How Super Forms Hurt Sonic Stories 

I honestly think that Unleashed handled the Chaos Emeralds trope almost perfectly. The circumstance for them being in the story is the most creative, BY FAR.

I think the issue is more with the chaos emeralds. They're kind of unwieldy as a plot device, requiring one party have all seven to do something big. But it can be worked with in many ways. If anything, Super Sonic is *under*used in the modern games, not overused. I'd honestly like to see another story involve the emeralds and a Super Sonic finale.

How I would handle the chaos emeralds is have the enemy get the chaos emeralds first and have them use the emeralds to fight the heroes until the end of the story, because this way a lot of characters would be need to fight to save the day

Good video, man. I feel like I should preface by saying that I enjoyed it, because I disagree with most of what was said and I feel like I'll come off as very blunt when discussing it. Firstly, you saying that Super Sonic needs to take a break from Sonic stories for now is odd to me because we haven't had a Super Sonic boss fight in over ten years (if you don't count Mania). We have gone through Boom, Lost World and Forces without any mention of Super Sonic, never mind a Super Sonic finale. Unless I am mistaken, we are currently already experiencing what you are advocating for. Secondly, I don't think the problem you're talking about is with Super Sonic. It's with the Chaos Emeralds. Super Sonic is the reward for obtaining the Chaos Emeralds, in both story and gameplay terms. Since Super Sonic can't exist without the Emeralds, they are the element that needs to be written out - not the Super form itself. Additionally, you talk of Super Sonic being a narrative dead-end for a majority of the series when, to my knowledge, there have been just as many if not more instances of Super Forms playing no role in the narrative conclusion to the games: Sonic 1, Sonic 2 (optional gameplay reward), Sonic CD, Sonic & the Secret Rings, Sonic & the Black Knight (if you don't count other alternate forms as Super forms) Sonic Colours, Sonic Lost World, Sonic Boom and Sonic Forces. Your point in this video makes sense, and would have been wholly appropriate many years ago, but it kind of falls apart for me nowadays because you seem to have left the nine games I listed completely unaddressed in your essay. And on top of that, I can't agree that Super forms are a narrative dead-end because they are still ripe for exploration. I don't think that Super forms are an issue, I think that the lack of creativity in their use is an issue. Their a narrative and gameplay tool. Not inherently flawed in themselves but flawed in their application; using Super forms hasn't grown old, doing nothing new with them has. But to give you some ideas for solutions to the Super form issue you have: -You could have the Master Emerald fall into the main antagonist's hands. Since it can cancel the effects of the Chaos Emeralds, Super forms suddenly become incredibly unreliable for our heroes. -Have the antagonist be something that Super forms cannot defeat in the traditional way. The Emeralds must be used more creatively in order to win. -Keep the Chaos Emeralds separated for the entire adventure. If they must come together, have them gathered by the antagonists instead of the heroes. This could even flip the dynamic and have the power of Super forms be the final hurdle the heroes must overcome without having that power themselves. -Or the simplest solution: have the Emeralds be missing, lost or being hidden and protected. Writing them out of a story is simple, but their absence should be explained in one way or another. Once again, good video. I apologise for the painfully long comment and I hope my disagreeing with you on this hasn't come off as rude or anything.

While it doesn't completely shirk the formula, I'm glad Frontiers seems to be subverting the Super Sonic trope in a unique way. Though this is still technically unconfirmed, it seems that Sonic will have to collect 7 Chaos Emeralds on each of the 4 Starfall Islands, transforming into Super Sonic each time to fight against titanic bosses. Because of this, it also stands to reason that Sonic will have to attain an even more powerful form for the true final boss of the game. It's not ideal, but it's an interesting way to play with the power dynamics of the story without completely abandoning the formula, while also making this story seem even larger in scale than previous adventures. Just my thoughts tho.

I always believed that Super Forms would work amazingly for Sonic RPGs; a temporary form that boosts all stats by a set amount that is necessary for enemies you can’t take on, or to perhaps unlock hidden factors, by doing things impossible in regular play. Ring Energy is what Super Forms run on, and if more than one person is to transform, the total Ring Energy must be divided amongst the team. Something like that would be so cool.

Talking about how Super Sonic needs a break even though it was last used in a mainline story over 10 years ago lol

Maybe it would be possible to add a Power System of some sort? Something that, while connected to the emeralds, doesn’t strictly require the Chaos emeralds to be used. Although the Chaos Emeralds possess a massive amount of power, the ability to tap into some of their power without directly using one would be optimal if they aren’t found. The creation of a Power System could allow for new forms or even new moves that could be used to defeat an opponent. Adding a Power System would allow for consistency instead of having a new power being brought up every game. There are some issues with this though; while I think this works narrative-wise, in terms of gameplay, incorporating a Power System seems complicated and would present challenges. I haven’t spent much time thinking about this, so there are definitely a lot of risks when incorporating this, but since we’re just throwing out ideas, I just thought I’d give my 2 cents.

