@@Sizdothyx You're exactly right. Dikembe + Tyson Chandler have both also won and been second team. I found those by accident and wasn't even looking. I'm sure there are more if you go down the full list of DPOY. The moral of the story is that there need to be an elite few objective voters who give votes. Most media members, former players, and coaches are all incredibly inconsistent and illogical with their voting. There should be 11 - 15 smart people who make these picks so the awards actually mean something.
If you win DPOY I think you should be automatically in the all defensive first team. Like how do you win DPOY and you're not even in the all defensive first team? Makes no sense at all.
It should be the other way in that case. Coaches voted their first and second teams and depending on that then, if they wanted the media to vote the DPY award, they vote from the first team players. If it"s how you say, then you allow media to vote whoever they want and this problem of having gasol winning the award without deserving it, happens and they would have placed Gasol on the first team without deserving it, in the coaches opinion.
Marc Gasol is a bum defensively. The media are Jordan fanboys who can’t stop sniffing Michael Jordan jockstrap religiously. Lebron James was the best defensive player that year. Marc gasol ain’t even in the conversation for best defensive player let alone best defensive big 💯
NBA: you were the best defensive player this year Gasol: so that means that I was the best defensive player at my position as well right? NBA: No you're not even the second best at your position
@@dlowjames4549 it's easy to play defense knowing you have a team of d wade and Bosh 2 very good defenders in their positions. Just take Draymond green for example the dude won defensive player of the year cause he played with so many great players and now that those players were gone this season his defense didn't loook defensive player of the year worthy
Agendas, agendas, if they voted without agendas LeBron would have 1 DPOY and 2 more MVPs. But some NBA folks don't wanna acknowledge greatness cuz they refuse to admit anyone is as good as MJ 🤷🏿♂️
This was the year that COJ said Lebron quit defnese after he didn't win DPOY, which he arguably should have won that year. 2013 LeBron was on another level.
Kinda understandable. Imagine putting all your effort to be the best At both ends and not getting rewarding because the Award was rigged. I would've been furious
You can make the case for other players winnning DPOY, but Gasol definitely deserved it. He had the best numbers per defensive metrics on the Grizzlies that were the 2nd best defense in the league. He also led the NBA in Defensive Box Plus/Minus.
Anyone who knows what they’re looking at in great defensive players, knows that Marc Gasol is one of the great defensive players over the past decade. When people talk about Tyson Chandler being all that, I know they’re going off of reputation and don’t realize that he’s a lockdown defender. Gasol never hoarded rebounds, and left himself out of position on defense. He never chased down blocks. He can not only be the main cog of your defense, but can be also be an excellent help defender. I’ve never seen a guy with his size (weight especially) be able to switch so quickly, and down players to the 3pt line, then recover quickly enough to contend in the paint. Guys like Howard, Ben Wallace, Chandler, Mourning, Mutombo, etc, didn’t have that great switching ability. They looked great because they defensive schemes funneled everything to get them blocks. They’re more stationary than anything. Gasol is more in line with Russell, Thurmond, Olajuwon, and peak David Robinson when it comes to mobility; or he’s closer to this group in that regard than to the other group mentioned. He also does tons of little things, that never show up in the stats. He never cheats when it comes to positioning. There’s a reason it worked with he and Randolph all of those years. Randolph’s defensive reputation was non-existent before settling in with Gasol; Gasol covered a TON for him.
@@emmapeel38 There's a great quote I heard describing Sergio Busquets from Barcelona that can also be applied to Gasol's defensive game, "if you watch the whole game, you might not notice him, but if you only watch him, you'll see the entire game." Gasol doesn't make highlight plays or put up ridiculous numbers but he's just so smart and understands positioning better than most. I also love how he and Ibaka both speak Spanish to each other when communicating on defense to confuse opponents.
@@ParkerBai92 His understanding of ‘TEAM’ basketball, is off the charts. When the Raptors got him last year, I truly felt he was exactly what they needed. He’s sort of like Bill Walton with the Blazers - and to what you said - without the ridiculous numbers. He’s like water out there, and his game is infectious. Passing, ball movement, spacing, everything. He’s the opposite of Pau, wherein Pau gets credit via stats with what he does. Pau will get into the HOF, and Marc won’t, but I would rather have Marc on my team any day of the week. Marc is a MAN, Pau is a prince that leaks teams’ problems to the press.
