How Pinball Influenced Sonic 

Makes sense for sega to make their mascot pinball-like when the first thing they did as a company was make pinball machines for the military in the 50s

There's one video of the channel Technology Connections where the host explain how electromechanical pinball machines work behind the scenes, and while he was explaining I couldn't stop to notice every little thing I recognized from Sonic games: obviously you had the bumpers, but also there was those automatic launchers (dash pads), the rubber strings that pushed the ball to the opposite direction. The most interesting part were the sound effects. Like, that was a machine from the 70's, but many of the sound effects of the table sounded very similar to Classic Sonic games. Now I understand why the games play the "CHA-KING" sfx when it ends the score tally, that's the score tally sound effect used in old pinball machines!

Understanding the gameplay philosophies of each Sonic game gives a more clear way of identifying what makes a Sonic game fun. I would define high-speed platforming is the use of movement systems inspired by fast moving objects like pinballs, skateboards, vehicles to skip conventional and vertical platforming to maintain your flow state. Sonic 1 - Sonic Adventure is inspired by pinball. It uses pinball as a movement system that is used to skip conventional platforming other mascots like Mario and Crash woulf have to meticulously go through. Sonic Adventure - 06 is inspired of skateboarding. Sonic Adventure maintains some pinball DNA but the main focus in that game is to do tricks off inclines like in skating games. In Adventure 2 they went all in adding rail grinding and tricks. Boost games are inspired by racing games. To no ones surprise boost games are meant to simulate a racing game and using the movement system to seamlessly move through platforming. I personally have no issue with new additions like rail grinding, tricks and the boost however they shouldn't take away the core appeal of the original Sonic games which is using pinball physics to gain and maintain speed. Not that games without momentum are bad (even Unleashed is my favourite game) but like rail grinding in SA2 it should be moulded to fit with the momentum based gameplay the more pinball games are going for. The reason many people still like SA2 even though it completely dropped the pinball like gameplay is because it still falls in line with the momentum based platforming the pinball games are going for.

Dude made an entire video about Pinball and didn't once play 3D Pinball Space Cadet, an absolute crime lol. Anyone who used Windows XP would have a ton of Pinball experience from this gem of PEAK Windows XP gaming.

If the roll lock is similar to the pinball moving by nothing but gravity, then the ability to move midair in Sonic CD is like nudging the table for the slightest bit of control. Now that is a stretch. But nudging in pinball feels just as different as the lack of roll lock in a classic sonic game. I thought that was a funny parallel. Enlightening talk as usual. Especially that part about automation. You give meaning to games in a way very few people do.

bro is getting through every video idea to get away from having to do the Lost World, Boom, and Forces videos

Given SEGA's arcade roots, it makes sense. It's ironic that when Sonic went 3D, not only it lost the pinball fundamentals in the physics, but you look at the attempted pinball table levels on Adventure, Heroes and Generations DLC, and you realize they couldn't even make those work properly. The other irony? 3D Blast still had pinball physics before they tossed it from Adventure onwards.

Not the video I expected, but definitely one that I find fun! Another thing I find fun is that Ryan Drummond, the original English VA for Sonic (Sonic Adventure to Sonic Heroes), is a HUGE fan of pinball. I wonder if he knows? I'm gonna have to think about this for a minute. I've always known that pinball was deeper than it appeared, but I was never any good at it.

the murder of rail grinds shall not go unoticed i hate how people say rail grinding post -heroes is better "because it isnt buggy" even tho its worse mechanically i guess their mindset for "bug-fixing" mechanics is to make them shallow instead of yknow being more consistently functional

23:27 Best part of the video, not only it shows how you're supposed to play Final Rush properly, but it also explains why it works so well, aaa, nice

11:15 This applies with knux in the same game as well, timing your glide start along with hitting an enemy/box results in much greater heights

Dang this actually makes me appreciate the roll lock. Great stuff!!!

sonic spinball can actually be kinda fun when playing on fast mode, at least in my opinion

True sonic gamers understand the balls!

We need more Sonic Tubers like him, like everyone just have the same and don't bring anything interesting to discuss about, for example just today a RU-vidr MrNeedlemouse, is talking about Sonic Unleashed and ok it is good but everyone have already a video talking about how good Unleashed is, still, there are many videos about Sonic in RU-vid that is pretty hard to find something different

There is a cool Sonic Fan Game no one remembers called Sonic Pinball Panic, it is basicly a pinball game based around the idea of What if Sonic had an official real Pinball table back in the 90's and its really fun.

