How the Origin of "Nation" Connects to Myth, Language, Gender, and More (feat. Cynical Historian)

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The etymology of "Nation" leads us through the connections between race, gender, native languages, grammar, and much more. A collaboration with the Cynical Historian; watch his video about the origins of the nation state and American national myths here: • Nationalism Began in t...
Endnote on the Indo-European origins of Sanskrit • The Indo-European Orig...
Endnote on the origin of the pronoun "she" • Where did "She" come f...
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Show notes & credits: www.alliterative.net/nation
Transcript: www.alliterative.net/nation-tr...
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00:00:00 Intro
00:00:17 The etymology of "Nation"
00:02:00 Cynical Historian on the Nation State
00:02:45 The etymology of "State"
00:04:20 The etymology of "Kingdom"
00:07:11 Foundation Myths
00:08:40 National epics
00:10:20 Thomas Jefferson and Old English
00:11:48 Cynical Historian on Nativism
00:13:40 The term "Anglo-Saxon"
00:20:10 The etymology of "Race"
00:23:37 Horses and Indo-Europeans
00:25:35 Indigenous Aryans Theory
00:29:45 Domestication and the etymology of "Agriculture"
00:32:03 The etymology of "Civilization"
00:37:54 The etymology of "Genocide"
00:40:29 Native and indigenous languages
00:44:32 Linguistic prescriptivism
00:46:36 Language and dialect
00:51:04 Metaphors for relationships between languages
00:56:35 Creoles and pidgins
01:01:20 Proto-Germanic as a pidgin
01:03:55 Grammatical categories, inflections, cases
01:09:25 Grammatical gender
01:16:05 Pronouns in English

Опубликовано:

10 авг 2024

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Комментарии : 92

@Alliterative 2 года назад

Thanks to the Cynical Historian for this collab! If you aren't already watching him, you're missing out -- so start with the pair to this video: ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-UGXffvDj_E8.html about the rise of nationalism. If you'd like to support the channel, you can find our merch on Redbubble, including posters and other items with the infographic from this video: www.redbubble.com/shop/ap/97333846?ref=studio-promote Also, we have a Patreon here: www.patreon.com/TheEndlessKnot

@stratospheric37 2 года назад

Insanely high quality video with so little views!!!! What a shame. You deserve so much more, this is great.

@Alliterative Год назад

Thank you! 😊

@Artur_M. 2 года назад

Oh boy, nearly one and half hours of Alliterative video about a fascinating topic! Among the national epics shown at 8:40, there is the Polish one, _Pan Tadeusz_ by Adam Mickiewicz. It was written and first published in 1834 in Paris, where much of the Polish elites found themselves after the failed November Uprising against Russia. It starts with the line "Oh Lithuania, my homeland!" while taking place in modern-day Belarus, where Mickiewicz grew up.

@Alliterative 2 года назад

Thanks! I don’t know much about some of those other European epics, but it’s certainly interesting to see how they mostly came about right around the revolutions of the first half of the 19th century.

@milobem4458 2 года назад

The joke goes: A Russian Jew, living in France, wrote a Polish national epic about Belarus, with the opening line "Lithuania, my fatherland"

@Artur_M. 2 года назад

@@milobem4458 While I wouldn't call Mickiewicz a "Russian Jew" and he certainly wouldn't call himself that, it is true that he was technically a (reluctant) Russian subject and it is possible that his mother might have Jewish ancestry (his wife definitely had). The joke is good at illustrating the complexities of European identities through history, which I think was the point.

@Artur_M. 2 года назад

@@Alliterative BTW something occurred to me, which is also related to my other comment here. One of the insurgent leaders during the aforementioned November Uprising was a young noblewoman - Emilia Plater, immortalised as the Polish (and Lithuanian) version of Joan of Arc, in no small part thanks to Mickiewicz. Interestingly, I don't think that anyone, ever referred to her as "Platerówna". It's almost like calling her essentially "Plater's daughter" subconsciously felt wrong, when she was the most famous bearer of this surname and gained this fame through "masculine" pursuits.

@fisherstrong6 2 года назад

National mythmaking is important to the fabric of society. We’re going to find that out the hard way.

@mr51406 2 года назад

The Cynical Historian sent me here too! ⭐️ Happy to subscribe and I’m looking forward to catching up. I’m sure you know the old joke: what’s the difference between an etymologist and an entomologist? (An etymologist knows.) But also: what’s the difference between an ornithologist and an “orthinologist”? The first is a bird watcher, the second is a word botcher.