I think super forms should appear every other game instead of back to back that way their impact can be greater. And let’s give sonic and the gang forms they can use on command. These forms aren’t as strong as super forms but aren’t push overs either and they suit the respective characters like the mistake weapons from rise of the tmnt. For example you could give sonic a power up that greatly enhanced speed, or silver a form that gives him better psychic powers, knuckles gets greater strength, tails could makes tech, etc. Finally nerf the chaos emeralds a HUGE issue with the emeralds as of late is they they can do everything. Need to time travel emeralds, need to bring someone back from the dead emeralds, etc, dialing back the chaos emeralds power would make the stakes greater and even give the super emeralds a purpose.

Perhaps there should be "Intermediary Super Forms" (Like the different forms that Chaos have when he uses the emeralds) that the characters can use whenever they have at least one Chaos Emerald. This would make the jockeying of the Chaos Emeralds between the heroes and the villains less of a zero sum game of "get all and be super powerful or nothing at all" A second idea of mine would be permanently adding a parallel set of gems to the Chaos Emeralds, with it's own super form and maybe it's own features. This way, if the villains is searching for one set of gems, the heroes would look for the other set of gems; the two sides would then have both of their powers scale accordingly with one another over the course of the story This plot structure would still be predictable. But at least there's more variety in choosing the plot structures that involves the Chaos Emeralds

I think the super forms in Sonic stories should be used as a last resort.

Just destroy one of the chaos emeralds, so Super Sonic would be no more

I think they should follow the Chaos formula where the villain starts off weak enough for most heroes to defeat but eventually grows in power and they need the Chaos Emeralds to defeat it. Or have the emeralds from the start, but the villain is too strong for Super Sonic so you have to upgrade them to the Super Emeralds and go Hyper Sonic in the end.

My whole idea is just make the Chaos Emeralds a Rarity throughout the series, you always hear about them being super rare artifacts that are hard to find so why not make that the norm for Sonic stories, have a higher cast of characters that can actually be beaten by base form Sonic alone and for the bigger threats like Dark Gaia, and Solaris, have them pull out the Chaos Emeralds, I'm not talking like every 1 or 2 games, I mean like every 10 to 20 games, or heck, maybe even sooner than that on rare occasions, just have a relatively Long window from usage to usage, essentially what I'm saying is you can have the chaos emeralds in the story but just make it so that they barely get used unless they really need to be, and hell, maybe if the threat isn't a big enough deal to use the Chaos Emeralds on, we can have Sonic's friends help him in a fight for once.

the emerald should be spoofed from existence halfway thru the game and in the end they come back that would be interesting

You can put sonic in a place that prevents him from being anywhere near getting the chaos emeralds (different dimension, planet etc.) like colors

I think it would be interesting if the fact that he changes into base after running out of rings was changed into a different consequence that raises the stakes more. If there was both a short and long term negative affect on his physical health due to overusing the form, that was shown at the start of a game or story, it could make things more interesting when it comes to the point where it absolutely has to be used. Goku vs Vegeta in the Saiyan Saga had such high stakes because Goku kept on pushing himself with a form that was established to have dire consequences if pushed too far, only to *just* beat the opponent. Why not use this same idea for a form that needs a little spicing up after over so many years of the same stale plots; why not expand on the original kaioken idea by introducing long term permanent consequences as well, so that the form is even more rare and exciting to see since its usually reserved for the ending of a game? Plus, this would be an excuse for Sonic to maybe not slip, fall, and accidentally drop his 7 giant colorful emeralds across several different corners of the world every game since he could still keep them yet also not be overpowered 24/7 if he felt like it.

My way of fixing the problem is too add risk to using the chaos emeralds, Maybe we could have some threat emerge from the chaos emeralds and that could be our antagonist for the story?

I feel that the best way to handle the chaos emeralds would be to mix up story structures from game to game, like for example: for one game the classic story structure that you said is used, then maybe for the next game the chaos emeralds aren't used at all, then for the next, they handle it like IDW did it, then they make a new form, etc

A fun thing would be the introduction to the existence of Fleetway Super Sonic from the Archie Comics, an embodiment of pure chaos. They don't have to outright copy how Fleetway was done in the comics, imagine it like a detriment due to Sonic relying on the chaos emeralds all the time as a Deus ex machina until it eventually backfires and births Fleetway. Like how Classic Sonic used to have black eyes and green eyes as Classic Super Sonic (Due to chaos energy) in the old games, and then green eyes as Modern Sonic and red eyes as Modern Super Sonic (Due to having transformed multiple times) like Shadow's red eyes who can naturally control chaos powers (Chaos Blast/Spear/Snap/etc.) Basically, the more he transforms, the more he becomes filled with chaos energy even after de-powering. Up until the point it gives birth to a Fleetway Super Sonic whom is menace barely anyone could beat. And even after the Fleetway crisis is eventually averted, Sonic will start to think twice before going super the next time he has to.

