How the internet is Radicalizing Young Men And Creating Incels | Offline With Jon Favreau 

Its a widespread problem of CASUAL hateful and violent speech. People feel free to say the WORST things like it's no big deal at all. And are shocked if there are ever any consequences for what they said. Casual murder threats. Casual rape threats. Casual racism. What the hell happened to us? Better yet, how can we undo it?

@A Person I'd bet they also make racial assumptions.

Same here.

As an FtM trans dude who passes relatively well (I pass as a cis dude) I can tell you how many times working in an all-male IT team, how many time I had to bite my lips, hearing the sick misogynist takes from coworkers (especially the conservative brown ones). The 💩 they’d say about women when they though they were amongst peers 😳 For my own safety/job security had to be quiet but ugh. Absolutely believe you! 🤦🏼‍♂️

@@jessehachey2732 Oh yeah.. the worst racist comments I ever heard were overheard because some white people assumed I was on their side. The weird thing about mysogyny is that mysognist men seem to assume all men are on their side. Its important to speak up. Bigots need to FEEL they are in a minority. I think they mistakenly believe "everyone thinks this even if no one says it." And NO. We do not.

The toughest part of that is that financial stability is pretty important if you are wanting to facilitate change. People aren’t going to strike if they can’t feed their families for example, even if they arguably should.

Capitalism is the root problem.. and we have a country of people who grew up under red scare messaging unable to critically think about our financial system because of hyper individualism and the myth of meritocracy.. to fix the issue we have to start engaging with ideas that are practically forbidden because they sound socialist. To fix the root issue you have to recognize the American dream myth was never based in truth

Actually capitalism as a system isn't bad at all. The problem is when it goes unchecked.

@@anonplussedhuman2615 Every player in the game is working to make sure it goes unchecked. Life is not livable for anyone not in the game

@@anonplussedhuman2615 a system that goes bad if it’s not constantly beat back from doing what it naturally does isn’t a good system.. the point of a system is to create one that can run on auto pilot without grinding up hundreds of thousands of its subjects with death and despair and abject poverty and practical slavery. A system that feeds on the weakest most vulnerable people is a shit system. What you meant to say is capitalism as a system isn’t bad at all for you.. stating that you don’t have the worst position in a system isn’t stating how good that system is. You are just saying that capitalism has an acceptable level of carnage you don’t mind ignoring because it isn’t happening to you.

You should be incredibly proud of yourself. Misery loves company and being able to break free of toxic communities and thought patterns is a massive feat.

weaponized sociology. it's everywhere.

​@@rasija4💯

And you're an incompetent who's decided to befriend in a community which was full of volatile suicidal ugly idiots that despite establishing really incredibly useful foundation of information, you are not going to make the conclusions for your own life's situation and join the most degenerate user's lifestyle because they can't really do anything with it. *Or maybe you should admit you're making this story up.* Either which way, you don't simply start thinking like that unless you had experienced it, that society is like actually on a perpetual attempt to ruin your life. Maybe they do but it's within the flow of the modern-system natures and not a direct conscious process on their part. Maybe being that ugly, neurodivergent or lacking social prestige really sucks as a male and you hadn't initially established a good self-esteem + in a social group before falling victim to public degradation where it's really hard to escape the pipeline of helplessness.

That is terrible, I’m really glad you escaped! I also think that’s why it’s so important for people to understand how men get into these groups, and to be sympathetic and empathetic to their struggles, as opposed to attacking them. Because when we attack them, that just reaffirms that message… The whole world is against you, we’re the only ones that will accept you… Thank you for sharing!

I was doomed to crappy relationships my whole life because of where I lived.... I finally had enough and moved to a liberal city so I could meet people with values and ideas like mine, and now I have a wonderful husband and amazing friends. If I had stayed in Mississippi I would still be lonely and miserable. I guess it's a form of "social migration." I know full well it's a Big Damn Deal to pick up and move, but if you're able, it might be a life-altering change. I wish you ALL the good things ✨️ 🙏

Very detailed, thanks for sharing

@@shawnlove4502 Thx

Thank you so very much for sharing your incredible insight!! It is so incredibly depressing to realize that who we meet in our daily lives are not anything like they seem. I have 2 sons & 2 daughters, all grown now, but I fear for my grandchildren & future generations & often feel so overwhelmed!! You are a walking, breathing survivor of this ever growing cult of hate & the dehumanizing of people. I want to hear more from people who have narrowly escaped this contagion of hate & evil. God Bless you for sharing this & I am so sorry that you were so hurt in your past by the bullies & haters!! We can help others by telling our own stories!🙏🏻🦋🥰

Thank you sound like a thoughtful person and very honest to yourself -thanks for articulating this

Im so glad I just barely was able to have (most of) a childhood before the internet

I just wanted to say I had a very, very similar experience to yours growing up ('92!) online and being in those same spaces as a girl. It especially hit me hard with the discussion on this podcast about how "jokes" in these spaces just work to desensitize you to an incredibly damaging degree until you're vulnerable to extremism and too jaded to see the reality of what's going on. You're not alone!!

A slut is a woman having sex but not with the man calling her that name.

I'm from the Netherlands. I will post a video of what children (I looked it up, this specific show is for 10 to 12 year old) airing on SchoolTV but also on a public network aimed at children. In the example they are told what condoms are, how to NOT open them (nails/scisscors), how to put it on, how to safely dispose off it. But they also tell that the children watching this right now, doesn't mean they are even ready for that yet but one day they will and then it's good to know. In the US this would be classified as grooming right now, on the other hand it's 'just' some 25-30 percent really into all this gender, abortion, sexism etc topics. Aside from learning about condoms, they learn the consquences of sending a nude photo to (what they might think, or even when it would be a boyfriend) that you can't trust people you don't know telling they are who they are online, which they do understand already, but sending a nude pic to a boyfriend and later gets posted all over school or whatever because she broke up. Long story short (not really sober now, sorry) we have one of the lowest (for many years THE lowest) abortion rate . This while abortion is legal here. We also have one of the lowest numbers of teen parents/moms. But with those conservatives in the US you have to fight two battles...they also don't want children to be sexually informed.