As someone who got into pinball through Sonic, I can't tell you how excited I was to see this video. It was great seeing you really go in depth about all the great things with pinball as a genre. It also got me appreciating that classic Sonic design even more so than I already did. Gosh, it's kind of wild that it was Sonic Adventure's pinball tables that got me into this, considering the... not great pinball physics, but it was with the Nights pinball table there that really got me realizing tables can have some kind of objective for you to shoot for. Which of course got me looking into other pinball games like Sonic Pinball Party which really sealed the deal for my love of the genre. I want to gush even more about this stuff, but it'd pretty much be repeating what you said in the video. I'm just real happy that you've also come to appreciate the genre after years of not really considering it.

90s: Pinball 2000s: Skating/Parkour 2010s: Racing 2020s: Breath Of The Wild

Thats actually a pretty cool video. I think that 3D sonic has a flawed automation because generally speaking when the sections appear there's only one way to go trought, so when the player does it wrong the game doesn't know how to process the action and bugs or in the worst cases it lets the player into a bottomless pit. But that could be solved by using the multilayer path tecnique, so if the player fails the imput or the speed requierement then it could have a punishment by throwing him to the lower path. That was very interesting. Good video.

Man I wish some Sega developers binge watch your videos someday, so many useful insights they should had.

You never fail to make me realize things I never knew before. Great video.

I mean, he rolls into a ball. It's only logical.

great vid, great point I think if the first Sonic is Mario X Pinball, then starting with the second, they made it Mario x Pinball x Goku x A motorcycle. And now things have swung to the Goku x Motorcycle end of the spectrum. Sonic 2 being the best most perfectest game, I think we need to aim for a perfect configuration of all four of those elements. This is somewhat tongue in cheek, but I kind of think this.

I always enjoyed pinball machines when local arcades were a thing here, but what made me realize that it had objectives and how precisely you have to be to reach high scores was Pokemon Pinball for the Gameboy Color, catching pokemon, evolving them, turning on lights to make multipliers appear... It made pinball games so much enjoyable!

Mario + Pinball = 3 foot anthropomorphic blue hedgehog. Makes sense.

Pinball was my dad's game when he was growing up, so we played pinball video games together early on. Pin Bot (NES) was the one we played together the most.

This was actually really informative. I'm amazed at how in-depth your videos are!

Wow, I had no idea people had no idea how to play pinball. I always thought it was quite intuitive that you had to aim the ball at specific places. Seems like a no-brainer to me.

I guess the fact that a lot of the Sonic gameplay is just about watching the hedgehog run is also taken from pinball, where you watch the ball go until it goes back to the flippers again.

Hell yeah, current grind rails suck so bad, bring back something akin to the SA2 grinding with actual physics.

So glad you touched on pinball in relation to Sonic. It’s SO fundamental to the game that whenever people say that Sonic doesn’t need those things, it lets me know that they truly don’t understand it’s game design

Fuck Sonic, Cha-La-Head- Cha la, Rest in power Akira-Sensei 🖤🐉

*applause*

Hi Pariah, I've been watching many of your videos in these last months, and something that impresses me is that despite many of your viewers being sonic fans, your videos on other franchises still have a lot of attention. Would you say that you have a method to follow in order to accomplish that? Because that seems like a dream come true for many people who'd like to cover many types of videogame franchises and genres, such as me lol. Great video and congrats on your channel btw

One of your best videos to date, man. Love to see it

I was one of those people who never really cared about pinball. I always thought it was too random and I hated the lack of control you get over the ball. Then when I played Sonic Spinball it kind of changed my mind. I was so invested in making it to the top of the board. I realized that every Sonic game was essentially playing pinball while controlling a ball that had legs. I feel like some game styles are an acquired taste...and you have to be exposed to it under the right circumstances to get you invested.

I see the automation in the adventure games more as a breather to let you get prepared for the next segment and to convey sonic's speed while the rails serve the purpose of Classic Sonic automation I do think having proper rail mechanics back would be great but I am not hugely bothered by automation in general unless it fucks me up while I try to do little time attack skips or is outright broken and gets me killed Great video as always Pariah

Pinball games is such a classic masterpiece, we all really enjoyed playing pinball games just for scoring and it's so difficult to master ngl

I played Spinball back in the day. The options theme may have been grating, but the actual game was quite fun. A combination of actual pinball and Sonic. I'm kinda surprised you didn't mention that game here. And I've played actual pinball before too.