I really like the chaos emeralds as it gives us a whole new level of extra rewarding fights with super sonic finale bosses and gives the franchise a whole new platform of adventure and pressure to get a good ending to the story by trying to collect them .that’s my answer…:) (I know that people will disagree but this is my opinion👍)

So I'm making a Sonic Forces rewrite in my free time, right? Somewhere during the story, I plan to establish the location of the Chaos Emeralds, unlike the main game. Essentially, when Eggman and Infinite are done with testing out the Phantom Ruby, Eggman brings up combining the power of the Emeralds _with_ the Ruby. They try it (either with one Emerald or more, still haven't decided), and it turns out that they are largely incompatible. Eggman says that he _could_ make either a copy of the Ruby or a Chaos Emerald that _is_ compatible with the other. Infinite, the egotistical twat that he is, says that it would take too long and that "the original Ruby is more than enough". Eggman complies and decides to have his robots hide every Emerald in whatever location he thinks would be hard to find. In the sequel, the plan is to make the new antagonists actually go through with the combination plan. Thing is, said antagonists need to make copies of both the Ruby and the Emeralds, because they are terrified of the original Ruby's power due seeing it in action first hand, and because they don't really know how to use the original Chaos Emeralds. As a result, this "Emeruby" (name pending) is _extremely_ powerful, but needs to be recharged on a constant basis. A "glass cannon", I believe is the right term. Because of this, the main antagonist slowly starts to grow impatient and slowly starts to consider combining the _real_ ones. The Final confrontation is essentially a mad-dash to get to both of the mystical gems before him. Sooooo...did I fix anything, or did I just make the problem worse?

I think best parts about Chaos was that he could get stronger with EVERY single emerald he got. They can easily introduce another group of "certainly not Chaos emeralds" that would give both heroes and villains power gradually and maybe even end in something like a fight from Shang Chi, where both antagonist and protagonist both fought with rings and could take them away from the opponent. And also I agree with you on the new final form and it's not hard to justify heroes not being able to use these new powers after the stories' conclusion The other direction you might take with it is to make a villain less powerful than heroes normally, but much more capable with the new macguffin than our heroes and force them to destroy them all just to stop villains

Here's my idea. We have one big story that sets up the new formula I'm talking about It goes like this. Sonic and gang are relaxing from theirs last big victory, not hearing from eggman in a while. They wouldn't really care at first, but then, as the months go by, they would get more and more paranoid, and start purging zones and frantically collecting the chaos emeralds. That leads into the gameplay until the mid point, where the egghead finally shows up. He's got a new crew of baddies along with a powerful maguffin, yada yada yada. When sonic tries to transform into super, eggman seems worried, until the transformation suddenly starts failing.sonic, confused, looks at eggman and sees his crap eating smile, soon breaking out into laughter. It turns out, all the emeralds have been drained of their energy. Big surprise, I know. But however, eggman isn't actually eggman! The being shapeshifts into his normal form, a crystallised, purple looking manic face, along with a crystallised body, blended with metallic parts that have a scratched out egg man logo on them. It has a piercing red eye. Key word, eye. The being is split in half, it's other side showing a pure white side, with a dark blue outline and a body remenicent of the dark side, but with the light palette, without the metal and much more smooth than the sharp edges of the dark side. The villains name? Belive it or not, Its pure chaos! Yeah, the chaos energy inside the emeralds? It manifested into this being of dark and light, escaping from the emeralds. It happened in eggmans base at the beginning of the game, back when he was planning another "devious" scheme. Turns out, the energy is a free spirit like sonic, not wanting to be trapped or used by anyone. However, the light side had a different opinion. It loved to help and only ever wanted to stay in the emeralds to help sonic and Co. The dark side however, with more aggression, shuts down the light, and shatters the emeralds around sonic with a mere hand motion. The team watches in shock, as the baddies escape. Sonic, unusually angry, demands to go to eggmans base, even raising his voice at tails before calming himself. He storms eggmans base and basicly holds him at spin point, demanding answers. Sonics link with chaos was severed when the emeralds broke, and so has his temper. Egg man swears he didn't do anything, and his friends have to spot sonic from injuring the guy, so they team up to face them. During the journey, sonic drives away all his friends with his aggressive turn, and is left in a cave to think. In a distraught silence, he sees the dark chaos emerge from him, noticing the hate he felt was gone. The dark chaos drove him away, and now, he was helpless. Sonic engages in a massive boss fight with it, bashing himself up In the process. He quickly realises he can't do this on his own, or even as a team. He needs chaos power. He starts with finding his friends, who he finds battling the dark chaos' lackies, all while it follows close behind, pestering sonic. He defeats them with ease, wondering why he even made them in the first place. He then notices the dark being 5 times bigger than he was initially. It discloses that he knew sonic would dart for his lackies and his friends, he knows how sonic thinks. He gave his lackies some of his strength in order to make them, so defeating them would give that extra power back. After all, he was harnessed by him, he knows him. Sonic goes to attack, but is sent into the wall so hard that he goes on to crash through 5 more buildings, before landing, unconscious, *and bleeding out. * Tails leaves the fight to check on sonic, and goes to his lab to fix him up. Sonic is given bandages to stop the blood, and the team is tasked with finding 100 rings while they battle the dark chaos. They notice a strange glow coming from them however, and are strangely able to keep up with it. With the rings, sonic is back alive, and joins the fight, he also gaining new powers. He uses a light speed attack, the first attack that was able to deal some devastating blows. Then, egg man coms in, with the egg fleet, joining the fight. At this point, the gameplay is a dynamic burst of fast paced platforming and speed with ramped up difficulty, switching between sonic and Co, encluding eggman, before the monsters crystallised shell finally breaks. Inside, is a plume of dark smoke, that begins to float into the air. Everyone rejoices, happy that its all over. However, the smoke instead rushing into sonic, and concern describes everyone's facial expression. The light energy, in them all along, (which was how they could fight in the first place) reunited and floats into sonic as well, and he turns into super sonic, but looks rather distressed and is in immense pain. In a moment of oxymoron, the powered up sonic collapses, still bursting with energy. Its now an internal battle, the light energy and sonic combining to form a resplendantly shining super sonic, fighting against the dark chaos. Mind you, this is going on in sonics mind now. His friends can only sit and watch the passed out super sonic. They put him on life support, trying to conserve his life. Then, tails has a brainwave. He saw both the energy go into sonic, but he's done it before. Why is it bad now? He pieces together that they must be fighting inside sonic. He knows that chaos power is limitless, and now that sonics minds and life are on the line now, he has to call for desperate measures. He calls out to the team to peice back the seven chaos emeralds, the shards of which they had kept incase for things like this. Tails immediately seals them back together, and the group catches on. They use tailses device to communicate with sonic, saying that they need sonic to weaken the black smoke. He keeps fighting, harder now, while the group uses the chaos emeralds to slowly draw dark chaos into the emeralds. Sonic and Co defeat the monster, and he regains consciousness, while all of their friends rejoice. They send the emeralds into deep space, to keep Dark chaos away, while the light chaos thanks sonic for his perseverance. The light floats into the sky, sonic and Co waving goodbye. That night, 7 respledant stars could be seen. They are the shining stars, the manifestation of the light chaos, only to appear every 5 years. There are your new magguffins, and the emerald Problem Fixed. This story is a little rough around the edges, but with a little polish, I could see Ian flynn writing this. I spent like an hour typing this, and I hope someone reads all of it. The formula from this point onward would be completely what every it wants to do, as the new shining star items would only appear every 5 years in the sky, before crash landing. Stories are free from the chaos emeralds Once and for all.