Jesus - I thought it was hard being a teenage girl in the 80’s 😣

Is it? I wonder. I bet our social institutions have a much larger role to play, and are likely the cause of such fearful, ignorant, puritanical behavior

@@O1OO1O1 Institutions do play a roll in brainwashing individuals, but personal accountability must be considered. No institution made my former friend's mom tell us to stop being friends, if anything, her own personal history played a bigger factor. But yea, a lot of this goes back to issues of Church and State.

@@O1OO1O1 Well Puritanism can creep in the most unexpected places... five year olds can have sex drives, kid sex drives but sex drives nonetheless. Just saying nothing wrong with that.

my personal view that the "dating" culture, which is very American (although it is spreading) is what causes this. In Europe, most young all just hang out as friends, both sexes, then when there is attraction they break off into couples. But it is quite common to have a young man and woman out together as friends. Not saying Europe doesnt have its own problems with respect to this, but it is a very different dynamic.

There US is still very religious in many ways.

Absolutely! Men in power lead them.

@@cherylj7460 you old fossil

I thought that was actually disingenuous to conflate the two. She said they spoke at the event, they were there to get political support, whether they like them personally or not. It's a power grab, and the people who are there have real issues that are misconstrued or gaslit, and you end up with a hate movement/movements. She says they're different groups later on, but it was ineffective at best to make that claim without the nuance later provided.

And they often wrap it in religion acting they’re the good guys when they’re just misogynists.

@@missinterpretation4984 Exactly

Yes, I remember the news story. It was horrifying. And then not too long agon, another coip was arrested (thank god) in London (?) ... or somewhere in England for raping women.

That's horrifying!

Good post--and I love your cats!

thats a shitty story , and I think explains some of the reasons that I can't stand dating apps (as a 38 year old dude who doesn't subscribe to any of that incel crap) - in fact I don't think anyone likes them, but sees them as the only option because people are so withdrawn from healthy social interaction. The smartphone is like a nuclear bomb of bad information when given to people who don't appreciate the effect on humanity it can have. I actually stopped dating because of a relationship I had where the girl was highly manipulative, and then covid happened and since we have tried to re-normalize again, it's been extremely hard to rebuild any kind of social network irl that may have once previously existed. I unfortunately chose a career in tech because I thought I'd be good at it, before I became aware of what social media was doing to us as a culture. I don't use any of the big platforms, I always prefer real life organic interaction to algorithmically planned matchmaking, and I'm pretty jaded at the state of social affairs. It almost feels like a catch 22, I'd love to join some kind of anti-tech pro-social movement, but to organize it tech is pretty much necessary or else no one will hear it. When I was going back to school during the covid times , I went down a few rabbit holes of social media disinformation and what was causing it, mainly because I couldn't believe that people had bought into trumpism. I ignored the dude completely for 3.5 years till he threatened to shoot protesters after the Floyd murder, and then when I got a call from ym dad in florida, he seemed to know nothing about that but all about "Obama gate" - that's what brought me here today, disinformation and interest in how tech is destroying the things that make life worth living, without making too much noise about it. What made me post this is that you said you've stopped dating because of the internet, which I don't blame you for and am sympathetic to. It's just another data point in what is many data points I've noted in the crumbling fabric of 'western society' for lack of a better word. I refrain from hyperbole but none of this is surprising to me, it seems like the natural consequence of "democratizing" information in such a widespread and easy to manipulate way. I don't know what the solution is but my gut tells me it's the biggest problem we face as social creatures.

@@stregalilith Thank you! Maine Coons are both beautiful and loyal, best breed ever. 🩷😽

You dysgenic freaks can't lie your way out of this one. Reality is your enemy, have fun fighting it.

You think men can become women? Wow that's insane!

Let’s call it what it is: grooming. They’re literally grooming young boys and men into these loosely defined communities. Also, I think this idea that progress is a natural linear progression needs to be smashed into pieces. With my early education, it was presented that way to me too…until I got to university and really learned and discussed more about American politics and the unsanitized version of it. You start to break things apart critically, investigate and ask questions. What’s really sad is how these communities intentionally foster this circular logic that creates this bubble and it’s cult-like. I see the same thing with a number of religious communities (definitely all the fundamentalist ones)

Individual growth is almost always much faster than cultural growth. Cultural growth requires that lots of people make the same inner changes at the same time, and the odds are against it. Crisis can speed things up, or put people in shock & make them backtrack. Take heart, folks. Despite the incels' backlash against feminism, gen Z threw out the GOP in the midterms, sufficiently to give us a democratic majority in the Senate, specifically in regards to the abolishment of abortion rights. Incels are loud so we notice them, but gen Z, by and large is feminist, & the last elections show this.

Straight white male lol

She is a male bashing feminist who hates men

I think this cluster of themes has been around a long, long time. I saw it in 1960’s era pulp Science Fiction. The internet attracts men, and so does Sci-fi.

I think it's important to explain what is meant by feminism. It is simply equal rights for women. I think many, if not most, men would agree with this but don't identify as feminists. They wrongly think of feminism as women superiority which certainly exists but that's a whole other thing

Naama Kates and William Costello are far more informed on the subject

​@@viekent Your opinion about what Feminism is completely worthless. I would urge you to keep it to yourself.

@@queenamidala3620 which part do you take issue with?