For a long time, I thought that Marc Gasol was screwed over when he didn't make the All-Defensive 1st Team. Now I see that he probably shouldn't had won DPOY in the first place. Now that I remember, LeBron James and Serge Ibaka were on another level defensively that year.
Gasol led the Grizzlies to the number 1 defense in the league in ppg allowed while playing in the tougher Western Conference against more higher-scoring teams. Gasol played better defense on Blake Griffin, Ibaka, and Duncan than Lebron did to anyone in the 2013 playoffs.
@@scoop2448 playoffs is not a regular season award, the grizzlies were full of defensive minded beasts in the starting 5, grit and grind was their core play
Neither Gasol nor Lebron should've been 1 or 2. Battier was checking all the best players on Miami and the media was over glorifying lebron chase down blocks and he wasn't averaging 1 block a game
Lebron is 5x all defensive first team 5x candidate for defensive player of the year and tony allen is memphis best defensive player he is a 3x all defensive first team and 3x all defensive second team
Andrew Franklin Marc gasol is one of the best all around players in the league and Ibaka is one of the best two way centres not really but gasol not his old all nba but serge is better than ever
The grizzlies was no.1 defensively that year, and gasol is the anchor of that defense, communicating defensively, putting teammates in right position, disrupting more shots just by being in the right position
Lebron should the been the DPOY in 2013 & MVP in 2020. They don’t want to give it to Lebron because if they are bias to MJ & Lebron debate. Bron will be the first man to have 40kpoints 10K rebounds & 10K assists. Nobody can say that including Jordan.
@Brandon uh, you're forgetting that playing defense also help them win games, not just for awards. Lebron simply put more effort on certain defensive plays, just not all the time. He was just focusing his energy more on the offensive side since he's the main focus. Although he did win the chip that year so whatever..
Gasol wasn't undeserving, but Tony Allen definitely was the best defensive player that year and he for some reason wasn't even a finalist. Gasol should have been 2nd team though. Tyson Chandler got all those first team votes because the idiot media voted him 2nd team the previous year and decided to overcompensate the next season. Tyson and the Knicks defense as a whole was a lot worse in 2013 than it was in 2012. Joakim, Marc, and Larry Sanders were clearly the 3 best defnsive centers that year and it's a shame that voters always try to compensate for past mistakes in following seasons.
The voting system makes no sense but the media probably got it right that time, Marc was the best defensive player that year according to DBPM and D-PIPM. Sanders does have a case but Lebron really doesn't. Frankly DPOY is an award that should only be given to centers because of the innate value of rim protection.
@@SamReynols There probably are advanced metrics that show Gasol as better. I was using defensive rating on basketball reference which gave them the same score. www.basketball-reference.com/teams/MEM/2013.html Because perimeter players tend to guard players with the ball, switch a lot more , and have a wider range of court to cover, they are involved in more scoring possessions and tend to have worse defensive ratings than centers. The fact that Tony Allen had the same defensive rating as Gasol of 98 is incredibly impressive considering that he guarded the opponents best perimeter player. I'm sure I can find other metrics that show Allen was better. They both had impressive seasons, Allen was the best pick to me.
