1. we start with i=85/90 and P=5 --> it freaks out 2. we lower i=40; with P=5 remaining --> it flies but wobble city 3. we raise P=30 with i=40 --> wobbles are gone 4. finally, we have he full tune with i-terms back up at 85/90, higher P-terms for even better performance, and raised D-gain now to control the oscillation of the higher P-gains. Note: P and D together need to be as high as they can be for the best prop wash performance.
I keep coming back to this video every time I try to tune by feel. I think this is the single greatest video for explaining what's happening to a quad that's out of tune and what it will do and what to do to fix it.
That’s a great way of thinking about it. It’s very common for people to see any oscillation and immediately go to D. This should clarify what’s really needed. Would be nice to have a graphic here of the error and oscillation difference for I vs P. I oscillation is usually
I really appreciate your videos. I’ve watch almost all tuning, and black box videos at least a dozen times and am slowly grasping it all. Thanks to you, I’ve been recognized on multiple occasions as a top tuner😁 Thank you again, I look forward to more tuning and black box tips as firmware updates continue to release. 🙏 BlippyFPV
This is definitely more critical on 3" super light quads. I just spent a couple hours tuning. Betaflight 4.2.4 pids where way too much for my 6s 3". Another excellent informative video. Thanks Mark!
I’m not even 3 minutes into your video & I already know I’m going to watch it like 10 times. I get a better understanding that way 👍👍👍👍👍👍👌Great idea setting the quad PID’s off like that. We can actually see what the PI& D are doing!!!!!! 👌👌👌👌👌👌😋😋👌
I really like your explanation, a new way to think of it... I tended not to think of I-term as a source of oscillation but I totally see it in your example.
No Blackbox unfortunately. It's an Iflight Sussex f4 1s whoop board, mob6 19k motors, crs fire, it's a little porky at 27gr dry. But the I term is at 100 across the board right now, going to drop it to 90 and try again. After I get some batteries charged.
Thank you so much for this one. disclaimer: I am new to building drones. Also, I don't think I understand PID controller all that well. I've been struggling to get my Quad to fly. Been through a lot of documents and videos. My drone would wobble so much that I couldn't really make it fly/hover. This video has been a turning point for me, where I am now able to fly the drone vs not at all! So happy that I am now able to fly the drone.
Hi just what I needed but need to repair my FC first. Need to resolder my battery cables 🤦🏻♂️ When I’m ready, I’ll study this. Take care & happy fly’n 🤓😉😘
I just tried your preset on my 5" and I am blown away bro. I thought I was pretty good at tuning. I live the cli commands. Only thing I did different was my stick response slider. Yours is way up their. Lol 😂 thank you so much bro I'm going to buy you a beer right now
@@look2christ777 here's a link to the presets. Remember only do bh the filter settings if you have a 32bit esc and turn on bidirectional dshot theuavtech.com/presets/
REally nice explanation. I got two questions: What about feed forward? What is that? And what about the rates (s-rate, rc-rate, expo-rate)? Are the rates fully turned off? No filters, just PID and that's it? I'm new to this..Sorry for asking
Transtec laser HD :-) Love Transtec Laser frames! Great quality carbon, not really T700, but still amazing! (be aware - motor mounts are too week, use 4 screws there if you want to bush it). Only issue is props in view. Surprised how well it flue with D term 5!!
Integral (delayed response) P (proportional [to the error] response) derivative (quick response) they must be adjusted to fit the inertial mass in order to be fast but not oscillate and to correct also the minimum difference with respect to the aim.
ive seen it stated that P and D are for "high"-frequency errors and I is for low. I have been able to eliminate wiggles in my large 55 lb drone by merely adjusting I term. tradeoff seems to be steady state error (pitch in my case) vs wiggles, but this error is still acceptable. of course what makes frequencies "high" or "low" is dependent on your setup...
it is always D > P > i in relation to oscillation control high to low. Also check out the video at theuavtech.com/tuning The Key Relationships you need to know.
I will try this method instead of the traditionnal "PID" method. I tried many settings on my heewing f01 but there is still some wobbling following the pitch axis.
Really great video ,the first flight reminded me of my first quad(it flew like a cow!) and teaching myself how to tune.😃 Betaflight defaults are so good now I really struggle to notice that much of a difference in adjustments. I tend to get to a point were it's ok for me and fly it ,probably just compensate without realising?
