How NOT to defend SVTFOE's Finale (Diregentleman) 

EDIT 14/05/20: Ok so this should probably go without saying but please don't attack/stop attacking Diregentleman. Even though I cannot take responsibility for the actions of thousands of people I have to make it clear attacking him does not benefit anyone and you are a fucking loser for doing so. I felt as if I should say something about this as one of the many who have made videos criticising the finale as well as the fact that Dire literally says he's issued a "call to action" for creators to weigh in. So if you think I shouldn't make this because it might be seen as punching down then just know that he ESSENTIALLY asked me to do it. Patreon - www.patreon.com/cartoonshi Twitter - twitter.com/cartonofshi My Discord Server - discord.gg/Q2AMHsB

getting punched in the face is unpredictable, but its certainly not good.

What Star did is like if Aang stopped fire lord Ozai by killing all fire benders.

Star didn't give other people a chance to beat Mina. She chose for them, and her choice was their death. Our hero, everyone!

he thinks that we are mad because we hate the show but in realty we are mad because one of our favorite shows got ruined by a horrible ending

The whole subversion = good thing is idiotic. A man walks into a restaurant and orders a steak. The chef comes out to the table, puts a plate on the table, climbs up on the table, squats over the plate, and finally, drops a deuce on the plate. "Hey, I ordered a steak!" says the man. The chef's reply, "That IS a steak, the one I ate for dinner last night." Just because the chef subverted the man's expectations of a steak, that doesn't mean he should EAT SHIT! Subversion does not equate to intelligence, creativity, or quality,

I still can’t get over the fact this show ended with star murdering possibly MILLIONS

“Mina was a terrible threat.” Exactly. She was terrible at being threatening. It was impossible to take her and her motives seriously. Edit: Where did all these likes come from?

Come on dude SVTFOE's ending was great, where else am I going to find an ending so bad it accidentally supports the holicaust. God that ending was awe inspiring (In the way that a tsunami that kills millions is awe inspiring).

So to stop a genocidal villain, you need to be a genocidal hero? I'm sorry, was there a good guy at some point? Because this seems like a no-win situation.

"Star's massacre was utilitarian." Right, so I guess Hitler was utilitarian during WW2.

I’ve seen fan-fiction that has more consistent characters, motives and tone than the final Season of Star vs the forces of evil. Plus fanfics are usually made out of love and appreciation of a thing put out for other people to enjoy for free..... not like paid writers whom writing is their job.

Last time I was this early, Toffee was still alive.

_SVTFOE:_ We only got 4 Seasons from the network and had to rush our ending! ;-; _Avatar the Last Airbender:_ *Only needed 3 Seasons* _Gravity Falls:_ *Only needed 2 Seasons* _Over the Garden Wall:_ *Only needed 10 episodes*

Ah yes, two overused words, that in recent years, have come to annoy me.... "Subversive" "Revolutionary"

Star committing genocide isn’t the only problem I had with the finale. When Star said she was going to destroy the magic because her tapestry said she would, I thought “Oh, I see. They THINK they have to destroy magic, but then they find another way because part of the show is about Star ignoring fate and whatnot.” But no. She actually destroyed magic. Simply because fate told her to. All of her powers that everyone kept saying were the strongest in Mewni, all of the time she took to learn how to control her magic, all of the times she was told to choose her future, ALL of it ended up being pointless.

One thing this guy misses about the finale, a sort of critical point in all of this, the writers were the ones who made all the decisions. The writers were the ones who made Mina the end villain. The writers were the ones who decided that the magical armour was practically indestructible. The writers were the ones who gave Mina an entire army of indestructible warriors. Destroying the magic was the only way to save everyone specifically because the writers made it that way. The entire finale screams that the writers started with the subversive twists of "let's destroy the magic", and then worked backwards from that, strong-arming the characters and pulling motivations out of left-field to fit into their end goal.

The counter argument of Star committing genocide because it stopped Mina from committing genocide is one of the most brainless things I’ve heard. Its like “I beat Hitler, the nazis and the Soviet Union, how you may ask? Well I killed all Germans and Russians duh.”