This is a nonsensical argument given the fact that NBA coaches have voted Kobe Bryant into all-defensive teams when he was clearly not deserving of the award year after year, more due to reputation than defensive output. Although it's a singular example, I think it's indicative of the fact that coaches rely much more on preconceived notions and reputation of a player, trying to give them "respect", rather than trying to adhere to what they actually did that particular season. It's a joke that he got selected in the 05-07 and 10-12 all-defensive teams. The only year where he truly deserved it post-Shaq was 08, in my opinion. In 09 and 10, he was playing much more of a lackadaisical free safety role that would occasionally be pretty cool for help defensive highlights, but was not particularly effective on the defensive end. Additionally, let's not also forget the fact that despite Shawn Marion leading the league 4 times in defensive win shares between 01-07 among guards and forwards, he was never once selected to an all-defensive team, despite clearly being a markedly more impactful and an arguably better defensive player than the likes of Tayshaun Prince in those years. There are other names he was certainly better than in those years, including D Wade, Chauncey Billups, and Kobe Bryant if we also want to include guard spots (since years like 2004 there are 4 forward/center all-defensive lineups). Another example would be the case of Andre Iguodala, who was robbed of an all-defensive team in 2012 selection despite being perhaps the best isolation wing defender that season (LeBron was the better overall wing defender though, no doubt). He averaged more steals than personal fouls (only 1.5 personal fouls for every 1.7 steals). On a team with a 32 year old, 6'8 Elton Brand as their center, the 76ers were 3rd in defensive rating, which is almost unheard of without a really good defensive anchor at center, but this was largely due to the swarming perimeter defense of Iguodala that season. Iguodala was 3rd in defensive rating among guards and forwards that season (only behind Josh Smith and LeBron), 2nd in DBPM that season among guards and forwards, and 3rd among guards and forwards in defensive win shares. It's absurd that he was not selected over Kobe Bryant. So when NBA coaches have a track record of making ignorant decisions such as this, it holds no weight to me whatsoever what the inconsistencies are between media and the coaches are. Marc Gasol deserved DPOY that year. Anchoring a dominant defensive team as a center holds more weight than all the possible help defense a superb wing defender could possibly hope to provide, despite how gaudy their moments of anticipation and reading of passing lanes may be. Defending the rim and quarterbacking a whole defense, particularly the 2nd best defense in the whole league, is no easy feat. Giving the award to LeBron, who had a team 9th in defensive rating compared to the Grizzlies' 2nd in defensive rating team, is like giving Marcus Camby DPOY over Tim Duncan in 2007, despite Camby anchoring the team with the 11th highest defensive rating in the league. I will give credit where credit is due though, and say Ibaka and LeBron were superb defenders that year in their own right, however you also discount the fact that Perkins was still a plus defensive center and Thabo Sefolosha was widely considered one of the best wing defenders at the time, too. Yes, Gasol's supporting cast was a few hairs better, but I don't think Conley-Allen-Prince-Randolph compared to Westbrook-Sefolosha-KD-Perkins is so much better to consider Gasol's defensive support as a wildly unfair advantage. The only spot where I think there's a clear discrepancy is Allen vs Sefolosha, but like I said, Sefolosha was a pretty damn good defender in his own right at the time. As for the other players, such as Sanders, Noah, and Duncan who were other bigs in contention for the DPOY spot this year, I'll leave em alone because I don't want to make this longer than it needs to be. Point is, Gasol deserved it. 1st in the league in DBPM, 2nd in DWS, 4th in DRTG, and anchoring the second best defensive team that year as their defensive quarterback is enough to tell me he's DPOY for 2012-13, plain and simple. And, the good old eye test re-confirms the same nerdy analytics shit.
With all due respect, what the hell are you talking about? Did you not watch the video? Or understand what the point of it was? The video isn't called "Here's Why Gasol Shouldn't Have Been DPOY", so why are you writing a dissertation on why Gasol "deserved" DPOY? which is just your opinion.
@@BasketballExamined Hey, thanks for the response. Just to let you know, I am a fan of the channel, but that doesn't mean I don't have constructive, albeit nitpicky criticism. I was perhaps a bit off-the-rail with my initial comment, so I would rather you respond to this one if you have the time, where I stay more on topic in response to the details of your video. I watched the video in full. The point is that I disavow the fact that coaches interpretation of who deserves all-defensive selections is one that is seen as indicative of their defensive prowess in each season, given the fact that they have failed to make the right decision over and over again. To quote what you said in your introduction, "in today's video, we'll be looking at how the NBA rigged the 2013 all-defensive team for Marc Gasol". This statement, in a vacuum, is correct, but some of the implications one (such as parroting the narrative that Serge or LeBron deserved DPOY over Gasol) may get out of the video are not always what the creator intended, so I am sorry if I came off as aggressive and dismissive of your whole video. To be fair, though, in the outro section of your video, you inject your own personal opinion into the matter by questioning if he were even the best defender in the league given his defensive supporting cast, which is a call to question the validity of his DPOY award. In addition, you add the quotation from Dwight Howard, doubting the validity of Gasol's DPOY selection, which again adds to the