Very interesting video glad to see aswell he acknowledges the automation all over the series too

This guy is like a sonic philosopher or something

Pariah, after you tried and learned pinball and discovered its impact on the Sonic games, did you have any thoughts about possible mechanics and gimmicks that could be added to the Sonic series that would make the games better and more fun?

I think the elemental shields might be a closer analogy to the modes since they fundamentally modify how the "ball" functions while they are "active". Someone is going to platform differently when they can dash forward at will, or when there is a multi-ball in effect. I wonder if the Chaos Effects in Superstars might also be similar therein.

I used to play a lot of pinball, but i have not play it in years, i think that if i tried again, i would have to learn it from the beginning... Which sounds really fun!!! Im going to be playing some pinball today!!!

I'd be interested to see a video on your views of Sega Technical Institute, the people behind Sonic 2 and 3 and what their legacy of games were like similar to the Sonic Team portfolio video that you reviewed.

Pariah pinball stream when? Jokes aside I really did not think about it like that, I really enjoyed this video

Is there anything you noticed in your experience playing pinball that Sonic *didn't* incorporate into its design that would be cool to see in Sonic?

When I first bought my Sega Genesis only game I could play with it was Sonic Spinball as I was still a teenager living with my parents. Once I understood the gameplay, I was able to play many other type of pinballs.

Pariah I would like to ask, do you think the reason Sonic struggled to realise himself in 3D because there isn't really a 3D version of pinball ?. Taking all the elements of pinball that made the classics fun and taking them to 3D must have been a daunting task at the time.

We need sonic fan game devs to see this and make pinball based 3d sonic fan games. Plus the pinball combat that this guy suggested for boss stages, do that as well.

I've actually been doing some of these moves in Pinball for years now. Like keeping the ball from falling off the flipper to control it a bit more and trying to time when I hit the ball. I'm not always successful, but it's still fun. I've been playing real pinball machines lately and I really enjoy myself when I do. But yeah Pinball in relation to Sonic, I can see all of that and not just in the Pinball levels. Though ironically I usually hate Pinball levels in Sonic games, due to lack of control and getting bounced around when I'm just trying to get through the level lol.

As someone who dislikes automation a lot and _vehemently_ despises the Dreamcast era (and a good part of the boost era)... ...Honestly I can see what you mean with the rails. I _love_ rails in JSR (the side of the Dreamcast lineup that I actually *love* everything about), and it's got the same sort of thing going on where your speed going in severely affects how you initially grind on it. I will say though, I _never_ liked leaning in the way Sonic handled rails then. Like yeah, sure, it adds more "engagement" by forcing you to do stick inputs mid-rail, but ESPECIALLY with how terrible the camera is in these games, and the fact that the directions you're supposed to hold on the stick are relative to wherever the camera _feels_ like facing, it just feels like a needless, janky, poorly-implemented mechanic that just BLOATS up something that would've otherwise been really simple (like in JSR). Like, the second the camera decides to randomly face the wrong direction, or the rail turns in a weird way, your directional input is _suddenly_ going to be wrong and you're going to lose all your speed due to something unrelated to actual physics or momentum and it just KILLS the game feel completely.