My favorite version of SuperSonic is definitely the Fleetway version. The reason why is because there are actual consequences when Sonic uses it or is forced to use it. Also you never really know when he would come out.

We haven't had super Sonic since Generations and I'm glad he is returning in Frontiers. Though a new form would be nice.

I do think you kinda glossed over the one which easily does best at removing the chaos emeralds sonic coulours still adds tension to it at the end (obviously) that being the emeralds are simply unreachable or unusable it reminds of what became of the super emeralds in 3k and mania for example drained of their energy and lifeless now I'm not saying drain the emeralds of their power rather like idw make it so the heroes are incapable of getting the emeralds here's my pitch for unleashed the chaos emeralds can only regain their full power once light Gaia turns into that titan thing at the end of unleashed so all hope is lost for most of the story maybe chip can say something like he can't bring the chaos emeralds back and he'll have to fight dark Gaia base form style also give these villains some personality I can't believe I'm saying this but infinite was a good example of this ignoring his back story he showed that he was a character easily able to defeat sonic and his friends now if he let's say turn again Eggman and like what I just said through forces the emeralds where on Eggman's side maybe even make it so they are manipulated by the phantom ruby to be negative or something that could be an intriguing story Sorry this went into a how to make forces better rant at the end but yeah that's my idea

I'm surprised that colors wasn't mentioned.

You didn’t mention sonic colors. The game pretty much did exactly what your asking for in this video. Just not exactly a new form but being helped by the wisps.

After watching the video, this reminded me of another video that Nativefall made where he talks about how the Chaos Emeralds are either over or under used in the stories (overused in the 2000s and underused in the 2010s). Sure, I can see where your coming from with the Chaos Emeralds being the only thing giving the characters any source of power instead of letting the very nature let them go full out to the max, but I have to imagine that Sega made it this way just to keep things from being 100% like DBZ (or at least that's what I heard from some people). How could this be worked around? Well, in some games like Adventures 1 and 2, 06, and Unleashed should keep the Chaos Emeralds as we see some connections to the Chaos Emeralds and how things can go down. And some like Sonic Forces should actually have them present, because I like to imagine that Eggman wouldn't let the Chaos Emeralds go to waste and use them for this own war efforts like creating a bunch of robots, ships, weapons, even experiment a new creation of a theoretical jewel that combines both the Chaos Emerald's powers and the Phantom Ruby's powers as Eggman's IQ is 300 and tries anything he can to defeat Sonic and rule the world. Though I'd be lying that in something like Sonic 06, the Chaos Emeralds are replaced with the Time stones from CD as that game has time travel. Others like Sonic Colors for the Wii and Sonic Lost World clearly takes a break from using the Chaos Emeralds because Eggman doesn't pose as a huge threat compare to the more Forces or Nature beings like Chaos, Dark Gaia, and Solaris, and the "Deadly" 6 or as I call them the Bland Stereotype 6 are just a bunch of pathetic weaklings (more so than Infinite in my opinion). And some titles like Sonic Heroes and Sonic Riders should just not bother using the Chaos Emeralds those stories don't do anything or aren't even brought up until the end of the narrative (Heroes) or in a particular event in the story (Riders). Plus, imagine how interesting and strong Sonic and his friends can be by taking down Metal Overload without needing the Chaos Emeralds because having power alone wouldn't should the character's full potential, it's by having faith in each other and making usage of each other's strengths and weaknesses (look at the recent Sonic 2 movie for example, as Eggman had the Master Emerald in him while fighting the 3 heroes and they managed to knock that power out of the mad doctor himself. Sure Sonic does go Super once he gets the Master Emerald, and it somehow crumbles into 7 tinny tiny Emeralds and beats Eggman easily but point is, they managed to take down Eggman without the need of the Master Emerald, again mostly). And when you brought up the Story Book games Secret Rings and Black Knight, while they still follow the Super Sonic ending trope, the Dark Spine and Excaliber Super Sonic forms offer something different to Sonic's forms and abilities (now what about the Werehog from Unleashed? Well there is a clear case, from beginning to near end thanks to Eggman's successful kick starter plan to break the planet, Sonic gets caught in a trap with the Chaos Emeralds and upon breaking the planet in 7 pieces, the dark connections within the planet's core transfer to Sonic himself and drained the Chaos Emeralds of their powers.) But getting back to what Secret Rings and Black Knight offered, and the rumor of a potential new form in Frontiers, some games like Sonic Rush have the Sol Emeralds alongside the Chaos Emeralds. Imagine, wouldn't it be cool to see a Burning Sonic form with the Sol Emeralds? A Super Time form with the Time Stone? Hell, even the return of Hyper Sonic with the Master Emerald (despite Sega's disinterest in that form)? And considering that the series has something with positive and negative emotions, why not bring over the Dark Sonic from from Sonic X or recreate it as an official Dark form. And the movie universe has Sonic and Knuckles have a powered up Chaos form where they glow and go full out with their gifted powers.