narrative. Howard is not a coach and he is not speaking on behalf of all-defensive selections, so his quotation there is irrelevant to the narrative of all-defensive selections, especially given the fact that Serge wouldn't take the place of a center spot on an all-defensive team, making his association to Gasol from all-defensive selection perspective irrelevant. You are absolutely right in that the NBA fucked up the voting total in regards to how Sanders, Noah, and Chandler all received more votes than Gasol, if one were to look at it from a strictly letter of the law perspective. In an objective sense, this video is absolutely right in that regard. I'm just mentioning that, in my personal opinion, giving weight to a vote from the coaches, which you would do from very strictly following the tally of the votes, who have shown time and time again to fail to reward players who deserve all-defensive selections is not worth it. Larry Sanders had more votes than Marc Gasol, that is an absolute fact. My argument in response to that is to re-direct the conversation to the fact that we place too much weight on all-defensive selections from a clearly flawed system, so making an argument that devalues an individual's accomplishments on behalf of a flawed system (like people saying, "How can Gasol be DPOY if he was only 2nd team all defense?") is something I do not agree with. Gasol, even if it were strictly from NBA saving face and dismissing the NBA coaches' voting that year in regards to all-defensive selections, deserved that all-defensive 2nd team spot over Larry Sanders. Should the voting system allow it such that this always happens? No, that would be hyper-authoritarian and delude the truth of the voters. But perhaps as just as a case study, 2013's vote is so incredibly stupid on behalf of the coaches, that a clearly DPOY-worthy center would get voted to an all-defensive 4th team (if there were such a thing), that I find the NBA's intervention into this cause to be entirely justified. So you are right in that mine is an opinion-based argument. Admittedly, the NBA media who has now taken on the responsibility of all-defensive selections, as you've shown time and time again as well on your channel, have largely fucked up voting processes as well; nobody's value judgement is infallible.
The way I see it and how it may have happened is that while he wasn’t the best overall his defense made his team that much better because of his defense. Individually he wasn’t but with contributions it won him the award.
Were you high when you watched this? He’s saying he had more total votes/points for All-Defensive Team than Gasol, and thus should have made it over Marc
um its obvious lebron shouldve won that year. one of the most blatant mis awarding in recent times. kinda similar to how malcolm brogdon got the roy award lol
Nah dude. Gasol is clearly one of the best defensive centers in the league. It shows on the Raptors. Shit the raps have both Ibaka and gasol in their center rotations lol
Marc is a great defender. I didn't watch basketball closely in 2013 so I really don't know but everything I watched of him in the last 5 years I have to say dude is a genius on defense.
@@TakablePond Tony was a spectacular defender but I think a defensive player who's playing behind the permiter defenders can control the defense more than those guys on the permiter. He see's more,he communicates more,he can correct more mistakes etc. Obviously guys on the front line are very important to but I don't think is possible to have a great defense without the great center or power forward behing controling it. On other hand,there were average or bad defenive teams that had a great defensive player but he was a PG,SG or a SF.
It's clear media didn't want Bron getting close to Jordan. It's always about this. Giannis isn't a threat to MJs legacy and probably never will be thus he won it this year with the Mvp.
tony allen 3x all defensive first team 3x all defensive second team and Lebron James 5x all defensive first team 5x candidate for defensive player of the year
If you remember anything from this season , LeBron announced before the season started he is going after the DPOY . But because he came second in voting , this does not by any means , mean that he deserves that award . Both Joakim and Chandler were defensive anchors for their team , and without them their teams would not be in playoff positions . LeBron should have been 3rd or even 4th in voting that year .
That is a huge joke. Gasol led the Grizzlies to the number 1 defense in the league in ppg allowed while playing in the tougher Western Conference against more higher-scoring teams. Gasol played better defense on Blake Griffin, Ibaka, and Duncan than Lebron did to anyone in the 2013 playoffs.
It's crazy that guys from the media are the one who votes for the all defensive team and DPOY or any other awards. Most of those dudes don't even watch the whole games, they just watch highlights smh
Tim Duncan was by far.... by a large margin, the best defender in the 2013 season. There’s one reason the Spurs didn’t win the chip that year... Tim wasn’t on the court playing defense moments before the Ray Allen shot. One players presence on defense had never been so important. That’s not the sole reason that Timmy was the best defender that year, but it does prove it. By far, and it’s not even close, Tim Duncan should’ve won the award that year. The fact y’all don’t mention it proves you didn’t watch basketball back then.
someone is gonna take a 3 there, tell me how duncan was effective there? bosh can make a 3, and lebron will. but then again lebron bricked it and duncan couldve got that rebound but then again bosh is already there boxed out
Fact is even IF gasol didn't deserve lebron 100 percent did not deserve to even be nominated for the award he was never ever close to being the leagues best defender or even the best defender at his position
Aside from Lebron, It could've went to noah and ibaka too. They chose Gasol because he was the Centerpiece and anchor of their defense. But ibaka and noah for their teams too.
