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How To BREAK a Trading Card Game 

Rempton Games
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Everybody loves powerful cards, but how do you know when something is TOO powerful? In this video I look at the 5 most common categories of broken cards to see why they are so powerful, and see how to learn from past design mistakes.
Blog / Transcript: remptongames.com/2022/03/30/t...
Chapters
00:00 Introduction
00:33 What is a Broken Card?
01:40 Raw Power
02:38 Infinite Combos
05:18 Engine Cards
07:35 Total Lockdowns
10:20 Cost Avoidance
12:50 Outro

Игры

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12 июн 2024

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Комментарии : 59   
@MABfan11
@MABfan11 6 месяцев назад
fitting video, since Yu-Gi-Oh only just came out of it's Tear 0 format dominated by the Ishizu Tearlaments deck, because the synergy between the Ishizu cards and the Tearlaments have insane synergy. what makes Ishizu Tealaments Tear 0 so special is the fact that they're interactive as hell and doesn't lock the opponent out of the game. the mirror matches led to multiple long chains of cards resolving their effects, which led to more chains being created. it got so insane that people would use a card to increase their life points so that they could win on time just because the turns were taking longer than the time they were given for each duel
@pbrown7501
@pbrown7501 Год назад
Here's my categorization of the more fundamental reasons that cards can end up broken: 1. Undermining the game's resource system (being way above curve, pushed alternate cost, producing additional resources, making the opponent unable to access fundamental resources) 2. Unbounded scaling (produces an effect scaled to some checked value without an upper limit, or being repeatable any number of times)
@TheRenaSystem
@TheRenaSystem 2 года назад
I've been following your channel since 200 subs and I gotta say, I'm loving the content you've been making recently even more than your old stuff; keep up the great work!
@LandOfTheFallen
@LandOfTheFallen Год назад
Hello Fellow Anarchist! Would you be willing to try out a Card Game I've been working on? Kind regards, Michael
@ren_suzugamori1427
@ren_suzugamori1427 Год назад
On the hint at Uno's Wild Draw 4, there's a card in the Harry Potter edition called "Sorting Hat". It's rule is as follow: Upon play, declair Yellow, Blue, Green, or Red, and declare a number from 1 through 4. The next turn player must draw until they get the combination of color and number you selected for them to draw, and they must play it, thus skipping their turn." In practice, and trust me I've seen it done to other players, one of which I caused, gives them a big hand as a result, even giving them half the deck if there are more than two players.
@chrismiller3548
@chrismiller3548 Год назад
In yugioh there were these monsters called Zoodiac. On release they were broken because it basically cheated an entire extra deck mechanic. Normally you would need two monsters to make an xyz monster, but this archetype allowed you to just use one. All of the monsters were also not a hard once per turn leading to loops. That was not a fun time to be playing the game at all
@empireyouth5791
@empireyouth5791 Год назад
I actually have to disagree with this point, while zoodiac was broken many of the actual XYZ weren’t that powerful and actually pretty weak, their strongest XYZ monster was just open sports and quick affect pop, what made them broken was specifically the XYZ themselves being able to be used as material, if that was the case every single one of them would be balance with the exception of broadBull ( And that’s only because the beast warrior type has been supported a lot recently
@empireyouth5791
@empireyouth5791 Год назад
Also if cheating the mechanic is what made them broken, mask heroes, Tri-brigade would have bands
@MABfan11
@MABfan11 6 месяцев назад
and now we got Ishizu Tearlaments
@r3zaful
@r3zaful 4 месяца назад
Yugioh is tearalaments not zodiac Zodiac beast as an archetype is fine the only problem is molmorat/ratpier.
@chicabubr7094
@chicabubr7094 4 месяца назад
Completely the opposite.zoo format was pretty fun
@newkingdomgaming
@newkingdomgaming 2 года назад
Great list! One thing I would point out is with the cost avoidance category this can be avoided by instead introducing limited resources. MTG does this well with counters on cards. The Pokémon TCG does as well where you can take an insane action but only so long as you have x of some limited resource that is either fixed (gain 3 brick counters) or limited in regeneration. This would not necessarily be cost avoidance so much as resource conversion but it is a way to design cards with this sort of feature that can boost action economy or choice for players without being broken.
@goncaloferreira6429
@goncaloferreira6429 Год назад
limitation brew inovation and the feeling of being rewarded when achieving " the thing"
@gmeaki02
@gmeaki02 2 года назад
Loving the TCG design stuff!
@science-fantasytcg5087
@science-fantasytcg5087 2 года назад
Same!