I agree. But I would expand this thought. Misogyny is the one thread that weaves throughout history, cultures and geography. Are there any areas in the world where women are not oppressed, suppressed or fighting the glass ceiling?

@@LCamp-cr7fs Hi L. Camp, thanks for your comment. Misogyny is one of several concepts that have an enduring presence throughout time and place. I mention misogyny because that was the premise of this episode of offline.

@@viekent I am in my seventies. That is old enough to remember that women didn’t wear pants in the workplace, didn’t get a prescription for the pill if unmarried, didn’t get scholarships for many sports, were offered secretarial positions with an MBA, couldn’t get a savings account, mortgage or credit card, etc. I realize that we have come a long way (baby) toward equality. But we seem to be moving backward again. I have to remind you that equality has not been codified, that affirmative action has been weakened, and that public misogyny raises its ugly head. That is just the US, a first world country. It’s so much worse in many other parts of the world.

@@weston.weston Yes, I found the episode extremely interesting.

Only one Party is proud of segregation; 'war on women' 'war on color' in southern states since 2000 Tea Party days. Property ownership just one example.

Check out the number of followers people like Jordan Peterson, Charlie Kirk and Ben Shapiro have online. Marjorie Taylor Green gets all dressed up when she talks to them, very provocative.

@@juditrotter5176 huh whats wrong with jordan though??

​@@MarvoloSalazarthe fact you don't know 🤦🏼‍♀️

@@ASMRyouVEGANyet that username tells me all I need to know though

Oh no, men are refusing to continue to suffer in silence! That's so gross!

True. I hear these attitudes from married straight men at work.

I don't think we really care what women think

@@Joshua-eo5hr Well. It sounds like something is wrong with you then. Hope you get better someday.

@@GGoAwayy Why is it always the weak men standing up for females? You hear this from men at work because bitxhes ain't shit. This is normal behavior from most men unless you're gay and paint your nails.

​@@Joshua-eo5hrFinally! An incel who will admit his faults and insecurities! Good to know there is at least one of you out there.

Agreed. It undergirds so much about our human need for connection and belonging, and our dangerous propensity for destruction when our feelings get hurt. Wars have been fought because of tender egos like this.

i posted something similar, but a little broader scoped. It's about power and control in general, and while this podcast is great, they have blind spots even to their own social media addictions. They seem surprised that they got rid of the blue chcks and people are still mad, because it was never about the blue check marks in the first place. It's just another increment in the attempt to shift power dynamics.

You assume that will help him in society? Curious. Why? Most people your age--not all, but most--grew up in a very different, much easier society where finding work was easy (multiple job offers), buying a house was possible, and women had values. Or at least, more values. Society doesn't value well rounded people. It values exploiters and people who will walk over others to get ahead. And hyper specialisation. Which is only possible through mass exploitation.

You're doing good, Granny Nancy, and your grandson will always have you in his head and heart to guide him.

He is so much better off with your help and concern. Thank you for being a part of his life.

@@O1OO1O1 What a small, scary view of the world you have. And it's very wrong. Let's go point by point: The economic reality of older generations does not change the need for kindness and understanding. Indeed, every Era has valued kindness, and Grannies have been revered for their wisdom since before writing was invented. Only a fool ignores his Grandma. Society does value well rounded people, and in fact many professions emphasize broad learning as well as specific areas of expertise. Among these are doctors and nurses, teachers, mental health professionals, marketers and advertisers, artists and musicians, industrial designers, content creators, financial advisors, community outreach professionals, and a lot more. As well as these professions our society has several areas of academic study which specifically emphasize broad learning, like sociology, childhood development, history, and environmental biology. Modern American society collects power with wealth, and that does come from exploitation for the most part. But I would argue that the people who hold power are far removed from the rest of us, and so who we value in our daily life is different than what large scales look like. Personally, I value the kindness of my local shop keeper, and the guy who delivers the packages always has a joke. I value the insight and support of my friends and family. Society is made up of people by definition, and I think what people value is much more personal that your statement allows for. Hyper specialization is a product of the world being complicated, and there's no other way to get things done. It takes about 10 years or 10,000 hours to become an expert in something, and there are SO many complicated things in the world. Did you know there are like 20 different kinds of mortar to use when building? And that if you use the wrong kind, your building will collapse? That's just sand and water, basically, and even that requires expert experience. Imagine how complicated the human body is, or how to transfer a signal from the ground to space and back, or how to make an air conditioner. The world is complicated and super specific, and expertise is how we made the advancements we have today. I think your view of the world is too tech based and you're only looking at that side of our society. Remember, most people don't care about Twitter, and society is not accurately reflected anywhere online. You can only learn so much about people and who they are and what they care about from behind a screen.

@@O1OO1O1 And the biggest flaw in your statement, women had more values in the past? That is indicative of several biases you hold and a deep misunderstanding of women's history. Tell me, is it a moral stance to do something under threat of violence? If you are told shoveling horse manure is a good and noble thing, and if you don't do it you will be beaten, does shoveling manure mean you have the right values? You ignore the reality millions of women still face around the world, which is that for most of history women were consisted property. In America, women couldn't open their own credit card until 1978, and weren't included in medical studies until 1994. So, are you advocating for sexual slavery? Is that the kind of values you wish were still present? Or, maybe that's too harsh for you and you'd rather women just bear abuse and financial servitude in silence? I wonder what YOUR Granny thinks of that, and what she has suffered in silence. Maybe you should ask her and really try to listen to what she says. Remember, only a fool ignores his Granny.

O.k then get some self-esteem, know your worth, GET OFF THE INTERNET!!!! GROW SOME BALLS!

Shes gonna be our f toy soon ^-^ WE WILL TEAR DOWN THIS MEANINGLESS SOYCIETY!