"Mina was a terrible threat" She got defeated by a T-SHIRT CANNON in the intro

“Don’t like, don’t watch,” is such a stupid comeback for criticism. Like do you think I would have watched this show for 5 seasons(made a mistake, it’s 4) if I didn’t like it? No, I’ve dropped shows and other series before when they become terrible or just stupid. Only reason I stuck with Star till the end was because I still enjoyed some of the characters and I had wanted to see them get a good end. I’m sorry if I was disappointed with a show that you love but I’m not going to stop saying or thinking that Star’s was the most garbage ending I’ve ever seen and that I could probably write a better story and ending than what was written. There are so many other people who could do this! God, it’s a real shame that Disney advertised this as the “first show created and directed by a woman” to ‘inspire’ other girls. Honestly, as a woman and writer myself, I often find myself thinking that Disney really should’ve kept the number of women creating shows on their channel down to 0 if they weren’t going to take it seriously and just use the female creator as an achievement trophy. A piece of media can have flaws - nothing is perfect, but you can’t just ignore the flaws that are *fatal* and call people haters for calling it out.

I seriously don't understand how Star erasing all magic is even comparable to the Avengers reversing the snap. The latter endangers a small number of people to save half the universe. The former outright kills an unknown, yet large number of potentially unique beings to save a small number of people. If anything, it's more comparable to the actual Thanos snap... which honestly should speak volumes.

Did this guy forget that Thanos was the VILLAIN in Endgame? Probably not the best comparison if you want to defend Star.

"Normal world physics dont apply to SVTFOE so the earth would be fine" *plays footage of earth in chaos and people running around terrified*

I just want to point out the fact that in the AMA post, she wrote “So, I wrote an ending.” That’s literal proof that this ending was rushed, because she didn’t write it beforehand. If you’re making an TV show, Movie, Book, or other professional form of media, it’s a BARE MINIMUM standard that you have your storyline mapped out before you release it to the public eye. You can’t write an ending for your ongoing story with a single season left if you hadn’t had an actual conclusion in mind since before you started. It’s one thing to change the ending and tweak it, but you can’t just BS an unsatisfying ending and blame it on the network for only giving you four seasons!!

I think Red's (Overly Sarcastic Productions) thoughts on subverting expectations puts it best. If you show a room full of people and then blow it up, you've shocked your audience. If you show a room full of people and say a bomb is going to blow up in 10 minutes, you've earned 10 minutes of suspense. If you show a room full of people and say a bomb is going to blow up and then someone gets stabbed by a clown, you don't "win" just because you did something unexpected.

So Mina was a threat who would commit genocide....so star committed genocide to stop her... What's the purpose of stopping genocide by genocide again?

Didn’t this guy make a whole video criticizing The Roundtable for brushing aside the genocide committed by the Diamonds? Now he’s doing the same thing with SvTFoE?

Star is a villain now. That's a fact.

How on earth can that finale be defended? The writers of Star Wars: Ros would be shocked at how craptastic the plotting was. And the characters were awfully dealt with. At least Rey was a consistent Mary Sue!

One more thing that completely bothered me about the finale was how star had the idea to destroy the magic and didn't even considered other options. Moon and eclipsa wanted to put their differences aside and combine their powers to fight the solarian army and I was totally hyped. But then star I immediately like "No! We have to destroy magic all together.". Such a waste of opportunities.

I just thought of something. Star can turn a spying spell into a portal spell momentarily and recreate all magic after toffee messed it up. Eclipsa can create a spell to kill monsters that can regenerate from any body part and finished her mother's most dangerous spell. Two of the greatest magical prodigies of the butterfly family should be able to make a spell that can deal with the solarian warriors

I love those arguments made defending this show by saying stuff like "the characters' actions are realistic/relatable!" Yes, I know that there are some dumb teens out there who lead on the feelings of other teens, but I don't think that makes what Marco did to Kelly qualify as "good writing"

Also also, wait a second, doesn't everything in Mewni run on magic? Don't monsters need magic to live?

And when I think people cant get even more stupid, I see someone defend the svtfoe finale. Why?