Give characters super forms specific abilities and use cases so you can have different super fanalies and story structures in the game. Maybe shadow gets a new alien type transformation that makes him good at warping space time and combat Maybe knuckles gets one more focused around defending that attacking specialized in shields Maybe blazes purfies things with her flames. Maybe silver specifically telekenetically focused and its about controlling movement. You could have different endings, story structures, heck different catalysts in some cases that. And still have super sonic as a gameplay reward.

Everyone knows sonic is gonna win in the end and super sonic boss fights are a staple of the sonic series in most of the new games it's relegated to a side mechanic, I think froniters has shown that a sonic game without super sonic is kinda bland. The feeling when the music kicks in on the guardian fights, the flashy finishers and the cool stylish things you can do with them, make them great for sonics core gameplay style, which seems to be about spectacle, making the player feel powerful, in all sonic games the super sonic fight is the epic climax that we all expect until they scraped it in colors but brought it back in generations. There are probably many ways to make a sonic story with the emeralds good but the stories without the emeralds i.e colors, lost world, forces, all show why we need the emeralds, if sonic could beat the enemies in his base form then it makes the final fights anti climatic the story could easily be eggman using the emeralds for something evil to stop sonic from going super bur gameplay would suffer so just keep super sonic in it's like taking super sayian out of DBZ.

Yet another banger video my guy 👌

Ik this video is old compared to when frontiers released but I think frontiers fixed the issue, because it's not super sonic only in final boss and the end can actaully beat super sonic.

Gotta love how the super forms are species and gender specific. Male hedgehogs only. Crazy how Knuckles, who has great knowledge and even connections to both the Chaos emeralds and the Master emerald, doesn't have a super form (IIRC, Sonic Team considers his and Tails' super forms non-canon). Meanwhile Silver, who only encountered one emerald with little to no knowledge of them, gets one. I'm not hating on Silver, just pointing out how it doesn't make sense from a lore standpoint.

I think the issue is that the games have been oversaturated with the Chaos Emeralds presence that it's hard for the writers to go in a different direction for the series, I'd say the series has fallen into a phase of mediocrity because there are so many issues with the franchise that form one really big mess of a situation. With Sonic Frontiers I think they have a chance of making something different and unique in many aspects while also keeping and adapting some of the better aspects of the series, but until we actually get the game and see what it's like, I'd say that the series either needs a soft or hard reboot (if needed) in order to take the series concepts and ideas and try to make something even more interesting and fresh.

I completely disagree that Super Form is a problem. Especially since your "solution" is just to replace Chaos Emeralds with other McGuffins and Supre Sonic with some other transformation. I mean, there is nothing bad in doing exactly that but it doesn't really change the basic premise - villain is on par with Sonic and Sonic searches for Emeralds (or other artifacts) to get the upper hand, yet in the end, the villain gets power boost too and thus SuperSonic fights with the last boss on equal footing again. In fact, this kind of premise is no different from many stories in movies, anime, etc.

This is why Colors, Lost World, and Forces removed Super Sonic from the plot

At this point the emeralds are seen more as a liability then a last resort power.Having some kind of from original to the story could work but keeping super sonic out of the story entirely might be a bit risky not saying it’s a bad idea.Sure with frontiers well most likely see super appear in the end of the game but hopefully in the next game we can see something entirely new instead of just golden sonic boi again

I like your way, but I think another way could be having Sonic's body allow itself to absorb the emerald energy permanently, allowing him to go super whenever, however then show off a villain that far surpasses Super Sonic, making Sonic have to track down either the chaos emeralds, or a new set of power sources to evolve the super form, even if just for that game.