@ignisofficialgaming
@ignisofficialgaming Год назад
Vanguard has a good way of blocking most cards from going infinite and its the once per turn clause they put onto most skills that would be too dangerous if they could go infinite. An example of one I used for a while was Dragonic Overlord the X which copies the skill of another Overlord card you choose and is unable to have its trigger check go below 1 instead of bottoming out to zero after its second attack, with this comboing with Dragonic Overlord the End very well. If the End didn't have the 1/Turn clause in its skill the card would be infinite as long as you can pay resources
@empireyouth5791
@empireyouth5791 Год назад
While I agree with the sentiment I would point out they screwed up badly when V started, so many infinite combos were created and we’re off the rails presumably because the people designing for V didn’t even give a crap about standard. valkorion being one of the most Blatant examples of course they got the group back together at the end of v banding or fixing infinite combos to not work and currently in Vanguard overdress it seems the designer actually looking at standard and avoiding infinite combos Also I would like to put out magic and Yu-Gi-Oh figure this out way faster than Vanguard
@TheSpuros1997
@TheSpuros1997 11 месяцев назад
When you said avoiding paying a card's cost... I used to play a lot of shadowverse. Runecraft (a spell based class) had a mechanic called spellboost which reduces the card's cost for every time that you played a spell. And most of their cards had that mechanic. And yes it can go to 0 cost. Allowing them to play like 7-9 cards at their 4-5th turn...
@dylanmagoiofthethalasso4032
@dylanmagoiofthethalasso4032 2 года назад
One of my most FAVORITE combos in Yu-Gi-Oh! is (when I have it all set up) summoning Drill Barnacle, placing mage power equipping it to drill barnacle, place Swords of revealing light, place 3 other spell/trap cards on my field. To boost Drill Barnacle from a 300 atk monster to a 2800 atk monster. With Drill barnacles effect I can attack directly and when I inflict damage using this effect Drill Barnacle gains 1000 atk, so now he's at 3800 atk. At the end of Swords of revealing lights effect I would have inflicted 11,400 points of damage, if my opponent doesn't mess up my strategy. I have used this once on my friend he was really impressed that he wanted me to bring my deck to school to do a 2 on 1 with our other friend...but sadly I didn't draw the necessary cards to pull off that amazing combo.
@1snivy10
@1snivy10 2 года назад
I kinda wish you had examples from a wider variety of tcg, as a casual viewer I got the impression that mtg is the only major card game to have so many unbalanced cards, ygo and hearthstone only got mentioned once. Cool video though.
@RemptonGames
@RemptonGames 2 года назад
I’ll try to use a wider variety in the future! MTG is the one I know best, it’s been around the longest and has the most cards, so it was the easiest to pick examples from
@EmperorPylades
@EmperorPylades Год назад
Magic's also managed to hit basically every possible permutation of brokenness over its long lifespan as well. Engines? Not only did it invent the concept, its made more than I can count. Uneven exchange? Done it so many times its actually kind of funny. Avoiding costs and restrictions? There's entire deck archetypes built around it. Just plain stupid? OH HI THERE OKO!
@Spudmay
@Spudmay Год назад
Hey man, this was great stuff! Really gave me something to go back and look at with my game. Thanks a lot for the food for thought!
@matthewkeeling886
@matthewkeeling886 Год назад
On that last one, a lot of Yugioh's balance problems and its modern combo centric nature is because of the proliferation of Special Summoning. Special Summoning is named Special because it is a cost avoidance strategy to avoid the limit of 1 Normal Summon per turn. And yes, even the "non-combo" decks in that game are often using small combos throughout their turns. Then there are the, to use an MTG term, Prison Decks (Mystic Mine & co.) the publisher insists on leaving in the game as a check on this issue that bring one player's plays to a screeching halt... those are totally anti-fun in any card game.
@empireyouth5791
@empireyouth5791 Год назад
OK while I agree somewhat, Yu-Gi-Oh would be an unfunny and boring game without it special summons, Yu-Gi-Oh try to have a resource system with tribute summons, and no one used it because it’s a cost even if the tribute summons were Bigger also special summon exist in the earlier stages of Yu-Gi-Oh and it didn’t break the game, fusions and rituals are literally that , why is the problem of “special summon” only now pointy to even though it’s existed the entire game special summoning isn’t a problem designing around it is hints a lot of balance special summoning monsters are usually pointless unless you use them to summon a bigger monster with another monster as material (as this is pretty much how Yu-Gi-Oh add cost to their bigger monsters, for the most part)
@matthewkeeling886
@matthewkeeling886 Год назад
@@empireyouth5791 I wasn't saying Special Summoning in general is a problem, it is when you special summon without an actual cost to that summon. The biggest offenders are actually cards that summon more from the deck or summon themselves purely based on current board states, especially when those states are ones you would end up at in the normal state of play eg. "If you have a (insert archetype) monster on the field you can special summon this card" or "If this card is sent to the graveyard you can fusion summon using cards from hand/deck/field/grave" without any downside to that special summon. Any cost avoidance strategy needs to be carefully considered before a card is designed with it, and Konami didn't consider them carefully for a very long time. Therein lies the issue with YGO as it has developed, first really shown in the CED and Tele-DAD decks over a decade ago.