@Alliterative 2 года назад

😆

@NeilForshaw 2 года назад

I've always used "they" instead of "he/she" in sentences where the gender would not be known. I thought I was being all modern and trendy. Looks like I was actually old fashioned XD

@rincewindrocks 2 года назад

Always fun to see two of my fav channels teaming up, thank you for this

@Eamonshort1 2 года назад

Thanks @CynicalHistorian for turning me on to this fantastic channel I study engineering but love history and etymology is something that has always fascinated me but you tracing the word and concept back to P.I.E roots, fucking great stuff man. Will have to go thru a lot of your videos hoping you have something cool on Basque or ancient Eturian or other non P.I.E language isolates EDIT: Also I love your art/presentation style as that manner of laying things out is extremely helpful. Also glad to hear you mention Bede as I'm looking forward to tomorrow as my dad bought me a copy of Ecclesiastica Historia and plan on cracking as soon as they go to bed (which on a turkey Christmas is early)

@ahistoryofanything3020 Год назад

Loved the focus on etymology! Chimes with an etymology-focussed video I just put out on the continents.

@valentinaaugustina 2 года назад

Very glad to hear the points you made, excellent video! Can’t wait for the next one of its kind-gender-nation-whatever

@Artur_M. 2 года назад

The funny thing about a distinguished cognitive scientist researching the role and implications of grammatical gender being named Lera Boroditsky is that my initial, instinctive reaction to hearing/seeing her name was "Don't you mean Boroditska or Boroditskaya?". It's a typical Slavic surname of the adjectival type and the adjectives naturally change their endings depending on the grammatical gender of the noun. In addition, at least in Polish, there are traditional suffixes added to the surnames of other types to create their feminine forms, which also denote the marital status of a woman ('-owa' and '-ówna') but they are rarely used today, considered at best charmingly old-fashioned, at worst strange and possibly sexist. That's why, for example, you might encounter the name of a certain Polish WW2 humanitarian hero in two forms: Irena Sendler and Sendlerowa.

@mjisabelle18 2 года назад

Gorramit, now I have a new RU-vidr to binge. Thanks Cynical Historian. Lol. I am now 5 minutes in, and I am already greatly enjoying this guy. Its gonna be a fun rabbit whole.

@Alliterative 2 года назад

😁 Welcome!

@HebaruSan 2 года назад

When my German teacher handed out the long list of nouns and their genders to memorize, I realized I wasn't going to become a fluent speaker of that language. It was the first time I simply didn't learn something that a class was teaching.

@willemvandebeek 2 года назад

Merry holidays and healthy new year, Mark, Aven & the company you keep. :)

@Alliterative 2 года назад

Thank you! And the same to you! :)

@zenosAnalytic 2 года назад

This is AMAZING! A long watch, but a good un; Thanks for making it ^v^

@Alliterative 2 года назад

Thank you!

@bigbigfizzi 2 года назад

I learned more in an 1:20:23 (video length) than I did in 4 years of university. This video was so useful and it answered a lot of question that I wish they would teach in school. Thanks. PS: Have you ever written a book?

@Alliterative 2 года назад

Thank you so much, that’s very kind of you to say! I have not written a book, though it’s on my list of projects I’d really like to get to.

@teucer915 2 года назад

The derivation of "race" from Latin "radix" is correct for a third, now obsolete, use of "race" to refer to roots, so that in early modern recipes we see things like "a race of ginger" as ingredients. This is a likely way for it to influence the semantics of its other homonym.

@mcmasti 2 года назад

Wow! I feel as though I've been on a long voyage to familiar yet strange lands. You've looked at the word Nation from every Angle! Well done.

@GillamtheGreatest 2 года назад

oh snap gonna have to add this one to my watch later list, have a comment and a like for the algorithm gods for now though

@12irissu14 2 года назад

Biological Sexs: Female, Male and Intersex. Gender Identities : Binary (Male, Female), Trans* (Non-binary, Gender fluid...)

@sandradermark8463 2 года назад

In Swedish, saxen (the scissors) and Sachsen (Saxony) are homophones. Didn't know history of the word sax (scissors) coming from that old word for knife and it being cognate to Saxon/y.

@latronqui 2 года назад

"Starlore" for astronomy sounds so pretty, though!

@mitchblank 2 года назад

Surprised to learn that radix->race is a rejected etymology. Since “radix” led to “racine” in modern French I assumed that “racine”/“race” were connected, but I guess not!

