember, Li-Ion cells are 4.2 full and 3.2 "empty", so an "18V" tool is (should be) at 21V full and 16V "empty".)

Ughhh man I doubt they can activate the dyno. I've tried the 12v Milwaukee and found it utterly worthless. They don't even publish torque specs.

@@Hansengineering I mean they would most definitely read on the Dyno as it reads torque on the graph from 0 to an upper limit I don't know but so far about 1000 lb-ft, you can see that everytime one gets tested. And the 12v 1/4 create upwards of 40% of the torque that the 12v 3/8 and 1/2 subcompacts make. Milwaukee and DeWalt both publish their respective 1/4 impact specs in lb-in since the number looks bigger but if converted it amounts to a bit over 100 lb-ft. I was just trying to see how true to spec they really are and if one or the other is better.

I've yet to see any confirmation, but that would be interesting - basically be a XC8.0 or XR 8ah wired for 40V! Although still, Makita saying you gotta upgrade to our 40V tool system to see a boost in power again instead of making something like that for the widespread LXT line.

@@TorqueTestChannel You're literally testing a brand new, 18V, record-breaking mid-torque impact made by Makita in this video. They also came out with a new hammer-drill (XPH14) that shames Milwaukee's best.

@@TorqueTestChannel It's true, the XGT 4Ah uses 21700 cells. However I've seen tests on other channels that suggest that the 2.5Ah battery with 18650 cells is actually more powerful than the 4Ah 21700 cell battery, as confusing as this might sound. I've been wanting to build a prototype 18V 8Ah battery with 21700 cells for my Makita 18V tools just to see how it would perform but I'm still waiting for my spot welder from china that was supposed to be here months ago

@@MikadoRC I think I'm familiar with the tests you are referring to. Very interesting that the 21700 cell XGT batteries didn't outpreform their 18650 cell counterparts. Do you think it could have been because they were compared under no load?

Hard for me to think the 2.5Ah making more than the 4Ah has to do with anything other than the tool or battery electronics protection circuitry kicking in. I’ve only seen it observed on one XGT tool thus far, for the rest the 4Ah makes more as you would expect.

It will trip the breaker at 16-18 amps. And matobo htp does make that.

If u got a cord why not just use air at that point

@@hcgtiger4724 because I don't want to purchase a large air compressor and a ton of air tools. Plus airline is substantially bulkier than a cord and some people don't have room for an air compressor.

@@hcgtiger4724 yeah I'm not dragging a massive tank around if I don't need to

@@Aeroliten what are you plugging an extension cord into at that point then. and if youre talking bout home use corded impacts are way cheaper and stronger than a mid torque or high torque cordless impact. especially if you're buying adapters to use a cord...just sayin

You can send yours for him to test.

@@timothydillon6421 lol but I need it

It was our 1st video of this type (just keep in mind applies to M18 impact wrenches only) ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-ky5YRjz9lvc.html

In the end it's really just simple physics - bigger cells with newer technology rated for higher outputs --> less voltage drop while in use --> tool goes faster for longer.

I have some knock-off 9ah Makita compatible packs. They're pretty big, but they're fantastic in our mower. Not sure their C rating would beat the 6ah from Makita though, but I can run the mower for a pretty long time.

@@jeffbuck2624 The cell in the counterfeit battery is generally the best single cell 2ah, many counterfeit batteries are 1.3ah or 1.5ah

@@painkiller8079 I probably wouldn't call the ones I have counterfeit because they don't pretend to be actual Makitas... They're still holding up pretty well.. I still get at least 1.5 x the run time on my mower over the actual Makita 5ah batteries..Their big problem is, that they totally blew off trying to keep them the same size as the standard packs which means they are just to big to fit into some of the tools... The mower has a lot of room above the battery, so it's no problem, but the power head (weed whacker) and my vacuum don't have extra room above the battery so I can't use them without modifying the tool a bit.. I'm sure the batteries they put in are some of the cheapest, but they just put a whole bunch of them which seems to keep them from stressing too hard... I think that clearance issue is why we don't see an actual 18 volt 9ah battery from Makita... most tools work fine (like a drill just gets taller), but they don't want to release a battery that only works with most of their tools.. I'm sure I've got some cheap Chinese 18650's in there instead of Korean or Japanese batteries which just means that while my Makita batteries will still be working fine in 5 years, my "Makita compatible" batteries will be long since dead.

Thermal soak could be responsible for what you are experiencing.

@@Veritas-invenitur not familiar with that term will have to look into it. Thanks

Easiest way would be put 3 golf cart 6v batteries together in series for 18v. Lead acid can deliver huge amounts of amps and in this case would massively surpass the possible draw of the tool. It would be interesting to see.

I really don't see the point of putting the Makita 2Ah on a tool like this? It doesn't even say "high output".

Yes. Many!

Yes, I've seen videos that show Makita tools/batteries limiting themselves from burning up, while the Dewalt kept going until it started smoking. One more pro for Makita, longevity and reliability.

DeWalt XR batteries that are 6ah and 8ah would be date code 2019 and later

18650 does not have high output cells above 3Ah, so you can guess that it is 21700 without dismantling it.