I guarantee most of us "incels come from single mother homes... no dad's... so don't blame mysoginy my mother chose mysoginy for father of her child me... she chose to be used as a "cumbucket" and decided to keep the baby of the boy that treated her like this... abortion was an option but she wanted this boys baby so much... she had no respect for herself or for her child... she deprived me of a father... she a disgusting little rat... she raised me to be feminine which in turn has made women only like me for one reason and that's because I'm a doormat... rage!!!! she raised her child to be a failure out of misplaced animosity towards me when it should have been directed at my father... as a result I have deemed her not my mother she just a cumslag and she will be deprived of her firstborn child... and I will end this piss poor mix of DNA for betterment of humanity... her retarded choice shall not go on in the human populous it makes me feel good to know this is why I am here... to end the cycle of suffering.

​@@MojiMikatoyou're talking about a BABY like this. Go ahead. You only expose yourself.

@@MojiMikato not cool man ....

Over 60% of men under age 35 are incels in the US and these people in the clip pretend that they are all exremists. Even better: As soon as the men had a gf, they will stop being extremists according to these incredibly stunning and brave people that I personally have imense respect for.

My daughter was born in 1982

​@@nancyhayes1836Good on you for teaching boundaries while also teaching compassion and respect of others. I don't get the other mom's take on it, at all.

I wish more parents were like you. My grands wanted to play school the other day. So they taught their classes on kindness. The 4.5 year old was presenting "case studies" and asking "is that nice? " it was adorable! When she said that one kid hugged another kid and asked "was that nice? " I responded (I think) differently than she expected. I said "it depends. If he wanted a hug, yes. If he didn't, then no." And recalled a time when she didn't want to hug me and I was OK with it. I think it's important to teach children boundaries - how to set them and how to respect others'. And that they have bodily autonomy. (Obviously with children, that are times you may have to touch them in the course of their care even if they don't want to be touched, but plenty of times they should be able to decline offers of touch - hugs, kisses, etc. if they want.) Changing entrenched culture is difficult and takes a very long time. Thanks for being on the forefront!

​@Esmerelda Peabody Jones I love this!

Good on you! ❤

Laura did linguistic analysis which is almost certainly not the best way to study the group, because they make a lot of gallows humor. Richard Reeves has some really great videos on Big Think that imo cover the topic in a more wholistic and less pessimistic way, and doesn't focus on the most extreme fringes of the larger issues causing the problems. Because a lot of people don't understand the purpose of the first video titled Male Inequality Explained by an Expert, he starts by talking about solutions, and ends with the issue he wants to address, which is the mental health crisis in boys/men.

She lumps Men's Rights Activists into the same category as incels. She doesn't know what she's talking about. Males have the freedom to advocate for themselves without being called incels. Don't believe everything she says.

​@@Pistolita221women also have mental health issues. We havent created a cult of violence against men. Don't sympathize with misogynists.

@ASMRyouVEGANyet so your solution is what? Criminalize the idea? Thought crimes, for the good of the people. A tool that can never easily be misused, and is always effective for counter-culture suppression. 10/10, therapy is not the solution, the cops are.

@ASMRyouVEGANyet or are you suggesting the limp wrist of social shame to de-radicalize counter-cultuer? Lmao, government therapy is the fastest solution to deradicalization. It is for all cults, and incels (self ID 'members') are a cult.

I've noticed that when I Google a subject, I get accurate Healthcare information, perhaps because I'm a Healthcare Professional. When my roommate who has visited sites with alternative medicine, is directed to Conspiracy sites with misinformation. The algorithms affects all areas of the internet.

Algorithms don’t do anything beyond recommend content similar to content you already viewed and engaged with. This seems to more accurately describe the reason the world online seems to be hurdling toward the far right and far left parts of the internet. There’s not really a good way to get rid of them.

I love that channel!

Thanks. I will check out his channel.

They've BEEN exposing it and it's only grown stronger lol.

Streisand effect to the max lol.

@@meghan42 dude touches on so much more but his takes on these issues specifically are substantial.

It's mostly men in your family who tell you to circumcise a boy due to how it looks for their future. I've even heard to think about how the boy will feel in the locker room. Bad stuff.

YES! Something I've been preaching to every teacher and educator I can find. Starting at a young age and having a homeroom session where everyone just talks about their feelings and what they are going through. Every student will be able to see they arent the only ones going through their problems, and they'll bond together. Years down the line they'll still have those connections, and the ability to share their issues. That will reduce so many of the negative issues we have as a society. Crime, toxicity, sexual assault, etc.

@@Khronogi Exactly! It's so much more costly dealing with people after they're screwed up! I've written people, too (even Oprah!). I really think something like this could transform society. I wonder if the Department of Education would do a study(?).

I think conflict management strategies are the key. In general. In society as a whole, but as you've mentioned in the younger years being even more important,Yes! All ways and many ways! I talk to my daughter all the time about this (as i am aligning with her mother and not estranging her) its harder to show but I keep co parenting and keep holding up the greater good of what we have rather than the selfishness of my needs not getting met. And try to get my needs met else where and know i picked her mom. So I gave to continue to choose her even tho i don't want to. Tough stuff.

This is really what story time or circle time is. What's often harder for educators is that parents aren't reinforcing these ideas and practices at home by reading to and with their kids. That way, a lot of opportunity is missed for children to learn to talk to their the people they trust the most about their feelings by discussing scenarios found in narrative. Trust me, school is already doing a tonne of work, not least because they teach the kids how to mediate their feelings through language. I can definitely see that being moved closer to the centre of the curriculum as a primary goal, but right now, it's definitely happening through various activities, reading and storytelling, especially. But reading and interpersonal communication isn't being modelled at home, unless you count being on your phone. Online communication is fundamentally different because it lacks the face to face element and therefore any real accountability. Computer usage also wrecks sleep patterns and makes people more irritable. Kids nowadays just see their parents glued to their phones and screens, rather than paper media (that doesn't have an interactive comment section) and follow suit.