@Alliterative 2 года назад

Yeah, it seems so logical, but apparently no!

@EduNauta95 2 года назад

This video and the one about rock and roll are sooooo gooooood, I really hope you get more views.

@Alliterative 2 года назад

Thank you!

@CJLloyd 2 года назад

Long time Alliterative subscriber, loved the video! I have to say, I've always been skeptical of Boroditsky's claims about gender, both because they seem to ignore the idea that grammatical gender and human gender are unrelated, and because it implies a much stronger case for linguistic relativity than is generally accepted in the wider linguistic community. I know she's currently one of the primary scholars in that field, but that's largely because it's an understudied field. Do you have any thoughts on that?

@Litigation-Queen 4 месяца назад

Makes sense! In Arabic, nation is “Omma” which seems like “Om” which means mother

@seandawson5899 2 года назад

Epic facial hair+Epic knowledge=Epic videos.

@sandradermark8463 2 года назад

Have anyone of you read the article Uncleftish Beholding? It's on chemistry in Anglish... It's also on RU-vid.

@endo_kun_da 2 года назад

Amazing work! A very extensive web. Not a tree!

@sandradermark8463 2 года назад

Kith means native land and kin is related to king. Great to know even more from the Endless Knot.

@borisdjordjepetrovic 2 года назад

incredibly dense and useful

@onebrownmeece 2 года назад

Fantastic video. This is obviously not an etymology of “race", but I find it interesting that the Sanskrit “rasa” means “essence” or “flavour”…

@tianwong152 2 года назад

what software do you use to draw up the diagrams?

@Alliterative 2 года назад

I create the diagrams in Inkscape and animate with Sozi

@DuPainEtDesRoses 2 года назад

I absolutely adore that you use the infinitive as lemma - also in Ancient Greek. τιθέναι and λῡ́ειν are much clearer as lemma than their corresponding 1st person forms!

@DuPainEtDesRoses 2 года назад

But your lack of a macron is, on the other hand, old fashioned :) it obscures the original phonology

@Alliterative 2 года назад

You win some, you lose some. ;) (I'm always having to make choices for clarity, time, ease of creation, etc.)

@daveharrison84 2 года назад

It's interesting that Thomas Jefferson insisted that the new government of the USA should be based on ancient Germanic culture, when it was clearly a product of the enlightenment and yet the government buildings were inspired by Roman architecture.

@sandradermark8463 2 года назад

The Sun and Moon gendering is the same in Spanish vs. German (El sol/die Sonne, la luna/der Mond).

@bluellamaslearnbeyondthele2456 2 года назад

Greetins! I'm not too often a fan of anything, but I really like your content. Including your fast pace and more. So as an attempt to support this channel, IF I may say...: I almost didn't click, because of the relatively boring title, only to find that I could use a whole video on the topic you cover around minute 1:15:00 "the grammatical gender of a noun can affect the way we talk about and even think about things". I almost didn't click, because I wasn't expecting an hour worth of information, (on the contrary), and nowadays, with even youtube trimming down notifications, not clicking becomes a skill. So please consider a longer title, even if you were to be adding: "...and much much more" to it... or Collab.... or rather something more over-encompassing. You deserve more attention and titles play a role in getting that.

@Alliterative 2 года назад

Thank you-for watching the video, and for your suggestions. It’s true that titles are always a struggle for us-we cover so much, how can we explain it in the title? We’ll think about more detailed possibilities.

@bluellamaslearnbeyondthele2456 2 года назад

@@Alliterative I've yet to watch the video. I have only seen 5 minutes by jumping all over the place. I've seen enough to know I want to get back to it and it's on my "watch later" list.

@bluellamaslearnbeyondthele2456 2 года назад

@@Alliterative I am pretty sure you'll find a better title. On first attempt I'd be leaning towards looking for BIG words like "library" rather than "book". "The maze surrounding... The world of... All the sides of the extended sematic-sphere of 'nation' I really don't know. But I trust in your abilities.