Thinking the finale is fine is ok, but specifically stating that you want to change peoples minds so they don’t hate it comes of as kind of manipulating, but more or so “you’re opinion is wrong” As an example I loved Future’s finale, but I know Cartoonish doesn’t. I accept that, he doesn’t have to. In fact, he made some pretty good points in his review, and I agree it could have been done better even if I hold it highly. I go along with my day, but may leave a few points that may be worth checking over and reviewing again for clearer view. That’s fine, it’s just criticism. It’s *understanding* where someone comes from with an open mind and not making a big deal out of it. Blatantly saying that someone needs to change their mind is pretty strong indications of manipulation or trying to control someone’s mind. It’s a terrible thing to do, especially when considering some other extremes that don’t involve cartoons and tv shows that could lead people to actually get hurt, not just emotionally.

star ended horrendously, in fact the whole season was an absolute mess. it wasted too much time worrying about starco, gave ludo the shaft and de-railed both star's and moon's characters. it would be more reasonable if after cornonation mina was revealed to have been breaking in the monster temple, stealing the wand to make the solarian warriors. it would've gave resolution to the plot point of dark magic being used in the temple and would've made for a more believable twist .

Jackass Star defender, "I know you told me not to keep using big words.." Me, "Pathos has only 6 letters, you dithering involuted blatherskite."

What pissed me off the most was how her decision to destroy magic was basically "you know what? Magic sucks, lets get rid of it" without even thinking of the consequences that would come with that and how everyone just went along with it.

Hulk specifically wishes for them to come back SAFELY. so. they wouldn't materialize in the sky or a wall

My issue with the ending (well season 4 honestly) was that it made me feel like I wasted my time for the ENTIRE show. I have never felt more insulted by the ending of a show. Absolute horse shit.

My whole stick with the ending was the "Magic bad must destroy". So tired of this, so characters apparently think that without magic evil can't find another way to cause mass destruction?

I have seen people trying to defend worst things, so this doesn't surprise me.

How did Marco survive being IMPALED by the Unicorn? They draw attention to it when he zips up his hoodie to hide the fact he was IMPALED....And it's never addressed.

That show ended poorly. Usually shows that are popular like that just kinda flop at the ending and make everyone mad.

Even in Endgame, Tony specifically tells Bruce to put everyone back safely. This was also confirmed in an interview, people in the sky landed to their closest relative position to the ground, people wouldn't appear in the same point in space as other people, etc. So even if Dirementalgen had a point in comparing the two franchises (which he didn't) it wouldn't matter because the Russos and Marvel actually thought through their implications, whereas the people behind Cleaved didn't.

I've seen people defend fanboy and chum, sanjay and Craig and breadwinners and they did a better job than this guy

The thumbnail looks like you are wearing Star's hair as a wig.

Listening to him speak is soooooo annoying. He reeks of "Imma use big words to sound smart and talk down to others" energy.

I never watched SVTFOE, I wanted to but I don't think it's for me, but telling people you shouldn't critize shows because it's mean and opinions on a show isn't nice because "people like the show too" and you don't want people to be mean to something you like, but people have OPINIONS, negative or not. Also Cartoonshi keep up the good work!

I GUESS NEFCY *FORGOT*

Oh boy, I can’t wait for Owl House to end with Luz casting a spell that obliterates all magic rendering all world building to be completely pointless. Because that’s totally how you’re supposed to end a show like that, right?

"Star vs is a story about Mewni wizards intended for children" -Biltrick Baggems

Ah yes, the "everyone that criticized this show/episode are all crybabies" argument

The worst part about the Endgame comparison is that Hulk wished for everyone to return **safely**, not exactly where they got blipped. Hulk avoids the problem Star faces by using his brain. Yay.

This channel keeps getting better and better

Star: We can live on the same planet, Marco! Let’s celebrate! Marco: yeah, let’s invite Kelly over for nachos! Star: about that...

Considering that the people on Earth didn't know about the monsters, Mewmans, etc. can you imagine how they would react to one of the monsters coming up to them or something? They would either try to defend themselves (probably killing/harming the monster) because they thought that it was dangerous and going to kill them. Can you imagine if scientists got a hold of the monsters? Not to mention the monsters that look similar to animals that are hunted (bears, deer, rabbits, etc). Humans would probably treat the monsters way worse that how the Mewmans treated them.

My first thought of the ending we: *"I have no doubt millions of people died"* , I have no doubt some dangerous monsters like that giant ass spider were killing humans, in the other hand, racist mewmans are still a thing, that was not resolved, now, add that to regular humans who have access to weapons, to atomic nuclear weapons at that, there is no way a war is not going to happen within a few months. Like, I wouldn't have overthink like that if not for the fact that in the plot, genocide of monsters, wars based on racism, and colonialism, is a thing, the history will repeat itself, why the heck did they not thought about that?