Hello Mark,I hope you can help me. I fly my 5 inch copter with the Supafly Smooth Medium preset. It flies excellently. Now I have built a 3.5 inch Pirat Lil Matey 2 frame with 2850kv motors and SpeedyBee f7mini stack with 6s Lipo. VTX is the DJI O3 air unit. I chose the 3/4 inch Supafly as the preset. I now have the following problem. The copter wobbles when flying forwards. I don't know how I can tune the wobble away with the PID settings. Unfortunately I don't have any experience with pidtoolbox. All screws are tight, the cables are laid out neatly. The propellers are undamaged. Do you have a recommendation for me as to how I should adjust the PID and in what ratio to make the copter quieter? It would be great if you could help me. Rocksteady does smooth out the footage, but I would like to fly without wobbles in the live image. best regards and thank you in advance for your support. Best regards, Sascha
I dream of a day where there will be a comprehensive book or class.. or something out there that can piece together all the knowledge from all these videos and make tuning something that's at least approachable for people that have no idea what they're doing and just getting into Betalight. I don't know if there's that much money to be made from such a thing but man would it not only help me but so many other people I know that absolutely want to get into this hobby but are absolutely deathly scared from the topic of "tuning".
Watching ur videos all over. I got a drone (lightweight 5" long range low power) I went to iNAV and not wont fly on 6S. at first couldnt even hover bad fast oscillation. Lowered everything to default and not my BF tune i put into iNAV. I upped gyro filtering too. I have no vibrations it looks like. But at higher throttle going up it oscillates bad. Fast oscillations like it feels like it wants to run away. been slowly raising D term now. BF PIDS were like P58 I87 D42 INAV started at BF then went to Default P40 I30 D23. Increased D to 30. it helped a lil. Now increased to 40. see if it helps. Hoping I can get this flying good in iNAV want to use it for long range in TN. Roadtrip from NY to Tn just to fly this drone long range lol. It did fly fine in beginning on 4S. Havent tried again Wish you lived near by. Pay you to fix it lol actually reading description ur only hour and a half from me. Im in Wappingers falls NY
Sounds like noise issue. Join the Patreon and throw up a log.on with raw noise recorded (debug = Gyro_Scaled in BF or Gyro in iNAV) and we can take a look. HD or DVR helps too.
There kind of is between the Master and P and D Gain slider. Brain3D: www.brain3d.co/collections/gopro-mounts-gopro-protection/products/adjustable-angle-universal-gopro-session-mount?variant=25919723344
@@uavtech awesome, thanks! Love the Laser HD frame. I just got a Transtec Beetle 2.5” with air unit and it came with stock BF 4.2 pids. It’s a heavier 2.5” and has a lot of jello even in a hover. What pids do you think I should adjust? I set up RPM filtering and I have the filters all the way to 2.0 but that did not help the Jell-O at all.
Nice one! I use to tune the I alone by checking the quads reaction when going straight and punching the throttle. If a have a nose up in the punch i add I in pitch, if i have some angle taken in the roll axis i raise the I in roll. Usually this ends up in relatively high I values of about 80-90 ( the time that my P and D is arround 35-50). Should i try lowering at steps the I and see what happens?
Hello, I am new to your channel as recommended by Joshua bardwell amongst other flyers.. I have built several quads since I started fpv back in august of this year and so far, everything but two seem to fly pretty good, but I know there’s room for improvement.. I haven’t been too worried about since I’m still learning to fly better, however, my repertoire of quads is growing and none of them have more than a stock tune.. like I mentioned before, two of my quads, actually 3, have some tuning issues that need to be worked out and I would also like to learn to tune the others beyond a stock tune.. I see that you seem to have a plethora of tuning videos, and so does bardwell, but here in lies the problem, I’m very new to the tuning aspect as in I haven’t done it yet, and every video I’ve seen so far is of much older versions of betaflight than the current that I have been using.. this only compiles the the confusion because I cannot see on my screen, what is being shown on yours or anyone else’s screens.. as a complete noob to tuning, is there a video you would recommend to watch first..? I have read an article by Oscar liang to get familiar with PID, and I’ve watched a handful of videos, but like I said, everything thus far, is from older versions than what is out now.. I’m still trying to understand PID and filtering, not to mention black box.. lol.. please help..! I actually started to try tuning one of my recent builds yesterday but stopped where I was at, because I have no idea what im doing and before I go any further with it, I want to have a better understanding.. please and thank you..!