@michelledavison2533 2 года назад

@@Alliterative Sign out of RU-vid/ go incognito; type your title in the search bar and see which videos have the most views with similar subjects and I'll bet they have some kind of clickbait/ trending words that can inspire you in your final title decision 😉 I've been subscribed years and you genuinely deserve more views! Also go onto your videos and filter most viewed and note which words/ pictures are on your most popular vids for inspiration 😉 e.g. Halloween and Christmas seem to be popular when uploaded at the right time. Also, I believe you have enough original material to release Short clip videos, to entice viewers to watch the full video but just explain one word over 2-3 minutes, add links to the full video or similar shorter videos, make them into playlists, the shorter vids will be easier to digest and RU-vid also show Shorts from the channels we follow fyi. Thank you everyone involved for edutaining us all. I'm English BTW and I love the long videos! You could also do a name etymology series that people may search for and share

@sandradermark8463 2 года назад

Many star names begin with ra's, like Ra's Al Ghoul (head of the Ghoul IE the gorgon) in Perseus and Rasalhague in Ophiuchus.

@theshenpartei 2 года назад

Just subbed and I came from cynical historian channel

@Alliterative 2 года назад

Welcome! And thanks!

@theshenpartei 2 года назад

@@Alliterative you are welcome

@sandradermark8463 2 года назад

Hengist and Horsa, just like in Carry On Cleo in which they are cavemen. Anyone else seen that film?

@sandradermark8463 2 года назад

So how does "business" become "pidgin"? Through "pisin"?

@Survivethejive 2 года назад

Many falsehoods. Anglo Saxon was used by those persons to refer to themselves not just an exonym and it was used for centuries right up to Cnut and they did form a coherent culture and also a genetic group as science has shown.

@Survivethejive 2 года назад

You say they more commonly referred to themselves as Anglecynn, then say that the focus to race came in the early modern era, yet cynn means race.

@Alliterative 2 года назад

I have not seen credible evidence to support any of those statements.

@Survivethejive 2 года назад

@@Alliterative The term Anglo-Saxon emerged when King Alfred the Great, formerly just king of the West Saxons, captured the Mercian-Anglian territory of London in 886 so he was then known as Rex AngulSaxonum. The title Rex AngulSaxonum was used again for Alfred’s successor Edward. But Alfred’s grandson Aethelstan, sometimes seen as the first King of all England, was called Rex Anglorum - a title which implied rulership of all of England, while the previous title of Rex AngulSaxonum was used in a more restrictive sense to imply rulership of some Saxon and Anglian territories which is possibly why it was later applied to Aethelstan’s successor Edmund after the Vikings had captured Northumbria so that Edmund was not truly the ruler of all the Anglorum. It seems the term Anglorum or ‘English’ included the Northumbrians while the term Anglo-Saxon excluded Northumbrians. a 10th century charter of King Eadwig describes him as King of the Anglosu - an abbreviation of Anglo saxonum which is Latin for Anglo-Saxon. Even King Cnut sometimes used the title king of the Anglo-Saxons as recently as the 11th century.

@BurnBird1 2 года назад

@@Survivethejive None of what you said provides even hint of evidence in favor of your assertion that "by those persons to refer to themselves". Just because kings used it as titles doesn't mean that the common people identified as it. Most Mesopotamian kings called themselves "King of Akkad and Sumer", yet *nobody* called themselves "Akkadian-Sumerian" at the time.

@dharmaqueen7877 2 года назад

Nation, native, ethnic, pagan, heathen, German are all related. The more I study etymology the more I realize how illiterate we all are. Most of the words we use don't mean what we think they do.

@Alliterative 2 года назад

I would say, rather, that we don’t tend to realize how much the words we use have changed over time; words don’t mean what they used to mean once everyone uses them differently. But I certainly think it’s useful to know the journeys that important words have taken - it tells us a lot about how we got to where we are now.

@dharmaqueen7877 2 года назад

@@Alliterative I don't think a change in usage equates to a change in actual meaning. What would necessitate changing the meaning of any word that already has an established meaning? How does changing the meaning of a word contribute to a better understanding of anything or help people to communicate clearly?

@Alliterative 2 года назад

Well, words in every language change meanings all the time. It's inevitable and continual. I'm not arguing that it's either a good or a bad thing (though I don't personally think it's bad) but it's a fact. If you want to treat every word as if it hasn't changed in meaning since it first entered the English language, you will soon find it impossible to communicate with other English speakers!

