It’s a very British thing. You would never ask someone with a family name like Baker or Miller if their family lineage includes blacksmiths, for example. That’d be the bloke with the family name Smith. You see a similar thing in Japan, where individuals didn’t have family names, other than samurai and other elites, until relatively recent, and then adopted family names based on nature and their surroundings.
I started working in a machine shop when I was 18 being a machinist is such valuable skill something I could always fall back on easily finding work I once was in charge of 3 cnc mills vertical and horizontal our shop specialized in titanium aerospace parts and race car parts. I always thought about drawing up bike parts with our CAD cam software cool to see somebody doing it.
I've done work with many machine shops and millwork (wood) shops so I'm very familiar with manufacturing, including CNC. I think this video did a great job of explaining many of the factors and considerations in manufacturing for folks who haven't been exposed to it. And their production speed challenges in this shop are nothing that can't be resolved with bigger/better/$$$$$$ CNC milling centers lol!!! And that is a common business conundrum/challenge.... how much can/should we invest to upscale production!
It is funny that at 17:31, Joaquin was hesitant about saying the phrase "run of the mill" when the entire video was about setting up and running a mill...
Now I understand why George did that retro Pinarello build with the new Dura Ace stuff - it was just an excuse to clear out his under-the-sink cupboard so that he could store a box of these chain rings. next video - adding an 80 tooth titanium chain ring to a city bike and making Hank climb the Motorola.
I'm waiting for e-bike engineers to make a braking system like the engine on a train "Dynamic Brakes" you can eliminate the rear disc and caliper and turning the motor into a generator, by squeezing the brake lever, that power could be dumped back into the battery. Maybe it could work so well after some tweaking, that you could still lock up the back wheel with the brake lever and get moments of small charges.
Thanks for sharing this, it was interesting to see how others are doing it, I own a CNC manufacturing company that also makes chainrings. I was a little surprised on the waist, we use mostly 7075 aluminum and would hate seeing that much material going into the recycle bin. We start with a much closer diameter and thickness to the final part.
A Dura Axe 34 tooth chainring is £40 (you can get it cheaper if you hunt about), one of his is £312 (Inc VAT). If you get eight times more use our of it it is a good deal.
While this is impressive, it also illustrates the massive amounts of waste involved. And while the left over titanium will most likely be recycled, we are talking about a 95% waste-rate ... and that is after the waste caused by the discs being cut initially.
It looks cool. People ready to use titanium chainring for the right price but what is "right" exactly? It is in your favor? I doubt this will possible because of the a) raw material costs b) small batches c) machinery and it's maintenance that involved in this process d) people that are making it want to eat.
Nice and interesting video ! I am wondering if doing a composite structure using carbon in the center and titanium for the teeth would allow to reduce costs (obviously raw material usage) and improve even more weight.
@@neilwinkelmann8540 For real. Well-designed and manufactured of steel to form the outer chainring only area would weigh almost nothing and last zillions of km.
If you want to make something compatible with their products, you usually can go to the designer/patent holder and get functional design spec (usually licenced for a cost) not going to go down well (with consumers lr the original designers) if your making products that aren actually compatible when parts like these need to be made to tight tolerances, and if the other company has a valid patent, you can't just measure one of their products to get your measurements to make competing product of your own without risk of infringing their patent anyway. If its out of patent or an open standard, there will certainly be design documents for the critical parameters about.
He’s not charging near enough if that chain ring is only $350. $100 just for the blank and 5 hrs of machine time. If you amortize the cost of the CNC machine into that part he’s losing money on complex parts like this. This is a passion project.
I wonder if advances in 3D printing of Titanium will result in much lower costs due to far less waste. The CNC process is really cool but a lot of expensive Ti is literally flowing down the drain.
Unlikely for items like this in the foreseeable future I think. Someone will always want to make parts on metal 3d printers that simply can't be milled due to their shape, and that will dictate pricing.
Thanks for a great dive into bespoke bike component manufacturing. But, I would have loved to hear more about the structural design considerations (of the web) and the value of working from billet as opposed to stamping or forged.
#askgcntech would titanium brake discs have advantages over current alloy ones if so what would they be and can you see titanium brake discs ever being used? Thanks
Depends on your definition of superior. It’s a weight weenie item. Titanium is stronger and can thus be lighter. But yeah it’s a game of diminishing returns.
@@hockysa Depends on the grade of titanium - 7075 aluminium is harder (And therefore more wear resistant) than basic 3Al 2.5V Ti, as well as being lighter. With heat treatment, Ti can do a lot better than Al, but that isn't mentioned here, so there's a decent chance the material being used is in it's softest, annealed state as that's the easiest to machine and the dentists buying this stuff won't know the difference, nor do most of them put the miles on the chainrings to find out. With a hard anodised surface, the Al will last longer again, though Ti can be nitrided to give the same benefit. All these materials fall massively short on the wear performance of any decent grade of steel (Which can also be nitrided to increase life even more) however.
I would use titanium chainrings if the appearance was more traditional like some of the vintage Campagnolo designs. IMO the design of the ring in this video doesn't match well with a titanium road bike.
Titanium casting is a thing. It's a very challenging and specialised thing, but still a thing. For a small shop like that, cnc is probably a lot more economical
Just the present for the guy who has everything! You'd better get your order in before the proposed sanction on Russian (biggest comercial source) Titanium kicks in.
i like how i am such a nerd that i could probably make one of those myself but the cost would probably be even higher so there is no point in doing so.
My guess is he is not doing the numbers to offset the tooling cost, and titanium is not easy to forge particularly a shape like that. Its fancy looking because he can with CNC.
Seems like a very wastefull process - would additivve manufacturing using titanium not be more efficient? What do they do with all the 'waste' titanium? Does it get salvaged and sent back to a smelter?
Fools and their money - there's a myth that titanium is somehow lighter than aluminum. Another one's that CNC'd stuff from billet is superior to forging..and ...wait for it....3D printing is the best way to make any/everything. Marketing, marketing, marketing!!!
Very cool stuff! Fascinating how CNC machines remove material to shape parts, unlike 3D printers which build them layer by layer. How customizable are the chainrings? Could you for instance get something like the GCN logo cut into one?
Depends on what steel you use, but normal stainless, yes, expensive stainless? No, but that will be as expensive as Titanium AND heavier, and the wear is not an issue to begin with.
Who uses steel rings? Today's 1X don't. If you're worried about durability, switch to immersion chain waxing. You'll never wear out a ring if you do. (Probably shouldn't say never, but who cares!)