Honestly transformations in any media in general kinda bug me. I love a lot of them and their concepts, Dragon Ball and Sonic being huge factors in this, but I feel like they will be constant dead ends, unless there is a way to do something unique with them. For example, in Dragon Ball, transformations are now the crutch of when Goku or another character needs to clutch up in a fight. Yes, that is fine the first time round, but when it repeats again and again, it becomes boring and lessens the impact of the previous transformation. That's the same issue with Sonic, except instead of a new transformation, he has to repeat going into his Super form yet again. While the transformations are cool in both series, they pretty much serve to be one thing: Stronger than the previous state (Dragon Ball has transformations be stronger than the previous ones before it leading back into base and Sonic has it be stronger than base). This kinda comes as a flaw because in Dragon Ball's case, you wonder why Goku even bothers to cycle through his previous forms in the first place and in Sonic's, he has to go on yet another fetch quest for the emeralds. It's not like Iron Man who has to get the suit on to have his powers, Goku and Sonic are literally just weaker (and in Sonic's case, has a few less abilities such as flight) and that kinda detriments the story.

So, what about Hyper Sonic?

Maybe they could give him/them the Super Form earlier and let the villain actually win against it. Which forces Team Heros think of another way to beat the enemy or another way of using the Chaos emeralds/Super forms. They could bring back the space colony arc canon and/or involve the Super Chaos emerald, which could tie im Shadow and Knuckles. Maybe the enemy could negate the Super Power or reverse it, like hurting sonic for using it, but he has to use it to keep up with the bad guy. It would give a nerv for the emeralds and makes the "fully, at all times involved" Antagonist a menacing force. Also they should'nt do a infinte, which was just an cringe worthy angry dude, but instead an understable, relatable, compelling, narative force as the Main badie. Eggman could be involved somehow, but doesnt have to. Yeah, that were just some ideas from me.

When I played my first sonic game turning super was the best ang biggest thing ever! and I felt sad that it just wasn't in forces. but think íng logically I can see how the chaos emeralds are just a mc guffin' to drive the story. but in frontiers in the final horizon updtae they come with two new super forms just like you suggested, I still havn't been able to play as them but boy, I sure can't wait

I disagree. Having a predictable formula doesn't automatically mean bad. We just went 2 games in a row without Super Sonic anyways.

I totally agree with you on Super form and emeralds by extension being a bad long term thing for a franchise Btw that's one of the reasons writing in Sonic Omens sucks. Spoilers obviously. By the villain straight up destroys all the emeralds and Sonic still turns into his Super form 😑

What's your opinion on Sonic Boom then? The Chaos Emeralds don't even exist and Lyric wasn't just some mindless monster to climactically thwart a at the end. It was the team working together that put a stop to him, expressing their ideals against his.

"How sega needs to hire real writers" the video ...just have story where all chaos emeralds aren't accessible at the same time so they either get sidelined or shift their role in the story - Sonic games can do fine without transformation; Have villain that can also utilize power of emeralds so the could be a threat depending on their form (like Chaos was); Have Eggman be at least Adventure-esque competent; Have Super transformation be simply additional arsenal and/or part of larger plan's execution - like frontiers bosses or ShTH's black comet situation. Many other ways. I don't agree with new bs powers out of nowhere - it is good for one-shots, but as a constant formula just kills any potential for non-episodical writing (the world can't have endless amount of mythical things out of nowhere - it just damages overall writing) - and with lack of that there would be need to constantly introduce new elements and no one in the series would be able to have any story arcs that take more than 10 minutes of cutscenes. It's sad when sonic triple trouble 16bit is the only sonic game since unleashed (if not sonic battle/parts of 06) that has decent writing Also burn all the wisps and deadly six out of mythos. Burn them all alive. They don't look like part of sonic franchise no matter how much Sega tries to convince you otherwise. They just don't fit with any existing sonic art style or setting. Either remove them or change Sonic to fit them.

I may have an opinion on what it says I can somewhat agree to some extent but I think what they could do and it's been shown in the games even like for example sonic or 6 sonic wasn't dealing with The main bad guy alone he had silver and shadow it's on a cure and shadow sonic heroes he had knuckles and tails even though they had no superforms on and processed super bubble if anything the games did prove that sonic as much as he has a super form he can't do it I don't know and I'm to even improve my statement that superform can not alone defeating enemy sonic X specifically with dark oak sonic couldn't defeat him at the beginning Which led to sonic Separating all The chaos emeralds in to space What I could say is what they could do is present sonic already having his superform in the battle so much of how they did previously but introduce a new form that's not a test it's saying that oh the casseroles aren't strong enough , This way it presents a way of power scaling towards sonic and his superform and saying a new form is stronger than that giving also the new villain a type of level and threat into the whole world and also give that character to the character developed what could potentially if the villain is someone who hides in the background gives a power skating towards the villain as well or somewhat of a threat towards you and towards how it is

My idea would just have sonic or shadow just hang on to the chaos emeralds. Like from either sonic or shadow be like you know what theses fall into the wrong hands so I'm not going to let them scatter. Then set up a powerful antagonists that utterly smacks super sonic or super shadow. You have a very powerful force that beats the heroes at their strongest and our main character most overcome him over the course of the game. I rather this be a one off story but a one nonetheless as you get to use the super form from the very start to the end. I do love me some super form battles heck the coolest episode im sonic x was when super sonic and super shadow duked it out and i love fan projects such sonic nazo unleashed which use the form or the fan fame sonic rpg

personally super sonic is just too good of an idea to just let go off and i believe when you're cornered into a wall i say break the damn thing make supersonic not enough to defeat the antagonist or maybe make the characters actually fight to get the superform like in the idw comic i remember reading the page right before sonic and silver transformed the stakes were way too hight for sonic if he didn't use the macgaffins he would be rendered useless or another example a fan game sonic triple trouble displays the scramble for the chaos emeralds lastly to make the finale more cinematic i think they should do what they did with sonic unleashed they made it an epic and in my opinion when the game doesn't amount to something superior it just feels far too underwhelming...