@MrOzzification 2 года назад

@@dharmaqueen7877 Speak to any etymologist or linguist and they will tell you that's how language works. In school we're taught to think of words as having a "correct" and "incorrect" meaning. That there is only one original and true meaning to a word, which should be the canon meaning forever. But that's not quite how language works. Words and their meanings are not a permanent fixture of reality and are always in flux, constantly morphing and evolving. There is no "truth", there's only consensus. Any word can theoretically take on a new meaning if it achieves consensus and enough people agree use it for the new meaning. There's no hard line for when this occurs and the collective agreement is often unconscious rather than deliberate or mandated. Such changes are often very gradual and it can be hard to study when exactly a change occurred. Through study you may be able to find the 1st instance of when a word was used for a particular meaning, different from its prior meaning, and eventually overtime this new usage just grows and the old one is gradually used less until it falls into the obscurities of the collective consciousness. As Alliterative mentioned all words have a lineage as they morph over time. And this journey that words take, can prove a useful insight into the humans of that time. This is how new languages arise, often spun-off from an older one. Prior to unification of Germany, there were a dizzying number of various Germanic languages.

@dharmaqueen7877 2 года назад

@@Alliterative I already find it impossible to communicate with people who think words have no meaning because they confuse meaning with usage. Two different things. Again, what necessitates the change in meaning or definition and does it increase or decrease our ability to clearly communicate?

@cerberaodollam 2 года назад

How in the periwinkle hell does "bed, beloved" morph into "citizen"? *boggle*

@sandradermark8463 2 года назад

Didn't know hair and horror were cognates.

@CraftsmanOfAwsomenes 2 года назад

Would note Lemkin’s definition of genocide is broader than the one the UN uses on account of whiny countries that didn’t want to have “normal assimilation” categorized as genocide.

@Alliterative 2 года назад

Yup. Like my country (Canada) refusing to admit its own past deeds.

@jennifersiagian 2 года назад

4:39 King Cyan Cain the first murderer the children of them today are Col 3:6 Blue blood Cyan and red bloods mixed.. Purple Royalty so called re shared @Figinformer

@gorillaguerillaDK 2 года назад

So, basically extremely similar to "race"

@darrell20741 2 года назад

Hingist and Horsa both mean Horse? On really?

@Frahamen 2 года назад

Hingist is cognate of the Dutch word "hengst" meaning stallion.

@darrell20741 2 года назад

@@Frahamen Thank you for teaching me this.

@darrell20741 2 года назад

If historians would translate the names into the language they use, we would know them as Stallion and Horse. I speak English so speak English to me ;p

@dharmaqueen7877 2 года назад

Your could have saved a lot of time by just telling everyone to change their use of pronouns to accommodate those who don't personally like their original meanings.

@michaelthompson9540 2 года назад

King actually means "to see clearly". Also, "I have seen". The King/God Horus is represented by a hawk because they are known for being able to see very well. A bird's eye view if you will. Owls are associated with this same concept because they are known to able to see where most would be unable. Christ is called the light of the world because he gives sight to the blind. All the images and symbols associated with kingship derive from these concepts. Our modern royalty simply LARPs these things. So yes, it is a leader of the people. Lol

@RanaRene2022 2 года назад

Had to stop watching this once I saw that a part of this video was putting the US as a racist nation. My ancestors (French Canadian, Micmac, Abenaki) were persecuted by Canada and Britain to the point that they came to the States. My ancestors have never been persecuted here. Glass houses. It was so bad for my grandfather’s family in Quebec, that he couldn’t talk of his Micmac heritage. They made him ashamed of it. It was very insulting that part of the video. But I guess going along with whatever is trending is what sells videos. I will probably unsubscribe to this channel. I have loved the material thus far, but am severely disappointed now.

@Alliterative 2 года назад

I am actually genuinely shocked that you could think that the US isn’t a racist nation just because your family had a good experience, in spite of the incredibly widespread evidence to the contrary. But I recognize I won’t change your mind. Before you go, I just want to say, for the record, as a Canadian, that Canada is a deeply racist country too, and has been since long before it became a nation. Its treatment of Indigenous people is particularly appalling, both in the past and at this very moment.

@RanaRene2022 2 года назад

@@Alliterative not what I said. All nations and all tribes and all races are guilty of it. Interesting how people just want to dwell in it rather than move beyond it. I don’t expect you to change your mind either. Everywhere is becoming more racist, because that’s what a lot of people choose to solely focus on. There’s so much finger pointing that we get nowhere. Good luck on your show.

@MikaylaMelisand Год назад

The beginning of the video was interesting, but once you get into the convoluted talk on Anglo-Saxons, nationalism, and racism, it turns into an impractical mess that reeks of political motivation and bias. At about 20 min. in I felt it was no longer worth watching.