@empireyouth5791
@empireyouth5791 Год назад
@@matthewkeeling886 I don’t think “ if you have ( insert archetype) Monster special some of this card” or “ if you’re using this card the way you intended (such as fusion material) gain advantage” is problematic design. These only become problematic designed to win access to generic para full tools are available such as Nero fiber, Savage dragon, access code talker. basically the problem isn’t back end (monsters summoning themselves is elite an archetype or if doing set an archetype well) it’s front end (allow you to use those cards to create generically overpowered cards) this is why I think the xyz era was one of the most balance in terms of architect designs. Well they had a lot of the stuff there wasn’t any powerful and generic extra deck threat that wasn’t archetype locked. Instead they were weaker but more toolboxes meaning for pushing game they were kind of pointless. The only exception to this rule during the time from the top of my head is silence honor ark, and even then it was easy to play around although really powerful
@matthewkeeling886
@matthewkeeling886 Год назад
@@empireyouth5791 Whereas I find it the other way around, too many toolboxes that rely on the extra deck monsters for end effect mean that you have a limited ability to design those cards, which are YGO's "standout feature". Cut down on the self starting toolbox approach and you can keep the generics in the extra (which are needed for the decks with less support, which often have no native monster in there). There is absolutely a power level issue with those extra deck monsters (especially with Link 1-2s) but the overuse of main deck special summons homogenizes the card design considerably and enables a lot of the degenerate plays. There is a balance point somewhere in the middle, which the Synchro and XYZ eras were pretty good at maintaining, though they did frequently end up with extra deck spam decks (blackwings, karakuri, wind up, plant, etc.) pendulum era decks on the other hand went bad in both directions and Links failed to fix it due to poor design. I would say the main deck self summons (and fusion from deck cards or Extra Deck monsters that special other monsters) need downsides (reduced stats, negated effects, summon locks, etc.) in order to keep them contained. One card combo starters are a major design failure, no matter if they are confined to an archetype or not, and a lot of those are removed if a single downside is added to their summon effect.
@coreyyohm
@coreyyohm Год назад
Couldn’t have said it better myself Matthew great points
@spencerpalmer2918
@spencerpalmer2918 2 года назад
Well thought out list! This is useful for designing more than just TCGs. Thanks so much!
@ashheilborn
@ashheilborn Месяц назад
I'd like to point out that sometimes things being broken can be fun. Certainly you don't want to allow people to win without giving their opponent a chance, but you also don't want to design a game where players feel constrained and unable to enjoy the game. If everything is super restrictive, then it doesn't take much for a card to become disastrously overpowered.
@j453
@j453 2 года назад
Vs. System had a broken infinite loop combo that involved dr light and dr doom and made dr dooms atk and def go infinite. Then you attack with him once and win.
@BynineStudio
@BynineStudio 2 года назад
very interesting stuff!!
@DreadgateTCG
@DreadgateTCG 11 месяцев назад
Thank you for this video.
@dudono1744
@dudono1744 5 месяцев назад
Cost avoidance can be balanced, but it needs to either be extremely restrictive in what it cheats or come with the biggest drawbacks the world ever saw. For example, in Yugioh, there's a card called "A Wild Monster Appears" that lets you cheat out basically any monster worth cheating out from your hand, but • You can't summon other monsters that turn. • Your opponent takes no damage that turn. • The monster returns to the Deck at the end of the turn. • You can only activate the card if only your opponent has a monster out. And the main thing this card is used for is Zushin + G.B. Hunter turbo, which is meh.
@petersmythe6462
@petersmythe6462 2 месяца назад
You can get rid of every perpetual motion machine style infinite combo by religiously following conservation laws of some kind when designing cards. It doesn't prevent everything crazy and unreasonable but it should prevent infinite energy combos.
@CanadianSmitty
@CanadianSmitty 9 месяцев назад
Very good video.
@captnweasle
@captnweasle 2 года назад
Great video
@robrick9361
@robrick9361 10 месяцев назад
Yata lock was always suspicious to me. Since you're trying to draw specific cards, you'd run a 40 card deck. But Yata doing 200 damage would require 40 turns, so the player doing the lock would have to draw 40 cards. The opponent could summon more monsters to attack directly but since you start the game with 5 cards and CED requires 1 dark and 1 light monster in the grave along with Sangan and Yata, that leaves less than 35 cards to draw. And that's assuming they did the lock early in the duel. I wonder if many Yata locks were actually losses by deck out, if you actually ran it through.
