How to debate Muslims and Mormons (without being a jerk!) 

Thank you, Brothers 🌹⭐🌹⭐

I enjoyed the conversation very much. I especially liked your comments about how we can be better Christians with others. I also appreciated what Dr. Licona shared. My personal experience with Muslims is limited to the few Muslim friends I have. Before I left to go abroad a few years ago, my Muslim friend told me to never say Muhammed was a false prophet as a reason why I was Christian and not Muslim. She said I could find myself in serious trouble if I said it to the wrong person. She told me to tread very carefully and to avoid religious discussions. Maybe it is easier to have these conversations with friends who are Muslims in the US or Canada. I ordered some of Dr. Licona's books to hear more of his perspective. Thank you for adding his website! There is so much good material to explore. I appreciate how you work to bring so many guests to the channel.

Dr. Licona says: "But it's OK to say that you think [Mohamed] is a false prophet." Just don't be too naïve and dare to say that in a Muslim country (e.g., Pakistan, where a week ago they lynched - tortured to death - a tourist and burned his body for blasphemy). Regarding 'Mormons', despite all insults and mockery they receive (usually from fundamentalist Christians of different denominations) they are, in general terms, among the friendliest, most welcoming, and tolerant people one can find. You are always safe debating religion with them. TBH I see with sympathy how they get so happy when they are treated with respect by Christians of different denominations.

The one debate I saw of Licona and Shabir Ally - I wasn't very impressed. Liconas approach is very Western, very American. Most Muslims don't share that mentality at all.

I actually debate and have discussions with Muslims quite frequently. In person, it’s very civil and friendly (usually), but online it’s a whole different story 😂. But, to be fair, that goes for pretty much everything online. Most recently, I’ve resorted to arguments such as The Islamic Dilemma, Allah’s approval of the Apostles, and an argument I developed myself. When presenting my argument, I’m always upfront about being a Christian, believing I have the truth, wanting to share what I believe to be the truth, and always emphasize their freedom to ignore or disagree with me. The argument itself consists of sharing the gospel while emphasizing the justice and omnibenevolence of God, who is defined as a maximally great being. After doing so, I show the necessity of the Incarnation, Hypostatic Union, Atonement, and Resurrection. I then show why I think Allah can’t be God. If the events I mentioned earlier are necessary, but Allah didn’t provide them, then Allah can’t truly be omnibenevolent or just. And, because Allah isn’t omnibenevolent or just, he can’t fit the definition of God (a maximally great being). Therefore, Allah is not God. The actual argument is more organized, but that’s the gist of it. It’s an interesting argument, I know. Plus, it’s also kind of lengthy. But, so far, it’s worked well and I plant a seed of gospel while doing so. In regards to the video, this was great clip! I’ve listened and watched Mike Licona for a long time now, but, most recently, I’ve been watching his interviews about his new book: “Jesus Contradicted,” which I know you guys talked about. I can’t wait to watch the full interview!

