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How To Identify An Abusive Church

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In this episode of Theology Applied, David Reece joins the show to provide signs for identifying an abusive church, as well as the biblical guidelines for setting up proper church governance.
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Опубликовано:

26 авг 2024

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Комментарии : 57

@michaellautermilch9185 3 месяца назад

Just tuning in at 3 AM with a fussy newborn. Totally ok if church polity is a boring topic that puts him to sleep! We shall see...

@PeterSawyer2626 3 месяца назад

I have found a problem where a lot of times when a person is in sin they won't even cooperate with church discipline. They won't show up to talk to people. They will just ghost everybody and then probably end up going to another church. This is one of the problems in Baptist Churches. We need to ask questions when somebody is wanting to become a member. What church are you coming from? Let's call up the pastor and see why you left and under what circumstances. Etc.

@MrSilence99 3 месяца назад

Sometimes what the other pastor says may also not be accurate. I went to a small church and there wasn't a plurality of elders. Well one Sunday it was like a switch flipped and the pastor started preaching with anger and went full blown legalistic with many errors. It was kind of shocking to hear from him after over 4 years of attending there. I kept going for a few months and it got worse. The pastor refused to hear any advice or even have a real conversation and started acting biligerant. So I made the decision to leave. And that was met with hostility from him and the remaining few members. Nothing i said or did was right. No apologies were accepted. Everyone became yes men. There was so much gossip it was sickening yet he was rebuking me for gossip which didn't even happen. Should have been a red flag that other churches wouldn't ordain him. It would not surprise me that if my current church called him that he would slander me. Makes me leery of joining another churches membership. He also had some bad confrontations with other people and he tried to make sure everyone knew they were liars. I believed him at first but then I started to see through it. Glad to be free of that place now that I look back.

@olerain 3 месяца назад

@@MrSilence99 I had similar experience. The pastor told several lies he was the only elder . I called a meeting he wouldn’t meet nor talk about the sin . So we eventually had to leave .

@lindsay.coggin 3 месяца назад

Reading recommendations for church polity? The idea of a public trial where the congregation is able to view all the evidence was something I had never heard of until listening to the Christ Church biblical counseling series (Moscow). It was nice to hear it affirmed hear. Dealing currently with an excommunication of a friend where the church has given a vague definition of repentance. There is no clarity and the people aren’t made aware of the evidence.

@throwawaypt2throwawaypt2-xp8nx 3 месяца назад

I think it would be better for it to be a split screen so we can see u both at the same time

@BenjaminKreis 3 месяца назад

Church polity becomes very interesting after it has kicked you in the teeth.

@dawndakennemer2762 3 месяца назад

Yo my man , going to have to UP YA GAME . Rock'n those suspenders my other man❤😊

@lindaw2418 3 месяца назад

I’ve asked our very large church 3 services on Sunday 1 Saturday eve, if they could please lower the volume in the band type music they play. It has fallen on deaf ears continually. I can’t hear my own voice sing, let alone my neighbors. We’ve gotten to the point where we can just hear the sermon at home because you really have to get out of there and can’t mingle much after church to get to know people. We do in our small groups. The sermons are right on as far as theology goes. That’s the dilemma.

@cassandrashaw1730 3 месяца назад

@lindaw2418 I understand the point you're making, but if a church has volume turned up then it automatically follows that their theology has to be wrong. The volume is just an indicator that they are trying so hard to get the 'emotions' rolling so that they can pretend the Holy Spirit is there. Their theology is terribly off!

@LucianaPelota 3 месяца назад

Same situation at our church.😢

@lindaw2418 3 месяца назад

That’s the baffling part, the theology is very good. The pastors are in their mid- 30s. I think that’s what we are dealing with.

@hardboard82 3 месяца назад

I’ve been seeking out other churches in our radius for this same reason (as well as other reasons). Not only can I barely hear my voice, nor can I hear my wife’s voice, but now we have a newborn child. The music is literally damaging to young babies’ developing ears. I have to make our child wear ear muffs so the worship pastor doesn’t injure my child’s hearing. It makes me more angry the more I think about it. Sometimes I think I should bring my own microphone and large speaker in to the worship service, sit in the front row, and invite anyone in the congregation to sing into the microphone so we can sing just as loudly back at the worship team to make a point.

@chrismachin2166 3 месяца назад

@@lindaw2418..is it a Reformed Church? Do they believe Regeneration precedes Faith?

@rachelmce1389 3 месяца назад

I once was in a church that had no polity. It was a small independent local (Reformed Baptist-ish) church. The pastor (who was the only one with any official title) got involved emotionally in a disciplinary situation, and would not follow the Biblical discipline protocol in our church’s constitution that we had all signed. God removed that lampstand and the church closed. 😔 Not a good situation.

@graspunwrapped1124 3 месяца назад

Mr. Reece's note about the historic view of the congregational vote for excommunication by the heads of households clears up a question I have had regarding the lowest court per Mr. Eliot's scheme in his book 'The Christian Commonwealth'.