@alisethera9349
@alisethera9349 8 месяцев назад
Well you’re not normal summoning anything else since Yata is taking your normal each turn. But considering the time period, the yata player probably had a few other Chaos bosses in the deck somewhere. And it would only take 3 hits to kill. Considering you could play 3 chaos sorc + BLS. Its pretty unlikely that all your copies are so low that you deck out first.
@lanereynolds4567
@lanereynolds4567 2 месяца назад
you have to remember, CED also inflicted 300 dmg for every card sent to the grave. Assuming 3 cards in the hand, a monster and two backrow (regular for the time) CED, Sangan and 2 backrow for the attackign player, that's 13 cards x 300, so 3900 dealt there. Just shy of half. Plus the attacking player can still draw, so they could boost him later with equips or other monsters later in the duel so as to speed things up. Monser Reborn was also a thing, so any stronger than yata monster in either grave could be pulled for free for easier grinding.
@onatkorucu842
@onatkorucu842 Год назад
11:10 Patches from Heartstone is a disgustingly similar example.
@Tungdil_01
@Tungdil_01 Год назад
This video is in the Pokemon playlist on your channel :p
@tonysmith9905
@tonysmith9905 6 месяцев назад
So, Lurrus shouldn't be in the cost avoidance section at all. He's an engine piece. He didn't get banned because he's "in your hand" every game. There are many other companions legal and if that's why he was banned then they would be as well. No he's banned in vintage because getting a 2nd use out of your Black Lotus or any other free card is absolutely busted as heck.
@AutisticBoardGamer
@AutisticBoardGamer Год назад
And a lesson in YT video production, reduce the background music to barely noticeable or just get rid of it. There's a good reason big channels don't have background sound, it is very distracting.
@DyrianLightbringer
@DyrianLightbringer 10 месяцев назад
Lurrus doesn't say "for free."
@rokmare
@rokmare Год назад
Another way to prevent abuse is to add a once per turn effect on cards that’s how yugioh prevent “most” combo from going infinite
@yuseifudo6075
@yuseifudo6075 9 месяцев назад
My first ever locals i got yata-locked .......
@michaelcitrino5339
@michaelcitrino5339 11 месяцев назад
I am honestly surprised that you used a Yu-Gi-Oh reference for Total Lockdowns. My first thought on the topic was MTG. they have an entire genra of cards dedicated to this idea called 'Control'. lockdowns are so prevelant that you play control or lose most of the time in my experience. there are very few answers to it but thats assuming they dont have answers to your answers, which they do. "O, this card is hexproof and cant be targeted", Imma just say u cant play that card cause it costs (?), or maybe cause u cant play that card type, or maybe u can only play X cards per turn, or when it enters you sac a creature. I almost want to say MTG is nothing but lockdown in most situations competitively.
@tonysmith9905
@tonysmith9905 6 месяцев назад
Far and away from the truth. Different formats go through different metas, but most do in fact have a few deck archetypes that are viable. And the older the formats are the harder it is for a pure control deck to actually be viable. Control in mtg is defined as a deck having a lot of answers to your opponent while their deck usually has only a handful of actual win cons. The analog for lockdown in mtg is actually called "stax", these types of cards restrict your opponents' ability to take game actions or severely limit what their actions can do. Cards like Thalia, Winter Orb, and of course Smoke Stack.
@xChikyx
@xChikyx 13 дней назад
Lurrus doesnt cast them for free...
@OrdemDoGraveto
@OrdemDoGraveto Год назад
You missed "aggro" cards that are way too powerful early in the game that It makes the marches Lucky: Did you draw It in your First hand? You won.
@IncandescentCrowvus
@IncandescentCrowvus 3 месяца назад
Kashtira Ariseheart looks other way in disgust
@bradjones7491
@bradjones7491 10 месяцев назад
extra turn cards should not exist.
@zacheryhershberger7508
@zacheryhershberger7508 5 месяцев назад
Konami's solution to broken cards has been to just release ever increasingly more broken cards until the game is a 1 turn combo-off. It's seriously the worst. YGO was my first love but honestly I never understood the game's potential. The flaws make it so unfun and Konami's decision to lean into those flaws rather than resolve them ruined the game for me. But I'm just a Yugi-boomer oops.
@alphu5
@alphu5 11 месяцев назад
current yugioh meta in a nutshell
@TheOldSchoolCrisis
@TheOldSchoolCrisis Год назад
Mentions how hard locks make the game unfun, gives an example of an old YGO deck, ignores that current YGO is basically going first to create an unbreakable boardstate. lol
@dudono1744
@dudono1744 5 месяцев назад
Given when this video was released, he wouldn't have expected the definition of full lockdown being released in YGO.
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