Not only did Star committed genocide she causing havoc for 2 worlds by having them merge AFTER the genocide

The difference vetween what Thanos did and what Star did was that the entirety of Endgame was focused on Thanos' actions, whereas at no point in the finale Star's genocide gets aknowledged, aside from a 3 seconds gag with the high comission

Here's something that makes the "subverting expectations" even dumber: the audience was aware that it would happen! Several episodes ago, the protagonists discuss that they would have to destroy magic. The audience response wasn't shock, It was just "that is stupid, don't do that". Not helping matters is how unthreatening mina was, the fact that a pony took her down immediately being the last straw and led to fans arguing the many, many better ways to finish the show or the final battle. Therefore, I don't understand why he thought the show had a great ending for subverting expectations considering people were already aware of the possibility, the only reason people were surprised was because season 4 was so bad

Yeah, I'm sure nothing will go wrong as a result of merging a monarchy with a democracy.

Innocent Magic Creature: “IT IS GOOD DAY TO BE NOT DEAD” Star: “POW! YOU ARE DEAD”

A heart attack is unexpected, but i don't think it should be praised.

17:36 looks like you're having a bit of trouble with that cube there, buddy.

Me, hugging Gravity falls, Adventure time and Steven universe: You guys did your best and I love you for it, because nobody's perfect and you are all special to me. Star vs: Staring from the corner Me: Just the three of you-

The problem with this ending was it was obviously rushed. You could tell they were trying to throw in 2-3 seasons into 1 episode. As you also said, they did a poor job explaining plot holes, loose threads and why the loss of magic was necessary, something I think they could have solved with another 2-3 seasons. I honestly started losing interest in the series after they killed off Toffee.

I actually spoke with Diregentelmen the other day. I tried to explain to him that the problem with Star’s decision is that she doesn’t seem to give much thought to the other beings in the multiverse that are going to be affected by magic being destroyed. It’s mostly just woes me, I’m not gonna see my new boyfriend who I just recently hooked up with ever again. That conversation ended with him doing the predictable thing of hiding behind the shield of subjectivity, saying you have your opinion and I have mine. Neither of us are right or wrong.

14:50 in endgame the actually snapped so people would safely comeback meaning people who may have died from coming back from nowhere were actually fine. So his comparison with endgame does not even make sense

Putting a razor blade in my salad is subverting my expectations, but it's not something I'm gonna applaud you for.

7:00 add that the finale of MLP Friendship is Magic, the ending was cliche af but the execution of it was decent enough that they manage to make the whole comunity happy

"Star vs the Forces of Evil has the most radical themes of any kids cartoon this decade". Laughs in Gravity Falls and Legend of Korra

Star laughed at her own daughter's death, and yes Star called First Born her daughter I know Star was under the magic amnesia spell but still, that scene of Star laughing First Borns skeleton after she saved her from the evil unicorn left a bad taste in my mouth First Born deserved better

Finally someone is talking about this guy. I thought he made sense at one point but the more I listened to him talk the more I realized that's all he really does; *talk*

Ah yes Diregentleman, the "professional writer" who's only work of merit is a podcast the piece of media that does not need a script

The worst part about star vs is that the final obstacle/villain are characters we’ve liked for a while LIKE ANOTHER SHOW COUGH Steven Universe Future COUGH

Notice how he keeps saying "children's cartoon." … Yeah I don't need to say more. Also Shi, if you have to constantly putting on an act for your criticism video's, I think you're going to have a mental breakdown at some point. Overexaggerating is fine, but maybe not to a point where you're a completely different person? Just a tip, do with it whatever you like.

Wait . In end game... Killing a bunch of ppl for "good"....was the bad thing. Something the villan was trying to do. Hu .....

What I find funny is that Ryan Johnson, the guy who made The Last Jedi, aka "SuBvErSiOn Is GoOd WrItInG", also made knives Out. Knives Out being a movie implementing one of, if not the best expectation subversions in movie history, by having the movie change from a "whodunnit" to a "hide the evidence" story, in a way that changes the story for the better by allowing us to get all the information that "whodunnit"s require in an engaging way, as the protagonist tries to hide the clues. If Ryan Fucking Johnson is better at taking criticism and using it to improve his work, you know your writing skills ain't worth shite. Check out movieswithmikey's video on knives out, AFTER the movie itself though. An uplifting redemption story for a hated writer to help cope with all the terrible writing nowadays.