*hypergamy entered the chat* Your argument is invalid.

Ohhh.... I like that line! I'm stealing it

Yes. There is no end to their extreme. Especially their hatred and divisiveness.

It goes way further back. To my knowledge, the Regan Administration is what solidified the “religious right.” There has been a RABID fervor against civil rights since before they were even introduced.

The most incredible thing is that extremists hook men (especially, not only) by their myth of masculinity but it's all very vague in their ideology. How long does it take for an average IQ person to realize that they are not even gaining anything by devolving to the cult of an extremist? How long does it take to realize that you're serving an agenda but that agenda is not even serving you?

I'm right and I'd say the same about the left. In general, media takes extreme examples to get us passionate to vote these people in office. The right thing to do is stop blaming parties ans realize it's a bigger issue.

Wait til you hear how many women and POC have been shut out of management altogether since the beginning of time. And in modern times "good men" aren't being passed over in favor of others, but the mediocre men will absolutely insist they are.

@@coachingbydaisy-cf9yr di you just mansplain?

@@coachingbydaisy-cf9yr Sure. But not everyone concerned about men's rights, men's mental health, etc is a misogynist. There are misogynists in the group, but there are also misandrists within feminism.

wtf is hard about this lmao. this is the safest shit you could possibly say

Laura Bates is a liar and this talk is all anti-male propaganda.

Other youtube channel says that 25 percent of men are sexually abused or experienced something like that at some point (mostly by men) or in childhood. So the Mee Too movement is not just about women. Lewis Hoves said he was abused in childhood and hundreds of men wrote to him that they also experienced it. So Feminists is also on the side of men.

The dynamics of gay relationships aren’t comparable to straight ones. 100% of gay males can find a partner regardless of their looks while only 10% of straight males meet the visual standards of women. Gay couples have equal responsibilities while in straight couples 100% of the responsibilities are on the male. Gay males all face the same situation in life while men live nightmarish lives and women live lives of blissful luxury

Real men don't like bitches

Last I remembered, the manosphere goes into detail of how queer people prove them right, i.e. gay men aren't sexually enslaved to or attached to women, so they can be as redpilled as possible. Similarly, the statements of transpeople MTF and FTM themselves have recognized the biological aspects behind gender roles.

Misogyny goes hand in hand with homophobia so it isn't surprising that you and your friends aren't like this. On the Daily Show, they had a man discuss his book that I believe was called 'The Man Box', and it talked a lot about those correlations. Thank you for being a good person. We don't need more bigotry in the world.

@@jimmoriarty9440 Ancient Greece, Rome, the Samurai of Japan, and Central Asia say "what"? Also the Muslim World to a lesser extent....

gen y here. you know, one of those pesky boat rockers. lol. the think tanks have dispatched boatloads of "mra" shills and trolls and bots. they made sure to make plenty of them "our age" so that we a) look bad, and b) would listen to them. NOT WORKING. and the ruling bloodlines seem to hate us most of all for that. :D

The whole distasteful joke and testing the waters thing is so true. It reminds me a lot of what child groomers do 🤢

Noone of you can debunk the incel pill. All they can do is insult back. Look at the podcast

@@theragoooverlord5021 what

@@Sarah-re7cg reread my comment and listen through again. Her suggestions are silly. All they do is tie incrl nto what they hate politically. Insincere way they talk to you.

@@theragoooverlord5021 oh okay I understand what you’re saying now. When you said it can’t be debunked, I thought you were implying that their (incels) reasoning was sound. Yeah, it’s circular, it’s like a cult. You can’t “debunk” people who are married to an idea despite the contrary. The solution has to do with deradicalization and prevention. The form of deradicalization depends on how radicalized the individual in question is.

Oooooo, men are human and have problems and are capable of suffering, soooooo spooky

@@mrosskne I’m pretty sure they’re referring to the people sending death threats and glorifying mass shooters.

@@LoneWulf278 never happened

@@mrosskne It definitely did happen. 😂

@@LoneWulf278 cope :)

laura's research is very flawed, her methodology can/has been called into question.

That's a problem that has been around since time immemorial. But without good parents then life will be very difficult.

Monitor them. But don't be afraid to talk with them at their level and provide solid advice. Remember, it's a hallmark of intelligence to entertain an idea without succumbing to it.

It's a shame when older sibling or even adults tease and cajole young folk about having a "girl-friend" or a "boyfriend". It's often meant in fun, but it is just so unnecessary. Just let kids be kids.

Your sisters were children, so just perpetuating what they had seen others do. It’s up to’adults to be better. Also, ingrained sexism IS a thing in women and girls (of course)

@@TheEmbrio yes, understanding and forgivness for the older sister, would you be as charitable if it was xy instead of xx?

Reading that bullsht is cu/cked. If a man had wrote it about women, it would be hate speech, equality applies. The only good place for her books is on the campfire.

They are incapable of that. The empowering girls thing (if not advantaging them over men) is directly driven by a style of feminism which would see allowing men to empower boys as bad and needing to be controlled. That's why the problem will grow until it becomes the norm

Andrew Tate is free now

Same here.

Andrew Tate is not an 'incel' he's just some petty criminal that runs or ran a webcam sex worker business and grew rich as a result. The 'incels' are the sad blokes paying for his web cam girls. It's also a very sad state of affairs that this pimp is seen as some paragon of manhood.

@@Joshua-eo5hrdoesn’t mean the context he puts out is any better or less damaging than it was.

@@Levelochef he a positive influence on young men

I prefer not to be accused of fake SA

Always keep the door open, and if confidential, bring a buddy

It’s actually better for the women as well. Personally, I wouldn’t want to be alone with a strange man either. It’s a win-win. No risk all around.