@@uavtech is this the same guide I saw you use in some of your videos you were tuning the 6s quad that someone sent you..? It looks like, just confirming..
Hello. I recently bought a Crux35 v2 crazyf411 20a aio elrs uart and od mid high throttle manouvers it has this inefficent brrrr oscillations. That one hasnt got a blackbox. Im a beginner. What can I do?
does a perfect tuning with the black box increase or decrease the flight time? I noticed that by increasing the PID a lot I have a greater absorption from the battery and the drone tends to have much less strength and is woody. Probably wrong tuning and bad tracking of setpoint increase corrections and reduce battery in short time?. Probably wrong tuning and bad tracking of setpoint increase corrections and consume battery in short time?
Hello. I just built my first dji tinywhoop. I just want to ask why it wobbles when i fly close to the ground like 3-5nches distance? Can the PID fix it or is it ground effect? Thank you.
How should the P term dampen the I term? The P term is, as it´s name suggests, proportional to the error. Large error gives large p value. The I term integrates the error, to eliminate the residual error left by the proportional nature of the P term. So as long as there is an error, the I term steadily grows, until it is strong enough, to get the error to 0, where it stops growing. In a normal control loop, the I term only starts to decrease once the error goes negative (overshoot), so it can integrate itself back to 0 or negative. But as long as the error is positive, P term and the steadily growing i term both work in the same direction. The p term only contradicts the i term, if you allready had the overshoot and the i term is still holds a positive value. That´s a bit like pushing someone over and just help him stand up afterwards...
i need help on tuning my 2s 4" quad. it is little bit overweight but flies stable. when i try to record the flight, i continuously experience wobble on pitch axis. it acts like it is driving on a bumpy road. what ever i do, even changing controller, wobble is always there. since camera has no EIS, it reflects all small amplitutde slow oscillations on video clips. i adjusted, pids with patience with hours of trying, , i adjusted filters, blackbox is almost vibration free, fc is on soft mounts etc. i am using old PWM esc board from aeesparrow square drone. This dron is actually a wifi drone but i converted it to fly with my own transmitter and a proper f4 controller. its original version was almost vibration free indoors ( with its primitive controller). what could be the reason?
Do you have suggestions for videos to start with? I get tripped up since beta flight keeps changing. It’s hard to tell what’s relevant to learn, and what isn’t. I hope that makes sense. TY.
Hi...thank you for this Newb question...how do you know where to start? If I build a quad and the FC has the latest firmware does that flash include a 'stock' PID tuning to work from? If not, what values would I enter to start the tune from?
Stock should be ok. You can hone in a little further then on theuavtech.com/presets and if you want to eventually tune, check out theuavtech.com/tuning
Do you have any advice on how a 9” quad I.P.Ds should change compare to a 5”? What would you expect, and I will lower my rates too. But they aren’t that high, 600 ish
So for each quad size, can it have same I gain value.. Or bigger/smaller quad will have lower/higer I value? Based on what? Power to weight ratio or just the AUW of the quad..
I has a wide window. The best way I know how to tune it is you want it strong enough that I-term doesn't wind up a bunch on any given axis in flight to compensate for a low gain. For that, I look at the logs.
I was getting some wobbles everytime I throttle up passed 50%, I drive myself nuts trying to fix it on BF, gave up, tried EMU flight and it's now gone, but what would cause that sort of wobble during a quick punch out?
What would cause P, and I fast ossilations on yaw? I'm dealing with this on one quad, and I just cannot seam to get it to go away, no matter what I do with p(45)and i(80) ff120, since there is no D on yaw.
So I have had a really bad oscillation problem on my new 10" drone, I have tried adjusting the I term and P term and no matter what combination of numbers I do it still slowly oscillates and gets worse until I end up crashing it, any ideas what could cause it?
If it is a slow wobble, it is too high of i-Term to P-term. You can drop i-Term to 0 to see if it persists. The other thing could be Motor Saturation. Are you using 24Khz PWM and how big are the motors? 10" props are a lot to spin up/down. If you need more help, jump on my discord and tag me. Logging it would be good.
It is the DJI quad: store.dji.com/product/dji-digital-fpv-system?vid=83421 You can get all the components separately and build yourself. You don't need to get from DJI's store. They just have it there for folks first buying the FPV system to pick up a quad as well.
Watching this and the 10 inch patreon video really displays that moment of inertia. The 10 rolled fast and stopped fast but you could see it was working to stop. This 5 inch just stops.