When my unfinished fanfic is better than ending of the show.

"I used the Genocide to stop the Genocide!" - Star in the finale

his ending might of been rushed but at least it did't cut to fade credits

Who cares about story structure or characters, I liked it therefore it is objectively good and you can't criticize it! This kind of attitude is the bane of good writing

I legitimately can not believe he made a call to action for other creators on this. Like wow.

Wait a second... Mass murder happens for no reason... The main antagonists defeated in the lamest way possible... years of world building, character development, and plot progression flushed down the toilet... defenders say it's good because it "subverts expectations".... THIS IS JUST THE GAME OF THRONES ENDING!!!

I would also like to point out the "If you don't like it, don't watch it" argument is also weak about his argument about trying to change opinions about shows. Yes, if you are interested in a show then lost interest and do not want to continue watching, that is up to them. But telling someone that, "Oh well if you are negative about it, then you must hate it, so you have no business giving valid critics about it" does nothing to help others seek out the show and form their own opinion of it as well. I will openly admit I am not a big fan of She-Ra and the Princesses of Power, but I will say I tried to watch the show for what it is and give legitimate reasons as to why I felt it could have been better. And even for a series that I do like, like Miraculous, I can see where people will have legitimate arguments about the show, and yet, they get bashed for thinking they hate it and don't understand what they see. There is a difference between hating something just to hate it and having valid reasons to be disappointed if something we put time and energy to get invested in turns out not as what we hoped. Heck, there is a difference between hating something just to hate it and being furious when the show decides to spit in the face of its viewers. But telling someone to not watch it if we don't like it robs any good show the opportunity for discussion and healthy debates about what did and did not work for a story. (Sorry for the rant, I just hate that argument so much as it also detracts potential viewers)

Also, the directors explained later that when the hulk brought everyone back from the snap, he made sure to bring everyone back and place them in a safe place, and yes while it’s kinda stupid that wasn’t explained in the movie the explanation is at least feasible. This is the worst defense of a terrible finale I’ve ever seen.

SVTFOE problems started with the main villian being Mina. She shouldnt have been the main villain which Moon or hell even Marco would be even better. There were things that pointed to something bigger in earlier seasons only to be ignored in season 4 for Marco and Star love story. I am a fan of SVTFOE however I will never defend the finale.

"Not even three minutes in and I'm already making a reference to a three some " A new sex joke records

This guy knows that plot of Endgame was to UNDO a genocide right? Not to justfiy it?

"Scooby fuckin Doo understands this" is now my favorite thing you've ever said

Star be like: "I used the mass genocide to stop the mass genocide."

Star committing mass genocide ultimately cements her as this awful person who would kill billions for the greater good, an atrocious misdeed only rivalled by Discord when he chose to pose as Grogar.

"Sorry for the rushed ending" At least you apologized for it 😕

I got annoyed at the fact that somebody would literally try to defend genocide with such horrible arguments.... Time to go watch something wholesome like erm... Hermitcraft? Seems like a good idea. How can people be so stupid!?

I mean she literally killed the Magic High Commission and that in itself is something I can't forgive

5:16 "some of you may die. But it's a sacrifice I am willing to make!" I can't with that quote!!!!!!

I've seen an extremely similar twist to Moon's in the finale of My Little Pony which came out the same year as Cleaved, as a reformed omnipotent Chaos Lord wanted to prepare the anxious main character to become queen and help her gain more confidence so he disguises as an ancient villain to rally other villains together into fighting her. The reason for that twist working better than Moon's is because it's in character for the Chaos Lord to plan these kind of schemes (tho well intentioned this time) since he used to be a villain, and being (at the time) omnipotent, he planned to magically fix everything in case things went out of control (which they did, of course, since this Chaos Lord has always been pretty overconfident in his omnipotence) But Moon was supposed to be the stern but wise mother, not this petty, selfish and short-sighted idiot and both Dire and Nefcy should have addressed it more.

Cleaved is the type of finale that I legitimately can’t see anything of value in. Even SU had some merit to its garbage ending. Star’s meanwhile is on a whole new level of not giving a shit, and I do think less of the show overall because of it, something I normally don't think is fair even for lame finales (like SU).

I've actually though about making a proper SVTFOE finale because of the unsatisfactory one we got (Mine doesn't involve genocide if you're wondering)