One of my colleague's father died of flu in the 30s and her mother had to support the family as a college teacher. She was cut first when there were staff reductions because "the men need the jobs to support their families." It never changes.

My only male friends are gay ❤ I love gay men ❤ the only men I feel truly safe and loved. I wish you all the best ✨

Have you ever wondered why you always consider women's feelings first, and men's never?

@@iLilith11 Digusting sexist

@@iLilith11 so which straight guy hurt you??

She clearly knows nothing about the manosphere. She thinks incels are red pill, they're not. Only 2 pills in the manosphere, and she guessed the wrong one.

There are comments here now from people so deep into their community that theyre using their own slang as if anyone outside their bubble has a clue what those words even mean.

@@GGoAwayy incels are one of the most insular communities on the web, and also probably one of the greatest causes of suicide in the west.

Well, if they don't become a threat to anyone, does it matter if they have a healthy relationship? Is that your responsibility? Just like people wasting away in jail, these people will either go round in circles with the dark paths they are following, or at some point find a way out. Maybe it's just a phase they're going through.

@@tomsmith6513 Responsibility? Isn't that just asking if we should care about other people? Im fine if thats everyones responsibility. Maybe it should be.

@@GGoAwayy I think it would be a waste of energy to worry about people who 1) aren't a threat to you 2) are over 18 years old and therefore adults 3) are probably capable of finding a way out of whatever "dark place" they are in (the ones who can't are just "losers" or mentally ill) The communities these people form might be seen as a kind of "purgatory," a place of self-torment and self-punishment (whether they see it that way or not). People going through a dark phase in life often need to vent their frustrations somewhere. Live your life. Let it be their problem.

Men are killed more often than women men account for the majority of homelessness no one cares about men.

Yet men are the victim of violent crime and murder at a much higher rate.

How many people - boys did you get empowerment from when you excluded them in your lifetime( for better men) when you were younger ??.

What about all the vulnerable boys and men who are exploited? Do you gaf about them? You are literally perpetuating sexism. The world is NOT SAFE FOR POOR AND MARGINALIZED PEOPLE. regardless of gender.

stunnin and brave

So you think men are inferior and need to be kept down, but you don’t think women are capable of keeping them down and that only men have what it takes to destroy and oppress men. So how are they inferior ?

@@HankWilliams-kp3io She never said that.

But it’s the core belief of feminism.

@@HankWilliams-kp3io What is?

I'm 60, father of a girl and a boy. My son is now 17. I teach my son every single day to: 1) Focused on him self, his studies, his future job, his career, his friends, his hobbies and make a lot of sport. 2) No short, medium or long term relationship with modern women. 3) No co-habitation with a woman or girl. 4) No marriage (NEVER). 5) No kids (NEVER). 6) No donate sperm (NEVER). 7) Sex? Only occasional sex provided by criminal feminism with sex liberation. These are the rules that all father on this hearth have been teaching to their sons (male). So the problem that you wathced here is more and more an more and more and more and more big!!! It is the consequence of this criminal feminism. You NEVER talk about the mistake of feminism. "Femin-ism" for media and politics is a movement without guilt, WRONG!!! Everybidy nowadays has understood the "social engineering" experiment managed by feminism. It doesn't work, wrong direction. It is Over. MGTOW is all around Us. What I teach to my dauther? The opposit!!!

In fact Jordan Peterson has many messages about being mindful of women (presented from sort of a conservative lens) that the incel community finds detestable.

The level of control and monitoring you’re proposing to enforce the society you laid out would require government surveillance the likes of which the CCP could only dream of. Humans are not built for the internet because the internet has redefined humanity. The world is a radically different place than even 10 years ago, do we want to implement draconian technology laws to stifle kids ability to learn on how to interact with what will likely be an integral part of their lives. Parents can only try to inform and emphasize the importance of the real world. Seeing beautiful land marks, appreciating a sunset, look for the happy little moments as the man with the best white afro would say. The problem is the internet is really good at giving just enough of the little moment to make your brain think that it just did something good.

Addiction, I suspect. Watching John and Co. defend Tok-Tok, a _toy_ connected to a competitive if not outright hostile foreign power, is a bit gobsmacking. It's just a toy, an entertainment device. It's not even unique, just very efficient. So why can't we go screenless? IMO because we're addicted. Life sucks. Plug in and check out. Also self-segregation. I want to talk to people like myself and can do it on demand. What's my immediate incentive to not do that and instead go loiter with my neighbors and reveal how little I care about local sports? I'd rather go to r/EldenRing and get excited about the latest Dex/Faith build or lore dump. Sure my community erodes but in the right now the difference in experience is enormous. We're humans. We want to be with people like ourselves but need people who are different. It's a terrible paradox.

@@HonkHonkler Which "He" are you talking about?

Here here!! I've been thinking about exactly these points for a few years. We have to accept capitalist-driven tech culture because we haven't organized enough to push safety regulations. In the name of free speech, which has been a catch-all excuse for profitable manipulation.

Regardless of what you teach boys, boys will eventually grow up. It's inevitable. You either learn to live with the devil, or . . . learn to be in conflict with it. As they say, boys will be boys. One of the things I used to do as a kid was go looking around for spiders . . . Sometimes I would blow them, poke them with a stick or just step on them for fun. Sometimes people would say, "why don't you just leave them alone? If you leave them alone, they won't bother you." Boys/men, are a bit like those spiders I used to attack and harrass. Some spiders are poisonous and can kill you with their venom. Most, however, will leave you alone if you leave them alone.