I don't really think I agree honestly. I have never had a problem with the Emeralds, Super Sonic, or their role in the story aside from recently in Frontiers, and that's just cause you had to regain them several times in one game.

Now listen folks, I hate Super Sonic as much as the next guy but I don’t think he should be given retirement papers or anything, I think Super Sonic is fine as it is and I’m ok with a predictable story as long as it’s good, but if you want to know how I would handle the situation then here it is, but this will still involve the chaos emeralds… First off I would have Sonic, Shadow, and Silver be super from the start of the story, with them facing either Eggman in an all powerful new mech, or a new threat either a celestial being or another time god, the fight would end in a stalemate with both parties falling to the earth, Eggman stumbles upon this god or gem and with some studies figures he can use it to conquer the world once again. Sonic and friends head out to find the great evil of this plot synopsis and figure out that the mad doctor has a role to play in all this. While the rest of the gang searches for Eggman, Sonic and Tails go to Angel Island to pay Knuckles a visit, but also to see if Sonic is still able to harness the power of the Super Emeralds. (I forgot to mention this earlier but the Chaos Emeralds have lost their power and are now shattered, and while the rest of the Resistance is looking for Eggman, Team Dark and Team Heroes *minus Sonic and Shadow* are looking for the emerald shards.) Little does the team know, Eggman already has 4 emeralds in his possession, and is making the god and/or gem absorb their energy leaving them colorless and powerless, mean while Sonic is still trying to get the Super Emeralds to activate but nothing is working. Then in the final act the team finally finds Eggman, and he is more confident and smug than ever, then he unleashes a mech which I’m gonna be calling the “Egg Hydra” and absolutely demolishes the Resistance and finally obtains the rest of the Chaos Emeralds, the new threat absorbs their power and now the “Egg Hydra” is bigger, spikier, and even more powerful, but then right when Eggman is about to go in for the kill, a flash of rainbow light knocks him out of the way and heals all of the injured before “Hyper Knuckles” and “Super Tails” fly in to help, and hovering above them staring Eggman down… is “Hyper Sonic”. Halfway through the final boss when Sonic thinks his team won, is when you can hear Eggman angrily ranting about his machine going haywire most likely because of too much energy output and too much damage sustained, but really it’s because the new threat had gained sentience again and is now controlling the Egg Hydra. During the battle the new threat (Who I’m now gonna be calling “the being”) explains its origins and why it’s here and Sonic now is feeling sorry for the being but knows that he can’t let the being colonize earth, and as always Sonic defeats her, the earth is saved, the sick and injured are healed, the being is destroyed not giving a second chance, the Chaos Emeralds regain their lost power and the Super Emeralds are once again sealed, never to be used again. This is just a loose plot summary I came up with on the fly, I know that there are massive plot holes in my story but that’s because this is just something I came up with on the top of my head, now I don’t really think Super Sonic needs to go or needs to skip out on the action, like I said at the start as long as it is good then I’m fine with a predictable story, I just wanted to have a go at writing a Sonic story and share my thoughts. We cool… cool 😎.

I am so glad some one agrees with me on this point

Interesting video

The villans should just be weaker and use and the chaos emerald to go super.

Unleashed story was partly caused by gaia turning off the emralds!!! That's one way to make the story different. Find a way to neutralize the emralds!!!! Similer to manina too where the phantom ruby knocked out super sonic, or have something that can rival the emralds or have the enemy use the emralds or their own similar thing. I don't think super sonic endings are a bad thing and the emralds being the power up compared to dragon ball always using the same transformations make it less special to mme. I think using ssj and ssg to get ssb is a great way to keep the forms relevant. But compared to naruto and one peice where the forms are tools for different snearios the power creep does linger in the back of my head. DB is leaning into techniques more but that's why I think hyper albet cool is redundant as a transformation in isolation for the same reason as goku forms. But I think the requirement of the master emreald makes it better.

Lol sega is already doing this super sonic hasn’t been in a game in ten years 😪 Wasn’t in Colors Lost world Boom Or forces And then the storybook games

Don't agree, I love Super Sonic to death. They shouldn't put him in every game in my opinion, but if it makes sense in the story then sure

Agreed

Frontiers managed this well.

I actually disagree. To me, SuperSonic himself is more a payoff for whatever narrative point the story is trying to reinforce as well as a goal/reward for the efforts of the characters in a critical situation of the story and shouldn't be looked at mechanically the same way SuperSaiyan is. What i actually wanna see more of is the chaos emeralds being used against the heroes moe frequently in new and interesting ways, since the clash over the emeralds is what makes them good natrative devices. Another thing is I feel Sonic's use of SuperSonic should be interated upon more frequently. As in the range of what he can do as SuperSonic should be diversified and evovle rather than being samey.