- Okey, hear me out (applies only to 3rd sonic games): 1. Dash Panels: Sets a specific amount of speed upon touching them, this speed "gain" disappears in few seconds. Fix: Adds up a specific amount of speed upon touching them... Example: Touching them at 80km/h adds you 80km/h, this makes you travel at 160km/h. those added 80km/h (speed gain) disappear in 10s when walking on a plane surface. But, touching dash panels at 30km/h adds you only 30km/h... 10km/h adds you only 10km/h and so on. Additional fix to this mechanic: Spindashing super near them would give you nothing. This decision would prevent cheesing the boost pannels. 2. Springs: Launches you in a specific direction with a specific speed. Fix: Launches you in a specific direction and adds up speed depending on the speed you touched them. 80km/h makes you 160km/h fast 10km/h makes you 20km/h fast Springs that are angled upwards could take you to a higher area depending on your speed. Touching another upwards angled spring after a spring that made you 160km/h fast would make 320km/h fast, which would make you go even higher. This would give the level designers more opportunities to create a multilayered level design which would make the level design better. But, the speed gain from those springs would smoothly vanish in 10seconds when walking on a plane surface just to not make the level design too much depending on this spring speed gain mechanic. Additional fix: Spindashing near them would again result no speed gain. I am saying "on place surface,, bc it would result a false gravity feel when going upwards or downwards. Going downwards should give you more speed and going upwards should make you slower. So, the speed gain from springs/dash panels would work like this: Walking: Going upwards - speed gain vanishes in less then 10seconds. The more upwards the slope goes, the faster the speed gain vanishes. Plane surface - vanishes in 10s. Going downwards: speed gain doesn't vanish until you walk on a plane surface. The game's physics would naturally make you faster when you go downwards, so vanishing the speed gain would make the gravity look weird. Slowing down (holding the S button in WASD function) would almost instantly vanish the speed gain from the springs or dash panels, even when going downwards. I said ?km/h just for this explanation. It can be meters/h, m/s or whatever you want. If you made it this far, then I'm thankful to you :D

This was awesome!

Cool Video!

Will you make a video about your opinion on the modern uekawa redesigns I know that you like the redesign and thought one of their factors were actually improvement over the classic design But Still you kinda perfer The classic design which I want to know why that was your take on them in a video about your opinion This is gonna be a fun Arguing if we don't face classic or modern fanboys I always hated these guys

Fascinating, kinda makes me want to ply pinball, and as always Sonic :)

Hey pariah, do you have any opinions about Sonic IDW Comics? I really want to hear what you have to say about it.

I need that ian flynn video pariah

I agree on everything

14:09 Rare Pariah Metroid mention Surprised you never really touched upon this series by the way I think you’d love it.

the pariah is speaking, class is in session

Loops don't work in Sa2, right? If you mod in a loop without automation, the janky physics won't allow you go throught them, but the grind rails have loops and they work perfectly fine

Out of all the classic Sonic games, which one(s) would you say adheres to this pinball design the most/best?

I read the decription. You do know that in Sonic Spinball you can speed up the game in the settings so it can run less shitty?

there's a video by a channel called gaming birb that's called " A Short Analysis on Automation in Sonic Games " posted 6yrs ago its good watch it talks about scripting in sonic games and how most of it is made to simulate environment interaction in the 2d games they also used a mod for gens that removes set scripting and shows ho duct-taped the game is even the classic sections

Just make a reimagined Sonic Spinball (so no SatAM/Archie characters and no mentioning Mobius).

"Physics" only works with 2D in the right way. SA and SA2 are linear to make usage of physics, basically it's almost give a gold to a poor farm. After more than 15 years of experience, too me, Sonic was made only for 2D and the right usage of physics to exploration only works with 2D Sonic (Sonic was created to be 2D after all).

We learn something new about the Genesis era of Sonic games every day. The people who developed those early Sonic games certainly knew what they were doing which is not something that can be said for the current Sonic Team.

I've always liked pinball, but I was never a huge enthusiast and have only played on a physical machine fairly recently. However, in a lot of ways, I've always considered pinball the godfather of video games since a lot of arcade principles originated from pinball. Simple but intuitive controls, short but replayable, emphasis on risk/reward, being hard at first but as you learn you get into a flow state, etc. Heck, I think part of the reason why Sega games are so appealing is that they've always had that arcade philosophy.

That was a joke at the beginning, right? EVERYONE knows how to play and has played pinball, right..?! Everyone's definitely played 3D Pinball Space Cadet during the majority of their formative years, RIGHT?!?!?!

Funnily enough, i love me some sonic spinball but pinball levels in sonic games always annoyed me. Except the one in rivals 2 that's pretty fun

I find it ironic how Sonic’s fundamentals are based around pinball. Yet Mario has the better (even if only slightly) pinball based spinoff game. 😂

👏🏾👏🏾👏🏾

Considering recent events, is there any chance you'll talk about Dragon Ball's influence on Sonic?

Boing boing

This is the video of all time

Call it a steaming hot take, but while I think green hill is the best sonic 1 level, spring yard is my personal favorite from sonic 1. I also like all other pinball levels in the classics.

Here before this goes public lol!

Thats where we're going with today huh?

Balls🤭

B A L L. The answer is ball