@jesuschristiskingofkingslo2023 3 месяца назад

I was fortunate to vistit Pastor David Reese's church, what a blessing❤

@BenjaminKreis 3 месяца назад

01:05:37 - YES AND AMEN! I personally experienced this exact thing. There is a type of obedience to polity that is actually a ruse designed to muddy the waters to make it impossible for the dispute to be clear; And thus, the dispute cannot be resolved. At that point, the member is forced to either cut their loses, or just shut up and submit.

@-RM- 3 месяца назад

This is an excellent analysis by David and Joel. But have you guys considered how we might find the answers to our church polity questions through the lens of various Taylor Swift lyrics from her Eras Tour? 😆 No? OK. Maybe not.

@RightResponseMinistries 3 месяца назад

😂

@BenjaminKreis 3 месяца назад

I’ve experienced being a “bus boy for the Elders”. But I would describe it as being their Secretary or Executive Assistant. There were some things we(the Deacon board) could act on without consulting the Elders, but more often than not there were items that we could not act on without first asking them. For example, I remember our board discussing changing the church’s Wifi to publicly accessible to private for the use of the Elders, Deacons, and others doing official business for the church. And several Deacons balked at making that change without first asking the Elders. I forced the vote and it passed, but even then the head of the board said she was going to ask the Elders if what we had decided was okay with them.

@smokyquartz5817 2 месяца назад

Thank God I grew up in a small non-denominational church. If someone needs help you just help rhem, illness, surgeries, hunger, after a death, child caring in emergencies. This is not what church is. Also what's up with the cutaways to egomaniacal Darth Vader saying cold blooded things? Showing love is straight forward when Christ is in your heart..

@oldranger649 3 месяца назад

good stuff

@JMunyan1689 3 месяца назад

What are the Biblical arguments for head of household voting?

@chico5777 3 месяца назад

“He’s almost floating on air because his loafers are so light “ 😂

@providencefarmstead2122 3 месяца назад

Maybe I’ve missed where you have, but is there a reason why you do not have reformed baptists on to discuss covenant theology or ecclesiology or church polity?

@90-17woodworking 3 месяца назад

Rent is an issue. U should buy.

@hardboard82 3 месяца назад

Pastor Joel, my wife and I (baptists) are wrestling through nearly the same situation you described at 1:06:30 except the family member (who is a professing Christian and goes to another Christian church) agrees they are in sin and is unrepentant. They go to another church but they aren’t seeking to shine light on their ongoing sin in the midst of their surrounding church community, so it seems my wife and I are the only Christians who know enough about the family member’s sin to confront them (although it is indeed *public* sin). How does Matthew 18 apply in this situation? Do we contact the elders from the family member’s church? My pastor counseled that we essentially do nothing apart from praying and continuing to merely talk privately with the family member. Obviously our motivation isn’t to simply tattle on the family member or for us to be sin police, but we want to restore fellowship. Would you agree that there is nothing else we should do since the family member is a member of a different church? Are we stuck at the “stalemate” as you described at 1:07:22? If I’m understanding you rightly at 1:09:52, it unfortunately sounds like you think our baptist polity leaves us stuck where we’re currently at. Any response would be greatly appreciated to help us think through our potential next steps.

@olerain 3 месяца назад

1st Corinthians 5:11-13

@therecoverytabernacle 3 месяца назад

Great video

@nando7522 3 месяца назад

32:12 I'll have to look at our BCO again but I'm pretty sure TE's not being members of the church but of the Presbytery does not leave us members without recourse and make it so that the TE is not accountable. I am quite sure although I'll check again that that is not true at all.

@karensmiles7463 3 месяца назад

Can you teach on the Bronze Serpent,maybe ive missed it in your video list.

@timbushong4387 3 месяца назад

Doug Wilson once said that there are only two options: Let love cover over the sin, or follow Matt. 18 all the way over the cliff.

@aallen5256 3 месяца назад

Didn't Doug Wilson officiate the marriage of a pdf and then encourage that pdf to procreate? What happened to the pdf's child shouldn't surprise anyone

@nerychristian 3 месяца назад

@@aallen5256What's a PDF?

@aallen5256 3 месяца назад

@@nerychristian Roman Polanski, Steven Sitler, etc.

@chrismachin2166 3 месяца назад

Which part of the Federal Vision does it say that?

@garyboulton2302 3 месяца назад

@@aallen5256You believe that repentant pdfs shouldn’t marry and procreate?

@collinerb3802 3 месяца назад

What are your thoughts on a MacArthur style setup where it’s the elders doing everything and the congregation doesn’t get to vote on anything

@RightResponseMinistries 3 месяца назад

Not a fan of elder rule.

@collinerb3802 3 месяца назад

@@RightResponseMinistries what are the best resources to study this topic?

@theeternalsbeliever1779 3 месяца назад

Ancient Israel wasn't allowed to vote on which direction they went in the wilderness or who became priests. The 1st century church didn't vote on doctrinal matters or who was ordained into the ministry. God decided all of those things, and the _man_ he used enforced His will. God rules His Church through the leaders _He_ appoints. A church that doesn't have God's government is a church that isn't following God.