My case is different a bit different from some American converts to Islam because I had been an educated Christian and an elder in a local fellowship (Church of God, Anderson Indiana), not converting until I was 39 (1999), and becoming a 12er Shi'ite Muslim rather than a Sunni Muslim. I don't do Dawah in the sense of beginning the conversation. So many Christians want to convert me back hehehe that I usually just clear up misconceptions of Islam, or differences between 12er Shi'ite Muslims, different kind of Sunnis, and Salafis and Wahabis. One really offensive point made to all Muslims after 911, because of what the Fundamentalist Rev. Gerry Falwell claimed on FOX News one day, was that Muhammad was a pedophile who consumated his marriage to Aisha when she was only 9 years old. Yes, one tradition states that in a Sunni collection of traditions (ahadith). However, other Sunni books of traditions state Aisha was 13 to 15. Some say she was 18. It gets worse for Rev Falwell when we look at Shi'ite books. Aisha was reported to be 18 to 24. Some Shi'ite reports say she was previously engaged. What happens when an ultra-fundamentalist Christian Evangelical like a David Wood or a Sam Shamoun (who has since returned to the Mar Thoma Syrian Church) insists that Muhammad is a paedophile despite the fact that the most Sunnis don't even think that tradition is true? For me, my wife is a conservative Filipina Roman Catholic. My 21 year old twins boys haven't committed to a faith, but one is considering Eastern Catholicism or Eastern Orthodoxy. The other is looking at Roman Catholicism and Shi'ite Islam. I began learning the Reformed Theology of Cranmer, Calvin, Ursinus of Heidelberg Catechism fame, and Westminster Standards and the 39 Articles just before becoming Muslim. I continued reading both Confessional Reformed and Lutheran Books after becoming a Muslim, mostly because reading Wesleyan Armenian writers left me with a faulty view of Calvinism, not because of the Wesleyan writers, but because of assumptions on my part. Since I knew John Wesley was influenced NY the early Desert Father Makarios the Great, and since my wife's father was named Macario, my son Adam's middle name is Macario. His twin brother Odeh's middle name is Hermann, which was my father's name, because I like the Eastern Orthodox saint Saint Herman of Alaska. Thus, I wanted Godly children who could have both Christians and Muslims for friends. Shi'ite Muslim sects follow leaders from the Family of Muhammad rather than the all the Sahaba or Companions of Muhammad. There was a Succession Crisis when Muhammad passed on. While his cousin Ali Ibn Talib, the husband of Muhammad's daughter Fatima, was preparing the body of Muhammad for burial, many of the Sahaba got together and selected a Successor (Caliph) despite the Last Sermon of Muhammad calling Ali Ibn Talib his Guardian. Interestingly, an Authentic Sunni hadith states that the Prophet left Two Weighty Things, The Quran an his Family. The Sunnis use a hadith not considered authentic for their teaching that Muhammad left the Quran and the Sunnah, where Sunday means Traditions of the Sahaba. Ali Ibn Talib, the first Imam of all Shi'ite sects, would only accept becoming the 4th Caliph if he could return to Quranic principles departed from by the first three Caliphs. That began a civil war. Ali taught the Quranic principle of defensive warfare only with limits. Thus, he agreed to share power in the Caliphate with the cousin of the 3rd Ca!iph, Muhawiya Ibn Abu Sufyan.. Alas, a dissenter assassinated Caliph Ali while he was making Salat, so Muhawiya was able to take control of the Caliph, and became the first Umayyad Caliph. Later, Sunni Muslims would only consider the first 4 Caliphs to be Rightly Guided. Muhawiya started the Umayyad practice, which was to slander the descendants of Muhammad through Ali and Fatima. Those traditions made their way into Sunni books, which is why Sunnis use the 4 Schools of Sunni jurisprudence rather than raw hadith as the Salafis and Wahabis do. Sikhism developed when the Abbasids defeated the Umayyads and took over the Caliphate. The Abbasids were Imperialists and tried to capture Constantinople unsuccessfully. I'm happy they were unsuccessful. The Abbasids had wars with Constantinople, but the period was one of expansion of the Eastern Roman (Byzantine) Empire. The 12er Shi'ite Muslims never sought military or political power after the battle of Karbala when Ali's second son Hussain and 72 male descendants of Muhammad were murdered by the second Umayyad Caliph Yazid Ibn Muhawiya. When the 12er's finally did have some power, it was because the Safavid Emperor (modern Iran) converted to 12er Shi'ite Islam. The Safavids allied with Charles V the Holy Roman Emperor against the Turkish Caliphate, which is one of the reasons The Turks could not take Vienna. Thus, the idea held by some anti-Muslims that Islam is a united Empire bent on world domination is easy to disprove just by reading the history of Muslims. Muslims and Empire are Christianity and Empire don't mix well. Both Christian and Muslim teachings must be adulterated for either to either to have an earthly empire. Finally, the Quran does state that among the Jews and Christians are true believers. The example given is Trinitarian monks in a monastery. The Quran states that God did not give them monastics. They still have their reward nonetheless. I better not harm or oppress anyone. However, if I oppress Jews and Muslims, I also oppress the true believers those communities. I will continue to watch and like your videos as I get notified of them.

Being willing to listen and learn from others with different perspectives is one of the great things about Disciple Dojo. I’m a proud Disciple Dojo subscriber of 3 to 4 years and am a member of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints (or as many still call us “Mormons”). There are way more similarities between mainstream Christianity and our faith than people talk about which is why by and large the things shared by JM and others on the channel resonate with me. Where we have differences, that just gives me a chance to learn, sometimes respectfully disagree, and come back for more :). I don’t have to agree with everything to still learn from such an amazing channel, and that’s a good thing. Keep up the Dojo respectful sparing JM!

There is a time and a place to be aggressive and polemical with Muslims. When appropriate it has proven to also be effective. "Friendship evangelism" does not always work.

I’ve been learning a lot in my apologetics class. One thing I’ve learned is “not being a jerk” works well and allows doors to be opened for people to listen to you.

Who is debating, and why? From the Book of Mormon, 3 Nephi 11:29, “...he that hath the spirit of contention is not of [the Lord], but is of the devil, who is the father of contention, and he stirreth up the hearts of men to contend with anger, one with another.” Compare with 2 Timothy 2:23-25 (KJV): ”...foolish and unlearned questions avoid, knowing that they do gender strifes. And the servant of the Lord must not strive; but be gentle unto all men, apt to teach, be patient.” There are numerous comparable scriptural references worth consideration in the Bible, Book of Mormon, and Doctrine and Covenants. I don’t known the Muslim scriptures, but it would surprise me of there were not similar references. The problem isn’t with religious doctrine but with the failure of frail human beings to practice what they preach. And that, my friend, goes for ALL of us. Why else would a Savior have been necessary?😊

It's really difficult not to mention the truth to Muslims, I just can't understand how you can read Sahih Al Bukhari 5134 and remain Muslim. I understand not every Muslim is a violent jihadi and those are the Muslims that will listen at times. To refute their claims is not hard for a mature Christian but it's hard to convince them to come out of a cult. That is something that needs to come from within themselves, to really look at things truthfully and be honest with God, the truth and themselves; they need a change of heart, repentance and they need to understand the truth about Jesus Christ. This has to be done by God, I don't think we can do that unless God allows it and works through the Holy Spirit in us. But then again, one plants seeds, one waters but it is God Who gives growth. Sharing the gospel of Jesus Christ with them is what we should do, but many have been brainwashed by their imams and dawahgandists; they will reject and blaspheme the name of God. That is also something difficult to deal with. Would definitely recommend not interacting too much with Muslims online, things escalate very quickly. Pray for them, bless them, and whatever you do do it in love and truth, hope one day they will see the Light Who is the living Son of God Jesus Christ of Nazareth. My heart goes out to them, as islam is accursed.

You should invite Sam Shamoun.

Awwww your iron age ignorance trumps their iron age dogma