It wasn't rigged against LeBron, it was bad consistency and reliability because they had media for voting for the award and coaches for the all-defensive teams. This is questions the reliability of the award that year because the numbers don't add up, it was clearly a mistake on the NBA.
I understand they have there voters in the nba but we as the fans need to start our own voting, so u would have nba votes and fans vote which would be more realistic.
i hated this year so much man, im a big lebron fan so obviously i would argue he should have gotten the dpoy but if they had given it to serge then i would have understood it but i was like, “come on, marc gasol got it, are we serious right now!?!?!?!?”
This is so wack. The nba did it cause they didn’t want bron to have the first ever perfect season(unless you count all star game mvp) I believe it’s never happened. 1st team all defense, nba first team, mvp, dpoy, champion, finals mvp. I’m pretty positive it’s never happened
The Media did not want Lebron to win DPOY coz it would match MJs achievement in 1988 as the MVP and DPOY. They don't want Lebron to have a conversation as the best in the game. And Lebron should have been the unanimous MVP as well but a media voted one for Carmelo. It was really rigged by the Media for Lebron not to overshadow MJs achievement in 1988.
The person who should have won was his Gasol`s teammate Tony Allen, but he dont get any respect as the grindfather. Locked down 1-4 no matter the size.
Tony Allen has always been overrated on defense, the man made lots of defensive assignment errors and bad gambles that often led him to be out of his defensive position that he only could recover thanks to his teammates filling in for him, and Joerger's defensive schemes and playing style. I'm not sure Allen would be as good in the current pace and space NBA era. Of course, he often used a lot of energy to go back to his man, as well as harass his defensive assignment around screens, but that doesn't mean he was doing a good job in the first place. It's like how lots of people, fans or media, rate Patrick Beverley, who is similar but littler, compared to Marcus Smart, who is a way better fundamentally sound defensive player. But because Beverley used to defend his man tighter, it sometimes worked well and created a defensive highlight, which won't happen with a more classic defensive stop, but it also didn't work as he died on screens and lost his man. I'm not saying Pat Bev was never a good defensive player, he was back in the 13-14 and 16-17 Rockets, but he looked like he talks more than he acts the last two seasons.
The title is mis-leading. The NBA didn't rig it for Gasol, they rigged it for themselves. The media members of "journalists" and former players is trash. The NBA rigged the All-NBA voting so those idiots don't look like complete fools, not because Gasol needed them to.
Yes! Finally glad a basketball RU-vidr brought this up. Always though Marc winning the DPOY over Serge and LeBron was highly suspect! I'll always point to the 2013 season when people say "LeBron's never been a good defender" or "Serge is just an average role player" because in the case of LeBron, he honestly likely should've won DPOY that year and in the case of Serge, people forget just how impactful he was on the defensive side of the court in OKC, highly underrated and had a very noticeable affect on some of their playoff runs.
It should seriously only be the players and coaches voting on stuff. They know way more than the media, example: nick wright. But also Paul pierce lol but definitely could do some percentage to the fans since NBA is a business, but not enough to completely override the players and coaches votes. An example of that is Zaza Pachulia almost becoming an All-Star as a role player/bench warmer on the warriors in 2016 or 17? Can’t remember. We laugh now but it was way closer than we all remember. I remember him LITERALLY being in the starting 5 at one point, that or right under it like 1 or 2 away from being a STARTER! IN THE ALL STAR GAME!!!! ZAZA FREAKING PACHULIA?!?!?😂 no thanks
No disrespect to Zaza even tho he injured Kawhi, but mans NOT nor never was an all star. ESPECIALLY as a role player occasional starting center for the warriors with the skill level of a solid veteran bench player who barely plays and just signs to help the younger players instead of playing
Lol lebron really is a master at making people talk about him..he keeps hearing mj won dpoy so as soon as he found the chance he just threw that there..im not saying anything its just funny..He didnt say that just to "prove his point"
Good video...wouldn't say rigged though...I remember the media/'analysts' using defensive efficiency and rim protection stats to justify Gasol as DPOY...coaches and players typically don't use analytics that way so its just a different interpretation