In the future, please refrain from throwing out emotion like "I hate the chaos emeralds" since now no matter how much you pretend a human can be "objective" you've now shown your bias and it makes it really tough to take you seriously. I know it's all opinion and nowhere near fact being spoken here, but it makes it hard to just hear you out and enjoy the ride. Also, you just deciding SEGA is making these characters weak or they're used essentially to validate the emeralds can be true in some cases(Dark Gaia) but infinite, Memphiles, and others were present--just fighting other characters or gathering strength the same as Sonic /until/ they became an super level threat. I'm assuming you won't read all of this or your emotions will make it impossible you to see any other view than your own as correct since you've stated it too early. But I do agree with your take on Chaos, they haven't really topped him and he is pretty much the standard for how to bring the emeralds in without them feeling completely forced. But every game, story, series, company etc. does this; gives people the same thing in different ways its what /success/ is, that's what artist, tech companies, TV studios, and VG companies all do. I can literally simplify any plot into three pieces, doesn't make it terrible... Not a bad video, but seriously, save your emotion till the end, it'll give people more time to process what you feel instead of just blurting it out and setting a tone off the bat.

I didn’t see ultra instinct

ok

I always hated the idea of bringing back Hyper and Dark Sonic just for the sake of Sonic having more overpowered forms, people gotta realize this series ain't no Dragon ball

sonic frontiers Just go full anime

:)

i think your case would make sense if you looked at sonic as a character that dosent evolve over time but I think you misunderstand sonic and super sonic as a whole you use the whole dbz troupe that as a way to show that the villain is stronger then the previous one goku can instantly turn into whatever form he needs to match the villains level of power while sonic just has super sonic well theres two issues that i think your running into one your under the idea sonic doesnt grow throughout the games and two your under the idea super sonic dosent grow throughout the games to make it simple the super sonic who fought perfect chaos in adventure 1 isnt the same sonic who fought perfect chaos in generations sonic has been shown to grow throughout the course of the games for instance in adventure 1 sonic needed to charge up the light speed dash to use it then in adventure 2 he didnt need to charge it and in o6 onwards he didnt even need the shoes to perform the light speed dash sonic even confirms this himself within sonic forces that he gets stronger over time sure this may just seem to be throw away line but based on the fact that sonic has constantly gotten improved through each game through different ways it probably isnt a throw away line also on the manuals sonic is supposed to be faster then sound in the classic games but in some text in the ds version of sonic colors sonic casually states that going past the speed LIGHT is easy for him showing at least calssic sonic and modern have grown from each other. you mentioned some of the threats that sonic faced and how it dosent make sense at times if you ask me it makes perfect sense adventure super sonic can beat perfect chaos then o6 super sonic beat present time solaris and if you want to bring up dark gia and how hes much weaker then solaris then keep in mind dark gia has the ability to disrupt the power of the chaos emeralds which would explain super sonic struggling when fighting him and then when super sonic faces the time eater a being who can devour entire timelines him along with classic super sonic make quick work of him and in sonic forces considering infinite is at best a star level threat modern base sonic should easily be able to beat him at this time in a one on one fight so no chaos emeralds required keep in mind sonic lost orignally in forces due to him being ganged up on by a bunch of mountain level threats if were low balling and infinite, who is stated to be faster than him by tails no wonder he lost. if you ask me super sonic has been rather consistent in the story if factor in the fact sonic evolves with each game also as tikal put it the chaos emeralds are power enriched by the heart and the controller is the one who UNIFIES the chaos sounds to me like sonic can control how much power each fight would need so that could be another reason for super sonics inconsistency sonic pulling out different levels of power. honestly i think super sonics fine the storys just need better writers.

here is why i don't like them. What solidifies a super form and why cant any species other than MALE hedgehogs use them? If it was biology for only Hedgehogs why does it always specifiy that only males can do it...why would gender matter? And that doesnt even account for 1 eggmans original motivations since he cant use them, 2 Knuckles and his backstory really not making sence anymore other than guarding the master emerald for religion... Maybe superforms could only be mastered by hedgehogs allowing them to turn super sayan gold while other species (Echidnas, Foxes, others ) just get powerful forms that aren't nearly as powerful as the super forms.

I suggest the opposite. Bring back Hyper Sonic. Lol

This aged poorly

Honestly no offense, your issue fix nothing, but just adds another "repetitive" formula that you criticized throught the video. Basically you're swapping a problem with another problem. It can even feel Deus Ex Machina to a point if not well executed. Honestly, I don't think the chaos emeralds and the formula of collecting them isn't the issue, the problem is the execution. Secret Rings offered an interesting take on the formula, showing that you can do something different with it. And honestly, the last Sonic games (Colors, Lost World, Boom and Forces) all removed the Chaos Emeralds from the plot, and the plot from those games are terrible.

What an awful awful video. The sonic series has not had sonic go super at the end of the games since unleashed, excluding generations which didn't even count since it was anniversary game. Colors, lost world, even fired had no super sonic. Even in the spin offs like sonic riders, sonic battle, and sonic shuffle, sonic does not go super to beat the main bad guy