1stly, yes it does endanger everyone. 2ndly, you're not fixing this by demanding men police men in a vigilante way. Incels LOVE being told they're wrong, backwards, evil. They HATE being told they deserve anything other than spite. They need real professionals to help them, they are mostly a danger to themselves, because it's a suicide cult, but suicides aren't good for anyone.

Thank you. The only way these lost guys are going to listen, is if it comes from a male. They hate women, so anything said to them by a woman will just go in the ear, out the other, and into the shredder. Men need to stand up against this!

That would be in violation of free speech, if you ask me. The same way as how it would be ridiculous to stop TV shows from showing off criminal behaviour. There are countless shows where murder is treated as justified in service of revenge, like John Wick, but those are not in danger of being barred, because of the writers' rights to free speech. There is also the fact that suppression of this sort usually just leads people to double down and feel vindicated as being on the revolutionary cutting-edge--- the logic is usually something like 'They cut my tongue out because they are afraid of what I might say.' They will usually just move to more obscure venues and develop more extremist views, even though their numbers may be smaller. What I think should happen instead is that such sites should be left alone generally, so that there's no illusion of 'silencing the revolutionaries' but should be made more difficult to reach for impressionable young people, basically, parents and guardians should take a bit more responsibility for what their kids look at, like with everything else.

look at every news article. every talking point. even her response in this video. it all comes from white supremacy and white privilege. thats the problem the answer to all problems these days. the white male is literally used as the bogeyman in everything today. and if your that, then you are the problem. and now they have it as unconscious biased and racism so your bad even if you want to do good. how are young males supposed to feel? they are literally gaslighting males who complain they are unfairly being grouped.

I can acknowledge that there are a lot of miserable white men, but their "suffering" is dwarfed by the people who are really oppressed; I don't think they are true victims. But white men don't become the villains because of external oppression, but because of their own choices in response to a gender polarized world. There are a lot more white male allies to oppressed groups who don't need everything to be all about themselves and their own pain, they deal with their own pain by working against suffering of all kinds, rather than thinking that they are the most oppressed group and are justified in creating suffering for others, specifically women whom they blame for all of their problems. The incel mindset is a kind of arrested juvenile set of behaviors which is a choice to be in a pack of juvenile male predators who justify their actions based upon their hurt feelings rather than to grow up and become a contributing member of society and able to put the needs of others first as good mates and parents of both sexes need to learn to do. People who want to end misogyny aren't by definition into misandry, rather they want an end to both and want a society that embraces everyone and encourages everyone to learn to be caring to everyone else. You don't learn to become a grownup contributing member of society by focusing on your own suffering, but by helping to make the world a better place for others.

Same

Legalize and regulate prostitution. I think that would solve some of this.

But what so many of these boys are lacking is an intimate relationship and the freedom to be loved while being themselves. The opposite of what this ridiculous "alpha male" BS keeps going on about to sell them so much "how to be a better man" merchandise.

@Mr. M "sadly?" When did fapping go from a normal thing that humans do to something that is "sadly" done?

that's not the issue with incels. it's untreated, usually undiagnosed mental illness.

Pretty sure these people are self servicing themselves all the time to the worst of online porn. In my opinion they need some kind of thing to help them snap out of it.

It's usually not just one.

My parents generation (maybe mine via reruns) grew up with the image of 1950s/60s/70s sitcoms to model what relationships are. That was our media, for good or bad. A lot of easy things to point out about how bad that was about gender roles and how white suburbia focused it all was.

But its a whole different game when you talk about the media kids now are being raised on. No sitcom made anyone think rape was okay. There is no barrier in place between kids and the most extreme pornography thats ever been made. It twists their worldview. It shapes HOW they have sex when they actually DO have sex. It shapes what they will say within their relationships, how they will view and interpret events and gestures. Its a completely twisted view of intimacy and love. Im afraid of how messed up their brains are and the idea theyll be in charge of the world when Im old and frail.

Shut up you can't even spell divorce now that's sad

Why wouldn't they because their wives decided they are not happy, OR those women secretly planned to divorce them all along just to take men's money and children from them? Either way, the state treats them worse than slaves. I can talk because I was married and am now divorced with no desire for a second go around. Men are treated like shit by women, and the state. That will be repaid, and it will not be good good for everyone. That is why MGTOW is expanding so quickly across the world.

Wives cheat on husbands with guys like Andrew Tate.... That is another reason why men respect him.

I'm so sorry that you've been terrible informed here by two people with icnredible bias. There were little sprinkles of truth here and there, but then those were also twisted. You sadly didn't learn a thing.

I've listened to Tate and some of his messages are extremely problematic.

He's popular because his ideas have merit.

@@anonplussedhuman2615 No they're not.

Well, I can see that there’s no room in your brain for considering a balanced relationship. We’re both male and female are working on self improvement and creating the best relationship between them possible dude we have all been burned! Rather than eliminating more than half of humanity from your life, why don’t you try growing up and learning what you can from people like this lady. At no point does she ever suggest that men or less than woman or inferior in any way. What she is saying is that men are victims to this mentality, and it’s dangerous to them, as well as to the women that they victimize. You sound pretty young and you’re just gonna be a bitter man. I can’t imagine happiness for you if you continue with that train of thought and attitude. Get some help man. It’s out there.

based

Balanced? She outright claims that the entire manosphere is misogynist. That's no more true than a guy claiming all feminists hate men.

Bingo. Father isn't present and mother coddles the son. Some grows up with issues from that.

Beau’s channel is fantastic 👏👏

@@menmykrazycat8129 Yes! Great at explaining stuff in a way that everybody can understand, wide variety of topics, a bit snarky sometimes but never mean and (for me) the perfect format (3 to 12 minutes videos) The other two are "short" format, too (& worth checking, of course)

@@menmykrazycat8129 He did a video on this called Let's talk about what men can learn about masculinity from women....

Yes! The Speech Prof is a good one too. A tad bit snarky sometimes tho.

@@sonja4164 Intersting... will check this one... And keep the suggestions coming!!

Being Dutch myself, having legal prostitution available helps too. Also against sexual assaults and more benefits, like taxes or them being tested frequently for STDs. People are human beings and some can't cope with not being able to 'do it', maybe some of them will get out of their circle that way.

These men are growing in number for a reason, and that reason isn't recruitment and marketing. These men are seeing the world they are in and trying to cope and enjoy themselves. Their communities don't realt concern you or I. Our input isn't important to them and you can't arrest all of them.

@@buckaroobonzai2909they’re not trying to cope, they’re trying to actively burn it all down. As a father of a daughter and sons, this terrifies me.

There are mostly people from all around the world in these communities, not just white, I can’t believe she thought this all this time. The average user in these communities are middle eastern men…

The real life consequences of men killing themselves by thousands are so terrifying for women

Things are literally getting worse lol.

She means they’re making process in destroying things they view as evil; men, heterosexual people, Europeans, families, trees, wild animals etc. What she doesn’t realise is that the goal in unsustainable, like a cancer killing its own host expecting the experience to last forever

@Honk Honk you're thinking too small-scale. Remember how after slavery was abolished in the US and black people actually started holding positions in government or accumulating wealth, but then politicians made Jim Crow laws to disenfranchise them and rid them of their new-found power? It's similar to what's happening in our current times. Because when real progress and power are given to marginalized folks in this country, those in positions in power will double down and find a way to hoard it even more. Yet despite the back and forth, overall we're moving in a more progressive and just direction. Just think of how much societal and political attitudes have changed in the past 200 years in terms of visibility of lgbtq folks, expansions in voting rights, women advancing in education and the workplace, the civil rights act and non-discrimination laws. We still have a lot of problems, but in terms of social equality we are objectively in a better place than 200 years ago and that's something to be hopeful about.

​@@HonkHonkler For whom and from what angle?

@@Khronogi for men. Since the 90’s men have been getting fucked in education way worse than women

that's not a observation it's repeating an often used quote

What's disturbing about people who are suffering?

So long as your sons IQ is reasonable, he’s going to find out the truth about women one way or the other

@@HankWilliams-kp3io Be a low effort troll somewhere else.

I wouldn't necessarily take his phone and computer away but maybe regular sit downs to discuss it? Although it's great to have breaks away from the technology even if it needs to be forced

@@Khronogi I’m saying that’d be my knee jerk reaction, not my literal action. We’ve always communicated about these things and as dull and boring as I find it I’ve tried to keep up with his interests so as I’m informed about what’s happening. I think we’re doing okay.

@@HankWilliams-kp3io what’s ‘the truth about women’? I also find there is a correlation between people who constantly refer to IQ and an actual lack of intelligence. Hopefully that’s not ‘the truth about’ all Hank Williams’.

Haters & freaks who just love being angry about anything & everything. Cute doggo btw! 🙂☮️

Don't even post pictures of your Dog. I don't post ANY pictures of myself or anyone else I know on Social Media. I browse the Web like I did in the 2000's (+ Security in mind): DO NOT post information about yourself on Social Media. At all.

They aren't basement dwellers

@@adamturner3797 You’re right, sorry, they’re cellar dwellers.

@@michelebella677 nope not cellar dwellers at all. They are human like others

easy solution: paternity test(all you need to get is a strand of said child's hair if u have doubts).

Incels have an insular way of communicating, she didn't take the time to understand their insular way of communicating so she didn't create a reliable language model, William Costello is doing research on self-identified incels, and imo it's much higher quality work. I haven't paid any real attention to the 'manosphere' for a a very long time, but even I know that incels are black pilled, not red pilled. Red-pillers are pick up artists, black pillers are poison pilled, they're fatalist/cynics who don't try to make connections anymore. If she can't get that right how am I supposed to believe she understands them well enough to make an effective language model?

I don't think that would really effect them, they'd probably laugh at it. They need therapy and patient friends, not platitudes, not basic common advice, not chastising.

Males have a primary lived experience just like you do, I hardly think continuing to make every aspect of lives about your pathological expectations of their "behavior" will be an effective pitch; so ironic, you claim to suffer from misogyny and yet, to you, boys and men are so inhuman to you that centering yourself in THEIR SUICIDES doesn't even register to you as a questionable proposition. Maybe you should try listening for once, it may come as a shock to you but actually feminism doesn't have a monopoly on male experience and your presumed understanding of their lives is every bit as arrogant as it is ignorant.

On 1980s bbses had all sorts of misinformation and conspiracy thinking, but there was no coordinated pipepline and in the end very few people took the conspiracists seriously.

Digital natives isn’t just online at a young age. Digital native is having the internet and digital technology in nearly every aspect of your life. The first thing kids learn to do before walking is manipulate digital technology today. That’s a radically different upbringing than any millennial or even most of Gen Z had, Gen alpha (the kids born after 2010ish) are going to be wildly different humans.

@@justsomedude77 you say this asi f it didnt apply to me. How did i meet people? over the modem. How did i get music? over the modem. How did i entertain myself? over the modem. Just because i learned hayes command sets doesnt mean it wasn't all online.

@@jsrodman It doesn't apply to you. Im well aware dial up existed. That's not EVERY aspect of your existence growing up. You went to school without a laptop in front of you. Im guessing you learned to read before you interacted with a computer, instead of learning to read ON a computer. These distinctions are what make kids digital natives, as in the digital world is one in which they were born and have not known a world without.

Thats extremely arbitrary. I leatned thae majority of mynlife skills digitally from a young age. Just because we didnt have portable displays doesnt mean digital life wasnt woven into every aspect of my life.